Post-Release Structure of Patreon Tiers

I would also love a link if you know of anyone building starfinder assets.

Hi Jezabell, there are not assets which are available exclusively for Patreon supporters (YET) although that is a plan to start providing beginning in June.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hi, I am Jezabell on Discord. I payed for the license and was just wondering, if I do a 10$ tier now, is there already other maps and assets available from being a Patreon member? I have been seeking stuff online, but new to this style.

Good options. I think it would be neat to have some kind of "macros" that could be added. So things that don't need a full fledged module, but normally wouldn't even be needed in the base.

Jon

Hey Greg, I'm not sure I'm understanding your question. Are you familiar with how module management currently works within Foundry? The current setup seems a lot like "incorporation of modules so they can be downloaded and used natively" - but I guess you have something else in mind or you wouldn't have mentioned it. As for being vocal about what priorities and deadlines are - that's a process that I'll start after release - the next very public deadline is as I'm sure you know, May 22.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Is it possible to see the incorporation of the modules so that they can be downloaded and used natively? Something like the steam workshop or NMM? Many of the functions made available by mods I feel should be core components within Foundry. Is there any motivation or plan to do post-release updates for such features? I plan to continue supporting the project for as long as there are mods/development on the project. I'd really like to see planned deadlines on features for an actual return on that investment so I don't feel like I'm just throwing money into a black hole.

Greg

(sorry if this has been addressed, I only read the last ten comments or so) I plan on jumping to the Champion tier, just because I love Foundry and want to continue supporting it, but I'll probably end that in August when grad school starts up and I have books to buy (sorry!). I am curious though about the system you're developing and would be interested in joining again in like a year when school's over. My question, though, is if information/updates about that project will filter to those below the Hero tier, even if not the system itself. Is that something you think is on your roadmap?

Thanks for your thoughts Robert, I've responded to many of the above comments that you reference, so my responses there may be of interest to you as well. There is a lot more I'd like to do with Patreon eventually - but the most important thing for me is that I make promises with Patreon that I can actually stick to and deliver on while still keeping my core focus on ongoing VTT and D&D5E system improvements. I know the proposed Patreon offering is not that thrilling - but I don't have the capacity to offer much more than this (yet). For the most part the design of post-launch Patreon is an appeal to the generosity of the community rather than a proposal for a balanced exchange of value. It will certainly evolve over time, and I'm open to feedback!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Thanks for the comment, and I understand. Delivering on the commitments I have made to the community is really important to me - and I'm proud that I've been able to do that (for the most part). In fact, not wanting to make promises or commitments that I cannot keep, is the main reason that the post-launch Patreon tiers are not more exciting. I need my #1 focus to be continued improvements to the core software and the 5e system, and those aren't things that I can gate behind Patreon. I'm restricted to making the Patreon benefits things that I can manage on the side without getting in the way of core development.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hey Matthew, thanks for the thoughtful comment. It's certainly a risk - but I have thought carefully about this and I feel optimistic about the future for Foundry VTT. With the quality of the product - and all the future improvements that can still happen, I think that if license sales start to meaningfully slow it will only be because there is already a very large community of users of the software. If that is the case, that will be a large community that will (hopefully) be willing to pay for additional or premium side projects down the line. I'd love to have a clone, if you happen to have Simulacrum in your spellbook. That would allow me to get a lot more done!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Good thoughts, that's pretty much what I have in mind - you'll get access to a bundle of assets that are ready to use in FVTT. I do want to avoid anything that feels like a paywall.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

That makes sense, I expect many current Patreons will feel this way. I know the benefits post-launch are much less than what is offered now. Patreon was originally intended just as something to use until launch, I didn't expect it to grow so large - it would be a mistake for me to shut it down entirely - but I fully expect the size of my support here to shrink. I just hope it's shrinking because people are buying software licenses instead :)

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hey Apostol, thanks for your candid feedback. I realize that the Patreon tiers are not that exciting. I want to emphasize the reason for that though: My #1 priority after release will continue to be the continued development of the FVTT core software and the D&D5E system. There is a lot more I want to do there, and those improvements are my primary focus. They will be released to everyone (who owns a FVTT license) free of charge. I will have some time outside of working on the core software and 5e to do some side projects - which I can incorporate as Patreon perks - but those definitely are SIDE PROJECTS - so it's never going to be as exciting as the main software updates themselves. I don't expect the Patreon tiers to appeal to people who were supporters before launch for the purposes of getting access to the software. It's just the reality that there's not much I can do to make this more exciting without taking time away from things that are (ultimately) more important for everyone.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Good questions, lack of clarity on some of these points is my fault. Hero #2 would be more frequent than Champion #4, but also of a somewhat lower quality or scope. The homebrew system is something I'm going to be building for myself - I debated not listing it here at all (perhaps I shouldn't have) - but I think it will be pretty cool so I'm happy to share it with Patreon supporters who may or may not be interested in that sort of thing. - You're right about Legend Tier being mostly a statement of goodwill rather than a tangible set of rewards which can justify that price. There isn't anything I can offer right now that really does justify that price except the satisfaction that you are making a strong statement of support for a project that you care about. I don't expect to have many supporters at this level, and it's OK!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

No worries, thanks for the Patreon support prior to launch!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

That would be awesome, I'll certainly be trying to work out this sort of collaboration or partnership if possible!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

I want to see this collaboration become possible, the willingness is definitely there from the Foundry side - I think what will make a difference is how many people in the Deios community vocally ask for Foundry to be included :)

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

We've discussed this in Discord - but I don't want to restrict access to test builds based on Patreon support because: 1. No feature access gating was always a promise I made with this project 2. I want lots of people to have access to testing the new builds as getting feedback is really important, so I don't want to restrict the size of the population who is eligible to test.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Fair points tim, it's hard for me to design compelling benefits because I really don't want to over-commit. I agree that the $10 tier is likely to not be appealing to many people (and that is fine!)

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

It's something that Dimitris from WA and myself both want to accomplish - that work has not begun yet, but I know Dimitris has been working on the beginnings of an API so I would expect to see integration coming here soon!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hero tier map releases would be more frequent - maybe 1-2 a month vs. the collaboration projects which would only be every few months.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hi Michael, good point, although the concept of the "early adopter" $3 tier really only applied from Alpha through launch. In effect - the pre-launch tiers are over and new post-launch tiers are arriving. I'm just keeping the price points the same for simplicity but all tiers will be open (including the $3 one) for people to choose between. I hope that the length of your support pre-launch has been taken into account in both the discount you received on the license and the (reduced) amount that you have needed to pay in order to access the beta software.

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Thank you Ken, really appreciate your past, present, and future support!

Foundry Virtual Tabletop

Hello Atropos, I'm a latecomer to this Patreon, but I thought it important enough to support as part of the Hero tier. My discount off the purchase price is minimal and that's fine and fair compared to those who have supported you long term. I'm truly happy that the product is going to be released, that it will be a one-time purchase, and that your long term supporters may end up paying little to nothing at all. That's wonderful! I mention the above because I wanted it to be clear that it does not factor into my lack of enthusiasm for the current continuing plans for this patreon, especially the Hero tier. Having read the comments above, I know I'm not alone in being less than enthusiastic about supporting development of yet another roleplaying game system as part of this Patreon. That feels like it should be a completely separate Patreon, should you wish to do so. I don't begrudge you wanting to work on it at all. But other than the support for it in the system, it feels like it is outside the scope of this. Maybe it's just the nature of how the Patreon system works. It's still admittedly rather new to me. While new maps are potentially interesting, there are also a glut of maps available out there already, both free and otherwise. I'm not sure of the value proposition there on an ongoing basis. If you were able to solidify that collaboration with another mapmaker, that would definitely be more interesting. Honestly, I think you would be better served removing the Legends tier altogether and moving the "brainstorming" piece to the Hero tier. And among the topics for discussion and/or polls would be support for additional systems not already included. I would primarily be using it for D&D, but I'm sure there are games not listed here that people would consider important enough to remain in the Hero tier. Finally, are there any plans for obtaining more than SRD access to the D&D rules system? I do not know what that entails but, at the present time, it's one of the areas where Foundry falls short against Fantasy Grounds and Roll20, making it harder to convince others to use it. Perhaps (further) collaboration with the developer of the Beyond20 extension or, at the very least, well written documentation on how to run a game using the extension within Foundry might be worthwhile and something worth further support. It may also prove to negate the limitation of the implemented SRD-only D&D ruleset. Thank you for the marvelous work you have done so far! I hope you will take my comments in the spirit that they were intended, that being finding a way forward that would provide value on both sides.

Love the product I've supported, appreciate the commitment to fulfilling promises in development. However, with this pledge structure, I have to say I'm not really interested in continuing. I'm just not pledging to this project for map packs and things of that nature. I would definitely love to continue supporting if the pledge included access to bleeding edge builds and future features. Basically keeping the same structure as is now, but with future features. I know you know more about the financial prosperity of the project, but that seems like the best way to ensure continued development of the program.

I think many of us have supported you based largely on our faith that you could deliver on the great platform we have and on the promise you would not backpedal one the simple, single payment commitment. I am thrilled you are adamant about avoiding paywalls and subscription schemes. That said, the single payment business model is a risk and the revenue stream slows quickly. I envisioned your Patreon post-release as a significant factor in further enhancement and support and being able to vote and discuss and guarantee the improvement is what I want most. Post-release I want to know what you’re working on and would stay a Patreon to chime in more directly than in a support form or general Discord. I don’t care about custom content and maps because like others I’m supporting them too and we all like different things. The one thing your Patreons all share is joy in your platform and expanding capabilities. So I’d leave off with other patreon partnerships (as a perk) and content. I will be in a minority, but I vote that you have a post-release tier of $3 to get updates and voting rights on the development pipeline. Beyond that, people can pay more to show their inspiration and appreciation for the work. I understand those who want to pay more but get more in return, but I think in this case that Patreon, like your licensing, can be beautiful in its simplicity. Sidebar: if there was a tier where we could clone you and get sexy features developed faster ... :). You don’t want employees but my list of useless bling (“custom skins mod so the UI looks like KITT!”) is ridiculous. You could also keep VTT simple but for big supporters work them into your new game system. If I pledge at the $10 for VTT, can the Odin deity of your new world be called Halnon? jk. Not kidding :0. Sorry so long everyone.

Matthew Halnon

Another thought - I like the partnering angle with 3rd party asset providers. I could see remaining at a pledge tier with a "humble bundle" type of arrangement for maps, tokens, sounds, etc. I don't think paywalling modules or functionality is a good idea for your long-term business model however.

excel

Personally i don't see the mentioned patreon content to provide benefits on a scale that makes it worthwhile for me staying one. Personally i was more hoping for some advanced modules and features added through patreon that would actually add a value that would be to unreasonable to maintain through a one-time purchase software only. Lets see what the final setup will be and judge that. No matter what you created a great piece of software that everyone should buy. :)

I think the problem is not the $10 cost but the fact that the $5 has very little to offer to people who aren't interested in maps and adventures.

Apostol

Hello Atropos, I am not disappointed by your future plans but I am also not very excited about them. I am a 5$ Patreon at the moment and I wanted to remain such as a huge THANK YOU for revolutionizing the VTT world with an extremely cheap and open solution that outclasses all competition thanks to its community. However, I feel like the new offerings either push me to the short end or towards the top end. The 5$ threshold seems to be underserved by contracted content that many of us already have by funding other map artist Patreons or having too many published RPG systems to look for another homebrew. It just appeals very little in this crowded content oversupply world, and while people may be excited to see what it offers at first interest will wane if most people use nothing or very little from these content offerings. I would have been super excited if the 5$ pledge supported further development of side projects like new mods that push the boundary and showcase new API, contracting the creation of interface skins (like what WFRP4 has created), a quantum roll service that provides clients with active Patreon pledge seeds for even better randomization, or similar side projects. Maybe that is too much for 5$ but if such plans were announced for the 10$ I would have moved up in a heartbeat. Sorry if my post is overly negative but I wanted to be honest that currently the 5$ threshold just doesn't appeal as much.

Apostol

I'm very pleased with your plans so far. I really like that no FVTT features are hidden behind any Patreon tier, that is the good way to go. You managed to add some good intencives there,for the 3$ ad 5$ tiers, with the new content. Some feedbacks: - Difference between Champion.4 and Hero.2 is not very clear. Is it the same type of content and if not, what's different ? Are they delivered at the same frequency? More of my "personnal taste" feedbacks: - As much as I am curious about a homebrew designed for VTT, I'm not sure it is a good incentive. Most players play a system they know or (less frequently) their DM's homebrew . I think most of them would not be very interested about a new homebrew, curious yes, but not willing to pay 6 months for that. Maybe an more detailed explanation could get me hooked. -As it is, Legend tier is designed for the people of good will. I can understand that. However some people like me are willing to give that much, but not without any strong benefit, and it is difficult to quantify our effect on FVTT development (and Legend Patreons might not be the best suited people to take development decision on your software). Then some ideas for my last 2 items: - In addition to Hero.3 : While you develop your new homebrew, you provide some tutorial videos / text about how to create a similar system project, as well as some easy-to-use pieces of code that add a functionnality (for your homebrew) and are easily reusable for any other system/homebrew dev. That way, Hero Patreons will get access to your homebrew AND gain power to develop their own. The idea is that if system dev is easy, FVTT will become the ultimate platform. Tutorials and code snippets could be provided to the whole community, but consider giving something more to Hero Patreons (1H online course / 2 weeks about system dev ? :p) - Hero.3 : maybe vote polls for your homebrew dev ? - Legend.2: Instead of having an impact of dev (or in addition to), vote polls for future content creation that will come to Champion and Hero tiers. Example: I want more Sci-fi maps and items compendiums ! Enough of Fantasy ! :)

Djerom

So long and thank you for the fish!

ScarSacul

A partnership with Heroic Maps could also reap dividends - their battlemaps are awesome

Ian Brockbank

Now would be a perfect timing to board the Project Deios ship, wouldn't it? ;-) This way your patrons could have access to more maps, discounted access to PD and/or World Anvil, etc. In my humble opinion, Foundry VTT + World Anvil + Project Deios could for sure become the ultimate combo for all TTRPG players and GMs around the world! Of course, no partnership is needed for us to use them complementarily, but a well-thought and seamless integration of the thee products could prove even more useful. Just saying... :-D

NoBSip

I think making continued beta access (for in-development features, after release) a Patreon perk might be a good idea. Some people really like having *the bleeding edge*. However I could also see how you might want to encourage as many people as possible to use the beta for free so you can get as much feedback as possible. Really that just comes down to reading your audience, and I understand that you may not really know what your audience is going to be until after you've done the full release situation.

Cyanomys

I like the content tiers (3/5) but suspect it may cannibalise other patreons as DM Dave's does now. I've had a brief look at the homebrew system (or at least what's in gitlab) and it looks pretty interesting assuming that's one and the same. I'm very glad you are not looking at gating features of foundry according to patreon support. The benefits of the $10 tier are less obvious to me - I don't really believe you will be able to resist having those discussions seep through to the other tiers/purchaser's discord. channels and would be worried if you could. One option for the $10 tier that would be of interest would be pooling some portion of the patreon support to fund agreed content development, possibly via collaborators with other patreons. This could pool the purchasing power of the group.beyond that which is easily accessible to individuals.

tim posney

I think the $5 tier should have access to the brainstorm channel. $10 is a lot for some people that could potentially contribute in very positive ways to the project. Also, how can I contribute maps, modules, and content? This is something I would very much like to do.

Erogroth

Has there been any work on integration with WorldAnvil? I tried looking through the website and didn't see it anywhere. I'm new to both WA and using Foundry, so hopefully the question isn't a dumb one.

Cris Jesse

I very much like the sound of having foundry-ready content (modules and maps) ready to import into a home campaign. If possible being able to purchase these outside of patreon would be great as well, though I understand that makes things more complicated for you. It's not very clear what the difference between Champion teir point 4 and Hero tier point 2 are. Are the Hero tier releases intended to be more frequent?

DM Dave does something similar. He writes the adventure, czepuku makes the maps, Griffon's Saddlebag makes items. It works really well cause you get a glut of high quality content in one package. You could easily do something and include a VTT compendium for the adventure.

Just one ting I'd like to note: I understand that, on the face of it, the $5 tier would normally get more benefits than the $3 tier, but it doesn't look like you've taken into account that those of us on the $3 tier have been supporters longer than those on the $5 tier and, in some cases, a lot longer and given a lot more money. I know that having a flat $3, $5, and $10 level is obviously much simpler than trying to work out which supporters have been around longer and given more, etc., I just think how long a person has been a supporter should be taken into account in some way.

The homebrew system doesn't really interest me, just because there's already a glut of well made RPGs out there. One of the things that's made a positive impression on me is your support of other patreons out there and just the community as a whole. I think partnerships with them to bring in content from time to time would really play into your strengths. There's also a need for this outside of your patreon though. I think spotlighting various patreons on the foundry home page for a return in featuring a free item or two would be beneficial to both parties. As for your patreon, maybe early access to those or even some bonus content would be enough for me. Easy integration into foundry VTT would be appreciated as well. This could be expanded on down the road as well for a general marketplace.

Mark Mealman

This is a very solid bonus system, and one I will most likely be patronizing once may 22nd arrives and everything's all setup for it. You've done an amazing job with the system, and foundry grows by leaps and bounds. Glad I was here from an earlier stage to support it :)