Season 2, Ep 18

Hahaha good, I'm glad you're okay with comments on old posts!! And thank you for understanding my irrational rage 😂

Shelby

HAHA i love the comments on old posts so no worries! and OMG no i know its SUCH a peeve of mine!! it cant be that hard to just put water in them lol so it looks more realistic?! Or at leeeast just not toss it back first sip!! Such a weird thing but like they're actors hahaha

darciesnothere

Wow...here I am commenting again on a post that is so old but it is what it is....I thought I was the only one who had that obscure pet peeve of coffee cups in shows and movies. It bugs the HELL OUT OF ME. Particularly when the cup is CLEARLY empty. The way people hold an empty cup vs a full cup is different and it's easily spotted (at least to me); and so when I can clearly see the cup is empty and then the scene even has the audacity to make the actor mime drinking coffee out of the cup??...it's painful. And also what you said about tilting the cup all the way back when they supposedly just got a fresh cup of coffee?? Irrational anger lol Anyways...

Shelby

🥺🥺 thank you as always teresa!! agreed tho, there is so much to love!.... and so much to be afraid of hahaha

darciesnothere

LOL right? one of the scariest imo 😌

darciesnothere

This episode gets a lot of hate, but it goes to show that even the lesser liked episodes of Buffy always have something worth watching. Some of my favorite moments are: In the beginning scene, Xander’s “Take a walk, Overbite” to Angelus. The hospital confrontation between them is also good. I love the conversation outside: Giles: “Cordelia, have you actually ever heard of tact?” Cordelia: “Tact is just not saying true stuff. I'll pass.” And then later when Xander suggests Cordelia help Giles with research: Giles, “Why do I have to have... Uh, good thinking.” Cordelia: (to Giles) “Let's go, tact-guy.” The library scene between Giles and Cordelia with the demons. Pretty much love Cordelia in this whole episode. Willow’s frog fear… Also, the actress that plays Celia is amazing. The last thing I like about this episode is that we learn that Buffy’s emotions are somewhat tied to her slayer power. She never gets sick because of her slayer healing. But she’s felt so much grief and guilt at the loss of Jenny that she caught the flu and got sick enough to have to be hospitalized. While this may not be a favorite episode, watching it with you makes it 100 times better!!

Teresa Schultz

Chad Kroger! putting fear in peoples hearts since 1984 . LMAO oh Darcie we love you. :)

Christine Ester

WELCOME BACK!!! (but its okay if you ever need to leave and come back again! come and go as you please!! but of course im always happy to have you here) you know, i was always told this show would rip my heart out... and i was like nahhhh... but only in season 2.... it happened LOL i can't wait to see how this season ends!!

darciesnothere

LOL i was so SURE hahaha! and yes i noticed too, i thought it happened during export but its actually from the episode file itself. :( it happens next episode too. i might have to check out (or get someone to check out for me) the next few episodes and see if its still happening! sorry about that!!

darciesnothere

okay LOL at the joyce comment hahaha...you're right lol. i have never noticed the moles!

darciesnothere

ahhh all this behind the scenes stuff especially with writers is so interesting! so much happening at once to bring us each episode. :)

darciesnothere

LOL im glad it was worth it!! i wasnt aware of what misophonia was and looked it up - can definitely see why this would be a skip for you!

darciesnothere

LOL i am SORRY you guys!

darciesnothere

thats a fair point about it being intentional! focusing on something else and getting your mind off of that is a very real way to cope with a loss so i can see that!

darciesnothere

After re-subscribing on the 1st, I am now completely caught up. I hadn't planned to binge them all so quickly, but you just make every episode, even the ones I normally skip, so great. I am so freaking excited about all that's to come for you with this show. The end of season 2 is amazing and season 3 is easily my favorite season. I am so sorry you've experienced your first BTVS heartache. I wish I could make you feel better but this show will rip your heart out, but at least it always makes you laugh along the way. There's a reason we fans always come back. ;) I realize I am not even commenting about this actual episode, but I don't care much about this episode. :) It also makes me sad seeing Willie Garson in here. I adored him and he just passed away. Such a sweet, caring man. Little Buffy is not blonde because Buffy is a natural brunette, just like SMG. Anyway, I am sooo happy to be back on the Darcie train!! I'm never leaving again! <3

cruzinbosco

Xander watches Bollywood musicals. (Griping, but he watches.) I agree with the concept of Xander as "pop-culture sponge"; he'll absorb whatever is put out there. It's not easy to find an airing of "Faster, Pussycat…Kill, Kill!" these days, either. (Although it's possible he simply heard of that one, I'll allow.) Personally, I think Xander would watch a test-pattern if Willow had said they were going to. But that could just be my own Willow-centric bias, I'm aware.

Jessica Roth

It's also been a while, but I think you're right, the point of the Bill & Ted joke is that they *don't* play chess. I just find it hard to believe that Xander watches Berman films.

David Meadows

It's possible, but Xander was only 9 when that came out, so even at PG, I don't know that he would have seen it in a theater. And we know they don't have cable. Perhaps he rented it from a video store, but I can see Willow drafting him for Bergman on PBS just as well. Also, it's been a while, but does Death actually display his chess skills in the film? I know Bill & Ted beat him by challenging him to modern games (Twister, etc) but is there a reason why X would warn Buffy against chess, specifically, based on that film?

Jessica Roth

I was choking on water, took me a few minutes to recover 😂

Steveo

Huh. I thought Xander was more likely to be referring to Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey.

David Meadows

I'll admit, I have never noticed that thing on her face.

David Meadows

Ok I was legit crying laughing at the Chad Kroger look up to see he was Nickelbacks singer 😂😂😂 One nitpick, I noticed the audio seemed a bit out of sync this episode 😔

Steveo

It was the hat wasn't it? It's always the hat.

Shaun Houghton

Der Kinderstad was giving me Freddy Krueger vibes, boy is he creeepyyyyy

A limo with lights and siren on top, interesting visual.

Shaun Houghton

Patreon ate my post again! But I was too clever, hah! This should go right after the post about which writers get what credit: ******************************************* So what’s new? The Angel scenes, the Cordy scenes, the references to Jenny, and Willow’s frog fear. Plus a general polish. (I do wish we could get one more Angel scene, keep him a consistent menace throughout. Maybe something such as this: Buffy is hurrying to reach the kids. Suddenly the lights go out. Angel stands in front of her, vampire face on, smirking. ANGEL: Hello, Lover. Buffy kicks him hard and fast in the shin, Angel goes down. Buffy resumes heading towards the kids, focused on the task at hand. Angel rises to a knee, looks after her. ANGEL (confused): Something I said? Maybe not quite that flip, but you get the idea.) Going against the grain (as he often did) a prominent contemporary fan reviewer, David Hines, expressed his appreciation for the episode by saying “Every character gets a page”. And he’s right: it’s a strong episode for the whole gang. Willow saves Buffy’s life (twice), gets Giles to start investigating despite his…mood (with “but on the ‘we live on a Hellmouth’ side of things” fitting in nicely with “Reptile Boy” and “this being Sunnydale and all…”, which was also from a Willow/Giles scene), gives us adorable moments with the homework and pushing the chair and playing Doctor the wrong way, and totally rocks her feigned frog-fear in the crisis, ending with that excellent “no more frogs…” Xander stands up to Angel twice, both physically and in the test of wills that is the “White Knight” scene. He makes another film reference, citing the chess scene from “The Seventh Seal” (which is a RATHER different movie from “Faster, Pussycat…Kill, Kill!”, although some say “Pussycat” is inspired by a different Bergman film, “The Virgin Spring”) and takes charge of the group, getting a whimpering Giles to accept Cordelia’s help. He also listens when Cordelia complains about his ignoring her, albeit in a snarky way, “checking out her back” as she heads off. And he’s there helping Buffy at the end, getting the kids to safety. Cordy fights off Angel, works as part of the team, talks her way out of a tight spot with Sexy Guard Don, and demands respect and gets it (however reluctantly) from both Xander and Giles. And she finds the monster, so go Research Cordy! (Also, getting those Krispy Kremes took effort; in 1998, they were still pretty much a Southern thing. There were like two places in all of LA where you could buy them. Quality snack delivery on Cordelia’s part.) And Buffy… Buffy, Buffy. Running herself ragged out of guilt, but never shirking her responsibilities. Declaring herself a “hero” as she tries to fulfill the role she must have known she was born for, even in the “Power Girl” days. The difference is, now she knows she WON’T save everybody. She feels every failure (it took her TWO Inspiring Speeches to deal with Theresa’s death, you’ll recall) and yet she keeps trying, being there for Ryan and co. as she wasn’t able to be there for Celia. Aww. (And Rupe is understandably off of his game, but that’s characterization, as well. Although Buffy clearly wasn’t thrilled with his thinking Ryan’s drawing was her work, lol.) *****************************

Jessica Roth

Lol, with all the business he gives them, they should have a chauffeured limo on call for him!

Jessica Roth

Maybe Giles has a reserved parking place right by the ER entrance (after so many concussions) but Joyce had to park streets away ;) Also, the moles, nice catch :)

R J Walker (FumblesMcStupid)

And now…the ANSWER! What is… "That thing" on Buffy's face? Sarah Michelle Gellar has two moles on her chin (one large and one small) that are covered by concealer. Ironic to have Cordelia point this out, as Charisma Carpenter has only recently stopped covering the "beauty spot" on HER right cheek. (It still seems relatively small, so perhaps she's still diminishing it, somewhat.)

Jessica Roth

DARCIE (as Willow tells Cordelia to call Joyce): Think of a good lie. ME: It’s Joyce; how good does the lie need to be, honestly? One reactor bitterly noted that Giles got to the hospital before Joyce, but maybe that just means Cordelia had trouble explaining things. Or that the gallery is REALLY busy these days. (After all, apparently Joyce was working so late in “Innocence” that she wasn’t home to see Buffy crying herself to sleep.) So, WHAT IS “that thing” on Buffy’s face? (It took me three tries to get it, but once you see it, you can’t not notice it. Cheeky of them to tweak their star that way.) Yes, Cynthia Bergstrom is at the top of her costume game with those sweaters and Cordy’s outfits, but let’s also give a shout-out to Buffy’s hospital wear; the wife-beater with the little picture and those lovely sleep pants with the great texture. Love it. And let’s not forget Lisa Rosenberg and the hair team…Willow’s locks look lovely. (And also Cordelia’s hair, but that usually looks great.)

Jessica Roth

So, here’s why the episode doesn’t quite fit in with the flow…it’s only partly a new episode. The script is credited to Dean Batali and Rob DesHotel (last script was “Phases”), but they weren’t even with the show any longer at this point. In planning ahead for Season 3, Joss was looking to revamp the writing staff, and he’d given Rob & Dean their notices, so that they could look for new jobs during pilot season, which is traditionally the first few months of the year. (Indeed, one of them already had a new job by this time, as I understand it.) The problem was that Joss was running out of writers; Carl Ellsworth (“Halloween”) had wanted to do more work, but Something Happened. (There’s an interview with Ellsworth out there that I need to read, but I haven’t yet.) So basically the staff was just Joss and David Greenwalt and Marti Noxon at this point. And Greenie was handling the production end (during the year, you can put production issues off if need be, but when you start running up against the finale date, you lose that option) and Marti had writer credit on 5 of the previous 8 episodes (from 2.09 to 2.16) and even she can’t write EVERYTHING. So Joss called his old boss, Ty King, to help out with “Passion” and he dug out an old Season 1 script from Rob & Dean that hadn’t been produced in order to cover a spot. Originally, this was intended for late Season 1, after Buffy finds out that Angel is a vampire. She collapses on patrol, Angel takes her to the hospital…and then isn’t seen again until the tag, since David isn’t yet a regular and we don’t need to give him so much to do. (Angel can’t control himself around all that blood, that’s his excuse for not sticking around.) The gang comes to visit (nobody has any real idea why Cordelia is there, since she’s not in the group yet, but CC DOES have a contract, so…), Buffy investigates the deaths, finds the unlikely suspect and solves the mystery, the end. Between this and Rob & Dean’s other late-season submission (“The Puppet Show”), Joss felt that the dummy story had more potential, and stuck this in a drawer. But, as you note, he did take elements (the Ugly Man, the small boy as information source, the hospital) and build out into the wider story treatment that he gave to Greenwalt to write “Nightmares”, on which Joss got “Story” credit. Now, should Rob & Dean also have gotten story credit for “Nightmares”, then? Possibly, but NOBODY likes going to the arbitration panel of the Writer’s Guild, because you have to go through the script line-by-line, all “I wrote this, but I didn’t write that” so they can total things up and make their decision. (Joss had tried to take credit for “Witch” away from Dana Reston, because he and Greenwalt had come up with the body-switch plot twist together and he felt it was a bonding experience for the two of them, but he lost.) I don’t know this, but I’m guessing that Joss struck a deal; Batali and DesHotel didn’t get any credit on “Nightmares”, but they did get full and sole credit for “The Puppet Show”, even though Joss had also rewritten that one. (The original script is out there, and Alyson Hannigan gave an interview where she talked about Joss taking time from rewriting 1.09 in his office to come down to the set and help her with her performance in 1.08.) So presumably everyone was happy, and Joss had the bare bones of “Buffy vs. Freddy in the hospital” to use when he needed it. And now he needed it.

Jessica Roth

I always skip this one on rewatches, but the Nickleback thing was totally worth it. This is my least favorite episode because of all the infuriating screaming. I have misophonia and it sends me over the edge.

Ashley

You should have put a trigger warning at the start of this. I was watching it over lunch and seriously choked on my cheese sandwich at "Chad Kroger" :P

David Meadows

Well, this is a fun creepy little episode. It's kind of fun because we get a unique perspective on Buffy. How many times do we get to see her totally powerless and defenseless? The team sure got into action and stuck with her, even Cordy. In some ways, I think this was kind of Cordy's episode. There was a lot of focus on her, her feelings for Xander, and even the teams acceptance of her as one fo them. How many times was Cordy being her usual self and the team members did a little look that acknowledged her abrasiveness but ultimately let it slide because she was one of them. I also like how Xander and her have settled into the light bickering of a couple, not the passionate yelling we were used to when they first started their little relationship. One thing though, I have to say I really didn't care for one scene. When Cordy dropped the bag of doughnuts and sat down. If you go back and watch it, the camera was situated basically at the base of her miniskirt as she bent forward to place the coffees down. All I could think for that scene would be how awkward for Charisma to stand with a giant camera looking looking straight at the base of her skirt while bending over. The shot was too low to see anything, still seems super awkward to me. Also, a number of people balk at this episode following Passion. It doesn't surprise me. I tend to think of the episode after a very emotional one as a pallet cleanser. It's meant to change our thoughts away from the trauma. Also, this episode was playing off the idea that Jenny's death had such an impact on Buffy that it weakened her to the point where her inbuilt slayer immunity couldn't even keep her from getting sick. Beyond that, I kind of think that her getting sick was also part of her powers to sense dangerous beings around her. She gets dreams and various feelings, like in Ted, that help her focus in on hidden dangers. I think they may have used that a bit in the idea of making her sick. The enemy was so hidden, that she needed to get sick to even notice it. Having been so close to it as a child may have strengthened that sense for this creature as well. All speculative nonsense really, but it lends to the whole back story of her being their when the creature killed her cousin. One last thing. I think the lack of mention of Jenny's death was intentional. After a death, especially of someone so close, people tend to focus on it to the point of exclusion of the world around them. I think they had Buffy placed in an emergency, something everyone could use as an excuse to focus on something other than Jenny, specifically to minimize bringing her death up. A kind of light denial by everyone to just get a bit of a breather from the grief.

Jordan Haddow