Doctor Who Series - Vincent and the doctor
Added 2023-01-14 15:00:03 +0000 UTCEmotions, emotions, emotions.....
Comments
True 100% agreed :)
Nicologik
2023-01-18 10:27:30 +0000 UTCI understand why people do consider this to be a great story :)
Nicologik
2023-01-18 10:27:16 +0000 UTCI really loved that quote, when the doctor said it. Thank you for reminding me of it :) Thank you for explaining your take on this story. :) I like how people seem to have different opinions about the monster. Even in this comment section. Some people don´t give the monster any meaning, and some make it really important because for them, it´s the impersonation of the main topic of the episode. That´s why I love reading all of your comments. It´s something very special to me :) I loved the scenes in the beginning as well. The pure joy on their faces, as soon as they meet Van Gogh, is everything to me. :) It´s the feeling that I imagine it would feel like to travel with the doctor, if I really got the chance to do that. For some reason I always supress all the bad things that have happened in the show so far, and could also happen to me. But in my world travelling with the doctor would just be great. Maybe I´m a little naiv when it comes to dreaming about travelling with the doctor :D :D Hmmm, you made me think.... I didn´t really pick up on the fact that those posters burnt, when the TARDIS was travelling, and what Captain Jack must have felt....Interesting...... WOW $80-150m ... That would be sooooo many beverages :D :D :D
Nicologik
2023-01-18 10:26:44 +0000 UTCI don´t know if the episode would have been equaly impactful, but I like to think that it would have. And I can explain to you why. I kept asking myself this question a lot, with any of my favorite shows. "if this or that main character would have been played by another actor/actress, would it be equaly as good?" And I think Dr. Who is THE show, to give us (or at least me) the answer. And it is "yes". The doctor is my favorite character in the show, and before I knew the actors would change, I didn´t even think the show could work equally as well without Christopher. I couldn´t imagine another actor playing that very character, and it would still be a great doctor. Eversince that happened, I think I finally have an answer to this question :) Thank you for your thoughts about this episode. And I´m very sorry you had to experience what depression means. I know how it feels like, and I wish it wouldn´t exist in reality. Only in shows and movies. But I do really appreaciate if this illness is portrayed on the screen. For me it´s very cathartic to watch them. And I now do have another one to add to my list. :)
Nicologik
2023-01-18 10:13:30 +0000 UTCReading your comment is interesting, since you have the same take on the monster that I had while watching the episode. I have also read your reply to Jade´s comment, and know that you have learned about the special meaning of the monster together with me. That´s what makes your comment special in a way. Because I now have the perspective of someone who knew and someone who didn´t know. Two different angles on one topic. I just love this comment section so much :) Thank you for explaining the Classic stories and I agree 100%. I would have loved to see episodes without any alien monsters. I think the closest one to that, was the episode "midnight". Which I enjoyed so much while watching. Because it was so different. In a world like the Dr. Who one, in which literally anything could happen, it would be such an interesting take. I also remember the Torchwood episode in the first season. The one in the woods, with the murder family. No aliens, just humans. That episode hit so much harder, because of that fact. Or the one with the super big "monster" (which was alien), but the humans were the real monsters, cutting the poor beeing into pieces while it´s still alive. Those episodes got stuck in my had. They had such a big impact. But then again, maybe the dark side of humanity is too dark for a show like Dr. Who. Because it is too real. Back then (I can only relate to one Classic story) the "Black orchid" story had human evilness in it, but it was (because of the time it filmed in) portrayed in a very "light" way. I remember pointing out the fact, how they tried to avoid showing explicit violence. It worked, because that´s how things were usually filmed back then. But nowadays this would be taken too comedic by the audience, to be serious. And if it was portrayed in a more serious way, like in Torchwood, it would be way too brutal and dark for a show like Dr. Who. An imaginery alien beeing evil is way easier to cope with, than a human beeing doing the same. I guess that´s a reason why they don´t do this anymore. At least that´s my take on it. I think if I had watched that episode with somebody else, it wouldn´t have affected me the way it did, either. I think this one is just meant to be watched either alone, or with other Whovians who get the meaning of the episode and take it seriously.
Nicologik
2023-01-18 10:01:41 +0000 UTCThank you for clarifying the meaning of the monster. It makes sense, and changes my view of it completely. I kinda wish I knew this before going into the episode. Or at least pick up on it while watching. Because it makes so much more sense now. There is still one question on my mind though, that I´m going to put on Discord, to discuss it :) Maybe you would like to reply over there :) I´m sorry to hear, you have suffered from depression for such a long time. I know what that means, and I sincerely hope you will get better in the future. I am batteling this fight myself for more than 10 years, and I know what you mean by saying one little reason can pull you back down this route, even though you already feel better. In fact, I am writing a book about my journey with this illness. Unfortunately it´s in German only. But it helped me a lot to cope with what I was/am experiencing. That´s one great advise that I got a few years ago, to write about what I feel, in order to be able to let the feeling go. It helped me a lot. :) I feel that this is one of those episodes, that you have to watch for more than one times. Especially with the knowledge that I do have after reading all of your comments. I think the episode will feel even more emotional than the first time. Maybe I´m going to record a rewatch one day. :)
Nicologik
2023-01-18 09:40:00 +0000 UTCYou're not alone in your critique. This episode is not one I often watch. It's very sincere - but I feel the ending is too 'Richard Curtis',replete with his ubiquitous use of a pop song,just in case the viewer still hasn't got the point.
Ian Smith
2023-01-15 16:08:21 +0000 UTCIt both celebrates the artist but also does not shy away from lightly exploring his known mental health difficulties, which the monster is a metaphor of.
Richard Austen
2023-01-15 00:47:48 +0000 UTCAs others have said fans consider this one of the best stories ever because of its very beautiful abd sensitive portrayals of Van Gough and his depression. British journalists as well consider this a classic top Doctor Who story.
Richard Austen
2023-01-15 00:46:35 +0000 UTC"Is this how time normally passes - really slowly, in the right order?", The Doctor, "Vincent and the Doctor" For me, this is the best episode in the season so far - by a long way. The story isn't about a monster of the week - we don't need a strong monster story here at all. Actually, I've read that the writer's original story idea didn't have a monster at all. But the monster plot provides some scaffolding to build the real story around. The Krafayis give us the excuse to visit Vincent in the first place and then we have a small adventure chasing it and it's very sad when it dies and we realise that it was blind and was misunderstood. But the real story is the visit with Vincent and learning about his life and pain which sets up the emotional final scenes. I love how Amy and the Doctor get so excited when they find Vincent. We've seen this a few times (like when the Doctor and Rose discover a werewolf etc.) and it shows how much fun it could be to travel with the Doctor. When the gadget images the Doctor it shows him a view of earlier Doctors - a nice squee moment for the Classic Who fans. And I like that it misidentifies the Krafayis as a parrot and a polar bear - which is pretty close to what it actually is. I really liked that the production tried to recreate the famous paintings - they did do a very nice job with the cafe. And was the picture painted from too close to the church? Yes, I aways thought so too - but it could be the camera lens they used or something. It's funny that someone pasted the TARDIS with advertising posters. And then it's interesting that they burned off the outside of the TARDIS when the TARDIS travelled - that's new. What did Captain Jack feel was happening in "Utopia"? Bill Nighy (Shaun of the Dead) is not listed in the credits. van Gogh's self-portrait with the straw hat is valued at between $80m and $150m. The painting used in the show was not a copy of the actual picture - it was made to look like the actor playing Vincent. A very subtle point - when the Doctor is showing Vincent the TARDIS console, there's a device with a Magpie Electricals label (referencing "The Idiot's Lantern"). So what happened to the picture that Vincent painted with white paint in order to sketch the monster? That seems to have ended up in the TARDIS - the Doctor tossed it away when it didn't identify the monster from Vincent's sketch. "This is the problem with Impressionists - not accurate enough. This would never happen with Gainsborough of one of the proper painters.", The Doctor, "Vincent and the Doctor"
Andrew Vignaux
2023-01-14 22:46:35 +0000 UTCRTD offered Bill Nighy (the expert in the museum) the role of the Doctor in 2003 when he was starting to plan the show's revival. Nighy turned him down. I wonder if the 2005 series would've been as successful with a different actor in the title role, and perhaps also a different companion? I like this episode, but I'm not entirely sure about it. It does have some weaker elements, such as the CGI in a couple of places, and I feel the music is really overdone at the end when they go to the museum. But the main thing I'm not sure about is how it handles mental illness. I say that as someone who's been cursed with clinical depression over the course of many years. That being said, I'm grateful the Doctor doesn't magically cure van Gogh, even temporarily, or offer him or Amy false hope about it; and I've grown to love the subtle truth of what he said about a pile of good things and a pile of bad things. Some of the visual imagery is great, too, and I love the imaginative way the scene was done when they were staring up at the night sky. My personal rating is a 4 out of 5. Perhaps one day I'll find myself appreciating this episode as strongly as others do, and will rate it higher. But it's still a very good episode in my book.
Andrew Gwilliam
2023-01-14 18:14:25 +0000 UTCThat's interesting about the invisible monster as metaphor for depression. That does make a lot of sense but I hadn't thought of it that way before. As you can see from my comment below. Which I was still writing when your comment appeared.
Stephen Males
2023-01-14 17:39:14 +0000 UTCI think you are right to suggest that it is the story of Van Gogh, especially the very emotional visit to the art gallery at the end which made so many people rate it so highly. The monster part is quite forgettable and I think many people did, in fact, forget it and just remembered the ending. In a way I wouldn't want the monster to overshadow the story about Vincent's troubled life and the way he saw the world differently to other people. Although, for me it would have been better if the scriptwriters had taken a bolder step and had the whole episode with was no alien at all. The hostility of the local villagers could have made just as much of a dilemma for The Doctor and Amy to try to solve. Back in the nineteen sixties, when Doctor Who started, the stories were divided between the ones set in the future or on other planets (or both) and purely historical ones. The earthly historical stories were only sci fi in the sense that the travellers got there in a time machine and there were no alien monsters. I sometimes wonder if it would be a good thing if they still sometimes had stories like that. Perhaps a modern audience just wouldn't accept them. I first watched this episode at somebody else's house and they dismissed the whole thing in quite a cynical way because they didn't want this kind of emotional heart-tugging from Doctor Who. And although I didn't dismiss the story, I don't remember being as affected by the ending as I was when I watched it a second time at home. That time I got quite tearful at the end. And I have done ever since. Maybe I was just too embarrassed to allow it to affect me in front of somebody else who wasn't really enjoying it. The actor who played Dr Black, the man in the art gallery, was Bill Nighy who I have read is genuinely a big fan of Van Gogh and his art.
Stephen Males
2023-01-14 17:27:23 +0000 UTCThis episode is widely considered one of the best of the show. The thing with the monster is that is is metaphoric. The invisible monster is a metaphor for depression (the invisible illness) As you say the episode is very emotional and it takes the subject of depression very seriously, not even the Doctor can fix it in the end. And like we saw in the episode it is something that can come and go suddenly and strike even when things are going great. Having suffered myself from depression for twenty years I know how it feels and as good as my life is at the moment there is always in the back of my mind that one day I could get an mood hit so bad that I also go down that route. This episode was written by Richard Curtis, famous for big films such as Four weddings and a funeral, Bridget Jones, Love Actually as well as TV shows Mr Bean, Blackadder & Vicar of Dibley, all big hits. The main reason he wrote this episode was because his older sister, who also loved Van Gogh, took her own life. For me this episode is a 10/10 and is in my top 20 at number 19, although its not one I'll watch repeatedly because of the emotions attached. I also tear up for those end scenes.
Jade Ellis
2023-01-14 17:19:30 +0000 UTC
