POKEMON - PLEASE VOTE

We messed up when we said no to this lol

Brian

Glad I picked up 12boxes of SM cosmic eclipse @95ea before they almost doubled in price 30days later. I would also be interested in Pokemon from Rudy @84.99 though.

Jakestaz

It was a good discussion, thank you for sharing your views.

Steffan Daus

I actually know plenty about it. Thanks for asking. As I said I played the game for YEARS since I was a child. The difference is we disagree on our assessments and disagree on the findinental nature of the assets which is fine. I simply choose to take a more conservative approach to asset valuation, and judge the asset against it's liquidation or "for parts" price, in hopes of avoiding losses as opposed to your more bullish valuation based on current market conditions. I believe that vintage WoTC era pokemon will always retain value due to demand and relatively slow supply. But I also believe that the same cannot be said of all pokemon product going forward. YES there exist iconic cards from every era, but I do not believe that those handful of iconic cards will justify the price of the post WoTC era boxes in the aggregate. It's ok to disagree. If your doing well with pokemon great!! I know it can be done. But as someone who has experience in both worlds, I firmly believe that newer MTG product is a better long term investment than newer Pokemon product. Evaluations of anything older comes down to due diligence

If that were true though, all the boxes not in rotation would be worth nothing. For the WOTC era stuff a base set box 1st edition is worth well over 10k. Commons in that same set are selling for over $100 if PSA graded 10, if they are 9s they are worth closer to 50. But let that sink in, $50 for a common. And it is only ramping up from there, anything WOTC era, if it is sealed, or it is graded at a high grade, it is worth a lot of money. But lets say that WOTC is an anomaly, how does the first EX generation of sets look? Well, secret rares in that era are worth close to a $1000 graded. Booster boxes in that era are worth around $5000. Move up to the Diamond and Pearly stuff, Boxes there are worth north of $1800, and this was the time where everyone considers Pokemon at the "Low point". Graded stuff in that era is still semi affordable at less than a 1000, but prices are moving and they ain't moving down. What about the recent stuff? I just watched an auction for a Gengar from a set released this year, sell for $28. It only cost 10 to grade that card. The card is a 1:3 holo foil card, it is not rare (TCG player = $.65). Can any modern Magic card of similar playability even hope to reach that price point? If Magic is your thing and you really believe in it, that is fantastic, keep doing what you love. But don't say something has no value if you really don't know much about it.

Steffan Daus

I actually joined solely in the hopes of buying Pokemon (0 interest in MTG), so definitely would buy. Already have position locked for Darkness Ablaze, but the special set that I believe releases in September and anything after, I'd be in!

I do not believe that my evaluation of boxes is flawed. A box is only worth what you can get from it. And as stated before the Magic creates an ecosystem where the cards contained within these boxes will appreciate naturally due to the forces of supply and demand, raw attrition of the card pool, and the fact that they are actively used gamepieces. Compare this to pokemon where the contents of a box has no value as a game piece, making it technically worthless in the eyes of its presumed target audience of the TCG playing collector/whal e from a utility perspective. That issue is compounded on by the fact that pokemon IS a diverse franchise that offers it's most devoted several ways to "collect"; further dilluting the interest in the asset class of "pokemon tcg boxes". This is why I assert they are not comperable. Both companies make game pieces. Pokemon only makes and supports it's newest game pieces and prices them for children. WoTC supports, in some capacity, all of its game pieces, and tends to price them for young adults. They are not analogous.

Approaching it from the standpoint that the boxes are only nostalgia driven is a little misleading though. Magic, Pokemon, Yu-gi-oh, and all others value are pretty much established based on the underlying IP. If Magic suddenly becomes unpopular then all the boxes would effectively go to 0. That statement is true for all collectibles not just card games, but so long as demand exists, then the value is there. But more to the point, Pokemon is the largest media franchise in the world. It has multiple generations of fans. If you look at the top 25 media franchises in the world, Magic is not even up there. Now granted that is because Magic is a card game and that is it really. But that diversification of media helps to solidify Pokemon as an ever present factor in people's minds. That is why I am confident that Pokemon will maintain its growth. Magic on the other hand is just a game really, sure there are collectors, but not as many as there are for Pokemon. Additionally, Magic will never have the exposure Pokemon does. I can walk to up to any person and there is a good chance that they know who Pikachu is, but how many people know who Chandra is? At the end of the day, all of these products long term value is based solely on the IP of the companies who produce these products. I say that is just as wise to hitch your wagon to something that has broad appeal (Pokemon) as it would be to do so to something that has less broad appeal but a more dedicated fan base (Magic).

Steffan Daus

Please Rudy 84.99 shipped for new Pokémon sets would be amazing! As a investor in Pokémon and magic I would love to buy both from you! Pokémon is only looking up!

No disrespect intended but didn't you just restate my assertion that the box values are more or less solely nostalgia driven? That was my entire criticism. MTG boxes have a substantial "floor" value (ev of opening) that does inherintly appreciate, driving the value of the box up, then has the nostalgia "multiplier" on top of it. Where the pokemon boxes ev are more or less 0 outside of generation spesific "mythics" (ex, gx, lvx, prime etc). Their entire market is predicated on nostalgia not the underlying value of the asset. That is why I feel they are not a secure long term investment like magic.

Would love to see Pokemon as an option! $84.99 is a great deal! Looking forward if you do it Rudy. I'm looking to both have sealed product and want to open some new stuff. From what I can see for prices of sealed product for Pokemon can vary like MTG - some will sets will age like Born of the Gods and Dragon's Maze (bleh and underwhelming), and others will age like Kaledash and Domanaria (Everything was great about them)- it's a gamble, but there is money to be made in the sealed products of new sets from Black and White forward (See Hidden Fates for positive sealed product growth, Forbidden Light for okay growth, and Crimson Invasion for dumpster fire Fallen Empires floppy taco levels).

The problem is though that the Box prices are rising across all eras (the recent 3 years excluded of course). The thing about Pokemon is that it is not driven by its playability, while Magic is. Pokemon is more driven by collectors. As time goes on, more and more collectors enter the hobby, pushing up demand for cards. It is true that the WOTC stuff is at the top of the mountain, but the early ex era stuff is really expensive, DP and Platinum are starting to push up there. HGSS was kind of small, and has to compete with the NEO era, but fans of that gen will slowly have to start migrating to it in lieu of Neo because of the price point. BW is still a little newer, but it does have its chase cards still. XY same thing really, but box prices are already over 3 times what they were at release. As box prices increase so too must the cards in it, not necessarily proportionally, but it it is happening.

Steffan Daus

I played pokemon for YEARS and there is no long term value to the product. You can't play with the cards after a few years and game gets power creeped to shit after a few years. At best your cracking packs for nostalgia in which case buy any WoTC era pokemon product nothing from TPCI, max nostalgia + low supply. What we are seeing is another pokemon black swan not rule that is magic. See the EV of any pokemon set pre X/Y or whenever the inception of the extended forms was. There is NOTHING propping up the cards value other than nostalgia. DO NOT DO IT!!!!!!

When Pokemon first came out, I bought some packs and sold the best cards on ebay. After awhile I had a lot of extras and made up some grab bags for the kids to sell in my computer shop. Soon I had kids and teens asking for specific cards, so I started buying more and put them in binders. I think I sold commons for 5 cents, uncommons for a quarter and low end rares for 75 cents. More expensive cards I sold for the low prices listed in the price guides. I have never seen such a best seller. Within a few months, I was able to pay cash for a new laptop and 3 months later bought my Mom a new dining room suite. This was base set, base 2, jungle and fossil! I still have a full set of cards from those 4 sets and about a third are first editions! I tried Yu- gioh, but never had much luck.

Michael Keith

I would personally buy pokemon if it was an additional offering and didnt count towards the 6 standard boxes we can buy monthly in the $15 tier.

I am not a big Pokemon fan. i won't buy any for me or investing. if you did offer it i might OCCASIONALLY buy a box for my nieces to share.

Mike Harkleroad

Please do the Elite Trainer Boxes as well.

Wear do you find them for that price? Local LGS or a website? Seems like a great price!

Im currently buying Pokemon boxes at $90 a box so, I'm in.

Joel Bolduc

I think you're a great guy Rudy, but at release I buy cases for $497. If you could match that I'd buy in a heartbeat. The margins are just so razor thin with only 10 cards per pack. If you decide to sell your bathroom stash I'd love a crack at some of that 😺. You're still the best just in case you needed it today my friend :)

Joseph Mckendry

Yeah Id buy booster boxes of pokemon

Cody Urdiales

I would love if you carried pokemon again, because I don't really trust anyone else to buy them from. Also, found out that my Unbroken Bonds are selling for $300 a box now???

I said no because I only play poke her mom

Same thoughts for me and my son!

Philip Aldrich

I won’t spend $100s or $1000s on Pokémon cards. I’ll buy a box here and there though for sure! My son and wife would love it.

Philip Aldrich

I'm choosing yes because my daughter is showing an interest in Pokemon TCG and I think this would help me nurture and hopefully introduce her to magic (laughing maniacally)

Eric

I'm in for the magic. I don't have a opinion either way. Probably won't buy pokemon. Depends on the deal

Only speaking for myself-- I would maybe get 1pkm + 5mtg boxes /mo. But in 4 years, I will likely flip to 5pkm + 1mtg. Only speaking for myself here.

DuGiOh

I voted no, but because I just don't care to buy anything right now.

I voted "Yes" but being honest I am struggling to keep up with all the Magic product and if I have to choose between which I am buying, I am buying Magic every time.

Patrick Carey

I'd probably try to pick up a box or two from each release. Definitely wouldn't be an every month thing though.

Looks like deroum presells new products for 69.99, not sure how though

I second this

BrewCrew75

I would buy maybe one box for my kids but not on a regular basis.

BrewCrew75

I only collect and buy MTG however if there's enough people that want Pokemon then I don't know why you wouldn't do it.

It's not a bad idea. I just don't care about pokemon.

I wouldn't risk it. Not enough bathrooms at your house (I'm guessing).

I can only speak for myself, I might dabble in it occasionally but it wouldn't be a monthly thing for me. Way too much MTG products to keep up with as is + reserve list on the side. If other patrons are down I say go for it. I gotta stay on budget though.

Hidden fates was released in August

i would love to expand, but magic is more than i can handle

sooo much magik😆😅😅😅

Please tell me where these boxes would be cheaper ? I haven't seen it and I collect both magic and Pokyermoms

Its not going to be much lower. Alot of distributors are at 80-85 a box.

I voted yes but I would much rather see and expanded magic offering. I truly appreciate what you do and your content but there is a ton of products at distributors that i am sure patrons would love to access through you at near distro prices. Me being one if them.

Like many others here I think you got your plate full “Ruby” and seeing as you don’t want to hire extra help because you’re paranoid and I don’t blame you lolz. I’d rather you ride out the remaining years you got left doing what makes make you happy and helping you achieve your goals. You don’t wanna be stuck 5 years down the road with crap you can’t sell and it messes up your goals. We know you don’t plan to do this forever so I’d rather you not rage quit early because something bad happens due to trying to please everyone.

Gold

I would definitely buy them. If you do stock any just be cautious that Sword and Shield base may have been over printed. They are releasing those packs as a buy one get one in august at retail stores.

I am not ever going to buy it, but I am not against you carrying it for other people who want access to it. I am impartial.

I don't have sealed product for hidden fates, my son (5 years old) enjoyed opening and sleeving all those cards. Our best pull is an espeon gx. Using the tcg player app we added them in months ago. back then his collection was around $150... it's over $362. I told him that, and he's like wow that's a lot of money. I asked him if he wanted me to put it on the market, to which he replied, "No, not yet. I want this to be $1000, I can wait". Not sure that will happen, but hell, maybe?

I am abstaining my vote too, @Rudy, if there was a 5th option to maybe offer limited edition products like hidden fates, then yes, but otherwise it would be too much product.

Yes and Rudy should be investing even if it is a small amount as it never hurts to diversify as you have always said!!! I spent 10K on Hidden fates at Market price the past 6 months and already have double the money I put in but holding off as I expect that set to be insane in 5+ years.

Violent Ken

I won't vote as not to pollute the stats, but I'm out of the US, so I can't buy it anyway.

vivas5

Hey Rudy, do you have any more playmats?

I am an avid pokemon collector, who got back into it over a year ago thanks to your channel reviving my fondness for TCGs, and have to say that from recent patterns, I think not going into this right now may be the wisest. I don't pretend to understand much about products being in bubbles or the definitions that come with it. I don't collect MTG since I could never afford it when I was young and poor and rarely even collected Pokemon itself. So MTG never grew on me as much as the rest of the nice people here. Pokemon's first base set Sword and Shield was overproduced with the lack of demand (thanks covid) that they started throwing it into 2-pack blisters sold at the retail price for a single Darkness Ablaze pack at one point. Basically a 2-pack for $4 or BOGO. I believe there are still some places ordering and offering said option still just so the TCG can get rid of its excess packs. The booster box Unbroken Bonds was printed in 2019 and now remains $250+ per box, if I remember right. Pokemon is constantly a-hit-or-miss as other boxes slowly creep up even with a Charizard in Burning Shadows where it's like $150+ after years of release. That said, I bought 12 boxes of Darkness Ablaze from other suppliers and plan to open half of those along with 40 of those BOGO packs. I wouldn't be buying the boxes for the upcoming booster boxes, no. But I may consider buying the a sealed 6 booster boxes after Darkness Ablaze depending on the card list, if I'm still around, and you decide to take the gamble. I feel you're already overworked with your youtube, this patreon, and your own interests. Having a once-in-a-while-foreign-box deals NOT MTG is very nice and definitely appreciative but I don't think it's great in the long run since you are the MTG guy. Like when it's Black Friday and you're buying Pokemon stuff. I'd definitely come back and keep an eye out on your listings.

Yeah I am with him!

If you offered Pokemon to your patrons, I would buy a box every single month!

84.99 isnt a “high” thats standard price. You will never see a pokemon box drop below $80 ever again

If you want them for yourself I dont see why you shouldn't. I doubt you will ever get them cheaper.

Personally I would not be interested at this time but a few years from now when my son is old enough to play if it was offered then I would probably buy a bit here and there. That being said since it would be so far off for me personally I said who cares for now as my vote.

You seem really busy as it is. I'm a business owner too and sometimes I forget that there are only 24 hours in a day. Don't forget about opportunity cost!

I would be very interested in the ability to order Pokemon boxes along with the MTG boxes during the month. However, at this time in 2020 there is too much magic in the pipeline to make room for Pokemon within my 6 box monthly ordering limits at the $15 tier so I had to vote for "there is so much magic product, I can't keep up". With that being said if the ordering slots were increased at no charge from say 6 mtg booster boxes AND 6 (or any number) Pokemon booster boxes per month then yes carry some Pokemon. With all of that being said, I still think right now Pokemon is a bubble and not worth buying into at the highs.

Keeping up with magic is hard enough. But if i could tag on a pokemon box once or twice a year i might do that.

John Moberly

Meh

Hey Rudy, I’m going to buy Magic, Pokémon and Yugioh anyways, I would rather get it from you!

I would like to pick up some boxes here and there for me and my daughter to rip.

I would buy some pokemon

I would buy Pokemon boxes!

Looking for thoughts. I wasn't able to get in on the first ikoria collectors boxers. Should I get a couple on the 18th when the release happens. (The box or boxes will mostly be opened and added to my collection.)

great timing. My nephew got into pokemon recently. I've been buying him cards and put together a collection for myself to use with him. Very excited for this

I don't really care. I'm still waiting for the Cardfight Vanguard sale. Also, UFS (Universus) and Transformers would be cool.

The more products offered to patrons the better IMO. As long as it doesnt increase the price of the MTG stock, I wont have any complaints. I already pick up a box or two of each new set to play with and would love to get em here rather than some rando online store.

Mike Radawiec

I will probably buy it for the kid, but have been drowning in so many MTG products :(

Prabal Singh

If people are into Pokemon, that's cool. But I'm not a player, I don't care what happens with Pokemon. I sold all my first edition stuff I had as a kid in the early 2000's when it wasn't worth anything. probably would be worth a lot now but eh what ever. So yeah there's too much MTG stuff as it is. I fit into that category pretty well. Hope you Pokemon folks have fun tho. You do you fam.

No Pokeman. I think MTG's new release every other week is enough.

Great for gifts and investments

Not interested in Pokemon. Still think of it as the game my little brother played. Hmm maybe I should tell him his cards are worth money now...

Christopher Walsh

Pokemon Shmokemon

Jim Volin

I'm not personally interested in Pokemon, but if there is a demand for it, it would be cool to see it available for the Patrons who are.

Maybe 'hate' is a strong word in this case. I simply have 0.00 interest in pokemon.

I'm not voting because I don't have enough money to keep up with everybody else. It's not that I can't keep up with the number of products, I just can't afford to buy. Also, I kind of hate pokemon and would prefer yugioh - but that's another story.

yes for when there's no magic to buy. i pretty much only buy EDH, Collector sets i can affored and pokemon

kadinshino

Hey rudy, I have been watching your videos for almost 3 years and I became a patreon right before you decided to close it down. I am not sure how much you consideration my input will have but I do not really buy magic product. I have been running an online pokemon business for almost 2 years and have used your approach to magic, in a very similar manner to pokemon with a lot of success. I would 100% buy pokemon products from you if you sold them. It would allow me to support you in more ways than just the monthly patreon as well as it would let me get some great products from a trusted source

Nathan K Painter

I didn't want to sound rude in my vote("who cares anyway") but there is a lot of magic content.

samuel caldwell

I buy depending on the Pokemon set

I’d much rather buy Pokémon than Magic. I buy magic to sell singles as a side hustle. I would buy Pokémon from you for collecting and actually playing. Please do Pokémon!

I'm sure there is money in Pokeyourmom but it just isn't for me.

Scott Pysher

Canadian patron here, would you be able to ship the product sealed to Canada? What would shipping look like? I know you have to open for mtg...

You can't keep Magic stocked enough for all of us, so Pokemon gives us another option.

Pokemon has spiked over the past year, even the sealed product. Team Up boxes are now going for $250 last time I checked TCG player and that set was released late 2018/early 2019. I do think the more recent Sword/Shield sets have seen low value cards but I think the upcoming sets will ramp up in card value especially if a special charizard is involved. Plus if they have another holiday set similar to hidden fates there could be big money in that as well

I would love to buy some new darkness ablaze cases!

Brandon

Adding to others’ comments here to say that I’m simply just not interested in buying Pokémon boxes.

Brendan Howell

I will buy pokemon boxes every month, please please please put pokemon boxes up for sale... PLEASE!!!

Steve P

Also would say it depends on the sets. Good to keep an eye on the upcoming sets. Almost everything with a Charizard secret rare in it has skyrocketed in value. Every set in between those hasn’t gone up much at all in price. People want their Charizard!

I am not going to vote because I am more of a Magic player than a Pokemon player, I won't buy boxes. There isn't really an option that most aligns with "not interested in pokemon," maybe C but that seems more for someone who plays both games.

it would be cool if you offered pokemon but there is just so many products coming out these days cant keep up.

I want to vote yes, but I don't buy often enough to justify you going out of your way to carry the product. But I would probably buy a box this year

Extremely interested! Especially in the upcoming set due to having Charizard cards in it. I would love to buy both Magic & Pokemon sealed products from you! Also hello! I am a new patron & fan of your channel. :)

w00t Pokemon! 😉

Jakestaz

I personally wouldn't purchase any, but others may want to.

I would be in for 1 box each release to crack. I have 2 boys that collect.

Rover Boy

Is Pokemon for US Residents only?

SJ

I'm most interested in Magic, but depending on the set and what is in it, I would buy Pokemon as well. They put out some cool stuff sometimes, and unlike Magic which is a more recent discovery for me, Pokemon has that nostalgia factor from the late 90's, early 2000's for me

I'm only interested in Magic and investment advice from your mom's basement. But polls are fun so thanks for asking us.

Joseph Day

I'm not interested myself. But if people are, why not. The more the merrier

No interest myself

Brandon Nolte

Eh. I have young children still slowly getting into magic. Pokerman they already get, so I'd be down to buy boxes just to crack and play. 85 bucks is much better than the 110 I can get them for locally, when I can that is.

Honestly, more options is great! But if the market for it isnt there... dont take the risk Rudy man. I'm too buried in Moogic the Goothering and cost of life for anything else at the moment.

I've bought pokemon from you in the past, but haven't purchased much these past few months due to getting ready to move. I voted there is too much magic product and wouldn't buy pokemon.

tacos and magic cards, no room for anything else in the portfolio

Sorry Rudy too much moogic to time to Poke Your Mom. Tell her we are sorry.

If this cuts into any of your magic product distribution, I want nothing to do with it.

I don't think Pokemon is in a bubble. I just don't like the game, so I would never want to do research on it.

Gojira

I'm all for it! Though I would also want Ikoria too.

Love Pokemon and I hate how I have to pay 100$ a box at LGS

Jack Massett

Chose "too much magic product...", however if there was an option "not interested in Pok-in-yourmom cards" I woulda have chosen that one.

James Daley

Please do this for us Rudy would be highly appreciated

Rudy don't do it. Im liquidating my singles that aren't from vintage wizards sets because they take too long to recover their value.

I would buy these boxes for sure.

Andrew Stone

I love pokemon tcg since there was a gameboy videogame, but magic is releasing like crazy even for a regular player (not investing on it) looks like a lot to me!

Yoyigo Tintor

I'd be interested in pokemon variety packs every couple of months rather than individual boxes

Although we would jump fast on vintage vintage. Cosmic eclipse, Unified minds, unbroken bonds would be great too, I'd buy the crap out of these sets as well.

I agree with above. Doesn't even have to be vintage vintage

Not only new release but let us buy some of the batbroom too lol.

Rudy, I love Pokemon and would like to have the option to buy it, and voted as such. However, I don't see myself buying it every time it's available from Rudy as the newer Pokemon stuff tends to be hit or miss. I would love it if he was able to supply some older or vintage stuff i'd snap that up. Keep your ears open man, I feel like a lot of the patrons probably feel this way as well.

Eric Tracy-Cohen

I said yes, but with the amount of new magic product coming and if Rudy still plans to offer more Force of Will in the future, I can’t see myself buying much Pokémon.

Insert “I love democracy meme” here.

Would love some Pokemon sir. Make more Pokemon bathroom vids for each release :)

Joey Santiago

Not enough time for another card game hobby...

How many times has the Pokemon card game took off and then crashed now? Three? Four? Never getting burned on that again, I don't care how much money is in it right now.

I don't know or understand the Pokémon game/market, so no. I'm not interested at the moment.

Would be in for monthly Pokemon!

If they were available, I might pick up a couple boxes a year at best, I'm just fine with them not being available though.

Bryan Vukich

My son plays would like to get boxes for him for sure

No interest in Pokémon myself. But if you're willing to do the extra lifting Rudy, more power to those that would like to get some. Appreciate the offer and voting.

Eric Ayers

Pokeymans doesn't interest me. If the one buddy I know that's into it wanted a box that's the only reason I'd ever pick any up.

I do like Pokemon for my kids but to be honest its a purchase I make maybe once a year, so I know for me personally it will not make a big difference in you carrying it, and if that means you can focus more on Magic, even better.

James Namsupak

I don't think it's bad product, I'm also thankful for what you do Rudy, keep that floppy taco building that Phyrexian Tower. MTG is the thing I collect, I do enjoy watching openings of vintage Pokemon however.

Yes, definitely interested👍

MTG Unpacked

$85 huh...if it were even a couple bucks lower, I bet a few more folks would buy. I would, for one

🇨🇦?

Jason Lieberman

I voted who cares but honestly Rudy, if patrons want it, go for it. I only buy magic.

I am not interested in Pokemon, but my son is. I might a box sometime in the future for him.

Garrick Brooks

I'd order a box or two each set for my vending machine.

Joel Draper

Need more shiny cardboard 😎

Love the options for this poll lol

Both my kids would be jazzed about Pokemon boosters.

Obviously only speaking for myself. I'm very comfortable financially (no debt other than mortgage). That being said I do have a family of 7 to provide for so one paper TCG at a time for which incidentally is magic. Would love to do Pokemon as well. It has such a high demand and return in a lot of cases. Would definitely participate if I could.

Lol Jumpstart, Zendikar, etc. Life! Can’t be having Ass Ketchum all over the place now too <3 But man, mint Southern Islands :]

Brian

84.99 isn't a bad price especially after set releases. They usually inflate up to 95-100 bucks a month after it releases.

Wow Rudy is so teach savvy ! #TearyEyes

“No interest in Pokémon” should be an option

I chose no but not for that reason. I'm just not into Pokemon tcg. Would not care if you did or did not.

I wouldn’t buy it, but if people want Pokémon, I don’t have any problem against it

Kevin Hamilton

Yes I would like but I am barely keeping up with the magic sets.

No interest in Pokemon personally.

My wife and son love Pokémon. I love magic. Would love to get both from you Rudy.

Philip Aldrich