Supplementary Material 12: Olympic Ceremonies and Presidential Candidates
Added 2024-08-03 23:00:21 +0000 UTCWe tour the Guru-sphere's balanced and considered response to the Olympics Opening Ceremony and Kamala Harris replacing Biden as the Democratic presidential candidate. And oh boy are they on form!
Addressing Petty Grievances: The Show's Format
The Furor French Olympics Opening Ceremony
Trump's Assassination Conspiracies
The Great Flowering of Kamala Harris Takes
Konstantin Kisin and Cringe Immunity
Steven Pinker vs. Triggernometry
Bret Weinstein's New Conspiracy Hypothesis
The Wonders of Peterson Academy
Bret's Falsifiable Prediction
We Never Miss!
The Importance of Supporting the Podcast
Lex Fridman's Selective Centrism and Wounded Bird Pose
The Hypocrisy of Reactionary Puritans
Ken Klippenstein on Steve Bannon's War Room
Final Thoughts and Farwell
Links
Comments
Was genuinely laughing out loud on the bus home when I heard Chris say he was looking at the back end of the channel and that it was fascinating.
Joshua Thomas
2024-09-29 21:15:08 +0000 UTCThe seagulls were my favorite part.
Linda Sears
2024-08-09 15:47:50 +0000 UTCNot sure if it’s just because I usually tune out when Bret Weinstein is talking, but good lord the seagulls in that clip… does he not have a quiet place to record what is so important for him to say?
Bobby Wayward
2024-08-08 21:30:52 +0000 UTCDepends what you mean by a fake Catholic Chris?
Julie
2024-08-08 21:08:57 +0000 UTCI am too kinda.
Julie
2024-08-08 21:08:22 +0000 UTCMatt’s a fake Catholic!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-08 21:04:57 +0000 UTCWhat lack? Physics is doing great
Reinert
2024-08-08 09:36:15 +0000 UTCThanks, that was fun! 😄 You almost made me wish I'd seen that opening ceremony.
Roland Weber
2024-08-07 18:08:18 +0000 UTCSean Carroll episode 245: The Crisis in Physics https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2023/07/31/245-solo-the-crisis-in-physics/
Roland Weber
2024-08-07 18:01:28 +0000 UTCI guess Kissin is the bigger fan of Nietzsche.
Dada de Broglie
2024-08-07 01:54:41 +0000 UTCYa. I think you are right.
Julie
2024-08-06 13:08:44 +0000 UTCI think Matt grew up sort of Catholic as well?
Linda Sears
2024-08-06 13:03:38 +0000 UTCI quite like the idea that conservatives are misunderstanding the term 'progressive' in progressive metal
Matt
2024-08-06 12:02:02 +0000 UTCThen they are as paranoid and credulous as the people they’re preaching to. Wow.
Aaron Holder
2024-08-06 06:54:11 +0000 UTCOh how I wish the opening ceremonies would been entirely dedicated to lampooning the English. That would have made for much more fun controversy.
Trees
2024-08-05 20:38:16 +0000 UTCChris: “peace be with you…and also with me..” excellent. Chris was brainwashed as a child. I wonder if Matt even gets these Catholic references?
Julie
2024-08-05 19:26:48 +0000 UTCFound the newspaper article from Helsingin Sanomat: https://www.hs.fi/visio/art-2000010392837.html Although I can't be arsed to pay for it 😅
Vaeisaelae
2024-08-05 15:33:58 +0000 UTCI haven’t listened to a ton of Cannibal Corpse, but from what I have heard they seem more violent and gory than Satanic. Metal Archives only classifies them as death metal. I know of blackened death metal too but that would be the subgenre that overlaps the two.
Amy
2024-08-05 12:37:33 +0000 UTCHmm there is still some overlap though. Cannibal Corpse are pretty Satanic. There is a whole genre called Blackened Death Metal too hehe!
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-08-05 09:17:22 +0000 UTCIn light of this episode, I'm increasing my "Profiteering" score of Chris and Matt to 1.2.
332
2024-08-05 09:09:18 +0000 UTCIt seems so based on what they say in private.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-05 08:38:25 +0000 UTCDenial is different to a complete blackout though – yes there was reporting, not least on polls that showed voters could see the obvious better than the media could, but it was all against a general mood of 'don't rock the boat'. I agree Ezra Klein was an honorable earlier exception (though Robert Wright and others were far earlier) but Klein received a chorus of 'You realise you're just helping Trump here!' from the same people now policing the conversation on Harris. Rank and file Dems could easily have had a choice if there had been a freer conversation about all this stuff a year or two ago, when Biden's decline was already obvious and the crunch point was coming like a slow train. One downside of the obvious Trump danger is it makes Dems petrified of anything that looks like dissent, and I think that's been counterproductive (although admittedly more understandable with 100 days to go). On Ukraine, I just think it's hubristic to think you can look at 30 years of post-Berlin-Wall geopolitics and think the evidence allows only one reading. It's totally plausible to see a series of missed opportunities, culpable overreach and 'security dilemma' dynamics where moves framed as defensive will predictably be seen as aggressive on the other side. If some of that involves repeating RWA or Putin 'talking points', then it's just judging arguments on a roll call of the bad guys who support them – as easy as saying pro-Ukrainers are repeating Boris Johnson, George W Bush or David Frum talking points. Anyway, I'm now arguing with one of my favourite podcasters because I'm my own worst enemy. Thanks for engaging on it.
Nick Asbury
2024-08-05 08:15:00 +0000 UTCHere’s a question: Do the Weinsteins and Alex Jones et. al really believe their conspiracy theories? I honestly can’t accept they do! They make shit up and broadcast it, right?
Aaron Holder
2024-08-05 07:18:25 +0000 UTCI have now doubled my patronage to $200,000 and fully expect Chris to become 30% better.
Idan Ca
2024-08-05 05:38:57 +0000 UTCI get the impression that Saks confuses access to government officials for knowledge about domestic and foreign policy.
Adam Sher
2024-08-05 03:11:52 +0000 UTCDavid Saks said on an episode last year that he is so good on foreign policy because he follows the right people on Twitter.
Adam Sher
2024-08-05 03:08:28 +0000 UTCOkay, forgive me but I need to correct your point about death metal music. It’s not satanic. That’s black metal. There’s overlap in the musical style but the lyrical themes are a main thing that distinguishes them. There’s also a decent overlap between metal heads and people who love classical music. I’m among them. 😁
Amy
2024-08-05 01:54:30 +0000 UTCI had a manic episode once that turned paranoid and had to get help for it. And I know from that experience that it’s extremely difficult to see the delusion for what it is while it’s happening. But I do remember noticing while it was happening that there was a “Spy vs. Spy” quality to my thoughts (which was an old Mad magazine comic strip) in which I could always come up with a theory as to why I was ultimately correct and on to something by undermining the rare moments of clarity. Brett is DOING that in those clips. It’s absolutely nuts that he’s got a “course” teaching people how to be psychotic.
Evan
2024-08-05 01:30:09 +0000 UTCNick> I fundamentally disagree that anyone repeating the arguments of Russians With Attitudes uncritically is offering a reasonable position on the war. Wright is better than Sacks but there simply isn’t an equivalence in the evidence for all interpretations about who was the aggressor Russia or NATO. As far as denial… you suggested that there was minimal discussion of the issue allowed in mainstream liberal sources. I checked one outlet you mentioned and found tonnes of articles l discussing the issue from well before the debate, I just copy pasted 3 examples. I could have spent 5 minutes and provided you 20 articles from a variety of mainstream left wing outlets discussing the issue in some depth. How does that accord with the presentation that it was not really discussed? Criticism became stronger after the debate performance because that was particularly bad. But again there’s no mystery there. If he had performed well, the opposite would have happened. There’s plenty of room for differing political views but it’s not the case that evidence supports all POVs equally. There really isn’t some mystery about why the Democrats would support Kamala in an election year.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-05 00:34:00 +0000 UTCHow to pronounce Kamala. https://abc7news.com/pronounce-kamala-name-pronunciation-harris-meaning/7611611/
BZ00000
2024-08-04 23:24:04 +0000 UTCMatt, where I can I read some of your stuff on the psychology of gaming? Or gamification? I know they’re two quite different things, but I’m not sure which you mentioned and I’m interested in both. 😀
Gretchen Koch
2024-08-04 23:11:01 +0000 UTCIt’s not like the rank and file Democrats have a choice. We don’t march in lockstep behind anybody, much less Biden—- and completely unlike Trump’s followers, who have literally gone to prison for committing crimes in his defense. I couldn’t stand Biden— he was the last person I wanted to win the Democratic nomination, except for perhaps Marianne Williamson. Can’t stand Harris, either. They both have contributed hugely to barbaric immigration policy over the last few years, and even more to the corruption of the Justice system before that. But I would be overjoyed to support literally any Democrat who could beat Trump. He’s done more to obliterate Justice since 2016 than Biden or Harris, or anyone in America for that matter, have done in their entire lives.
Gretchen Koch
2024-08-04 23:07:32 +0000 UTCHonestly think you’re proving my point a bit though - the idea that the opposing views must come from a narrow media diet, rather than a genuine disagreement. Really think my diet is wider than most Ukraine flag tweeters - my default is Guardian in UK, and everything from Pod Save America to Robert Wright to DTG itself. And the assertion about repeating Russian propaganda could just as equally be flipped to say Anne Applebaum is repeating NATO/EU propaganda. But I’m not trying to ‘both sides’ every single issue and I agree Trump ought to be well beyond the pale in a sane world. Once again, the meta-point is more about the nature of *some* political questions like Ukraine or like the extraordinary Biden saga. I just think you sometimes take it as obvious evidence of bad faith or suspicious motives when I’d say it’s within the bounds of normal political disagreement. And I do think it’s obtuse to deny there’s been a widespread mood of denial around Biden’s obvious decline, which flipped in dramatic style at the last minute.
Nick Asbury
2024-08-04 23:04:41 +0000 UTC“Hey guys did you see how I genetically engineered yesterday’s tweet so that if my critics object they actually agree with me?” - something Scott Adams said on a broadcast once that this Bret nonsense reminded me of
Mark K
2024-08-04 22:14:57 +0000 UTCI don't really understand what makes it 'shallow' and 'self -interested' for a party to rally behind the presumptive nominee in an election year. It is in some ways comparable to the support for Republicans of whoever the Republican candidate is but the MAGA takeover of the Republican Party does make the Trump support a little different. Trump is not a normal politician. Also, it is not 'partisanship' to support a candidate. Dean Phillips is not the 'sole Democrat' that criticised Biden and if you think that I think you need to read more left-wing outlets. Pelosi is not being hailed as a saviour but rather a pragmatist (there are plenty of Democrats critical of her too). Criticisms of Biden's age and ability did feature in CNN and the NYT. Here are a few examples, found with 1 min of searching: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/04/opinion/joe-biden-age-times-poll.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/10/us/politics/biden-trump-aging.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/16/opinion/ezra-klein-biden-audio-essay.html Perhaps your media diet is giving you an inaccurate image of the media. Whatever the outcome of the Ukraine war, it still would not make Sacks false claims and misrepresentations of history anymore correct. He repeats Russian propaganda regularly.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-04 22:13:34 +0000 UTCCracked up at Matt's we never miss and then immediate walk back 🤣
Kyle
2024-08-04 22:02:55 +0000 UTCBut isn't all this casting of Democrat moves as 'of course they'd do that – it's just politics!' something you don't do as much on the other side? I agree it's obvious they'd rally behind Harris now it's got to this point, but that shouldn't stop us calling it out as shallow and self-interested, just as 'of course' Trumpists would attack it as mindless groupthink. Either way, the fact that it's predictable partisanship is an observation more than a justification. Dean Phillips was the sole Democrat who spoke the obvious truth that Biden was declining and obviously too old to run for another four years – he did that months ago, received no support and was problematised for it, even though Pelosi (even older than Biden) is now hailed as a saviour. And without going too 'deep state', it's surely notable that CNN, NYT etc were all extremely quiet about Biden's decline (and actively dismissive of it) until it became unavoidable. On Ukraine, I see a grim stalemate at best and every chance of an eventual settlement on a level that could have been achieved in 2022, none of which is to justify Putin's obviously illegal and unconscionable actions. But the broader meta-point is that I think it's totally possible to arrive in 'good faith' at opposing views on Ukraine, or how we got to this Biden/Harris situation, in a way that's not possible with (say) Weinstein assassination theories or UFOs or lab leak arguments, where there's an objective truth (or at least such heavy evidence/logic that it has to lead anyone sane in one direction). It's a different category of disagreement and I think DTG sometimes tilts into lumping certain political stances into the same category.
Nick Asbury
2024-08-04 21:40:38 +0000 UTCYeah strongly disagree Nick. Biden’s old, everyone recognized this. There was just arguments against the conservative presentation that he was mentally enfeebled due to selected gaffes. That is a conservative attack line in every single election in modern history, including the one with Clinton (remember she fell down/clips of her glitching?). There was various opinions about whether Biden should step down, but when he chose not to, then it was also extremely unlikely he was going to face a strong challenge from the party. They would not want to give up the incumbent advantage, which is exactly what happened, despite some efforts by some Democrats to run as challengers. This is not strange or odd. It is entirely normal party politics. Next, in regards Biden stepping down, again I think you are thinking about this wrong. The Democratic Party is not a monolith, there are factions and competing personalities/interests. Biden and members of his family/emtiurage clearly wanted to continue to run even after his disastrous debate performance, but other senior party figures, the Democratic base, and donors did not want him to. The stories you saw leaked in media are again absolutely normal things that happen in politics. Then when Biden made the choice to step down, of course he was going to receive laudatory responses. He did what people asked, at the cost of his own personal ambition. Again, there is nothing nefarious here, nor is their unanimous agreement. There are plenty of pundits who argue he should have stepped down earlier. But of course the party apparatus is going to celebrate Biden, what else do you expect to happen? It’s a few months before an election. And Harris is the presumptive Democratic nominee… young and a revitalising figure for challenging Trump. Of course, she is going to receive support! Harris is also (so far) meeting expectations, and after Biden this is being welcomed. Honesty, I don’t really understand how anyone could follow politics closely and find any of this strange. It’s absolutely predictable, as is the media covering an attack line that is proving effective. Remember ‘but her emails’? The assassination being ‘memory holed’ is also simply just a result of the news cycle and Trump not effectively holding onto the momentum. It absolutely will feature in Republican ads and speeches from now until the election. Lastly, Sacks interpretation of Russia/Ukraine is really not ‘increasingly being proven right’, if anything it’s increasingly clear how detached his analysis and understanding is from anything beyond Russian propaganda.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-04 21:18:30 +0000 UTCI didn't want to watch Pinker on Triggernometry because didn't want to heat KK bullshit. But I might now. I'm not at all surprised that Pinker stuck to his guns. He's not a guru, he's not really a cultural warrior although I'm sure he has voiced his opinions on free speech issues etc. where there is some overlap but that is more the result of hijacking legitimate issues/concerns by fuckwits than it is with the issues themselves I find.
Kyle
2024-08-04 21:16:09 +0000 UTCIndeed. Watched it unfold from the beginning. Everytime I hear these people now I just can't fathom how I once saw them as reasonable or listened to Rogan on the regular. Really throws a spanner into trusting my own perception. However, take some comfort in the fact I can still readily admit I was very wrong and I've held strong in my base values and principles.
Lys
2024-08-04 21:10:23 +0000 UTCI guess it depends on where you sit. I saw a much more fractured and contentious conversation going on among the left (and these are stalwarts of the party). We had people who felt we should be loyal and stand behind Biden, people arguing he was selfish and going to destroy our chance at beating Trump by staying in, people worried a new candidate couldn’t beat Trump because of lack of name recognition, time, and money, and people concerned about the possible confusion going into an open convention creating ‘68 again. Now that a candidate has been put forward, is receiving backing from the delegates, and is turning the message in a more optimistic direction it feels more like relief from being pulled out of a depressing nightmare than wild intellectual flexibility.
Linda Sears
2024-08-04 20:26:26 +0000 UTCMatt - regarding Lex, surely you're aware of Jung's aphorism: "Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." 😁
Dean Palmer
2024-08-04 19:09:29 +0000 UTCBut remember, it’s just a hypothe *vomits a blur of hallucinations* sis
Idan Ca
2024-08-04 17:56:26 +0000 UTCI am enthusiastically with DTG on *just about* everything, but I find there's a blind spot when it comes to more political stuff. Obviously fine and right to call out the hypocrisies in the right's response to the Biden/Harris stuff. But the bigger story has been the wild intellectual flexibility on the left – the extended exercise in 'Biden is totally fine' until it became undeniable (predictably); the cowardly lack of any challenge to him during primary season; the Pelosi 'do it the easy way or the hard way' smoke-filled room; the immediate recasting of Biden as a 'hero' for selflessly being dragged out – fingernails scraping across the floor – when he could have announced it two years ago and created an orderly transition to a better candidate than Harris; the immediate reinvention of Harris into some political superstar we'd all been unaware of until now; the media chorus behind the new 'weird' talking point; the memory holing of an assassination attempt that should have everyone angrily questioning the same Secret Service now protecting Harris / Biden... I wouldn't trust David Sacks as far as I'd like to throw him, but I think he's been broadly right on the Biden stuff, and I don't disagree with his Robert Wright-ist stance on Ukraine, which (even if you disagree) is a totally defensible way of reading the history, and is increasingly being proven right. But Konstantin, Bret, Dr K, Sam Harris, Peterson, Eric, everyone else – totally with you and appreciate the regular firehose of sanity.
Nick Asbury
2024-08-04 17:47:07 +0000 UTCAll have got worse. Russell Brand may no longer be secular. Think you didn’t see rise of religion
Brainbiter
2024-08-04 13:48:13 +0000 UTCAn episode on the All in podcast would be perfect. David Sacks for sure but also on Chamath P who is an even bigger secular guru in some respects. They all have insufferable cases of galaxy brain and Cassandra complex, but his seems the worst with every response starting, “I think what everyone fails to see here is that…” and tells these slow, dramatic stories about how the richest, most powerful people in the world in his inner circle at this or that gala or event told him X but then Y happened like he told them it would 😭
Milquetoast Ramen
2024-08-04 13:47:13 +0000 UTCOk- somebody has to say it. Physics has hit a brick wall in explaining reality. Personally think it’s one of the reasons we are where we are. Technology- rapidly expanding. What are the lads view a the god of the gaps as that’s what’s being filled given lack of basic science progress shurely….
Brainbiter
2024-08-04 13:45:37 +0000 UTCI think the word recent depends on how old you are! The ‘68 convention was in total disarray because of the rising anti-Vietnam War sentiment, particularly among the youth, and the civil rights protests and riots after the assassination of MLK. RFK’s assassination added fuel to the fire. Chicago police and the national guard were sent in to deal with the protestors who were kept away from the convention by barbed wire.
Linda Sears
2024-08-04 13:13:06 +0000 UTCHaha wow I see! Thanks for that info. Pity the rubes who are going there.
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-08-04 13:04:50 +0000 UTCHe's fostered an environment where it's seen as the good/intelligent kind of conspiracy theorizing. Heterodox thinkers of this kind like to point out that conspiracies do happen from time to time, thus implanting in their listeners' heads that there must be a nonzero chance that their particular pet theories are true as well, and any argument to the contrary can easily and efficiently be dismissed as closedmindedness, or "not science". The whole conspiratorial edifice is a well oiled machine unfortunately.
Reinert
2024-08-04 13:00:09 +0000 UTCYes, not too recent. I think you said you didn't think it ever happened before, so I was just doing a little fact check. Also, as an aside, I know name pronunciation is not your strongest skill, but lots of right wingers purposely misprounce Kamala the way you pronounce it just to be dicks. The emphasis should be on the first syllable, not the second. Love you guys, keep up the good work!
Randy
2024-08-04 12:56:35 +0000 UTCTrue that though that’s nearly 50 years ago, which I’m not sure counts as that recent!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-04 12:40:47 +0000 UTCChris, there is a fairly recent example of a sitting president taking himself out of the race for reelection. It was LBJ in 1968. And the original RFK was likely to win the Democratic primary and go on to win the presidency, but then he was assasinated, the Democrats kinda fell apart, and Nixon got elected
Randy
2024-08-04 12:30:10 +0000 UTCI believed Chris. 'Well I never knew that!' I thought, trying to piece together The Thick of It, David Cooperfield and The 4 Lions in a coherent time line.
Nina Davies
2024-08-04 09:10:21 +0000 UTCNever miss with gurus... movie details we miss every episode!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-04 08:58:13 +0000 UTCTo be fair. I couldn’t find another one, so for me it’s a solid 9.
john statham
2024-08-04 08:03:22 +0000 UTCRemember you ‘never miss’
john statham
2024-08-04 08:02:17 +0000 UTCMan.. Bret... I'm torn. I don't know whether to be impressed by his ability to spew his conspiracy bullshit with such a strait face or whether to be so enraged that I woukd want to tornado kick his fucking head off. Maybe I should stick to the former since I'm getting old and would most certainly pull my hamstring or something in an attempt to achieve the latter. I just wish he'd shut his damn mouth!!
Chomagerider
2024-08-04 07:49:17 +0000 UTCMy god…
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-08-04 07:28:56 +0000 UTCThey show up as clear segments on the ep runtime in podcast addict. Might be a player issue?
Unfitforpurpose
2024-08-04 07:02:52 +0000 UTCAccording to the timeline on their website, they are supposed to begin teaching their first undergraduate this fall!!! That doesn't leave much time. I hope Matt and Chris will be happy to write us all references.
Robert Andrews
2024-08-04 06:49:25 +0000 UTC19 Minutes Fluff. The senior guru. ‘4 Lions is a comedy by Armando Ianucci.’ Director: Chris Morris Screenplay: Chris Morris, Jesse Armstrong, Sam Bain, Simon Blackwell
john statham
2024-08-04 04:55:53 +0000 UTCIt's wild how Brett has managed to see conspiracy theories as synonymous with scientific hypotheses. A dissonant attempt to separate himself and company from the stereotype of conspiracists.
Lys
2024-08-04 04:47:33 +0000 UTCNice episode lads! These supplementary podcasts work a lot better in a structured, separate format rather than a meandering session at the beginning of a guru decoding. Love how often you are doing these as well. Def plenty of new material with USA elections & Olympics taking place. Nice bonus for us loyal Patreons 😅 As for Kisin, good on Pinker for pushing back. Not his biggest fan but he surpassed my expectations here. And what a disgusting, misogynistic and racist POS Kisin is! Love how a failed comedian & low IQ, little dweeb hack is mocking the qualifications of a former Prosecutor, AG, Senator and VP lol! With regards to Peterson Academy, I’m really curious to see the employment prospects of young men undertaking those courses. Should feel sorry for these rubes getting fleeced haha, but I don’t. It’s like Trump University all over again. Btw do you guys know what happened to Bari Weiss & Niall Ferguson’s IDW University?
SHOUNAK SARKAR
2024-08-04 01:57:15 +0000 UTCYou started doing the supplemental materials just in time. Imagine if you had to put this all at the beginning of a decoding of Dr. K episode.
Linda Sears
2024-08-04 00:11:52 +0000 UTCWhere do I see the bookmarks? I'm using castbox on android
Níall Faughnan
2024-08-04 00:04:01 +0000 UTCWiz zis supplementary materials you are really spoiling us!
Robert Andrews
2024-08-03 23:50:36 +0000 UTCThere it is !
Jon Hand
2024-08-03 23:21:54 +0000 UTC🤔 I am seeing show notes but no podcast…
Jon Hand
2024-08-03 23:08:44 +0000 UTC
