XaiJu
fluffkevlar
fluffkevlar

patreon


Changes/Improvements to Request Streams

So, I need to change and update how I do the request streams a little bit, mostly for my own sanity, but also for clarity on how I pick things. At the moment, picking stuff is done like this:


1: roll  random number gen 1-whatever number of requests (about 100) i call the "normal pool" of submissions

2: read that pick, sort it by one of a few things: is it an OC of mine, is it a furry r34/fanart pic, or is it a non-furry r34/fanart pic? These are the main categories I sort the picks into.

3: once I have picked 4 for each category (i just keep rolling random numbers until I get enough), i pick 2 of the categories to be the 'stream vote' polls, usually based on what i feel up for drawing that day.

4: the "my pick" 2 drawings are chosen similarly. i either pick 2 from the un-used 3rd category from above, or scan the list manually for something that pops out at me like "yeah that sounds really cool, i want to try that today!"

5: i keep a record of who's already won a drawing. after picked, i delete it from the list and pick from those who haven't yet...up to a point (see below)

6: if a particular idea has lost a vote several times in a row, i will often pick it manually for the "my pick" so don't be discouraged if that happens. 

7: if an idea is something i won't do, don't feel excited or up for, I'll remove it and message the person to resubmit another if they want. these ideas should be good for a number of people to enjoy, and if it's too obscure, difficult, odd or just not my thing, I don't think I'll enjoy working on it, and it likely won't turn out very good.


That's it in a nutshell. There's a few problems with this though particularly number 5; if new people join and keep adding to the list, as well as old patrons leaving before they're picked, but still have an idea on there, constantly updating the list manually is very time consuming. If new ideas keep getting added, then it starts to get more unfair for those before them, suddenly having the possibility of waiting longer. 

So for this reason I think I'll start to "weigh" requests by person. If someone has their request picked, it gets removed, and i write it down elsewhere to keep track. using colour-coding on the spreadsheet cells, I'll assign a month a colour. like if Patron A gets their request drawn in December, and December is blue, the next time i see them submit an idea, I'll mark the cell "blue" so i know how long it's been since they've gotten one. 


After a while(not specific.. usually 8-10months? for most patrons, half that for $25), I'll remove the cell colour, putting them back in the normal pool. It doesn't mean i won't pick from them until then, for example, if there aren't enough good requests, or enough to fill a category from the normal pool, then I'll go roll through the coloured pools, from oldest to newest, until i find some approrpriate requests. With 100+ requests, and me doing 8 or so per month, that would take a good year and half or more to get through -everyone- if i did it strictly "only pick un-drawn ideas until everyone's gotten one, then restart", so, sorry if it seems forever since your request was picked, but try and remember that there are a lot of other submissions, and hopefully, a lot of them are images that others want to see, too! group effort, group-enjoyed submissions kind of goal.


Whew. So as far as I can see, THERE IS NO 100% RULE-BOUND "FAIR" way to do this, I think this is the closest I can get. I'm sorry! I'm trying my best. Mixing random picks, and personal picks to mitigate "crowd-pleasing" requests being the only ones voted for, and not turning it into a raffle. The only other way is to throw ALL of this 'picking/voting' stuff out the window and I just pick manually myself each and every one, only what I like, with no cooldowns for anyone, and run the risk of it taking a very long time for someone to get their idea.


SO!

What I want to change about it:

1: Make the results view-able by everyone. With Google Forms I can make a view-only link. This way people can see others' requests, see who was picked when, and so on. I can't really think of a good reason why anyone would be against this..? but if you are, comment below and let me know. The plus side to this is other requests may give you an idea, but also...

2: You can second someone else's request. If you choose to 'second' another's idea, there will be a spot in the form for that. If the idea is picked, it will count for both people's request, however, the chances of me going with it go way up with the more people that pick it. 

3: Right now I do 4 per stream, I'd like to go back to 5 if I can, but I think to do that, I'll have to save time and energy by doing the sketches for 5 picks first, and then polling the stream to see which they want me to colour. Colouring is much less intensive on my hand and saving that for last is probably best, and even if i only end up colouring 3 or 4, at least I have 5 things drawn! That, or, like my friend Tom does, save the colouring for another separate stream.


Thanks for reading all of this, let me know what you think; I should be making the new form soon, after I hear from you guys about what specifics or suggestions you might have.

Comments

Yeah, I dont think i'll go with the vote-to-colour, but may keep the saving colour to the end of the streams.

FluffKevlar

No, the sheet only displays what information was entered by the end users, not any of their account info.

FluffKevlar

Yeah it's a point to consider. Still weighing the ins and outs. On one hand it'd be neat to see the ideas, but on the other, piling in and making it less personal kind of just makes it feel more like the pinup vote all over, so I may not go with #2 to keep it more personal.

FluffKevlar

I'm guessing you'll be doing a stream today correct? Also this seems fair as it gives others a chance to see their request done.

SCPilot

I like the idea of colouring at the end or even later. Also viewable requests and seconding idea is awesome, but please make it like a list or something so we dont have to manually check every link etc.

Spyro_Haze

What information will be displayed in the document? Will there be any usernames attached to the submissions? There's the username we input, but there's also the Google account we submit from, if logged in when submitting. This could reveal actual peoples names, which I would be against. Would that information be displayed in any way?

TouchFluffyTail

If these changes help you Fluff, then I'm not against it! Whatever makes you comfortable. Although I do like the idea of being able to second someone's request, seems like a nice idea, I, mostly, never really know what to submit in the form, so the ability to second someone's request seems like an amazing feature! What I'm not sure about is if the 'coloring' phase would be a stream, or if it would be something you do off-stream? Idea #1 also seems like a nice idea, since 90% of the time I forget what I submit xD

iceFox

I agree with what you're saying here. Personally I prefer more sketches over sketches with colour, I like watching ideas come to life the most. I might be in a minority here though. #2 cooouuuld be potentially be problematic? Just that I could see 2-3 ideas being "seconded" by 10+ people each and the sketch being flooded with names. Dunno if you'd even consider that an issue though.

unsteddy

I love the idea of seeing other peoples ideas and being able to second them, this would make popular ideas more able to be picked, but when picked take out a huge section of ideas meaning there is more chance for other ideas to be picked as the more popular ones are gone, not to mention that those that arent picked in the votes sound like they will have a greater chance of being in the votes the next time around. On a side note maybe have a threshold for the seconds, like if an idea has a large amount of people seconding it put it up as an option for the next pinup?

Habilon

yeah it sends me duplicates and i just delete the older one. but the date doesnt affect the pick, i pick it more based on person

FluffKevlar

well the #2 point being "bandwagon popular things" is kind of the point. if more people want to see it, then doesn't it deserved to get drawn? just like the pinup and stuff, trying to make artwork that pleases a good amount of people. i may do #3 but just with 4 images then. like, sketch the 4, then go back and start colouring in order.

FluffKevlar

As long as it makes things easier for you. As for the colouring, I'm honestly a little surprised you colour them all. Used to be you reserved that for pictures you really liked and wanted to colour. I think that letting people vote on which pic gets coloured might be a tad unfair, as certain pics each stream are going to be subjected to the same issue you ran into when putting your own OCs with other, lesser known/popular characters in the poll. Although, having one's sketch coloured seems less... important? than actually having it drawn, I still think it falls into that same old problem of 'certain pictures are just gunna steam-roll the rest in votes'. That being said, I'd say either colour the sketches off-camera/in another stream, or choose which ones you want to colour yourself.

Silvador

It is a little confusing, yeah.

FluffKevlar

That's fine too! Thanks!

FluffKevlar

Because it's not a raffle. things are chosen by vote or by me picking. Higher chances aren't sold. I would say "nonexistant" is pretty false, I don't think you read the post entirely. I go through the un-picked people with higher priority before those who have had one. it's hard to please everyone and get through it all, but that's why these aren't the mainstay of this Patreon and just a nice extra

FluffKevlar

I'm down with the suggested changes, especially being able to second someone's request as I've seen people submit some pretty cool ideas or characters I hadn't thought of. As for pushing for 5 drawings per stream I'm a-ok with leaving some as sketches. Just don't push yourself too hard, I'd rather you not hurt your hand ^_^;

Murphyslaw

Seems a little confusing, but whatever works for you. I'm not complaining. It's probably a better system than I could come up with and if it helps your flow in the long run then it sounds good.

Evangellos

I am never on when the streams occur, so I never worry about it. I just want to suport the art that I like.

MiddKnight

At this point I don't bother with Request Streams. Chances of winning are nonexistent. How come this lottery is allowed on Patreon?

Kelanich Santovedis

For #1, personally I wouldn't really want everyone to be able to ready the exact details of how I describe my ideas. Some ideas require more exact posing or description, which is fine when you're communicating one-on-one with the artist, but I wouldn't be comfortable just publicly posting it. That's just me. #2 obviously requires #1 to be in effect though. I don't really care for the idea myself, as it makes it a little easier for people to bandwagon extremely popular things. I would prefer it be kept at the individual level. And on #3, I would rather see four colored than five with some staying sketches. The colors add a ton of life and vibrancy, and help distinguish some characters that can be hard to identify without them, or who have unique patterns/colors as part of their visual identity. That said, your health is more important, so structuring the streams in such a way as to reduce your wrist strain is a good idea. Do what's best for you. Also, I still don't really like that some of them are voted on in-stream. If you're keeping better track of when someone was last picked to cycle through the list better, I don't think it's super necessary. If you simply can't decide between a few ideas and let the viewers be the "tie-breaker", that's one thing. But I still feel like just having a popularity vote on peoples' personal requests is kind of counter to the basic premise. You addressed coming up with a "solution" to people's ideas losing these votes multiple times in a row, but I would pose the argument that if it needs a solution, maybe it shouldn't be a thing in the first place. Aside from that, I like the idea of you organizing this more formally on your end to keep better track of things and streamline it a little. The end result should be some fun ideas getting brought to life, so reducing the hassle and headache to get to that point is good.

Volpethrope

I like any ideas that make things easier and fairer to you Fluff!

Iselwyr

Seems fair. However i have a question concerning the google form, i know the request remains if we do not resubmit each month however i took the habit to do so to be sure. Usually if i click on a google form that i have already filled, i get the option to modify my answer. Since i am not getting that option i prefer to resubmit, my questions are: does it send you a duplicate? and does the submission date influence in any way your picks? Like do you prefer to pick the oldest suggestions? And do the resubmitted ones count as new requests? are they put in the same category of requests by people having theirs recently picked? Sorry if it's a little confusing.

Synariel


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