Season 3, Ep 16
Added 2022-02-15 17:11:17 +0000 UTChey hey happy tuesday! the same day i always upload... every single time.
i never thought i'd get to see vampire willow again and lets just say, im not mad about it. š
Comments
LMAO sorry!! i dont even know if you could tell on camera it was twitching but gosh it was SO annoying!! putting on my glasses seemed to help but it did take a bit for it to stop haha
darciesnothere
2022-02-24 20:04:45 +0000 UTCWe've seen several examples of vampires carrying over *some* traits from their human lives. Not just Jesse, already mentioned, but even bit players like the not-really-the-annointed-one, who was still a deranged religious nut after rising as a vampire. And Angelus made Dru insane *before* turning her, yet she's still insane afterwards. And in the wishverse, vamp Willow and Xander are an item, but why would they be if they retained none of their human traits/desires/memories? So I think Angel isn't saying that vampires are exactly like their former selves, but they are not automatically completely different either.
David Meadows
2022-02-21 22:05:36 +0000 UTCThe longterm issue is that the episode feels discontinuous., even though it not only works the ongoing Willow-Buffy-Faith "triangle" plot, but provides a definitive answer to "would Buffy have killed Allan, too?" You caught that, right? At the start of the episode, we see Buffy intensely focused on training, because she wants to be better than Faith, because she worries that "different circumstances, that could be me". And after that, we see Wesley say that, despite Faith's formidable skills, she's still "a little sloppy". And what's our climax? Not only is Buffy able to hear Willow calling for help despite the Bronze being total chaos ( <3 ), but she hears Willow's "Buffy, no!" in time to stop herself from slaying VampWillow. As opposed to Faith not hearing Buffy's "Faith, no!" in "Bad Girls"ā¦or not caring. WILLOW: Nice reflexes. BUFFY: Well, I work out. And that's why Buffy ā Faith, in six simple words. So why do I say the episode feels discontinuous? Next post for that. [/tease]
Jessica Roth
2022-02-20 03:50:07 +0000 UTCOkay, so the major problem is that Cordelia so quickly dismisses Willow's "death". A character regression for the sake of a cheap joke, and all the more disappointing because it was Joss himself who wrote the beautiful scenes of Cordy being emotional at the comatose Willow's bed in "Becoming, part 2", including the one where she blames herself for "runningā¦through three counties" , even though that was at Xander's order, and she couldn't have done anything anyway. It's been a lovely growth-arc for CC, going from the mean girl to having a good relationship with the girl she used to pick on. Even the worst episodes this season showed this positively, from CC seeking out Willow for her opinion (!) in "Anne" to tenderly caring for Will after she faints in "Beauty and the Beasts". (And then promptly vanishing for the rest of the episode, but that's one of the reasons it's a lousy ep.) Obviously, the Xillow affair and Cordelia's injury severely damaged that friendship (although in "The Wish" Cordy seems to blame Xander and Buffy moreā¦), but it's clear that Cordelia still cares what Willow thinks, wants Willow to understand how hurt she was. Why else would she want to have an "Ethics of Boyfriend-Stealing" chat, instead of simply turning and leaving "Willow" in the cage? (Aside from Cordy being "a great humanitarian", I mean.) After all, she had so much to say that (as someone more observant noted), she not only got herself a chair but she took the time to MAKE COFFEE (and even snagged one of Giles's mugs, lol.) But what do we get? "Willow. They got Willow. So what are you doing for dinner tonight?" Shame on you, Joss. Shame, shame.
Jessica Roth
2022-02-20 03:40:20 +0000 UTCYes, it's not so much that vampires have the traits of the humans they once were so much as their personalities are shaped by their memories of the humans they once were. One could speculate, for example, that Angelus worked so hard at being a monster out of some deep-seated desire to distance himself from who he was as a human. ("His profile... he's likely to strike out at the things that made him the most human", as Giles says in "Innocence".) There are some other great examples but they'd verge into spoiler territory, so I forbear. @Jessica re: Buffy/Willow... a couple of episodes ago, I would have said that Buffy has a *type* and, for better or worse, Faith fits it better than Willow does (dark, lots of leather, ambiguous morality). But actually, now that she's met Vampire Willow... maybe that's not so true anymore :D (I was tempted to reply something similar on "Bad Girls"/"Consequences", but since we hadn't gotten to "Doppelgangland" yet I couldn't add that "but" section so I held off haha)
ghostofdurruti
2022-02-19 00:18:05 +0000 UTCI agree: it's complicated. In fact, I'd say that part of what makes bringing Vamp Willow back for another round so exciting in the first place is the audience's curiosity on this very topic, which I think is probably especially roused post-Amends. (The other part, of course, is that she's just so much fun!) Vampire Willow isn't just "Willow, but Eeeeevil." She's probably not what you'd predict if asked to describe what Willow might be like as a vampire before seeing The Wish. And yet, her behavior makes perfect sense once you see her; she's not at all UNrelated to Willow either.
SK Elkins
2022-02-18 19:56:40 +0000 UTCA few smaller moments I wanted to mentionā¦and one BIG characterization flub and some general complaints that keep this from the top of the mountainā¦but the new reaction just came in, so later for this
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 16:50:21 +0000 UTCAnd let's not forget Nick Brendon, who gives such an expression in reaction to Giles's complete lack of an explanation that David Hines said Xander's line ("Can you believe the Watchers' Council let this guy go?") was almost unnecessary; Nick's face said it all. (I still like the line, though.) And SMG has such a PERFECT combination of grief and guilt all over her face when Buffy goes to bring Giles the tragic news that she makes that moment memorable without even a single line of dialogue, Even in a crowded episode, she manages to be a star.
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 16:07:15 +0000 UTCIt's so great to see Aly shine in what are, essentially, FOUR different roles. (Counting the Willows impersonating each other.). The way she differentiates VampWillow from RealWillow in the Bronze scenes is so cuteā¦her little wave to Oz, her trying to run her hand through that extra's hairā¦and getting caught, the "kindly teacher" vibe she gives to the henchvamps that she sends outside; all so perfect. But other actors also shine: ā¢. I love how, as in "Halloween", David Boreanaz is unafraid to take Angel into "thank goodness he's pretty" territory. When Angel sees Willow, David plays SO confused that I'm not certain he's figured out "there are two Willows" before Buffy clues him in by referring to VW as "her". Is he wondering "did Willow somehow stop being a vampire? Can you do that?" or "wait, how did she beat me here?" without catching the slightest clue. (Again, remember that Angel is the romantic lead and thus David will be getting his own series down the road. A lot of actors would "protect" the character; David doesn't. Good for him.) ā¢ A lot the time, Seth Green underplays Oz to the point of annoying me. I mean, showing almost no reaction isn't exactly "acting", necessarily. But it all pays off here, when Willow gives Oz the little wave and Oz responds with just the TINIEST eyebrow raise to show his surprise. Nicely done. (I wonder if they gave Seth the black eyebrows just so we could more easily spot that?)
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 16:01:38 +0000 UTCActually, FIFTEEN. (I forgot about Percy and Snyder. My bad.)
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 15:45:56 +0000 UTCWell, that will teach me to leave my comments half-finished overnightā¦and then knock the power cord loose and have the machine run out of juice. That reboot, um, gives me the opportunity to start fresh. (Yeah, that's the ticket.) My favorite of the season, as mentioned up-thread. It's so nice that, after the other writers struggled to properly use "minor" characters such as Willow and Xander (grrā¦) that Joss effortlessly gives memorable work to not only our seven regulars (and their ally, Wesley), but also Faith, the Mayor, Devon, Anya, and Alphonse (the lead vampire). That's THIRTEEN characters he juggles, in case you lost count. Take note, new writers!
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 15:43:55 +0000 UTCIt's of course just as silly to think that the vampire is COMPLETELY based on the human, and thus run out to sign Willow up for the Pride mailing list. I mean, how tf would ANGEL know if Willow has been lusting after Faith or whatever? (This is the first time he's spoken to her all season.). Not to mention that if Willow secretly HAD those ideas, she probably wouldn't be surprised to see them in VampWill, never mind call attention to them. if she'd been actively hiding that side of her. What Angel is probably saying is that things are more complex. After all, Jesse retained his interest in Cordeliaā¦but stopped caring about his bud, Xander. (Cut line from "The Harvest" script: "Cordelia's gonna live forever. You're not."). Angel himself proves thisā¦the Irish kid he once was had been a petty thief who wanted to see the world, and Angelus certainly did some pilferage on his travels. But Irish Angel was also a drunken layabout (he himself tells Darla he has no interest in "an honest day's work"), whereas Angelus was, as far as we saw, completely sober. (Vamps CAN get drunk, as we saw with Spike, but Angelus didn't do that.) And he not only made big plans, but kept at them even after sufferng setbacks. Buffy punted my balls? That just means the psychological warfare is working! I can't get the sword out of Acathla? Time to kidnap and torture Giles for the info! He's not a quitter, where his human self didn't even try. And of course, Irish Angel probably didn't know demon history, or how to do magic, or how to sword-fight, or how to read French, but Angelus can do all of those. But those are skills, not character traits, and it's not surprising that, across the centuries, Angel could have learned things. People do evolve and change after all. So perhaps my dreams of Buffy/Willow "snuggles" will come true, one day. But "this being 1999 and all", I probably shouldn't hold my breath. (Even if Whedon is larding the script with subtexty stage directions such as these [in the "Willow! You're alive!" Library scene]: "Buffy has risen more slowly, eyes wet, fearing the hope in her breast." "Buffy touches Willow's hair, still so amazed and grateful she's here." But I doubt he intends anything more than subtextā¦even if he does end the ep by having Buffy ask Willow on a date :)
Jessica Roth
2022-02-18 15:39:49 +0000 UTCThis is such a fun episode and I howled my way through it, again š When Willow scowled āIām not a vampireā I screamed. Delighted youāre enjoying this season and canāt wait for you to see whatās to come!
Dino Reviews
2022-02-17 15:24:44 +0000 UTCWhedon-penned episodes really do have a special sparkle, don't they? I'm not at all okay with the guy's personal behavior, but he can write a mean script. One of my favorite things about this episode is the way that it takes aim at the ridiculous "what people are like as vampires has nothing to do with what they were like alive" line. That claim has been obvious bullshit since the very start, when we first saw poor dead vampirized Jesse set his sites unerringly on Cordelia in the pilot, but it's nice to get some pushback on the notion directly from Angel himself here. I also really like the way that Willow's characterization as a hopelessly bad actress is established at the start of the episode by the terrible attempt at cool civility with which she responds to Faith's questions about her attempts to hack into the Mayor's computer files. It's painfully obvious that Willow *really* dislikes Faith, but she is making a genuine effort at being polite and civil to her. It's also evident that her 'genuine effort' is utterly unconvincing - a characterization beat that will then make a hilarious comeback later in the episode. I just think that's some very smart writing.
SK Elkins
2022-02-17 05:15:54 +0000 UTCI love this episode. Vamp Willow is such a great character and Alyson did such a great job with it. I love the part where she first goes into the Bronze and beats up the jerk. Plus, the scene where Buffy and crew think that Willow is dead then finds out she's alive is priceless. Plus, I've found, this episode ages well. As the show goes on, you have certain episodes you just remember and tend to go back and watch again. This is definitely one of those.
Jordan Haddow
2022-02-17 03:20:46 +0000 UTCYou know, there are, um, *other* episodes of Buffy that are supposed to be among the greatest episodes of TV ever. But this one may be that good too. Along with everything else, thereās so much character development in this one episode, in such brief scenes and encounters. For example: We get to see Angel and Oz interact ā¦ showing that in this extended group, people who really have nothing in common by themselves can kind of hang out from time to time. Cordelia finally gets to unload a bit about the whole Willow / Xander fiasco ā¦ even if itās with the wrong Willow. Willowās personality is explored in some interesting and somewhat overdue ways. We have more evidence of how much Giles cares about everyone in the Scoobies, not just Buffy. I even love seeing how in Dingoes Ate My Baby, Oz isnāt the leader ā¦ thatās Devon ā¦ but he is clearly the brains of the outfit since Devon is kind of a dope. And so much more ā¦ SO much more.
Andrew Pulrang
2022-02-17 00:01:18 +0000 UTCLol an easy pun, but always fun. Someone smarter than me once pointed out that this entire mini-arc, with Buffy's loyalties being split between her fellow Slayer and her BFF, is a "battle" between "Faith" and "Will". Almost certainly not planned, since allegedly Faith's arc was re-written on the fly. (K. Todd Freeman got a movie ["Gross Pointe Blank", alongside John Cusack, which would please Willow] and couldn't play Mr. Trick any longer. So they needed a new subvillainā¦). But sometimes you get a useful happenstance, and that would qualify.
Jessica Roth
2022-02-16 04:32:06 +0000 UTCOk, firstly (and most importantly): your āelk hornsā line made me actually laugh. Well done. :) Secondly, this episode has one of my favorite lines of the series, and I couldnāt tell whether you caught it. Ozās āthereās something about you thatās causing me to hug you. Itās like I have no will of my ownā is one of those understated lines that went right by me the first few times and I now I smile whenever I see that scene.
Noah
2022-02-16 01:51:51 +0000 UTCI swear, it took forever for me to get that your cheek was LITERALLY twitching. I thought you were just describing your emotional response. LMAO at my being so thick. (Perhaps ice next time? Numbing an irritated nerve should work, I'd think.)
Jessica Roth
2022-02-15 22:57:54 +0000 UTC
![CandidCrushTrample[CCT]](https://xaiju.com/istorage/34805.jpg)
