Interview with Flint Dibble on Alternative Archaeology
Added 2024-05-01 22:32:27 +0000 UTCThis is an advance release of our interview with archaeologist Flint Dibble, discussing his recent appearance on Joe Rogan to debate ancient civilizations with Graham Hancock and broader issues relating to science communication and responding to 'alternative' archaeology. If you notice any audio issues, please let us know, and we will fix them before the release on the main feed!
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Comments
So your friend believes air is just a theory?
Michael Lewinger
2024-05-13 15:09:21 +0000 UTCThat is a very good summation written by a native English speaker thank you so much
Michael Lewinger
2024-05-13 15:07:41 +0000 UTCPseudoscience uses just the theory part of science while introduction, methodology, and previous knowledge comes from "elsewhere" usually mythical texts such as the Bible, but also something shared with true science, which is a large body of theories that eventually look like common sense so what do we become if we stop accepting common sense right?
Michael Lewinger
2024-05-13 15:06:18 +0000 UTCLoved this!
emmajane
2024-05-11 07:48:23 +0000 UTCAlso did not know that "elench" is also an actual word in the dictionary (meaning roughly 'refutation') "Joe Rogan, Great Khan of the Zetetic Elench". Hmm. Has a ring to it
Paul Bowman
2024-05-10 13:36:58 +0000 UTCJust remembered the Zetetic Elench from Banks. Thought that word was familiar...
Paul Bowman
2024-05-10 13:28:59 +0000 UTC(467 pages!?! Christ...)
Paul Bowman
2024-05-10 10:43:32 +0000 UTCFor ref, its from the (author-penned, AFAICS?) blurb for this tome, which looks like a classic of the genre - https://www.amazon.com/Zetetic-Method-Proving-Earth-Flat/dp/B0CGG2NQ7S
Paul Bowman
2024-05-10 10:42:17 +0000 UTCThanks for that link. I think "Zetetic method" is a great label for this particular type of slightly paranoid "rugged individualist" epistemics. Dr Google led me to this great intro to a flat earth book on Amazon. Take this wonderful sentence... "I want to switch people's brains to self-thinking mode when it comes to our earth and create a greater interest in Zetetic research with no government filters telling them what to believe; to get individuals to think about the subject for themselves, and to find out which is true, and which is false using physical based evidence" There's 3 great zingers in one sentence: "Based evidence"; "self-thinking mode"; "with no government filters". We definitely need a social psychology paper on Zetetic epistemics
Paul Bowman
2024-05-10 10:40:10 +0000 UTCThis reminds me of my Flat Earth friend trying to explain the 'Zetetic Method' to me. It's basically the assertion that you can only believe what you see with your own eyes. Kinda wild tbh, that people can think that.
Matt
2024-05-09 19:26:55 +0000 UTC👏 Flint is the man. Many good points, especially about concepts without jargon and introductory lectures for the public
Trees
2024-05-07 00:59:07 +0000 UTCIs it this one? https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-joy-of-x/id1495067186?i=1000511287326
john statham
2024-05-06 15:08:29 +0000 UTCBrilliant. Thank you
john statham
2024-05-06 15:05:28 +0000 UTCThe podcast 'the Joy of x' has a great interview with Neil Shubin on his discovery of a fossil of Tiktaalik, one of the first fishy-type creatures to have what amounts to an arm bone. This discovery was one of the major 'can't find evidence for adaptations' hole pluggers. Great interview about the nuts and bolts of digging in the mud for evidence.
Ymirsdreams
2024-05-06 14:12:54 +0000 UTCIt could (& maybe should) be a whole new supported profession! I so appreciate Flint's dedication and meticulous preparation but let's face it, not many employed academics are able to do this. It could make a huge difference in swinging the giant ball of pseudoscience persuasiveness the other way.
Suzan Lemont
2024-05-05 11:48:53 +0000 UTCAgreed! If only Joe could use his “average Joe” role to help his audience learn more about real science from actual experts. He could still play the “seeing is believing” part while being gently challenged by the scientist to help him understand why that position is problematic.
Linda Sears
2024-05-04 16:18:51 +0000 UTCFinally got to finish listening. Such great points that Flint makes, like that scientific understanding is not decided upon based on debates on podcasts and being as clear as possible and avoiding jargon is important in public science communication, which is so different from the “sciencey” gurus who use obfuscation to confuse. Since Matt disclosed that he has a fedora, I’m expecting him to wear it in a future episode.
Linda Sears
2024-05-04 16:03:09 +0000 UTCThat thing about Joe and the photograph - you know the "No, but just LOOK at it, man..." thing. It struck me last time (the episode covering the JR episode with Hancock & Flint), but I had the same response even stronger the second time. I can't articulate why, exactly, but that block on understanding that "seeing is believing" is not always a good heuristic, seems to be emblematic of the whole Rogan shtick, somehow. A kind of "lumpen-empiricism" - "I seen it with my own gosh-darn eyes!". That fundamental belief that the "ordinary Joe" is on the same epistemic level playing field as any specialist expert through the magical power of "authenticity" seems to be at the root of pretty much everything. "You don't have to be an expert to see when it's bullshit" is like a defence mechanism against a complex and confusing world where real information asymmetries threaten a loss of control and personal sovereignty
Paul Bowman
2024-05-04 13:55:36 +0000 UTCAnother thank you for a great episode. This conversation was such a balm to listen to. I learned a ton and even felt a little better about the world.
Monica B.
2024-05-03 22:47:06 +0000 UTCI think Atlantis is a cool idea too. The Disney movie is great
Reinert
2024-05-03 09:21:24 +0000 UTCI definitely support Flint Dibble's approach to having well-qualified experts taking on the pseudo-scientists. As he says, scientists and academics should indeed be able to do this given that they have to teach first-year undergraduates the basics, which often means simplifying the complex ideas and communicating them to people who don't have a lot of background knowledge. And if it can and is regularly done at that level, why not also for the general public? Also, when Chris asked Flint to indulge him with some questions of his own, I thought the question would be "What did you think of the Dawn of Civilization?" :D
Robert Andrews
2024-05-03 00:16:04 +0000 UTCThat there is a good ol' fashioned summoning circle. Soon King Julien will appear and they will all sing and dance to the cult (pun intended) classic "I like to move it [move it]"
Password1234!
2024-05-02 23:45:52 +0000 UTCCarlson's talk about sacred numbers and geometry is really cool. I don't take away any big conclusions from it, but it's still very interesting. I recommend watching, but with a healthy dose of scepticism and critical thought.
Jean-François Melançon
2024-05-02 23:43:48 +0000 UTCScott is very long winded.
Adam Sher
2024-05-02 21:56:26 +0000 UTCDibble’s careful preparations reminded me of a lawyer building a strong case while being aware of the opposing lawyer’s habitual tricks. I hope other academics who are planning on engaging in this kind of podcast/streamer/YouTube debate in the future pay attention to this episode.
Linda Sears
2024-05-02 21:48:10 +0000 UTCGreat stuff. Yes, I feel bad that I as a very long time listener only started paying my fair share recently. This is just great.
Jacob_3BP
2024-05-02 21:39:31 +0000 UTCYes, that was what I was trying to get at. He knows what expertise is when it is in an area that he has had direct experience. That is why it is frustrating when he has, for so long, embraced the ideas of Hancock without considering why experts in that field have dismissed him.
Linda Sears
2024-05-02 21:35:56 +0000 UTCYeah, like most things Scott does. I think he took a really long way to reach a conclusion that basic critical research literacy would have allowed you to reach much easier but I’m glad he reached a reasonable conclusion eventually. I think Scott and co. are actually a lot more impacted by this kind of performative summary than their philosophy would suggest they should be.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-05-02 20:15:25 +0000 UTCYeah. I think there was a short discussion on it in one of the DtG chats. The SA article was criticized by Chris if I recall as a bit exhausting and navel gazy. But it covered a lot of the debate obviously.
Maytree
2024-05-02 19:09:58 +0000 UTCDid you read Scott Alexander's breakdown of root claim competition? I liked the fact that it was a debate with stakes and Scott's coverage of it.
Adam Sher
2024-05-02 18:25:50 +0000 UTCI watched a YouTube vid of a contemporary architect giving a tour of his recently renovated flat. He dad was a well known architect who was deep into mid-century design and had collected a bunch of Herman Miller furniture and abstract art. Hmmmm, I'm now pissed by parents didn't become MCM architects and high end art collectors. If they had I'd now own an Eames chair and a FLW house.
S Garvey
2024-05-02 17:29:42 +0000 UTCgeez, I didn't watch the debate but I find Flint to be a really engaging person. Hope he keeps on speaking to the public.
S Garvey
2024-05-02 17:23:08 +0000 UTCThe Rootclaim lab origins $100k debate is another example of the requirement for deep and thoughtful preparation, and its power to overwhelm flimsy “science”, when science is on your side. An interesting aspect of that debate was the fact that the debater was not an expert, which perhaps lowered the stakes for the reputation of scientific consensus. A good article on the process was written by the research assistant for the winning side, if you have Medium. https://medium.com/microbial-instincts/my-friend-won-the-us-100-000-debate-on-the-origin-of-covid-19-8a9d3f719ce9
Maytree
2024-05-02 16:16:45 +0000 UTCReally good you guys emphasized the weeks of prep Flint devoted. Those helping with the prep might need even longer to really dig into the claims. This is what one would imagine to be necessary for, say, an imaginary debate between a Paul Offit/Peter Hotez and RFK. But would they be inclined to devote that amount of effort? Including building a prep team. Maybe maybe not, but if they didn’t, it could be a disaster is the risk.
Maytree
2024-05-02 16:05:22 +0000 UTCGreat conversation. The reason I support you guys is because I feel academics need to be more vocal at this time .I’m sure I said “I love him” at least 3 times out loud. The fedora so endearing too.
Melissa
2024-05-02 15:46:54 +0000 UTCHuge Flint Dibble fan now
Kyle Wilson
2024-05-02 15:02:57 +0000 UTCIt's already been mentioned, but: great interview. Entertaining and informative. Thanks a lot!
Roland Weber
2024-05-02 14:23:31 +0000 UTCReally very enjoyable interview. Thanks for putting in the time to do it.
Jason Trock
2024-05-02 13:53:23 +0000 UTCJoe does understand expertise. He's been involved in MMA and just jitsu for a long time. He clearly understands the nuances of what makes various fighters great. As Taleb says, he displays domain specificity, and forgets to apply the critical thinking he brings in analyzing fights to everything else.
Adam Sher
2024-05-02 13:34:13 +0000 UTCDibble is so impressive. The amount of preparation he puts in. I'll have to go back and listen to the Rogan "debate"
Níall Faughnan
2024-05-02 13:08:42 +0000 UTCThe point about technical language and how it's approached differently by professionals and heterodox thinkers is an important one IMO. One personality I haven't seen mentioned yet is Randall Carlson, a proponent of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis and one of Graham's closest collaborators. He is often held up by JRE fans as a purely factual, no bullshit kinda geologist with hundreds of PowerPoint pages, but he also never bothers to dumb things down in his episodes with Joe, resorting instead to dry academic jargon like "Bølling-Allerød interstadial", "isostatic rebound" and "Meltwater Pulse 1B". Maybe there is some merit to his work, but this also serves to obscure the fact that he's (1) not actually a geologist and (2) into fringe topics like numerology and sacred geometry. Not sure if it's on purpose. A similar phenomenon seems to apply to Graham with his grandiose prose and convenient usage of sciency terms but this point in the conversation reminded me of Carlson in particular.
Reinert
2024-05-02 11:42:29 +0000 UTCFlint and his brother Chip got to do archaeology with their archaeologist dad when they were kids?! My childhood was lame as shit.
Christy Kilgore
2024-05-02 10:40:14 +0000 UTCclever guy, I feel smarter after listening to him. So personable 🤎⚒️🗿
peta austen
2024-05-02 09:36:31 +0000 UTCBahaha.
Emma
2024-05-02 08:11:50 +0000 UTCThis is amongst your finest work. There’s been a lot of chatter about ‘missing links’ in Evolution, where we can’t find evidence for some adaptations (Those Gurus exhibiting religiosity of late, often mention this). Can you recommend a credible source that discusses this?
john statham
2024-05-02 07:25:29 +0000 UTCA team of THIRTY conspired to equip Flint with what he needed to burry Graham? 30 against 1. So unfair. I hate it when big archeology does this...
Chomagerider
2024-05-02 06:36:02 +0000 UTCBIG PYRAMID CLAIMS ANOTHER PODCAST D:
Ymirsdreams
2024-05-02 06:22:21 +0000 UTCShilling for big archeology
HustleTron9000
2024-05-02 05:53:25 +0000 UTCGreat episode. I think the freeloaders will love it. Flint did do a great job of remaining composed while being scolded. Listening to the excerpts you played in the supplemental episode I had this image of a self-important child wagging his finger at an adult while standing in front of his big, tough brother.
Aaron Holder
2024-05-02 05:48:21 +0000 UTCI’ve read about putative ritual behavior in various species of baboons, which surely gave ancient Egyptians the notion that hamadryas baboons greet the sun; and I’ve seen a very amusing video online of baboons watching two domestic cats fighting, quite reminiscent of humans watching a boxing match (proto-spectator sports behavior), even breaking it up when it got too rowdy. But WTF is going on with these ring-tailed lemurs?! https://twitter.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/1781919633324347724. They sure look like they’re worshipping something unseen, though I’d bet what’s really going on is nothing at all like that. At least this atheist primate hopes it isn’t or I’m in trouble. Any ideas?
JP
2024-05-02 04:46:11 +0000 UTCSWEEET.
JustTheWorstEver
2024-05-02 02:43:39 +0000 UTCCan someone please make a T-shirt that says, "Archeology: Just Look at It!"
Roscoe 112
2024-05-02 01:53:01 +0000 UTCDibble's prebunking approach was really effective and it was great to hear him discuss it with you. There is a small audio glitch at around 48 minutes after Flint stops talking.
Jean-François Melançon
2024-05-02 01:23:01 +0000 UTCWatched the full 5hrs of Rogan and I have to say, this guy did a better job of science communication than Anthony Faucci
Ad Tastic
2024-05-02 00:38:50 +0000 UTCLove that you guys mentioned the YouTuber Atun-Shei Films. I thought his idea about getting more specialists out there to teach people about niche topics was great. His “Checkmate Lincolnites!” series is fantastic in case anyone here hasn’t seen it.
Kelley
2024-05-01 23:40:02 +0000 UTCBoy Flint sure has a good strategy for dealing with pseudoscience.
Tim Tripp
2024-05-01 23:19:01 +0000 UTCIt was nice to hear Flint explain that expertise means having investigated hundreds of different sites. It really feels like people like Rogan just don’t understand what it means to have expertise in a field or subject, even though he would be able to tell if someone knew what they were talking about (or not) if the conversation was about mixed martial arts.
Linda Sears
2024-05-01 23:15:46 +0000 UTCFine… we can edit when we release on main feed 😉
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-05-01 23:07:05 +0000 UTCDibble’s point about “context collapse” is very interesting. I haven’t heard that term before but it seems a really apt description of the online landscape.
Nerfherder
2024-05-01 23:04:52 +0000 UTCYesss thank you! Great topic!
Anna J
2024-05-01 23:01:52 +0000 UTCI knew you guys were shills. But I wouldn't think you'd go as low as interviewing Big Archeolgy itself. Shame.
Sam Macleod
2024-05-01 22:36:56 +0000 UTCYou mean pseudo-archeology!
Guruspod 2
2024-05-01 22:34:39 +0000 UTCOh boy! This is great! You guys are putting top tier content recently.
Marius Rutkauskas
2024-05-01 22:34:26 +0000 UTC
