Succession 4x8

Also it’s been fuck shiv since season 1

Pablo

Ah what a shame I came back to Patreon cause I couldn’t be bothered waiting weeks so I wanted to catch up in one go and a couple oddballs who spend their life on twitter ruining it for YouTube viewers

Pablo

fuck shiv

JotaroDrake

Genuinely asking, what do you think they don’t grasp about Shiv? Roshi in particular is pretty spot on with his assessment of the characters in this show so I don’t know what you jump to “internalized misogyny.” Shiv is my least favorite of the siblings too but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand her, her plight of being a woman in a male dominated society, why she does the things she does and so on. But it also doesn’t mean I don’t undervalue the other characters shortcomings and how some of their actions are worse than anything she has done.

Aaron Posey

Being called as an idiot and being called a misogynist are two completely different things, and one carries significantly more weight than the other. There is clearly not much substantive discussion to be had in a Patreon or YouTube comment section with a random, therefore uploading these reactions to YouTube is not worth the inherent risk of these baseless accusations, and, ultimately, these labels sticking and affecting their livelihood in the long run.

Aaron Posey

Niggas crashing out over another persons opinion, one they pay monthly to watch.

Aaron Posey

This comment section is wild as fuck.

Aaron Posey

I was confused when people said he tweeted he wouldn’t upload these to YouTube because of toxicity and was confused because these reactions don’t generate a ton of comments usually.

Aaron Posey

Lol right? Is the writing so effective at makin you hate female characters or do people naturally hate women and therefore get easily riled up by any negative thing they do

Danielle

You’re welcome! I love helping out people with the critical thinking skills of toddlers

Danielle

Or maybe you are just wrong. Because this has absolutely nothing to do with her gender as a character. If she were a MALE our complaints and opinions would be exactly the same and unchanged. That is what you are failing to realize. It has absolutely nothing to do with her gender. Her character just happens to be a woman. But our comments have nothing to do with the fact she is a woman.

itzsheera

Thank you for your service!

Helpy

You should pray for yourself if you think $5-$10 is a serious financial sacrifice. it should be obvious that it’s not coming from a place of hatred and anyone here enjoys them overall. You know that but you don’t know how to respond so you’ve resorted to this instead lol. try again or don’t

Danielle

He replied to Sheraya because her comments were the most aggressive, but he simply doesn’t like what anyone else is saying on the matter and is scapegoating her for his decision to avoid even more critique. Roshi refusing to upload it is entirely on him. I enjoy their reactions but I call it as I see it.

Danielle

Paying a membership to act like this 😭🙏 Praying for you guys

Helpy

Jazko that’s fine, I am losing respect for it though considering when you scroll through it was just her that was being more direct about the critique and even then it was not a straight up you hate women and want them in the kitchen like everyone’s acting 🤷🏾‍♀️ . He admitted that he doesn’t want to hear it from even more people because that’s what will happen because they do have a point. Also, that doesn’t negate my point that it’s unavoidable on patreon because it’s literally happening in the patreon comments.

Danielle

Sheraya, ctfu it was literally just you. The rest of us were being nicer about it. I’m honestly losing respect for this kind of behavior. He had the same reaction when he was on the hot seat over daredevil episode. I’m noticing a pattern here

Danielle

Jazko, I’ve seen men in here calling Sheera a dumb bitch on multiple occasions. Lupa gets called all kinds of names but anytime it’s Roshi suddenly things aren’t being posted on YouTube.

Danielle

Traplikemaxx I will not log off but you’re free to learn how to utilize the block button

Danielle

Defamation. Lmao

Danielle

Wow, just read these comments. I want to say I DO NOT think you’re a misogynist in any way 😅 I do think female characters sometimes get hated on more than they should though. I’m not making that personal to your take. Shiv gets really personal with her attacks, but I do just think Kendall and Roman have done worse overall. But their personalities are more likable

Has Noname

Shiv literally went in person. Rhea even told her "you don't have to do this." Hell, she was even trying to throw Rhea under the bus for everything. PLUS, shiv was on the outside with Gil, got the evidence from Tom, and then proceeded to leave Gil and go back and serve the company and pops.

Cosmic Ghidorah

Shiv is terrible, but she’s not the worst sibling lmao. Kendall abused drugs for most of the show and literally killed a kid. Roman is an asshole pussy with no real respect for other people. Shiv has her flaws and she isn’t fit for CEO, but you can’t hate her for trying to make moves when literally everyone else in the show did the same thing. I can’t think of her having done anything as comparably bad as Kendall and Roman tbh

Has Noname

1. this isn’t an airport so no need to announce your exit like a self important prick. 2. Comparing Roshi to a guy who has had literal neo n*zis on stream to an audience of thousands is fucking insane. You aren’t a serious person, goodbye 👋🏿

naa

I’m bringing it up cuz that’s my most recent memory he does it to Kanye west too what is the difference? He don’t actually know them yet he makes judgements and has said some personal shit about them. It’s to point out his hypocrisy and that the point hes trying to make is silly and hypocritical. I didn’t even say anything personal about him like he does others…. What’s so difficult for yall to grasp?

Sheraya san

Oh no I’m done now esp w the way he reacted talking about im talking like I know him personally lol like sir u have thousands of vids showcasing who u are and ur opinion. I can make a judgement call based off of it, its not just 1 thing or 1 character, its a conglomerate. and just cuz I don’t agree w everything doesnt mean i wasnt supportive and enjoyed their channel & was invested in certain shows. So dont ask me nothing stupid like that again. just cuz i said i think they have poor comprehension on true complex Female characters and he doesnt really understand them and always blamed the writers instead of Looking inward. he made it seem like i was blatantly calling him a mysogonist when i didnt, further proving my point abt a lack of Comprehension on his end. I didnt even say nothing about him or his wife personally and they were tryna preach on some “ u dont actually know us to be speaking on us personally” when 1 who did that? And 2 this man literally does that himself to artists who he solely watches on tv and does not personally know. It’s the same shit so therefor that point was hypocritical. Im 1 person who disagrees w him and actually challenged his thought process. 100s here agreeing w him and kissing his ass & hes going on twitter boohoo crying talkin about we toxic and he wont upload to YT. Like mannnn MISS ME! His arrogance is growing and it’s starting to show. They also have said some racist ass shit (especially lupa in an aggressive non joking manner) we all stay letting them get away but i would be wrong and attacked if i pointed that out? He’s built a toxic community of ass kissers ala Adin Ross atp

Sheraya san

Kendall also backstabs his family each chance he gets in pursuit of what he wants but he's such a narcissist he thinks he's doing it FOR them which sounds a lot like Logan. Kendall is peak "good guy" and deludes himself (and viewers) that he's a decent and kind person. That's why I'm so glad Logan read him back in 3x8. He's his father's son. I don't hate Kendall for this or anything, I think it makes him fascinating.

briana

I personally love Shiv and I think she's one of the most interesting television characters in years but a lot of people really feel for Tom and Kendall, especially on the first watch of this show. If you ever revisit this show in the future in your personal time you might feel differently about a lot of these characters in general. My favorites are Shiv, Roman, and Tom.

briana

Look all the siblings suck, but it's wild how Shiv gets zero slack. Shiv threw the pregnancy in Tom's face cause she was pissed he just said she killed her father. No one is saying anything about Tom though. The whole plan of the siblings was to sell the company so they could do their own thing, but Roman and Ken get a taste of power and decide to tank the sale behind Shiv's back. Yet somehow Shiv is the betrayer in this situation. Ken publicly humiliates Shiv during her first speech as President of Waystar, but Shiv's the one who stepped over the line with the letter. Ken staged multiple coups against Logan and dragged his name through the mud after he died but Shiv is the one who doesn't care about the family. Okay.

Mike A

I want to ad my comment and say its sad you wont be uploading succession to you tube. This show is tricky with reactions because of how political and divisive the plot points are. With that being said shiv is an awful character in her own way, Rome is conservative trash and Kendall... IS PERFECT TEAM KENDALL.

Who Knows

You see i don't care about stimulus if the reason why we needed those stimulus was because he downplayed how severe coivd was. He makes an issue and then his victories are fixing problems he caused. I bet you clapped like a seal when he made the TikTok ban go away even though he made that a possibility lmao.

Who Knows

Okay the blowback on this is insane. Also, shiv was never a Mencken fan since season 3 but yea she def acted out of self-interest the entire season and the entire show. Shiv is my personal fav character but I have her as that KNOWING she is such a big piece of shit and this season is her kinda at her worst. I don’t really get the misogynistic comments towards yall this is just basic fucking character analysis lol. Shiv made shit plays and cannot handle any failure. The shit blew up in her face lmaoo and she was just hella desperate the entire show. Idk if this makes sense, I just love this show and these reactions

Lamine

no, its just this ep

naa

I don't watch Succession, but after seeing Roshi's tweet, I had to see what was going on. Is it this chaotic in the comments every episode?

Merfhew

Sucks cause after having a laugh reading these comments i know i would have had a field day with the youtube comments 🤣 shiv got her defensive squad in a chokehold or spell

kingBD

No way you're bringing up old tweets about kendrick lamar.. Do you even like this channel? It might be time for you to log off for a bit lmao

jimjimjaroo

None of them own up to it 😭 it’s just bias

Sheraya san

if its been bothering you so much and you've been holding it in over multiple reactions, why even pay to watch content that makes you this upset

naa

I did and I still stand on what I said

Sheraya san

I said u have a hard time understanding complex female characters and there’s an underlying mysogonistic undertone in ur commentary and you crying like im saying u hate women in general. YOURE taking it personal, I didn’t say anything about u personally. Bringing up women in ur family cuz no man HAS EVER been raised by women and grew up to treat them terrible right? lol im not saying u do but that’s a terrible defense even if I was, that’s very “I can’t be racist cuz I have black friends” of you. So that defense is laughable. yall need to be babied anytime there’s legit criticism towards you. Like how dismissive lupa was when ppl called out his racist comments. But that wouldve been us attacking u personally vs what was actually said right? That vagina argument u making is weak bruh it’s a repeated pattern I’ve noticed and that’s what I’m saying all this boohoo crying over legit criticism cuz u saw the word mysogony and felt it was a personal attack lmfao

Sheraya san

I genuinely did not know there was an issue with the reaction until I got to the comments.. There is not even a sliver of misogyny in this to me, Shiv is just a spiteful virtue-signaling baby that will not tolerate being dealt a hand she thinks isn't worthy of herself.

Moon God

“Weirdos” and it’s just me but I make a solid point and he’s boohoo crying cuz of what little old me said. He made that caption to begin with because I’ve called this out w multiple other characters as well so it’s not just 1. I never said he hated women in general I said they have a hard time grasping actually complex female characters and then they always blame the writers lol

Sheraya san

Exactly I was the only one bold enough to say he has underlying misogynistic tones and they all are freaking out 😭 he crying on twitter talkin abt how he not posting on YT cuz I dared called out his mentality. I’ve watched plenty of reactors and they don’t like shiv so for his audience to defend him saying I’m only saying this “cuz he dislikes a character who happens to be a woman” is just narratively dishonest.

Sheraya san

lol blaming shiv for covering up shit after her brothers and father and husband were also covering up and it was blowing up in their face and she was trying to save them is mysogony hun

Sheraya san

Saying something has mysogonist undertones does not mean I’m saying in his personal life he hates women. His commentary is questionable and it consistently is towards actual complex female characters. Y’all the ones taking it personally. The way yall react to the word mysogony you would think it applies to nobody. Y’all always blaming the writers and mt retorr to that is yalls mentality is just skewed. It’s not always the writers, sometimes it is you.

Sheraya san

Nah I said what I said for a reason FOH w that shit

Sheraya san

Oh boohoo. That’s nobody’s decision but their own

Sheraya san

Ppl have called him out for other characters before this isn’t the first time so yeah lol….

Sheraya san

I would literally say this to any Jamaicans face & have lol so there YOU go acting like YOU know me while trying to preach to me. That’s hypocrisy hun

Sheraya san

Idgaf if he uploads it to YouTube lol. Cuz he knows he will get criticized even more, he’s scared that’s why. Don’t blame me for his decisions on his channel, I’m 1 person, nice try, blaming me instead of being honest abt him makes u a dickrider. He wrote that caption to begin with cuz he’s received this criticism before, it’s not just me. Even the differences in his reactions to the women vs men on LOB has always rubbed me the wrong way. I don’t think he’s full blown mysogonist and I originally said that but some of his commentary and opinions have mysogonist undertones. The same way they make underlying racist comments (I dare yall to say they don’t and there are times when they not joking) that doesn’t mean I think they full blown racist but u can’t get mad if someone says that they are. it’s also his verbage and the way he expresses his opinion that is off putting to Me. Idc I said what I said y’all wanna be defensive for a man that yall also do not know(they’re Jamaican right?) I’ve been holding it in for a long time and I was really curious to see how this show would play and it was exactly what I thought. Even the argument on the balcony they just kissed Toms ass and didn’t take what she said to him inconsideration at all. I understand y’all Roshi dickriders tho. And this kicked puppy think he’s doing on twitter is pathetic too

Sheraya san

So if they say racist shit because we don’t know them we can’t call them racist? Huh?

Sheraya san

Shiv has been trying to "have her cake and eat it too" since the very beginning. She has always been playing both sides and tries to screw over everyone. Which is hilarious since it always fails too

Cosmic Ghidorah

Ken and shiv are much alike in a sense they way weigh in there morals vs self interest and at the end they prioritize their self interest with shiv fake call and Ken siding with Roman it’s just Ken has more say in this power dynamics and pushes his kids to the side like Logan except Logan knew who he was while Ken is back and fourth without being 100 percent honest with himself. Meanwhile shiv wanted to side Jimenez in hopes he supports the deal with mattson,while yes he likes Jimenez for his politics side and doesn’t want a trump 2.0 in charge of the White House, in the end it was for her own benefits. It’s just that with shiv it would be screwing her family and business and for Ken would be screwing his kids future and the country future. With the lesser than two evils here it would make Ken decision more evil than shivs.

Marv

While shiv is inexperienced and continues to try both sides leaving option for herself and it fails miserably and implodes on her face.Ken is this fake Jesus crap and he’s generally not a good person you can’t be Logan and be a good father at the same time you gotta choose which one. The moment he decided go to Roman it wasn’t out of business sense or this complex thing for Ken it was to spite shiv and hurt her,makes things even worse is now it sets up for Roman and Mencken to be buddy buddy and this could really screw Kendall himself up bad all because he let his emotions get the best of him.

Marv

324 comments???????

tinitoysoldier

I disagree with his opinion but that doesn’t justify people calling him misogynistic. You can disagree without throwing out insults or labels

Kris Khachikyan

difference here. People mad at Roshi for no reason. Lupa taking the W away from Mark, that hate was warranted

ShaquanVirse

cuz you a bitch

Manny

Chronically online please log off

traplikemaxxx

Roshi didn’t even say anything crazy, calling it misogyny is wild lmao

traplikemaxxx

you’re too deep in lmao, just unsub weirdo

traplikemaxxx

You know, I never thought about it, but Jess is hot.

AutumnOnFire

I think people really hate Shiv the most because she quietly convinces the viewer that she is the "good one" of an awful family. This season proves that it's all bullshit and all these people are the fucking same.

Jhop

two things can be true at once: The hatred towards Shiv's character is warranted. She's a faux liberal feminist yt woman whose form of feminism isn't dismantling harmful patriarchal/yt supremascist systems but making room for herself and other yt women to gain power in them - she isn't meant to be likeable however let's be honest - Shiv hasn't done anything Logan or the other haven't done (cheating, betrayal etc) but because she's a woman, it's not acceptable coming from her (which is why at the end of the day she's constantly shut out and as an audience we judge her more harshly) But then, on top of it - u see how deeply hypocritical she is because her willingness to be like Logan and be evil never really amounts to anything meaningful for her the way it does for the men in her family

Shubomi Adedoyin

@Cosmic Ghidorah Which is ironic with all the people in here yelling misogyny...Shiv's character literally took part in misogyny lmfao.

Luke Barnes

Were you paying attention to the episode? Shiv was the one that didn’t bother pushing back against Roman until the very end. She cares more about her position as CEO than the country. It’s clear throughout the episode that Kendall is struggling with conflicted interests, but at the same time Roman was making a “good call” for the company. Kendall literally tells Shiv to convince Jimenez to block the deal for the betterment of both the country, his family, and the company but once again Shiv can’t live with being a shadow Co-CEO of the company.

Jazko

I mean being called an Idiot from paid subscribers is a lot better than being called a misogynist on YT. Defamation ruins peoples careers a lot more than “haha you stupid” comments

Jazko

Bro they are making more than enough money to simply not post Succession reactions. Just like other shows that have heavy Copyright rules, it’s only a minor hindrance in the grand scheme of things

Jazko

First off, I'll say what I want to because I know what I'm talking about. You're assuming I haven't watched this show multiple times and know how the viewers react to it. It's not conjecture. I know. I was there. Mind you I don't even like Shiv. I'm not saying anyone is a misogynist for not liking her. I can't stand her personally, and I'm a woman. Plus, I literally said some of the viewers. Not all. Not most. Some. It's not a bizarre thing to say when you know how tv fandoms are. You're overreacting to something I never said. But it's fine.

Futuristic Girl

You're an actual idiot wow this is hilarious lmao

Jalen Holmes

Difference is volume, when people criticize them usually its within reason but the shiv crew is being very underhanded attacking roshi’s character. There’s always a few but not to this level, they’re already dealing with anime dweebs doing it why add onto the pile? They make more Adsense money off animated stuff anyway look at their most popular videos 90% animation or skits

PJ Rivera

Shiv literally witnessed tampered and pressured a sexual assault victim into not testifying just to save her family's company. She found out about cruises and proceeded to intimidate victims, cover up for the bad guys, and throw tom under the bus. Hell, Tom even tried to tell her about it in season 1 and she brushed it off

Cosmic Ghidorah

Bruh why people liking your comment? It's the stupidest shit I've ever read 😭

Danger Tomato

Sorry but I don’t think “I believe there’s underline misogyny at play” is reasonable grounds to not post it on youtube. He can do what he wants it’s his channel but lol. What happens in the future when they give their opinion and someone thinks it’s misogynist/racist/ableist/homophobic etc etc. Just not post it on YouTube? How is that gonna work in the long run? they get called all sorts of names on here from anime peeps on a regular basis so that’s why I’m confused. Maybe I’m wrong and they don’t get much money from YouTube, but shows they plan on reacting to in the future will invoke the same kind of discussions on here. It happened with Daredevil a couple weeks ago and Roshi got defensive in the comments over his stance there too. Which he has every right to clap back but I don’t see how it’s avoidable unless they plan on only reacting to animes forever.

Danielle

A business decision. Lol ok. He literally said he doesn’t want to get annoyed from the comments and that’s why he won’t post it. Meanwhile they get called idiots and all sorts of harsher names from the smooth brained anime fans all the time.

Danielle

Roshi made a business decision to not infect their Youtube with all of this toxicity from this fanbase, smart man. These 3 have enjoyed hundreds of shows with little issue, but now you weirdo's show up and all of a sudden there's "underline misogyny" because they hate one female character. Get over yourself, they support and enjoy plenty of female characters, there's just no reason to believe they randomly hate women in this one show.

Helpy

“That’s just an emotional response” and Roshi deciding he’s just not gonna post succession on YouTube because of “underlying misogyny at play” from a few ppl is not an emotional response. Everything you said is debatable and not fact. That’s the point.

Danielle

If it's false then yes it is a crazy accusation. They've provided fair points against all of the siblings including Shiv, they just happen to not like her as much and there is nothing wrong with that. Just because the majority feel like they should hate the others more doesn't suddenly make them have underlying misogyny...that's just an emotional response

Helpy

“Crazy accusations” and it’s someone saying “I think there’s underline misogyny at play.” Please be fucking serious. So if a white person says something that exposes a subconscious bias they have towards any other race and it’s pointed out to them, they can just cry out “stop labeling me” and it’s all good? Okay 😂

Danielle

Lol

Melon Lord

I reviewed your words again just to make sure I got the bullshit correctly, you think there's underlying misogyny because they "don't understand complex female characters". I think you're just a fucking idiot. I think you like to label things and people to better try and get your dense world view around others. Would you like to name off every female character they've 'internally misogynized' or would you like to shut the fuck up and stop commenting dumb shit under their posts? Consider how you like to label everything to make it sound bad, and I'll come back around and say everything you do is misandrist, communist, sexist, ableist, etc. and show specific points and you can MAYBE understand how antithetical your comments are to basic, 1st-grade discussion.

TheDroppedFry

"Your Honor, I cannot prove that they believe the way they do because of some outward interaction or expression, but instead because they internally thought in their heads the idea with no proof of my own, and I use any form of disagreement to support my ideal."

TheDroppedFry

In the show she's definitely despised because of her womanhood. You really shouldn't say the same of viewers who have been watching since like I dunno, 5 years ago? Do you have evidence of people being misogynist or is this just conjecture as usual?

TheDroppedFry

Her playing the "oh I'm bad but not as bad as you guys" card doesn't help her one bit. She is a malignant narcissist the only difference and why she's considered worse is she does not own up to it AT ALL. She also tries to disguise it as moral virtue signaling which is probably why she's despised so much- hiding your arrogance and agenda behind a 'oh i'm so good' persona tends to get you more hate than simply "I'm a sarcastic bitch" like Roman or "I'm just pretending to feel bad about it" like Kendall.

TheDroppedFry

You're a misandrist because you only view women as the ones who are viewed at fault meaning you are prejudiced. Truly, we can play these identity politics all day long.

TheDroppedFry

I know that now. 🤷

Jamaal Ellison

Shiv ruins everything. 😭

Jamaal Ellison

🧢😭

Jamaal Ellison

Goddamn i saw on Roshi's post on X and had to come see the shitshow for myself. The last time I was up here they were only about seventy nine comments. I don't think I've ever seen this many comments for succession episode before. I know it's joke around with the crew whenever ther was a late upload or rescheduling a say stuff whether they could tell or not I was always joking never serious. The negative discourse over one man's opinion given in real time in the comments section is embarrassing. I'm ashamed of my fellow subscribers and Succession fans and sad that a bunch of idiots online has made these people have such a negative experience with such a wonderful show after so much hype.

Jamaal Ellison

That shit is ass

Danger Tomato

I used some of it to try quiznos for the first time.

Jamaal Ellison

"Sigh" it sounded like the comment a woman would post.

Jamaal Ellison

Came back to this after the tweet gahdamn y’all popped off in these comments 😭

Bree

This is like the invincible finale except y’all done went buck wild on Roshi instead of Lupa 😭 we are fucking adults man get it together

DJ Muldrow

Yeah I didn’t read the comments first time around but mfs really calling them “internalized misogynist” because they don’t like a character, TOUCH FUCKING GRASS

DJ Muldrow

Wendy is not a good character to make your case lol she's unequivocally evil. Marty is too but the whole hook of Ozark was that his wife gets into the business and is actually way more ruthless and cunning about it than he ever was. She was supposed to be the scary one, he had to work up to her level for the rest of the show 😂 Skyler haters are weird though, she just wanted to be safe and return to a normal life for the entire show.

John Cedar

Or a certain YouTuber who popularized "hood weeb" and racists ran with it. The anime sphere sucks sometimes

Ellijah Brown

Jesus lord saw the tweet and came to read. Some of y'all have no idea how to talk to ppl fr. Shiv's character is written to be a white woman who masquerades as being liberal, feminist, and caring about actual issues. However, like the rest of her family, is a terrible person. Her characterization is one of backstabbing through underhanded and personal methods. Personal attacks hurt more since we're attached to the characters. She does this with Tom, Greg, Ken, and even her close friends who are women While being the worst of the siblings, Rome never does anything on a personal level. Plus if he wasn't funny, dear lord he'd be despised. This is a common factor in the show. Unfortunate for her character but I understand the hate

Ellijah Brown

Yall act like this group is NicholasLight and that's hilarious. Some people wont like your favorite character who gives af.

Jesse

Bro you know it bad when even sheera is commenting the shiv fan club is doing the most

Fizzy

You mfs are lame as shit how you gonna label a man misogynist when you barely know him these niggas are so chronically online that they just be saying goofy shit all cause of shiv SHIV😭😭😭😭😭

Fizzy

“Well I mean it is kind of a nice idea you know? All different people together”. That statement itself from Kendall tells me he made a piss poor attempt to stick up for his kids and actually didn’t make any actual effort to push back on Roman. It felt like ken already made up his mind and to go with Mencken since the beginning of the episode but was just looking for an excuse to go to him and shiv dumbass handed him a lob pass

Marv

There’s no way you mfs have been watching Roshi “for years” and think that he only like non-liberal/democratic views. Like be fucking fr lol. Mind you, this entire show is loosely based on the Murdoch Empire responsible for Fox News. Does that mean anybody who supports even one of the characters is a liberal-hating conservative? It’s a show. Blame any opinions on characters on the people who wrote them.

Saynt Michael

From viewers would never

Hi How are ya

anonymity really has some of you guys moving mad because you would not be acting like this irl. comments acting like they know the entirety of someone's perspective because they've seen a bunch of 30min to 1hr reaction videos online. How would you feel if someone just decided they knew how you thought despite not knowing you at all??? Its just pure ridiculousness

naa

@Sherayasan you are overcorrecting for misogyny towards female characters in one of the instances where there genuinely isn't any. I get being defensive because ppl online trip out over female characters all the time, but ascribing misogyny to roshi with such confidence is giving parasocial. You genuinely crashing out in the comments over this and adding to the toxicity has meant that roshi isn't going to upload the reactions to youtube, so you've played yourself and everyone else who genuinely enjoys this show. Thanks a lot.

naa

You guys need to be nicer, There’s a difference between a nuanced discussion and an outright attack on somebody’s character.

Whoc THE MAN

I didn't know McDonald's was so racist my apologies

Danger Tomato

you guys couldn't be normal in the comments and now you've deprived everyone else from getting a great reaction series on youtube. well done guys.

naa

I just watch the show for entertainment purposes 🤣 dont think im in anyones corner cause they literally all suck in some way shape or fashion.

kingBD

Bro get outta here with that racist ass rhetoric

james culpepper

Don't worry they just mad cuz trump ain't give em more stimulus money for more McDonald's.

Danger Tomato

Yall really hate trump in the comments idk why tho yall took that stimulus and spent it on McDonald's.

Danger Tomato

Shiv does suck and they all suck, picking one over the other is just an opinion

Amos

Don’t let that dumbass get you riled up man they just sick in the head

Amos

You all do not know Roshi personally. You keep comparing Shiv’s actions to her brothers but the difference is that they all suck (like he said) and the writers at least show you moments you can empathize with the brothers. None of that is done with Shiv. Blame the showrunners for that. Not the viewer. That is it. That is all. And I’ve stated how many times I disliked Logan more than anyone. I defended Shiv for some of her decisions throughout the season. A serious percentage of you have some confirmation bias and it is clear. The comments are simply in regards to who is the most annoying to see on screen. It’s not that deep. Blame the writers.

itzsheera

yall got it bruh lmao Im a misognyst raised by WOMEN ONLY that collaborates with MOSTLY female creators with two GIRL children that I empower daily but I also keep Sheera in the kitchen and dont respect women or their feelings and secretly HATE everyone with a vagina. Therefore hating Shiv most, who is an owner of a vagina makes me a misogynist simply because shes a woman. Nothing else. Yeah I think yall are spot on you got me dead to rights lol

YaBoyRoshi

Some of you have some serious confirmation bias and I have said this time and time again. There are SEVERAL moments throughout the show where I have defended Shiv and trashed her brothers. But because this specific episode she got on my nerves MORE than her brothers makes me only like “masculine” women characters. I disliked Logan more than anyone in the show and I made that very clear. You guys keep comparing the things she has done to the things her brothers has done. He clearly said he just finds her more insufferable to watch on screen. You can blame the showrunners for that. They constantly show her doing annoying things whereas with her brothers they at least show you a few moments where u can empathize with them. Lori, Wendy, Cersei and Skylar are all nationwide hated characters not just hated by men. You are meant to dislike them. Just as you are meant to pretty much dislike all of the characters in this show. On love is blind more people were siding with Nick than they were with Hannah. Shiv’s fictional character is very similar to real world Hannah. And we said Nick was worse. So you people simply pick and choose examples that only support your biased opinion because YOU CLEARLY do not know a single one of us personally. And that whole being a fighter makes u have a masculine trait is such an L take. We women (especially black) have been fighting so many of those stupid stereotypes for so long.

itzsheera

Roshi, please bless us with Mr. Robot after this ends.

Gwyn

Did he say “internet buzz words” 🫩 I agree with you. But I don’t think he’ll get it lol. A nuanced convo on the intersectionality of misogyny + male ego and how it can be perpetuated in ways other than name calling and harassing people is just not gonna happen in these Patreon comments with the dude bros. I think he just hates anything deemed “liberal or democratic” in general though. Love the reactions! Just what I’ve gotten taken from them after all these years.

Purple Haze

The comments are killing me 🤣good lord, people calling people names. People labelling people this and that, if someone dislikes your favourite character, does that make them bad? Obviously not. The same goes vice versa, there several takes made by Roshi, Sheera and Lupa that I have agreed and disagreed to. They are all human beings with different perspectives and different opinions, but if you guys don’t wanna respect others opinion, why should they respect yours. All in all great reaction as always 😌

Teejay

Kendall is very accountable. When he committed vehicular manslaughter, instead of alerting the authorities, he fled the scene of the crime, super accountable. Unlike Shiv who hasn’t murdered anyone but she cheated on Tom

Chief Doodle

Nope I disagree with a lot of Shiv takes in the chat and with Roshi about her being the worst. Roman has constantly sexually harassed Gerri without dick pics against her consent(a crime). Kendall’s coke on the iPad which is child endangerment and you know the little fact that he literally committed vehicular manslaughter(the biggest crime of all). But Shiv cheated so she’s the worst. You guys are really saying that her hypocrisy is worse than murder, is that what we doing? You’re saying she’s being selfish for wanting to be CEO when the brothers are doing the same thing and letting in a fascist. Btw I’m not mad that people don’t like her, I don’t like Shiv but the other siblings being deemed as not as bad is a double standard because of that buzz word that rhymes with “monogamy”

Chief Doodle

Oh your a kbot, makes sense

Delgado

FUCK shiv, Danaerys, and Debby from shameless all belong in the deepest DEPTHS of helllllllll

Ss Yonko

That is quite a flawed take. Kendall actively made efforts to ensure that they could get Jimenez and the company, whereas Shiv was working behind their back to tank any chance they had of keeping the company, and when push came to shove, she literally made the decision to value her position in the company over any sort of "greater good" by refusing to do the one thing that would completely kill any need to cooperate with Mencken.

Adude

bro ur spiralling 😭 i havent seen a single comment defending the men, everyone sucks. i agree that there are many female characters that people hold double standards for, but to me she isn’t one of those characters 🤷‍♀️ and no i dont agree w everything roshi has ever said, i dont like a lot of his takes but not liking a very unlikeable character doesn’t make someone a misogynist

QuitCustomise

idgaf what yall say about Shiv, I hope she wins in the end! I always root for the villains lmao.

Samoan Thor

Yeah sure I’m the mysoginist for defending a WOMAN (against y’all coddling and defending men) for not showing favorable characteristics that men tend to uphold more than other feminine traits which tends to be real boxing/fighting/aggression stating a fact that women are not physically forward in aggression more than men are as if yall don’t call ppl pussy on the daily for crying. Sure. Let’s play dumb to make urselves feel like u got a solid point. I’m sure everything Roshi has said is solid to you lol and Kendrick was brought up the second he said i made assumptions abt his real Life when I referenced his pov abt fictional characters when he’s the one who in real life said something condemning abt a reals man life that he does not know. Hypocrisy is the reason. Sorry roshi stans love their reaction but that bs hypocrisy & woah is me bs can slide w a yn but not someone like me. Yall Roshi stans at the level of barbz atp tho Can’t say nothing to this nigga

Sheraya san

Idk in my opinion the fact that Kendall does know what he’s doing is wrong and yet still goes through with it is somehow worse bc he knows he has some form of power to do something about it like how in season 3 he proclaims he would do once he is in power but yet he’s done polar opposite this season.

Marv

Oh brother here we go

Z

This is intellectually dishonest

Danielle

🤦‍♂️🤣🤣

HBK713🏄🏾‍♂️

🤣🤣

HBK713🏄🏾‍♂️

I’ve already accepted that fact we lost Greg but when bruh looked through that glass at Shiv I was dead 😂 that man is so unserious. Nigga stared her down like “yeah she did that shit, Ken” 🤣

Delinda Arts

👏👏👏

HBK713🏄🏾‍♂️

This episode wasn’t relatable in any way whatsoever *nervous laughter turning into sobbing*

Delinda Arts

All the kids are equally terrible imo (but i will always have a special place for sad boy ken-ken)

Maud

I don't think I've ever been so quiet just watching an episode besides laughing my ass off at them staring at Shiv

CAM

idk but to me saying that physically fighting is a masculine characteristic feels more of a misogynistic comment than any of roshi's comments ngl,,,,also wtf does Kendrick Lamar have to do with this

QuitCustomise

I think ppl calling him out in this comment section is gonna make him double down even more. U know how content creators are…

Sheraya san

Issue is when yall put those characteristics solely on her as a reason to hate on her like everyone else doesn’t display that….

Sheraya san

Bruh stop, physically fighting is viewed as a masculine characteristic. Let’s not play dumb & dawg pls miss me u tried on twt to label Kendrick Lamar as a woman beater…

Sheraya san

Kendall cares but he was very honest that the company is more important to him. Shiv says the country is more important to her but it clearly isn't because she doesn't even do the bare minimum of just calling Nate.

RageKage

lol and this isn’t the case for Kendall?

Sheraya san

I think my issue with Shiv is that she really thinks she's smarter than everyone, but time and time again it's proven that she's just as dumb as her brothers. Most of her attempts at strategy and manipulation blow up in her face eventually. She's not the cunning political/corporate/social strategist that she thinks she is. Behind her polished exterior she's a petty, arrogant, vindictive, bumbling child. When you look at their actual track records, Shiv is the second most competent Roy child but she's just barely ahead of Roman.

James Small

These comments are crazy 😂 Roshi squad are labeled misogynists' now because the person they dislike happens to be a woman

Helpy

I'm sort of confused about what she could have done differently that would have prevented ATN from calling the election for Mencken. Nobody disputes that her main motive for wanting Jimenez to win was to allow the GoJo sale to go through, because Jimenez wouldn't actively intervene to block the sale. But let's imagine a different scenario in which she was completely fine with the sale getting blocked by the incoming administration - what exactly would have changed with regard to the ATN call for Mencken in Wisconsin? Mencken told Roman that he would absolutely block the sale if ATN got behind him, which is what Ken and Roman both wanted to happen. Jimenez would not agree to guarantee a block of the sale in exchange for favorable coverage from ATN, so it would have been a crapshoot to stay impartial and not call the state for either candidate. Ken and Roman didn't want to take that chance, which is why they wanted to help Mencken win... what could Shiv have done differently that would have produced a different outcome with regard to ATN calling the state (and consequently, the whole election) for Mencken? Also, to be clear - ATN doesn't have the actual power to literally make someone president. In the real world, Mencken wouldn't actually win Wisconsin just because a cable news channel projected him to win the state. The votes aren't actually certified until weeks after the presidential election, and in the interim, Jimenez would have a team of $1,000/hr high profile election lawyers filing lawsuits in multiple jurisdictions over the burnt ballots, and he'd have a pretty strong case that he would have won the state with those ballots. We're left with the impression at the end of the episode that Mencken is the president-elect, but that's not actually the case, because Wisconsin would be disputed in the courts. I guess my real question is, what exactly could Shiv have done differently to prevent her brothers from giving the OK for the ATN decision desk to call Wisconsin for Mencken? Do you imagine that if her motive for trying to stop them from calling it for Mencken wasn't about trying to get the sale through and really was about her stated fears of what a Mencken presidency would do to the country that Kendall would not have ultimately helped the guy who had promised to give him exactly what he wanted? Kendall didn't seem thrilled by the prospect of Mencken becoming president, but he was perfectly fine with it if it would help him stop Matsson from buying Waystar. He didn't sign off on the call for Mencken only because Shiv's scheming got exposed, he just used that as an excuse to do precisely what he was always gonna do anyway while letting himself feel like he wasn't a bad person for his role in putting a fascist in the White House. He'll tell himself that Shiv made him do it, but that's bullshit and he knows it. No, Shiv didn't make Ken sign off on calling WIsconsin for Mencken. Kendall is an adult human being with agency over his decisions. If he truly was as bothered by the prospect of Mencken becoming POTUS as he pretended to be, he wouldn't have OK'd calling the state for him, regardless of Shiv getting caught scheming. It was very "don't you dare do something that forces me to punch you in the face" behavior from Kendall. He felt conflicted because he knows Mencken's a fascist POS, but he would have ultimately signed off on calling the state for him regardless of what Shiv did or didn't do.

DTGstl314

Hard disagree, but can't really say anymore right now without spoiling shit.

DTGstl314

everyone is terrible, it just comes down to what traits bother you the most in people. shiv isn’t my least favorite but i absolutely get it.

janelle

This episode perfectly encapsulates Shiv's hipocrisy. She's all about the future of the country until it comes time to put the country before her own ambition. She could have easily gotten Jimenez to block the deal and Kendall would have fully backed her but that would mean she doesn't get to be CEO.

RageKage

i can understand hating shiv more out of the siblings because she tries to maintain an air of “progressive, do-gooder, feminist”. this is why s3 kendall “woke-ahontas” bothers me more than roman despite roman being a literal ghoul—it’s the hypocrisy. at the end of the day, shiv chooses her business interests like everyone else, but she can’t handle that it conflicts with her imagination of herself. i always think back to when she convinced that woman not to testify—THAT is who shiv is. refusing to be in a photo with mencken only to give in (but stand a few people away like that’s meaningful). it’s disingenuous.

janelle

54:18 the bottle of wine 🍷

Louis

55:09 kendall wasn’t willing to do something that wasn’t in his own business interests. he looked somber and “felt bad” (“i don’t necessarily feel food about this”) but he was only willing to back jimenez if he promised to kill the deal. ultimately they are all, as always, very selfish (as y’all discussed at the end)

janelle

Surrounded by selfish assholes. What else?

Sheraya san

Cool but Shiv is a messy, selfish, egotistical person so while she can have her fans, having haters should come as no surprise

BindingofNack

Gtfo with all that, "agree to disagree" but you also call them misogynists. As if the character who only ever serves their own interest is somehow justifiable.

BindingofNack

If shiv is the worst character there’s underline mysogony idc cuz I’ve also seen the way yall react to Wendy Skylar etc etc the male characters can be assholes but the second the female character is a bitch y’all label her the worst. Well just agree to disagree abt shiv idc

Sheraya san

Shiv wasnt working at the company until recently to be wanting a CEO spot at least Kendall was plus he’s knows they high key terrible people

Reckless Company

Sheera looking like me I wear a scarf on my head all the time ToT

Sami

Literally all 3 of them are.

Danielle

I actually think it's great so many people hate shiv. She is one of my favorite characters that I felt the need to defend at times because of how hard-core people are about her, but I think that's the point of the character. As the audience we see all these horrible nasty power grabs and moves but somehow majority of people focus on shiv because she has absolute zero loyalty to anyone. I think it's easier to attack and feel betrayal by shiv because we see her hurt tom and her brothers on a personal level over and over again. Every argument I see breaking shiv down to the worst one is never followed by any justified logic or examples. Other than well she hurts people......yeah they all do??????? Hating shiv so much makes it feel like we are adding to the pressure she is constantly under and the reason so many people hate on her is because we see no soft side or weakness like we do with the boys. Kendall season 2 was a broken dog that had us ready to defend our #1 and seeing how Roman actually cares and feels the most out of everyone/afraid and abused he was of his dad. Shiv has tiny cracks here and there but she has no trait that makes us sympathize easily, so ever betrayal feels like from an enemy even if the others do worse. Roman tore up a million dollar check on a kid for fun episode 1 and then we see any power goes right to his head and EVERYTIME someone gets hurt physically/mental/financial when Rome has influence. Kendall lost the plot for his own true addiction of pursuit for the crown but hid behind righteousness of assaulted/murdered victims and mistreated all the woman in his life during the crusade. And Conner was interested in politics form a very young age. Shiv is the most petty and spiteful but she doesn't know how to play any other way. I'm not justifying anyone(aside from lover boy Conner) That being said set tom aside because on some level they deserve eachother, Shiv's brothers are actively trying to cut her out after swearing on their dad. Roman only on deal level and kendall trying to cut all of them out eventually, and screw up mega billion deal for everyone all for what he craves more than his kids IPad, power. All of the kids act in ways that they had to survive their father's "love" unfortunately for shiv her burden is to hurt before she get hurt and always ready to jump even of it destroys any and everyone. They are ALL the worst and I'd dox their info to my boy Luigi in a heartbeat, but I also absolutely love this disgusting bullshit family and all their flaws. Some of my favorite reactions to this show even if we have differences on characters, you guys are always ss tier reactors!

Martez

I’m crying I can disagree with the niggas once in a while 🤣 and who am i simping over? Shiv? I hate her ass too I just can see the clear bias they have against her

Isaiah Cox

Mega Simp. Get out of here bro, unsub. We don't want you here

Kenneth Forbes

But she herself doesn’t see half of the stuff you mentioned as a problem as long it benefits her. She was perfectly fine working w Matt son even though he’s a creep w Ebba. (Spoiler - spoiler - spoiler) Doesn’t have a problem with Kendall killing said kid until the finale @skye

Delgado

Her reasoning is trash for sure, but I think he’s gonna like her doing it cause he wants to see a certain get some happiness or a W for once

Lamaree Jackson

i was talking to mali not u

Skye Brooklyn

I'll only defend Kendall when it comes to the ceo bit because I think he's the only one with the chops and the only one who really wants to do the job.

Futuristic Girl

I do think some people hate shiv because she is a woman. Not all but a lot. I mean Logan is misogynistic, so there is a factor of that in why she kept getting sidelined. But she's also a rich white woman and it's not like shiv is some super feminist person. She's the kind of white woman who will stick by the power structure as long as it gives her the validation she craves. Tom was right when he said her sense of who she is very thin.

Futuristic Girl

mind you I didn't compare her to anyone else. didn't comment on her moral character. but if you want to get into my problem with shiv is she never plays her cards well. idc that she betrayed ken and rome. the way she did it was just dumb, and her fake self-righteousness always trips her up. when Kendall said "I'm the real you" in s3 that pretty much sums it up. and don't get me started on her and tom. she was better off doing her political job.

Futuristic Girl

Um did we forget Ken tried to pretend that he cared about women and was super woke when he wanted to use the Cruises scandal against Logan, despite treating every woman around him like garbage? Talking over and ignoring suggestions from his PR team, firing his lawyer because she disagreed with him, spreading rumors about the female entrepreneurs that they're sluts when they rejected his offer, love bombing the actress from Willa's play and then immediately dumping her and putting her on a plane when Logan didn't approve of her. And that's what I can remember from the top of my head.

LC

I think he will hate her more lol, the judgments here are more so focused on like how she tries to backstab people around her and that's like on full display in the final episode unfortunately

Vyzarde

Everyone else even Logan knew that you have to offer Greg something. Shiv thinks this is still episode 2 and she can just take his last $20 with nothing in exchange. The man was literally like I will work with you if you give me something

sam karanja

DAMN NIGGA FINE THEIR JUST NORMAL MISOGYNISTS IS THAT BETTER??

Isaiah Cox

“shiv lives off spite” but kendall and roman just fucked the entire country out of spite tho

Skye Brooklyn

yup and the others aren’t

Skye Brooklyn

no, choosing to side MORE with mfs who put a nazi in office OUT OF SPITE and further endangering his daughter/niece and done HELLA other bad shit but then u hate shiv who worst actions are being a bad wife and backstabbing her brothers (which is deserved and they’ve done it to her A THOUSAND TIMES) but somehow u can still root more for kendal and roman, then yea i think u have a problem with woman bro. what she did in this episode, shittt this entire series doesn’t compare to what they’ve done yet they continue to get excuse from people so yea

Skye Brooklyn

yep she’s 10x worse than the guy who killed a kid and never took responsibility, put a nazi in office, never cares for his kids, or the mf who sexually harasses everyone, sent pics to gerry, bent over for a nazi, falsified votes. shiv and her sneakiness has got be at the top of the list bro

Skye Brooklyn

Why do I feel like Roshi gonna switch up and be on Shivs side at the end lmao

Lamaree Jackson

Why are you putting quote marks around nazi here?

Maleny

Currently at 17:40, but I'm from Kentucky.

Shiroja

Yea I was one of the people defending her in the comments before I watched the last season.. I completely understand lmao

Z

You guys may hate Shiv but she’s still better than me because if I was her and my brothers (who told me repeatedly they weren’t gonna screw me over) backed a racist sexist fascist nazi for president it would take the lord of Jesus to pull me off both of them.

Jjh

Idk Shiv like a Top 2 character for me. When I hate everyone in the show, I root for the worst of them. Let’s go Cersei

Lamaree Jackson

He literally was though what do you mean? Saying that what you are doing is for the world to your ex when really you just care about what “might” put the company in a better position is literally pretending to be an angel. Like you said he knows he’s in a privileged position as someone with a lot of wealth and can “protect” his kids. The vast majority of people in the US aren’t like him which is why he’s full of shit when he says that to Raava. At the end of the day, the siblings have shown throughout the series that they are all full of shit. They aren’t serious people.

Nexa

There’s literally no arguing that last thing she did 😭 she’s horrible

Mali Howard

That is not him pretending to be an angel though. Like Roshi said in the video, his kids will be all alright no matter who the president is, and he did try to get Shiv to turn Nate around, but she refused.

Adude

Kendall doesn’t pretend to be an angel? I disagree. Isn’t he the same guy who got into argument with his ex and had the audacity to say he does what he does to “make the world safe”. However when push comes to shove we all know he values Waystar above everything. Roman out of the three is the only one who doesn’t try to portray himself as an angel. He’s an asshole and he knows it.

Nexa

Shiv is the absolute worst! Everyone saying that Roman and Kendall helped a "Nazi" become president is so uninformed - someone does not become the president just because ATN said so. In any case, even if they did help him win the presidency, that is a 4-year deal, whereas losing the company is forever. Do not forget that Shiv also literally had a chance to call Nate and at least try to get him on the brothers' side, but she refused to do so because it would damage her own opportunity for "success". With that in mind, Shiv is as much the reason for ATN calling for Mencken as the brothers are. Taking into account all the other questionable things Ken and Roman have throughout the series, yes, they are abhorrent, but they do not pretend to be angels, whereas Shiv is always on some self-righteous BS even though she is also a massive piece of dookie.

Adude

It's medically good for your brain

Jack

Shiv Sucks

BigTastyBets

ding ding ding

Rivaldo McLean

As in it does NOT apply here. I think this all comes down to the acting, Sarah snook is just incredibly good at acting in a way that infuriates you, i feel like she understands how to get to the peak of how much she should make you feel. It doesnt help that she had a horrible beginning with how she made her marriage go down, and how her character was in season one. Imo she definitely was a more enjoyable character in the second half of the show.

Yamin Aqeeli

As in the comment is dumb or the concept of internalized misogyny is dumb?

ChiChiMcGee

Just saw a comment that deadass said “internalized misogyny” can we take a moment to laugh at how DUMB that comment is 😭😭😭💀

Yamin Aqeeli

Kendall helping a nazi get into power being fatherless to two of his kids committed manslaughter continue to be a man child and let his emotion get the best of him and it results into terrible choices and blackmails people and yet shiv is somehow worse because he’s mean to Tom and is a bit of a bitch. God I hope for Ken’s downfall these next two episodes.

Marv

I like Rava Roy and Jess Jordan all the way until the end of the series. I don't think they're actual horrible people even though they are associated with actual horrible people.

DTGstl314

I don't think Roman helped Jeryd Mencken become president because of spite, I think he actually agrees with Mencken's political worldview. Kendall is the one who knows Mencken's politics are deplorable, but he sides with him because he cares a lot more about advancing his own personal agenda with regard to Waystar than he does about standing up against a Nazi. Kendall is one of the billionaires who showed up to Trump's inauguration who you know weren't super comfortable with Trump's social policy agenda (lookin' at you, Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai). Roman is a fucking true believer.

DTGstl314

I think she's also the most self-aware about how the world views her family and why they view her family that way. Like when someone threw a bag of piss on Logan early in the series, while I don't think she would have been cool with it, I think she would be more empathetic to the rationale behind it than any of her brothers - she probably could see herself cheering someone on for doing that in a different world in which she wasn't the daughter of a ruthlesss rightwing billionaire media titan. She probably likes to hang out with wealthy liberal celebrities and go to things like the Met Gala. At the start of the series, she's working as a Democratic campaign strategist for a guy who was obviously modeled on Bernie Sanders, and she doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with her father's company. She's definitely embarrassed to be associated with people like Mark Ravenhead.

DTGstl314

wtf are u even talking about tho? DIAGNOSISING someone with INTERNALIZED MISOGYNY??? that doesn’t even make sense it isn’t something u can diagnose its not a disease tf😭😭

Skye Brooklyn

The depressing truth is that no matter how all of this drama plays out, they're all going to walk away with unimaginable sums of money that they only have because they hit the genetic jackpot. They're all incredibly mediocre people who have convinced themselves of their personal greatness even though none of them has ever done a single thing to deserve being considered great by any standard. Logan Roy is a monstrously evil piece of shit, but the one thing he can say that none of his kids can is that he actually came from nothing and built an empire. His kids haven't built shit.

DTGstl314

Yeah, if one wants to make the case that Shiv is the worst (she's not, even though she is objectively terrible), this is hardly the best episode to point to as a demonstration of that.

DTGstl314

Yeah but she wouldn't give up what she wanted to make sure it happened that's why I said she wasn't that worried about the future of America. Instead of keeping Jeryd Menken outta office by being honest with Kendall she lied.

Jamaal Ellison

Because she knows that she personally will be fine - billionaires always are, regardless of who wins the presidential election. But I still think she'd prefer to be viewed as a MacKenzie Scott billionaire rather than an Elon Musk billionaire.

DTGstl314

Even Connor fully knew he wasn't gonna actually win, but I guess he assumed if he performed well enough it would give him some cachet as a real political player. He probably thought he was gonna be the Ross Perot of this election - win 10-20% of the national popular vote but fail to win a single electoral vote.

DTGstl314

Yeah, I see that one coming from a mile away... but I'll save my thoughts on it for next week.

DTGstl314

Shiv Roy = Ivanka Trump Agree or disagree?

DTGstl314

Right?

DTGstl314

I'm also not sure why everyone thinks Tom is some noble figure. No question that Shiv is the dominant partner in their relationship and she always holds that over Tom in a cruel manner (she's the billionaire, he is not), but he's absolutely kissing this entire family's ass because of his own personal ambitions. He's a striver from Minneapolis who didn't come from this kind of money and desperately wants to be in the club. His offer to take the fall for Logan wasn't based on any sort of sincere devotion to Logan as a person, but rather the belief that kissing his billionaire father-in-law's ass now would pay him handsome dividends down the road. Also, the way he treats Greg it utterly contemptible, and while Greg is hardly a decent person himself, he definitely undergoes a transformation over the course of this series where the more enmeshed he gets with his extended family, the more awful of a person he becomes himself.

DTGstl314

I also question the insinuation that she's objectively more cutthroat than her brothers - Kendall was all about tanking the GoJo deal behind her back while pretending to be in favor of pushing it through. How is that not just as cutthroat as what she's doing? Look, Shiv sucks, but she's just another terrible person in a larger group of people in which pretty much everyone is terrible to some degree or other (except maybe Kendall's assistant Jess - she's great).

DTGstl314

You mean Ravenhead, right? Yeah, those weren't dog whistles, they were train horns. I think he's supposed to be like a fictional version of the lovechild of Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity.

DTGstl314

Snowfall. 🙈🙉🙊

Jamaal Ellison

No comment on what's to come, but for anyone who hasn't seen the series all the way through. get ready for a really bumpy ride that's gonna keep you on the edge of your seat until the very last scene.

DTGstl314

While the episode did really play up the idea of ATN having the actual power to pick the president, they repeatedly pointed out the caveat that they couldn't literally make Mencken president simply by calling the election for him. The Jimenez Campaign would absolutely file lawsuits over the Wisconsin situation (and they would be wholly justified in doing so), and there's a good chance it would have forced a constitutional crisis that wound up in the U.S. Supreme Court. There's no doubt that a city like Milwaukee would have voted overwhelmingly for Jimenez (the vast majority of major U.S. cities always vote heavily for the Democratic presidential nominee), and it's clear that the election was close enough in the state that the burny absentee ballots might have changed the overall outcome. And it wasn't a small number of ballots we're talking about. I think they said it was more than 100,000 votes that got destroyed - for perspective, the actual presidential election in Wisconsin in the last three cycles was decided by fewer than 30,000 votes all three times.

DTGstl314

Shiv's initial desire to push the sale through isn't so much about the billions she stands to make from the sale (she's already living a billionaire's life) as it is about her desire to not want to be associated with the toxic brand of Waystar anymore. When Lukas said he needed ATN to be included in the package, she was all for it because she doesn't like being assocated with a rightwing media brand. She's 2024 Ivanka (as opposed to 2016 Ivanka). The prospect of being named CEO after the acquisition became appealing to her because she felt like she was getting squeezed out by her brothers (which she pretty much was), and I'm guessing she believed the company would have a different vibe once it became the subsidiary of a Swedish media company. To be clear - Shiv as CEO of Waystar, a GoJo subsidiary, would not be completely analagous to Kendall/Roman as CEO of Waystar, an independent company, because if the sale went through and Lukas named her CEO of Waystar, she would still not be "the" CEO - Lukas would still be the CEO of GoJo, which would be the parent company of Waystar. She would still have to answer to someone above her - Lukas. It's kind of like how Kevin Feige is the top dog of Marvel Studios, but he still has to answer to Bob Iger, the CEO of the Walt Disney Company, which owns Marvel Studios.

DTGstl314

Connor is Ron Paul, the kooky libertarian congressman who ran for president in 2008 (and whose shithead son is the current junior U.S. senator of Kentucky).

DTGstl314

Maybe... he definitely gives major angry rightwing incel vibes.

DTGstl314

in my opinion all the roy's are pieces of shit. i don't think shiv is the worst personally. i think roman is because of him being a sexual predator but i can see why shiv is seen as the worst. she is very spiteful and treated tom so horribly and even now that she is pregnant she wants him to feel some way of acceptance after completely destroying him and his feelings like her and roman never have any accountability. at least kendall has taken some accountability for everything he has done or gone through. great episode tho. i always expected this family to just fuck each other till the end anyway lol

Key0

Preach. I don't love Shiv and I agree that she is a scorpion, but... Roman is literally cosplaying as Nick Fuentes in this episode (seriously, watch one of that white supremacist weirdo's YouTube videos - even the mannerisms are the same). Roman would have completely fit in with the Unite the Right white supremacist rally in Charlottesville back in 2017 - he even looks the part down to the alt-right Proud Boys haircut. Kendall's just a fucking sellout. I don't think he's a huge fan of Mencken's politics, but he's fine with helping to put him in the White House if it gets him what he wants.

DTGstl314

Karl wasn't worried about possibly being let go after the merger, it was Hugo who was flipping out about it.

DTGstl314

I'm totally confused about how she could have gotten Nate to give her something that he very clearly told Kendall he was not going to be able to give them. Nate knew Jimenez would never be OK with trading favors in exchange for theoretical favorable coverage from a rightwing news network, and so he shut that shit down immediately. Kendall already tried to get Nate to make a deal to get Jimenez to promise to block the GoJo deal in exchange for more favorable coverage from ATN for the first 100 days, and Nate basically told him to fuck off and abruptly left the party. Nate's not an idiot. It would have been like one of Rupert Murdoch's kids going to the Kamala Harris campaign and telling them that they would make sure Fox News isn't too hard on her if she won as long as she promised to use the power of the presidency to block another company from buying Fox. ATN is who ATN is - they were always in the tank for Mencken, because it's a rightwing news network, and he's the Republican nominee. Nate obviously knows that - he's a political operative working as a top campaign advisor for the Democratic presidential nominee. Anyway, there's no denying that Shiv's main motive for trying to prevent her brothers from calling the election for Mencken was about her own ambitions to be named CEO of the Waystar subsidiary of GoJo after the merger, but I do think she's genuinely bothered by the idea of a Nazi becoming president. She did work as a Democratic campaign advisor herself at the start of the series, after all - she worked for a guy who was obviously modeled after Bernie Sanders. Her personal political leanings have always been pretty clear - she's a Democrat. It's why Nan Pierce wanted her to be named CEO if they OK'd the sale of PGN to Logan back in S2 - Shiv is the liberal-leaning daughter of an unambiguosuly rightwing media titan, and she's the only Roy child that Nan trusted to not let PGN be turned into a rightwing media outlet.

DTGstl314

This episode hits so close to home with the current political landscape, especially during the election season. This brought a shining light, to me at least, to the intense, overwhelming and specifically prevailing, influence that media has over the nation and people as a whole. Yes, they technically have no direct say on what decisions get made or who is elected into power, but the have the ability to perversely invade the general populous with whatever idea or goal they see fit. Always in an effort to push their own agenda, furthering their growth, increasing their profit, growing their influence, all at the expense of the people and what is in their best interest. Their sensationalized perspective, further divides the country, and allows them to spew headline after headline which only attracts more eyes. And at the end of the day, it doesn't affect them because they're either on the side of those who spew hate, or are rich enough to avoid any future issues, protecting themselves from the fire while everyone else burns. AMAZING acting from everyone, 10/10 episode.

maui

Sure but not terrified enough to give up the Mattson deal.

Jamaal Ellison

Shive is bad but not the worst in the series. Roman is a sex pest and Kendall aided in helping a Nazi get into the White House, not to mention literally everything that comes with Kendall lol. Shove gets a bad rep because of her relationship with Tom but worst in the series is a bit extreme when there’s a guy who sent a woman his blood in frozen blocks

PetersThimble

There's no denying that Shiv obviously has major ulterior motives for trying to block ATN from calling the election for Mencken, but I think she also is genuinely terrified by the idea of Donald Menck... sorry, Jeryd Mencken being given the nuclear football.

DTGstl314

I'm gonna assume that Jess's concern when she was talking to Greg about announcing Mencken as the winner is that she's probably not super psyched about her employer declaring a white supremacist the leader of the free world.

DTGstl314

@Delgado people online just love to be diagnosing people with shit it is funny to watch at times lmao

Luke Barnes

oh yall dragging shiv to hell in these comments.. that’s still my baby yall stay safe idk ✌🏾

sfxyor

if they think they hate shiv now 😭😭

Futuristic Girl

This is an absolutely fantastic episode... and it still gives me PTSD everytime I watch it. Especially today, April 3, 2025. IYKYK. Also, Shiv was 100% correct about how the burnt Milwaukee absentee ballots would have gone - Jimenez would have won overwhelmingly, because Democratic presidential candidates generally win major cities by significant margins, even in very red states (Trump won the state of Missouri by 18 points, but Harris won the city of St. Louis by more than 60 points). In a swing state as close as Wisconsin, its highly likely the burnt Milwaukee ballots would have delivered the state to Jimenez. Roman knows it too, but he just wants the Nazi to win.

DTGstl314

God, I can't wait to watch the reaction to the last episode. Need it ASAP

TJ115

Exactly, outside of the main Roy’s everyone else also loves to “exaggerate” their unfavourable position e.g. Karl was very worried about being fired when he later mentions he’s halfway into buying an island with his brother

Delgado

It’s also funny how people ultimately laugh at Connor as they it’s very unlikely he will be president as he came out of the blue with no experience and knowledge - kinda like a parallel to Shiv as a waystar CEO

Delgado

Conner is my boy but I will say it's fucked up that he sold out to the Nazi basically to be sent to a place he could already afford to live. He's a fucking billionaire Also for all the Kendall and Roman put a Nazi in office and Shiv isn't nowhere near as terrible as them discourse. I will say Shiv's just as responsible for it happening as they are. Her dishonesty cost the election and the country is paying for it. Not of them were willing to sacrifice their objectives for the greater good of America. It literally wasn't important enough to let go.

Jamaal Ellison

I agree with you Isaiah but the phrase internalized misogyny applies to women being misogynistic despite being women. It’s just basic misogyny from his end 💀

Danielle

lmao comment to like ratio going crazy again

Sean Taylor

nah all the siblings are bad, shiv is no better or worse. Her methods are more underhanded and snake like, but thats because of the position shes been in for her whole life. The boys and logan never give her the time of day until she has an advantage over them. she's been raised to trust no one and use everyone around her as a tool to achieve her own goals. She's also the only sibling with an active relationship under a microscope the whole show which gives us an even closer view of how fucked she is emotionally. She can literally only talk to people through manipulation tactics. if you look at the big picture, what has shiv actually done to harm people outside of her personal life? Ken and Rome have both committed corporate atrocities in Logan's name in addition to screwing over people theyre close with.

Elijah Leighton

When you argue she is the worst one yes

Danielle

Shiv only cares about getting her way. If she was for democracy she would have called Nate. If she cared about the values she holds, she wouldn’t be in “bed” with Mattson with his abusive relationship with Ebba or coerce SA victim for sake of waystar She always sees herself above others on principle/morals and always loses out by refusing put in hard work on fighting for a meaningful outcome and would rather be complicit. She could have stopped said fascism but in her own self interest swung the election the other way. She couldn’t even negotiate a deal with the likes of Greg which says a lot about her business sense as well as her self serving nature

Delgado

Everyone has said she sucks...they also just know she didn't back a fascist just to get a business deal blocked

Antonio

Atp throw the whole family away

Ernie

You know an election is bad when the end of it feels like the end of Empire Strikes Back. Or Avengers Infinity War for the kids.

Jamaal Ellison

yo i fucking hate shiv and hate her the most out of the siblings like y'all bcuz her behaviours r fucking annoying, but ken went way too emotional there to make the call and forgot to think about his children...like u were already a 'not a good' father and now u made it even worse

Joni

damn the comment section is going ham! more than double of likes lol

Joni

I think roshis thoughts on Kendall’s kids is the best to have, yes they elected a nazi but Kendall has so many recourses to protect them that it’s not crazy to say they wouldn’t even notice, there already driven around to private schools and different vacations homes with personal security details probably 24/7. There filthy rich and never have to work, yes Kendal is an absentee father but they’ve shown that he is there with them occasionally so I don’t see the reason to be scared about the president when nothing he does will ever get close to them cause there in the 0.01%. Kendal is not a good dad but he isn’t a bad one either.

Doodlboop123

So you diagnosed them with internalised misogyny 😭, what does gender have to with it?

Delgado

Shiv is a hypocrite but in some small way she's aware of it. But Rome is still the worst. Kendall is spineless, but Roman backed the a fascist for shits and giggles and pushed hi into the White House just to keep his daddy's company (with spineless Kendall) despite literally everyone but them wanting to sell and get out. M Shiv is her mother. Trying to compete in the boys' club and clawing at a win by any means. And she has hurt people in the process, but never nearly as many people as Roman just did. At least Shiv has had some life experience. Roman treats everything like a toy including the literal country. Also...they literally cut her out of every "sibling" decision so why shouldn't she have gone behind them? She messed up and does act "holier than thou" sometimes but she's far from the worst of the three on a wide scale

Antonio

No I think they have internalized misogyny because in an episode where 2 men voted in a literal Nazi as president they somehow found a way to hate the woman who was trying to prevent that from happening more😭

Isaiah Cox

So because they don’t like a female character that is clearly unlikeable they are misogynistic?

Delgado

Isaiah Cox

The finale is gonna hit Roshi's ass like Franklin Saints crack.

Jamaal Ellison

If Roman didn't have his weirdness about having sex, he'd probably be up there with Uncle Mo.

LC

The irony of this statement, when Kendal and Roman literally put a Nazi in office. Astounding.

Baramus

shiv a narcissist unfortunately 😂

David Larraga

This episode is why the finale was PERFECTION

XORA NICO

That one moment didn’t change anything. This series excels in its consistency of its character writing. For the most part they are all fairly static so while they may have peaks and valleys in their interpersonal relationships for the most part they hit equilibrium fairly quickly thereafter.

Aaron Posey

They're all shitty.. the whole fucking family lol Shiv... all of her flaws are mostly displayed through her marriage with Tom. There's no point in rehashing since y'all pretty much covered everything in the discussion lol. And Rome... needs to be on a fucking registry somewhere. For all his faults though, at least he is the most honest of the three. Kendall... the man got away with murder. He constantly lies to his siblings too. Agreeing with them not to slander their dad and immediately going behind their backs to do it. Hell, he was even doing it while Logan was alive way back in season 1. If anything, Kendall is the one who's tried to backstab the "family" more than anyone. Even this episode, he was plotting to run the company alone without Rome and flat out admitted it to Shiv (and Frank earlier in the episode).

Antoine Cooper

You are right Guav. But now what? She still is inexperienced and no one backs her as including family/board members and the old fox and now on top of that, she’s a woman.

Delgado

I'm on the Shiv is no better or worse than Ken and Rome train, but man watching everything blow up all at once in her face was kind of masterful. She singlehandedly proved that she is nowhere near as smart as she thinks she is by underestimating Greg, telling an obvious, easily found out lie to Ken, and sticking with Mattson even though he's a train wreck and was flaky on promising her anything if the deal went though. Even if she was sincere about what electing Mencken would do to the country (and I do believe she cares about that) it didn't matter, because she burned too many bridges at that point. Just, ouch.

LC

Shiv lives off spite. she didn't want to have a kid until her mom told her she wouldn't be a good mother. as soon as Tom told her the same thing, she announced her pregnancy (only to him). The letter thing airing out Kens business was done out of spite but valid considering Ken messed up her speech.

Delgado

Omg Guav hope you didn’t see my comment but I also misread you cause I be speed reading too much. but apologies if u did

Danielle

Those were just whistles at that point.

Aaron Posey

Man don’t be stupid there were so many times them disregarding her for being a women Logan even fucking admits it himself. Don’t be dense

Guav

ONMEE SHIV MAKES ME WANNA LEAP INTO A POOL OF RADIUM WITH A WHIRLPOOL AT THE CENTRE CONSTRUCTED WITH SPACE WARPING MATERIAL IN AN ISOLATED DESERT IN NEW MEXICO FOR AN EXPERIMENT IN TIME TRAVEL for reasons i shall not disclose

stiles pulsar

I think this episodes shows, after all the times we see their more sympathetic side, how selfish and destructive the Roy’s and the rest of the cast really are.

Pol McGee

Ken should not have to be convinced to not put a Nazi in office? Are you for real rn?

Isaiah Cox

I’m talking about the numerous times people have openly told her to her face her being a woman makes her being ceo impossible. of course there are other factors but in the end she’s still fighting an uphill battle and there’s nothing wrong with her thinking of herself when her brothers do the same

Charmaine

The best sibling is Connor, he’s never done anything of consequence to anyone all he does is be an aloof dummy😂

Ricky Pereira

It’s a huge part of it

Danielle

Only because she’s a woman? Or are there also factors in play?

Delgado

I feel like saying Shiv is the worst after this episode specifically is kinda crazy 😭

Bree

Is it even dog whistles at that point 💀

Danielle

There are always exeptions but comparing Alicent to Rhaenyra, Alicent was more cutthroatwhile Rhaenyra didnt really do anything to the characters we love, Its mostly characters who trying to achieve personal gain by underminding and cutting out the competition/main characters. kinda like Cissy, louie, Cersai, Skylar. They are basically the descriptions of antagonist. So either the writers wrote them with intent evil or we just hateful towards woman.

Ernie

eh I can see being against how shiv does tom but I have no problem with her sneaking behind ken and roman’s backs. she’s working in an environment that looks down on her just bc she’s a woman and she also wants to secure her position just like ken does 🤷🏾‍♀️.

Charmaine

I'm conflicted about Shiv at this point she's completely for selling the company and making literal billions. The Brothers want to keep it to hold on to a piece of their father who wasn't even comfortable with the idea of any of his children running it. Why, because more than likely they'd run said company into the ground. So I don't think she's was necessarily in the wrong. Don't forget Roman and Kendall decided to tank the deal and keep the company behind shiv's back when they'd already agreed to sell. She figured out what they were planning on her own. They broke her trust first.

Jamaal Ellison

wall of text incoming because I love this show lmao i think shiv comes off as the worst because a lot of her awful moments are super personal and spiteful like sheera and roshi were saying. she's very nasty and selfish in her person-to-person interactions to the point you wonder why anyone still bothers to interact with her. I feel like the problem with her isn't that she's doing the sneaky backstabby shit because that's what literally every character does. the problem is that her shit NEVER works. I can't think of a single W shiv has had in the course of the show. logan screwed her over when he promised her the ceo job. tom sold her out to logan and got her on bad terms with him for the last few months of his life. kendall and roman were already making plans to kill the deal without her after they promised she would be an equal partner. shiv is so awful because she does the nasty backstabbing shit and it always falls flat so she ends up looking stupid. it almost makes you want to pity her but then she acts so nasty to everyone that it makes you mad because at least logan was mean and successful. that being said I think that roman might be the worst out of them. he's a very funny character but the things that he says and does are sooo evil. gerri was humoring him (probably because she knew she couldn't do anything about it while logan was around) but he was straight up sexually harassing her. this episode especially really pushed him onto my shit list though. not only was he already buddy buddy with mencken (who straight up said he liked some of hitler's ideas) but then he was willing to sway the election in his favor over a business deal. obviously business is the context of the entire show but when you look at it from a regular perspective that is sooo fucked up. especially since he knows that kendall's daughter could be put in danger. even though kendall is rich, he isn't around his kids that much to be protecting them.

Xylophage

Im so excited to see their opinions on Shiv by the end of the series lmao

13

Shiv is such a fucking bitch

Mark Lowe

Do you hate that someone like her is in the show or do you not like her as a person? I think you just dislike her, which is very fair. But i do appreciate her character even if i wouldnt want to be around her at all

DarquanJr

Yeah there's that. i listen to Shiv talk and want nothing to do with her but as soon as she turns around I immediately think of ways I could fix her.

Jamaal Ellison

Shiv sucks cause she’s a hypocrite but the worst thing she has done 1. Be a horrible wife to her husband 2. Backstab her brothers who also backstab her 3. Convinced a SA victim not to talk. It’s the shitiest one on this list, but I believe that woman received a huge payout and in the end she will be better off as messed up as that is. Now compare that to backing a nazi into presidency and the severity of that act. Especially when we see how that’s playing out in this country in real fucking life. None of them will suffer from the consequences either.

Danielle

Surprised they didn’t comment on the racist dog whistles the Macon guy was spouting, he straight up said some fascist shit 😭

DJ Muldrow

Mhmm

angel

Kendall and Roman were always going to put a Nazi in office. Shiv just gave Kendall a reason to justify it. Instead of him doing it because he doesn't care about his children and selfish/wants to keep the company. He can now say he did it because Shib betrayed him and lied. He has zero backbone

1997

She's not a saint. In fact, she is a bad person. But to act like she's the worst is crazy. They are all bad but in comparison the reasoning Roshi has for her being the worst isn't the stuff with the SA. It's just because Kendall and Roman are more upfront about their terribleness and bc she is more cutthroat and spiteful. That's silly

1997

Lupa cmon bro. You just realized how much the news interfaces with politics in swaying the narrative and elections?

Aaron Posey

Literally every comment discussing is loaded with caveats and qualifiers ("I know she sucks" "she's a hypocrite" "she's done terrible things") because they knew people would come at them for even mildly defending her... AND STILL people are like "Oh so you're saying Shiv's a saint?" you gotta laugh sometimes

jerry

Probably wouldn't be a nazi in office if shiv told the truth. Instead of saying all the bs to Ken like his a good guy and what not, if shiv would have been like I can't tell you what to do and I can't tell you what Nate and Jimenez is going to do just go with your gut Ken I bet my life savings Ken would have went Jimenez shiv sucks all she do is betray and lose and now she ends up like her mom just losing every battle she is in at the end of the day something she never wanted to be

Kk

Kendal can feel hurt by Shivs betrayal all he wants but to let that motivate you into agreeing to call an election for a literal nazi. He dgaf abt his brown daughter or nobody but himself. The same thing applies to Shiv, but the consequences of their actions don’t match up at all

Danielle

Also posted this as a reply but since the Shiv debate seems to be dominating also wanted this to be its own comment: One thing I've noticed from years in comment sections, message boards, etc. about movies/TV is that people tend to hate hypocritical characters even more than characters who are objectively 'worse' but are more unabashed about who they are. This goes way beyond Roshi and Shiv, I've seen it so many times with a bunch of different examples. Yes sometimes it's colored by gender (saw someone comment a Sopranos reaction on here that Carmela is "just as bad" as Tony, gtfo) and sometimes it's not. If I had to guess there's something about characters who feign righteousness but still commit bad acts that feels closer to reality and to ourselves than characters who are like "Fuck It, say hello to the bad guy." Of course this could all just be psychobabble idk But when I see people say Shiv is the worst of these characters (not 'as bad' but THE WORST) like yeah I think there are reflexive biases at play. Like Roman is literally cackling about how electing a Nazi is just good TV and Kendall shrugged at his own daughter's fears and his own conscience ("it's a nice idea right, everyone living together") if it even gave him a chance at keeping his bauble.

jerry

Uh huh

Yimmy Yurner

a good point!

anna

Now that I think about it, Shiv probably never forgave Kendal over that 'Rape me' incident. Cause her letter was really a consequence of Kendal doing that. They have never properly acknowledged that moment cause that really changed the tone of their relationship.

Metweet .c

I read it as people have a very emotional reaction to Shiv. The way I see it, Shiv is EASILY the most guarded of the siblings, she refuses to let herself show weakness because she's a woman, because feelings are a weakness that can be exploited. She's constantly hiding her real reactions, any time she's uncomfortable she walks away or hides her face. She's self important and is a raging hypocrite like her brothers. But I think what makes her so hateable is that she doesn't show any of her real emotions and doesn't do anything likable. She can't afford to be earnest, dumb, or expressive ever because she's a woman, so the audience never forms a connection with her like they do with Kendall. We all root for him even though he's probably caused the most harm of the three. Because at least him and Roman are sort of charming and sort of honest.

Danielle C

Why the comments acting like Shiv a Saint. Wasn’t she the one who went to the coerce the SA victim not to testify?

Delgado

One thing I've noticed from years in comment sections, message boards, etc. about movies/TV is that people tend to hate hypocritical characters even more than characters who are objectively 'worse' but are more unabashed about who they are. This goes way beyond Roshi and Shiv, I've seen it so many times with a bunch of different examples. Yes sometimes it's colored by gender (saw someone comment a Sopranos reaction on here that Carmela is "just as bad" as Tony, gtfo) and sometimes it's not. If I had to guess there's something about characters who feign righteousness but still commit bad acts that feels closer to reality and to ourselves than characters who are like "Fuck It, say hello to the bad guy." Of course this could all just be psychobabble idk

jerry

you know they were mentioned in ‘good tweet bad tweet’ at least once, and at least five viral kendall hate tweets during the events of season 3.

anna

oooo Umbridge vs Voldemort is a great way of putting it. I think Kendall is actually probably the most volatile and likely to cause harm to himself and others out of the kids. But man, Shiv's hypocrisy and attitude just stinkzzzzz

Danielle C

i bet you poo_crave on twitter has made a post about kendall before

angel

do you think there is twitter hate accounts for each roy family member

angel

i never understand how people say shiv is worse than the people putting a nazi in office, unless ur just sucking toms dick

iMovie stars

Kendall can't find it in him to even stay in touch with his kids, instead yelling at Rava every chance he gets about how busy he is. And Rome's an actual sexual offender at this point, sending Gerri dick pics after she told him to stop multiple times, then when confronted refuses to admit he's wrong.

KomodoughDragon

i’m not confusing anything. some of the reasons they have for describing her as insufferable are she’s most immoral. that’s why i mentioned both personality and actions. and in both cases, i still don’t get it.

anna

i’m crying y’all so 😭 i’m quoting a stupid ass idris elba meme because of the comment section be calm

angel

Always ready to join a good ole Shiv hate train. They all suck, but she really loves going extra hard to always be the biggest hypocrite.

terrakion.is.good

oh scary

angel

because men are allowed to be terrible but still be liked and women are not…cuz ya know

angel

Wha

Aquaaua

The expectations on women are higher. Boys will be boys mentality saves a lot of male characters from the same level of criticism.

KomodoughDragon

Yeah it is a difficult thing to even compare really because one person is absolutely horrible to the people closest to her while the others are trying to instill someone in office that will fuck over anyone that's not part of the wealthiest elite. Not to downplay Shiv being a bad person in her own relationships, but I don't think the scale of things are comparable. It's just easier to dislike Shiv because she has more scenes where she's visibily awful to Tom, and because the consequences of the others' actions aren't ever shown on-screen

KomodoughDragon

TEAM KENDALL

Tancho22

learn to sit back and observe not everything needs a reaction.😗

angel

you are confusing morality with someone being insufferable, someone can be a morally superior person but be twice as insufferable as the "better" person

JHaze

Aside from misogyny, I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that Shiv could really change things if she actually cared. This is all about for her. If she actually cared about the country as a billionaire in the room while they're electing a fascist she could go public with evidence and clap the whole thing but she won't. It's all just grandstanding and that makes me hate her in particular (and her abuse of Tom. He's awful but the way she treats him is wild)

ChiChiMcGee

yea not the two mfs that put a nazi in office…

Skye Brooklyn

THIS is the episode that made me root against them really. i wanted them to lose every-fucking-thing. pleading that the deal go through and that they somehow lose all their money. GET THESE SELFISH ASS BITCH NIGGAS TF OUTTA HERE BRO

Skye Brooklyn

Welcome to the Revolution Roshi.

Jamaal Ellison

Shiv def the worst option for CEO. Roman is just indifferent to a lot of things Kendall’s whole life revolves around waystar and would be more attractive as a CEO to shareholders out of the 3 siblings.

Delgado

I agree all the roy siblings are aweful. But shiv is on the top of my list of most worst characters.

Rissa2003MM

Shiv always been insufferable bro but she still thick asl😭 and they all shit

xProKnockz

May they all FUCK OFF

HBK713🏄🏾‍♂️

1000% yep!! not to mention kendall killed someone and roman blew up a rocket also almost killing people. could you imagine the reaction if shiv did these things? and yes it is hard because people will swear up and down that it’s not because she’s a woman but shiv does get a ridiculous amount of hate compared to her brothers, even being described as the ‘villain’ of the show. and so at a certain point you do have to wonder why her specifically. similar with almost every show on tv - always a disproportionate hate towards female characters.

anna

interesting

angel

Yall are literally living in a country that is going through the consequences of electing a nazi. And SHIV is the worst? Get the fuck out of here. Kendal has yet to face the consequences of involuntary manslaughter and Roman is roman.

Metweet .c

don’t forget louis in snowfall and mai ling from warrior

Skye Brooklyn

Because we know men are born scum, so when a woman acts like a man (scum of the earth) she gets lit up.

Conk

I love these type of debates so nobody take anything personally. I find it all fascinating. They’re all awful. I don’t like any of them, but it’s wild to say Shiv is the worst out of her siblings. Roman literally tried to help a fascist get elected and has a long history of being creepy with Gerri. Kendall killed a guy—manslaughter or not—and completely ignores the emotional needs of his own kids. Both of them tried to screw over the deal and lied to Shiv first, but because they’re more openly messy, somehow Shiv gets painted as the worst? She’s mean and petty, but her family rarely respects her or includes her in anything. Shiv isn’t a good person, I’ll admit that. In my opinion, Kendall ignoring his autistic son’s and Indian daughter’s genuine fear about a literal Nazi being elected—just to push a deal through—is just as cruel as anything Shiv did, whether it’s telling Tom about the pregnancy at a strategic moment or writing that letter about Kendall. People act like Shiv crossed some moral line, but Kendall did that with his own kids. That kind of emotional neglect, especially when it’s about something as serious as their safety and future, is brutal. Kendall and Roman might be more upfront about being terrible people, but that doesn’t make them any less awful—especially when the things they’re doing aren’t just self-destructive, they have real, far-reaching consequences. We’re not just talking about family drama or personal betrayals here—they’re playing games with fascism, enabling dangerous leaders, and making choices that could wreck the entire country. Just because they’re loud about being toxic doesn’t mean it’s somehow more honest or forgivable. Being a mess in the open doesn’t make the damage any less real.

1997

It’s the fake act she has she acts like her shit doesn’t stink a lot of the time

MrGuy3000

I personally love shiv, she’s my favorite, but I can understand why you dislike her. A lot of people don’t get that you can understand where a character is coming from 100% but if they’re annoying/aggravating it doesn’t matter. It’s the Voldemort vs Umbridge thing. I think Roman and Kendall have done infinitely worse things then shiv but shiv is so high and mighty it just becomes annoying sometimes. But I still love her

MrGuy3000

It's really just because she's a woman. It's not super overt sexism because Shiv genuinely sucks, but if you stack up her actions vs Ken and Roman's, she's on par if not more likeable. I think it's simply a combination of Shiv's constant self-assuredness (vs Kendal and Roman's wavering up and down levels of self-confidence) combined with the fact that it's just that bit much easier for people to hate women in general. I think people take offense to being called out for more covert subconscious biases, but there really is no explanation for why she gets SO much more hate compared to her brothers. There's nothing she does that is worse than Ken and Rome's Nazi apologia. On a relationship level, she and Tom are obviously bad but miles ahead of Rava and Ken, especially with his children. Rome is also seen to be weird as fuck with Gerri, Tabitha, and that woman from episode 1.

NiToTheNah

right!!

Kyla B

ive been screaming this into the VOIDDDD

Tyler

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tyler

THIS PARTTTT!!!!!! LIKE HOW IS IT EVEN DEBATABLE?????

Tyler

Well they are all horrible people, the show points that out. I just think I never see as much hate for Kendall and Roman as I see it for Shiv. I just dont understand how she is worse than the other two.

Kris Khachikyan

Just cause other people are doing something worse does not make the thing you do not bad because of comparison. They all suck and all doing messed up shi. Shiv was just the highlight of this ep. But i really think we all disliked logan 10x more and if you don't ur weird cause bro was actually into sum evil shi not even just by association. So yes shiv IS a bad person like her entire relationship with tom is weird asf and is only gonna end badly.

Indifferent Denji

shiv is the worst and i love her for it lol her character is so well written and sarah snook plays her so well

jiggyj

i have never understood when people say shiv is the most insufferable. i don’t know if it’s based on personality, actions, or both. but i have never believed she is ‘more’ awful than her brothers. i find that untrue. her actions aren’t more terrible. the stuff her brothers do is insane. i don’t understand why her moral character is judged more strictly than her brothers. i also don’t understand why this season in particular - because this was probably the season where i was most sympathetic, as difficult as it is to be sympathetic. then again this is just my opinion! but also giving kendall the benefit of the doubt this episode…lol pls

anna

Or its just more common place to think men are scumbags so it's not as upsetting lol

VibeWolf

Roman and Kendall take accountability?? Since when? Kendall cant even own up to being a shitty father

Kris Khachikyan

it’s just easier for people to hate women than men

anna

SUPERMAN SNEAK PEAK OUT . Just spreading the word

AZU

Its okay to hate woman for being woman Roshi! 😛

Conk

Why is the writing for woman so effective to making us hate them? Cersai, Skyler, Cissy. these people suck but so does the men, everyone sucks in succession but they still make up for their charm..

Ernie

thank you bro like i’m truly not getting it

Skye Brooklyn

I don't understand why people hate shiv more than roman and kendal. They literally put a nazi into office

Metweet .c

The brothers helped a Nazi become president because of spite and Shiv is the bad person? She was only going behind their back because they sidelined her when they became CEOs

Kris Khachikyan

no they don’t. they have literally never taken TRUE and GENUINE accountability for anything ever. name me one time they took genuine accountability and it wasn’t “sorry…. so anyways”

Skye Brooklyn

i think the thing about Kendal and roman, though, is that they take ACCOUNTABILITY for their shi, even if it's in their own way. Shiv does not most of the time, and for most people, that aspect is a huge factor in how they feel about you. Everyone makes mistakes and has selfish tendencies, but not being natural enough to admit that and try and do better is the issue. At the very least, we've seen moments where ken and rome do admit fault (rome less than ken, but still)

Indifferent Denji

all of them are bad I agree I just like Shiv as a character, and she still is one of my favorite characters. Even though she makes bad decisions, idc I love her still I guess

Kyla B

i'm drunk ignore this rambling

420deepthroat

I never get Shiv hate. As in hating Shiv so much more than other characters. Aside from maybe her shitty relationship and with how she treats Tom. But business wise she's always been in the most difficult spot. She's a woman... just saying it 100% has an impact on how people treat you in that business and the opportunities you get, Logan even said so to Shiv's face in season 2. Also only being let in like a couple years...? ago. it's not like Ken and Roman ever stand behind her. They pretend to be and then cook up their own scheme. And when she was like Boss? or whatever in season 3 no one ever listened to a thing she said. Also Roman is so much worse. Always has been, from the first fucking scene in the first fucking episode of the first fucking season i could immediately tell how fucking fake he is, he can be funny but i hate that mongrel. Whenever people hate Shiv so specifically i'm like damn, i must be a fucking feminist because she ain't perfect but Ken and Rome are just as bad if not worse... they are worse.

420deepthroat

forget shiv kendall helped a nazi become president despite what his daughters going through

dom

I cant hate on cake roshi different

Danger Tomato

i’m just mind boggled rn low key. so roman and kendall are literally putting another trump in office AFTER rava told him that his daughter could suffer if menken and ravenhead win but that’s all fine and doesn’t further diminish THEIR characters but shivs puppeteering makes her worse HUHHHHHH???? u say it’s nonsense but yall got a little misogyny going on bro and yall just dismiss it all the time

Skye Brooklyn

Lmao the only reason why shiv pmo cause she can’t accept accountability in the destruction of her relationship. Her being a slight hypocritical moral high ground progressive doesn’t bother me at all, but she genuinely thinks her shit doesn’t stink.

Who Knows

nah bro idc yes it has to be bc she’s a woman roshi. bc kendall and roman are absolutely FUCKING INTOLERABLE on another kind of level they’re literally about to make a mini hitler president for their own personal gain but shivs worse bc she’s what… SNEAKY?? nah miss me with that. kendall and roman are making decisions that are actively making the company and the country worse but somehow that doesn’t worsen their character in your eyes??? bc i don’t see yall saying fuck rome and ken as much as her and they do just as bad if not worse things so what other choice is there but to assume it’s bc she’s a woman my guy? ngl a lot of the time if yall HATE a character a lot of the time it’s a woman

Skye Brooklyn

Shiv is the worst she remind me of Coco Chanel, u know the woman who slept with nazis

Ernie

She's a scorpion she can't help but sting whoevers helping her even if she suffers too

James

it’s a testament to the writing that it took this long tbh

Ron H

1000% agreed. This season you’re getting to see the siblings worse qualities get the best of them. Shiv trying to puppeteer everyone only to have it blow back in her face. It’s beautiful to watch.

Robert Blackett

Yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Hasnain Khan

I've also disliked Shiv the most out of the siblings. I have many reasons as to why, but damm, I thought she would get some development, but she stayed the same sighhh

SirCapAlot

Yeah by the end of it it's hard to like any character. I think these last few episodes really help us see just how people like the Roy children actually impact the world. Regardless of their personal crap it's hard to like any of them once you see that

ChiChiMcGee