Supplementary Material 18: The Clown Car Cometh
Added 2024-11-16 01:40:49 +0000 UTCStill in the land of the free, and restocked with important new insights from his US travels, Matt is confronted with the Gurusphere's predictably depressing reaction to the election. And what's that we hear in the distance, is it a honking car?
Supplementary Material 18
00:00 Matt's American Ethnography
10:59 Eric Weinstein is waiting for the call
14:32 Huberman, Krauss, and MAGA Sycophancy
18:39 Boghossian and other would-be Intellectual Clerics of the MAGA regime
22:52 Sam Harris criticises Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, and MAGA
32:05 The Fifth Column, The Free Press and World Weary Both Sides-ing
53:19 Election Reflections: Macro and Micro Causes
01:04:40 Longer Term Trends
01:10:08 Sarah Haider and the Hip Vibe of the New Right
01:24:00 Richard Dawkins Dual Nature
01:31:08 A Plea to Sean Carroll and our Listeners
01:33:06 An important note on Bouldering
Sources
A Special Place in Hell: Adios Amigos: The Special Place Finale
That graph mentioned about the loss of support for incumbent regimes
THe Fifth Column: #234 - Come On and Zoom! (Wagnerian Opera Edition)
Comments
Recommend me vacation destination!
aneladgam_varelse
2025-01-04 20:50:47 +0000 UTCFor what?
Christopher Kavanagh
2025-01-04 05:07:42 +0000 UTCIs Belfast better than Tokyo?
aneladgam_varelse
2024-11-22 09:58:01 +0000 UTCThanks Mark, I’ll definitely check it out!
Eric Quirk
2024-11-20 01:39:32 +0000 UTCI've been following Sean Carroll for years. He's done interviews on podcasts much smaller than Decoding the Gurus, including on DTG-adjacent podcasts like Tim Nguyen's. My guess is that if you guys invite him on there's a good chance he would accept.
Erik Fast
2024-11-18 23:09:53 +0000 UTCChris, someday you will see the light when it comes to Bernie. Until then, I hope you enjoy your universal healthcare providing, public transit investing advanced democracy. Because that sounds terrible and we in America are not jealous at all about any of that stuff.
Devin Poore
2024-11-18 21:59:35 +0000 UTCI knew a person who disliked didgeridoos. He called them didgeridonts.
Linda Sears
2024-11-18 21:56:56 +0000 UTCright.. i mentioned this to your traveling companion, matt! that the mexican immigrants do so much of the hard work in this country.. i don't know why some despise them. i also wonder what all the perfectly manicured lawns and landscapes of greater suburbia will look like once all the workers are deported. the boomer owners sure as shit won't be doing it and any of the companies remaining will be "too expensive" :p
ketracel-white
2024-11-18 21:40:57 +0000 UTCGreat episode! Here in the US, patriots are still reeling from this disastrous election. A gut punch, no joke. Putin's installed regime are classic bullies picking on the weakest kids. Real 4th grade vibes here. And the serfs cheer on.
DeAnn Gregory
2024-11-18 18:20:08 +0000 UTCMeidas touch
DeAnn Gregory
2024-11-18 18:15:04 +0000 UTCYes, Kansas City, Ks is just across the Missouri River from Kansas City, Mo. It's very confusing for everyone not familiar with the city boundaries.
DeAnn Gregory
2024-11-18 18:13:06 +0000 UTCEric, You're probably right about the grits, but my husband said the grits here in Missouri are good if you can find them. 🤩 With all that's going on in the US, I feel Missouri grits look like a good hill to die on 🤣
DeAnn Gregory
2024-11-18 18:06:49 +0000 UTCHe is unhinged about trans politics.
Tobias nilsson
2024-11-18 10:29:45 +0000 UTCI've been a tourist in Belfast. It's fine. Kansas City is better. Definitely better food.
Ad Tastic
2024-11-18 10:21:17 +0000 UTCI think he does recognize the ID politics on the MAGA side. He says it’s dead because he believes it should end, and he believes the Denocrat party was on the right track in de-emphasizing it recently, but that it would see a return of it after a Trump win.
Maarten Wesselius
2024-11-18 06:24:04 +0000 UTCYes to a Sean Carroll crossover episode!!
Linda Sears
2024-11-17 23:23:40 +0000 UTCAustralian music is all about didgeridoos, obviously.
Roland Weber
2024-11-17 21:43:10 +0000 UTCIn n out is a sound choice!
Kgar
2024-11-17 21:26:36 +0000 UTCTrue! But maybe not if you had some muscles severely fatigued 😉
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-11-17 21:15:29 +0000 UTCMatt handwaving the vast category of mexican regional music as goofy ‘la cucaracha’ oompahpah is classic. What is Australian regional music like?
Jesse Rimler
2024-11-17 20:38:55 +0000 UTCYeah but the first thing he does is whine about woke and trans right after he say it’s dead and we should bury ID politics. He just can’t see the whole maga movement in many ways is s big id politic movment
Tobias nilsson
2024-11-17 19:09:10 +0000 UTCTuchman’s A proud tower, is an essential read to position today’s polarization in relation to the polarization of the late 19th century
Mark Francis
2024-11-17 17:30:57 +0000 UTCYes that is the problem with SH, his definition of metaphysics. On his right to reply on DTG, they couldn’t pin him on his definition and had to just move on to a different subject
Mark Francis
2024-11-17 17:26:19 +0000 UTCIt's always reagan...
Soapy Dishwater
2024-11-17 14:18:43 +0000 UTCPoor Eric. Always the bridesmaid!
CrystalJade
2024-11-17 14:00:55 +0000 UTCHaha it's a little bit analogous to the snake situation here downunder then. Plenty of signs warning about snakes everywhere in reserves and parks, but its not like we walk down the street avoiding snakes everyday, like some people overseas imagine! Yes, not being allowed to open carry a gun into a church is sacrilegious. Whatever happened to "MUH FREEDOM" lolz :)?
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-11-17 12:57:00 +0000 UTCI get my news from mainstream stuff. Also David Pakman, The Bulwark, Pod Save America, The Atlantic, The Guardian and Lincoln Project etc.
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-11-17 12:54:58 +0000 UTCMatt, I heard one of the presenters on Americast (BBC podcast) who is a history buff also compare the new Trump administration with the Tudor’s court several times in a recent episode. Episode called ‘The Trump Whisperers’. Horrific stuff.
Chris Wishy
2024-11-17 12:41:13 +0000 UTCThanks for this episode! I was a bit worried that it might have more election-related content than I could stomach, but it turned out to be perfectly ok, entertaining, and enlightening. I hadn't heard yet that it's the adminstrations from the covid times that are being voted out of office world-wide. Matt, don't be shy about reaching out to Sean Carroll. In one of his AMAs, he said he's fine with being invited to other podcasts. As long as the inviters are fine with getting "no" as an answer. Sean has a time budget for podcasting activities, and most of that budget goes into producing his own. But maybe we're lucky and he's in the mood to come visit DtG.
Roland Weber
2024-11-17 11:40:25 +0000 UTCBut where do these streamers/commentators get their news from?
George
2024-11-17 11:27:38 +0000 UTCBouldering the day after a hard limit session is fine if you take it easy and reign in the urge to get back on the hard stuff. A bit of slab and endurance maybe.
Stephen Cromwell
2024-11-17 11:20:38 +0000 UTCDestiny is the only alternative media figure that I respect in terms of getting news from. I also listen to what sam harris says about world affairs, but I dont really consider that to be news, as he does no empirical research and is 99% focused on rethorics - like so many others in alternative media. I think my biology makes me a center-right person, so I read a lot of nytimes and the guardian to avoid falling into an echo chamber. I also think wikipedia is by far the best thing to come out of the internet as it gives you a lot of facts about topics in a fairly neutral way
Eivi
2024-11-17 09:36:54 +0000 UTCThanks to C&M for pointing out the global trends with post-pandemic voter responses to sitting administrations. A reminder of the cyclic natures of regimes in democratic republics. In recent memory with US presidential elections, it seems that the strategy of linking the current admin to voters’ individual economic woes has origins in the 1980 election. Reagan famously asked voters, “Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?” And here we are.
Nancy Hale
2024-11-17 01:35:07 +0000 UTCI’ll really glad to hear it!
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:33:54 +0000 UTCYep I corresponded with AF a bit and I agree they need a more of what he brings to the table
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:32:32 +0000 UTCI haven’t seen a single gun about a person! But I have seen a lot of signs about guns. Open carry allowed inside, no guns allowed inside. You can’t even bring gunny into a church apparently— it’s ridiculous!
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:31:35 +0000 UTCParis is literally Right There
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:29:13 +0000 UTCOh I’m seeing Matt’s reading A Distant Mirror, an incredible book! One of my favorites for sure
Eric Quirk
2024-11-17 01:28:57 +0000 UTCSure let us see when it comes out!
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:28:27 +0000 UTCI like making smash burgers at home, which is strictly mustard onion and pickles. But I like most of the fast food variations — Americans really know how to make a burger, who-woulda-thunk-it. Gun to my head being forced to choose my fav, I think it would have to be In-N-Out burger.
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:27:46 +0000 UTCHey Matt - I’m very interested in what you’re reading about the middle ages, care to share? Also, Chris, just fyi, St. Louis would be viewed with disdain by true grits connoisseurs, it’s far far too north
Eric Quirk
2024-11-17 01:25:52 +0000 UTCThis confused me a lot at the time
Guruspod 2
2024-11-17 01:24:12 +0000 UTCDisappointing from Sarah Haider. I'm also perplexed by this description of the democrats/left. Where is this perception coming from. I feel like if you keep asking people for examples, they would have almost none.
Kyle
2024-11-17 00:27:23 +0000 UTCI'd love an interview episode with Sean Carroll! Let's manifest it
Reinert
2024-11-16 23:46:53 +0000 UTCThe MAGA adjacent disinformation industrial complex has been propagandizing nonstop to millions of people for years now. Although the election itself was most likely decided by average people's perception of the economy, Daily Wire, Joe Rogan, Tucker Carlson, InfoWars etc have a lot to answer for.
Reinert
2024-11-16 23:44:15 +0000 UTCMostly mainstream media I'm afraid
Reinert
2024-11-16 23:30:17 +0000 UTCMetaphysics is a very broad umbrella, I assume you mean something like "objective reality"? Not sure how SH is ambiguous to it, he seems to be a staunch defender of his own particular brand of objectivity. That's where many of the issues I have with him stem from.
Reinert
2024-11-16 23:27:43 +0000 UTCTotally agree
Mark Francis
2024-11-16 22:36:22 +0000 UTCI agree Pete that discussions and debates in liberal spaces often are used by intolerant and hateful people to target trans people and push through repressive policies. Also glad to hear about your positive personal experience! 👍 But I don’t think that Jesse and Helen are unaware of those dynamics or that it means that the topics should be beyond discussion / the research literature should not be engaged with critically. As Nina illustrates with the Tavistock clinic controversy, there are genuine issues and the same arguments were made there when people criticized the service. None of which is to suggest that the emphasis on bathroom bills, etc. is appropriate or helpful. I think most people would agree there is a substantial moral panic phenomenon being stoked here. If you haven’t I would encourage you to listen to the discussions that Aaron Rabinowitz had with both Helen and Jesse (the latter being much more contentious), I think they illustrate well the relevant divisions and also where people are coming from in their stances.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-11-16 22:22:42 +0000 UTCPlease let us know the title.
Linda Sears
2024-11-16 22:13:00 +0000 UTCI hope Matt can put together a book review and take aways from Tuchman’s A distant Mirror. It’s the time period that is subconsciously romanticized, a world ruled by metaphysics, kings and barons… I am looking forward to hearing DTG thoughts on Yarvin… I have never been able to understand Sam Harris’s ambiguity to metaphysics, a belief in metaphysics is like a gateway to illiberalism and a yearning for this past World. Liberal democracy rejected metaphysics and is underpinned by the STEM subjects and a robust rule of law that did not exist pre 15 th century….. Sam Harris’s view of metaphysics is quite strange and probably points to some illiberal blind spots to his arguments. I find it hard to believe his fears that the IRS may give him a hard time??? incumbency was probably the heaviest factor unfortunately it feels that liberal democracy was the incumbent and not the Dems…
Mark Francis
2024-11-16 22:11:26 +0000 UTCHe’s long term had issues with progressive politics and what he sees as a woke takeover.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-11-16 22:06:30 +0000 UTCGood points, Nina and Pete. It’s a shame that a complex issue, which can have such large effects on people’s lives gets turned into a way to foster hatred and distrust. We need more understanding and productive conversations. As a lifelong feminist, I believe we can find common ground. It seems like it has become a lot harder to do lately.
Linda Sears
2024-11-16 21:27:34 +0000 UTCI don't think it is a blind spot. I just think it is a very difficult thing to talk about if you have no in depth knowledge on the subject. I have a personal and academic interest so am willing to express an opinion. I believe you are right - there is a frightening amount of bigotry and 'trans ideology' has been used as a political football. However I also believe that journalism is important. The issues at the Tavistock (which were much wider than anything to do with therapy or medicine) would not have been uncovered without journalism and the investigating team are still called bigots. I don't share the same concerns as Helen Lewis but I defend her right to have very limited concerns about what a change in the law could mean for women. I think there is sometimes a temptation to label feminists 'bigoted' and to question why it has anything to do with them. However, 'what is a woman' is exactly the question they have been addressing for the last century. And generally there has been a lot of disagreement.
Nina Davies
2024-11-16 20:46:03 +0000 UTCAn amusing fact about Kansas City is that most of the city isn’t even in the state of Kansas, but is in Missouri
Heath Lancaster
2024-11-16 20:34:49 +0000 UTCI may be in the minority here, but I’d go to Belfast and take the Troubles tour.
Linda Sears
2024-11-16 19:53:32 +0000 UTC“Messy artistic chaos” made me gag
Bobby Wayward
2024-11-16 18:47:40 +0000 UTCSame dif?
Monica B.
2024-11-16 18:47:17 +0000 UTCThat first Sarah Haider clip (disclaimer: I have never heard of her before this and that feels just fine…shades of red scare indeed) reminds me of when super attractive people go to a party or event and are like ‘omg everyone there was just so NICE’. I mean, I’m sure they were hahaha. Like…bright youngish women at whatever the hell this goofy conference was are being catered to? Ya don’t say! In retrospect I see several group interactions from my own youth much more clearly now than I did then. It’s bleak in the patriarchy y’all : /
Monica B.
2024-11-16 18:46:19 +0000 UTCTourorists
Reinert
2024-11-16 18:15:04 +0000 UTCI also genuinely like Sam Harris and have been a listener of his since 2016 although most of the critiques that DTG has of him are valid, especially his blindspots regarding his "friends" like Murray, Eric Weinstein, Konstantin, etc
Brendan Grabs
2024-11-16 18:11:35 +0000 UTCWhere do you guys get most of your news from these days? I confess to not loving main stream media of any kind, and I mostly watch Secular Talk with Kyle Kulinski or Breaking Points (although I dislike Sagar and Emily) for Krystle Ball and to a lesser extent Ryan Grim. Kyle can come across as a bit pompous but he's overall my most trusted source of information.
Brendan Grabs
2024-11-16 18:09:54 +0000 UTCI listen to the Sam Harris podcast. He whines about trans people and is politics. What is wrong with that man?
Tobias nilsson
2024-11-16 16:14:51 +0000 UTCPutting my “bias” at the top that I am the parent of a trans adult who has been absolutely thriving in all aspects of his life since starting to transition … I think you guys have a bit of a blind spot with Jesse Singal in particular, and also to some extent with Helen Lewis. My question is: How do you not see that these discussions about trans athletes and bathrooms etc. are just used as stalking horses for the elimination of trans people’s rights by the zealots farther to the right of Singal and Lewis et al.? Sure, these topics can be argued in some kind of an airless, intellectual sphere, but if the real world implications aren’t fully engaged, it’s serving the forces of intolerance, or worse. And pundits like Singal end up being useful idiots at best … With that said, I do love the pod outside of this blind spot (we all have them) but I hope you read this and consider this perspective.
Pete Hollitscher
2024-11-16 15:53:04 +0000 UTCThanks, Billy! By the way, the title of the episode is brilliant. So kudos to the one who came up with it.
Linda Sears
2024-11-16 15:24:47 +0000 UTCThanks for your work just looked you up. Cheers
Billy Brouse
2024-11-16 14:23:44 +0000 UTCPlease teach the children. We need you so much right now
Billy Brouse
2024-11-16 14:19:46 +0000 UTCGlad you guys mentioned Boghossian and his self promotion for secretary of education, but you didn't mention that Musk himself tweeted "yeah" in response." I just hope to whatever God there is that we don't wake up one day and find him actually as secretary of education. I don't think so, but with this lunacy who knows?
HRobbins
2024-11-16 14:12:07 +0000 UTCThe temptation to listen and not grade is strong.
Linda Sears
2024-11-16 14:05:06 +0000 UTCI do enjoy Chris’ accent, but I cannot tell whether he’s talking about all the tourists in Belfast or all the terrorists. Hopefully the former, but you never know.
Steve Alexander
2024-11-16 14:02:51 +0000 UTCSeeing as we are all running on vibes and not actually living in any real ecological, economic or social context, my carefully considered feels are that Sarah Haider is giving off Unity Mitford vibes.
Nina Davies
2024-11-16 13:55:39 +0000 UTCThanks for indulging in American politics. I feel better hearing from you. Matt’s advice to keep our chins up really helped too. You guys do great work and it means a lot to me. 💚🇺🇸🤞🏼
Jen
2024-11-16 13:05:55 +0000 UTCThank god for the sanity provided by Chris and Matt. Glad you’re enjoying your trek thru the US. I’m curious Matt if you have a favorite burger, or a favorite way to dress your burger? Here in south Texas I think mine is the Whataburger. Mustard. Pickle. Onion. Jalapeno. I probably eat a burger once a month -or even once every two months. But I’m an old fart trying to keep from being one of the overweight majority! Carry on. Your analysis and good humor is a welcome respite from our clown car political show
Kgar
2024-11-16 12:20:28 +0000 UTCFound it. Thanks.
Daniel Hansen
2024-11-16 12:12:35 +0000 UTCOn the other hand, it was brilliant and I loved Belfast
Tom Kerwin
2024-11-16 11:27:37 +0000 UTCVery good episode, especially the point of 'pre-modern' syncophancy. I have written since some time how we are sliding back into a new dark age og myth, manipulation and magical thinking... because of our broken info sphere. Can't wait for you guys to get to see my book which is with the publisher now! Explaining how we got here
Protagonist Science
2024-11-16 09:45:48 +0000 UTCAbout 25 years ago, I booked onto a tourist bus to go look at the sites of The Troubles. The “bus” was a small car, and my friend and I were the only two customers. 😂
Tom Kerwin
2024-11-16 09:30:53 +0000 UTCIt already exists!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-11-16 08:07:14 +0000 UTCI would like a subscription feed-whatever-you-call-it, that i could paste into my podcast player of choice… like everyone’s favorite guru over at non-zero offers.
Daniel Hansen
2024-11-16 07:30:23 +0000 UTCHey a lot of us here do not hate immigrants, and almost 50% of us did not vote for hate! I think even many of the MAGA cult wouldn't own up to hating immigrants if you pressed them on it. Like they would just say something like "I hate the criminals or the ones who don't work." They just love having a nameless faceless enemy to unite around, but if they met an undocumented person face to face they would try to play it off as "Nothing personal".
Jacqueline Stolz
2024-11-16 06:23:58 +0000 UTCMatt is a philistine.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-11-16 06:11:39 +0000 UTCBelfast is a huge tourist destination!
Ciaran Mullan
2024-11-16 05:56:43 +0000 UTCI feel attacked ive just booked my holiday to Belfast next year!!
Helen McCallum
2024-11-16 05:26:16 +0000 UTCIt’s helpful to hear you guys because the level of doomerism is overwhelming. I mean the amount of stuff that people fear from the government, I guess would be kind of surprising because I don’t think they’re that motivated to do anything except to get more money and more votes. But it will be shitty. The one thing I will say that I’m super bummed about though and I am a woman so you know I’m a little biased. I’m bummed that people are once again saying that we can never have a woman president and I’ve been waiting for like my whole life for like one , but like still how long does it take people to get fucking ready for shit like that?
JGraves
2024-11-16 04:03:58 +0000 UTC2/ On the USA election, good job (Chris) highlighting the fact that pretty much all incumbent parties in global democracies either lost elections or won with a much reduced share like Modi’s BJP. Apparently it’s the first time it’s happened, which tells me that social media is genuinely making people deranged as u didn’t see this sort of thing after global recessions / Great Depressions of past. Also, totally agree that while there is no single reason Kamala lost, pretty sure that anti-black racism & sexism played some part too. Low info voters should be condemned for not being responsible enough to make themselves informed about what they are doing. A democracy is as good as the people in it who participate in voting and those who voted for Trump absolutely deserve the clown car show that he is bound to deliver. Hope they get it good and hard! Lastly, the fact that 75 million voters overlooked Trump’s coup attempts, extreme rhetoric and incoherent rambling is definitely an indictment on the American electorate. Anne Applebaum, Tom Nichols & JV Last have said this also; there is undoubtedly a strong market for fascism, authoritarianism and racism in America, but it’s difficult to know with accuracy how large or small that percentage is, because I also agree that not all of the 75 million affirmatively want that.
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-11-16 03:54:53 +0000 UTCGood episode boys. One thing I’m curious about Matt, is how many people you have seen openly carrying or conceal carrying guns on your American travels? Been to any gun shows or visited any gun shops? In order to get the full American experience, please fill us in non-Americans on how that’s like next time hehe 😜?
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-11-16 03:49:50 +0000 UTCAnthony Fischer leaving TFC as their producer/sometimes co-host removed the governor towards their shift towards dumb contrarian instead of smart contrarianism. He’s on blusky and very critical of the American libertarian movement (and things like the Free Press) shilling to MAGA
Brice F
2024-11-16 03:28:29 +0000 UTCLmao I know Chris is joking about the level of tourism that exists in Belfast, but ironically it’s the Americans of Irish heritage that are the ones who want to visit Ireland.
Yoloswag42069
2024-11-16 02:48:14 +0000 UTCOnly a few minutes in and you Guys are making me feel better! Thx you!
Kimberly Beer
2024-11-16 02:22:10 +0000 UTC
