Yuval Noah Harari: Eat Bugs and Live Forever
Added 2024-04-05 05:52:45 +0000 UTCWe take a look at one of the world's most famous neoliberal historians to discover whether he is the great evil Alex Jones alleges, the uncultured philistine the philosophers describe, or an insightful historian as described by various TED introductions.
The Patreon folk are getting this slightly early while we make final checks, so let us know if there are any weird audio glitches.
Finally... WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF TOMORROW!
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Harari's coinage of "fictions" is able to do so much work because it's so ill-defined. In Harari's telling, social contracts are fictions, social constructs are fictions, corporations are fictions, money is a fiction, fictions all the way down. I suppose that might be a useful eye-opener to someone who comes from a naive hyperrealist viewpoint, but it immediately becomes useless once it's adopted, since one must to abandon the word for others (words that are already available!) to make any useful progress.
Greg T-K
2024-06-08 10:29:42 +0000 UTCHas he seen Ghost in the Shell?
Shifty Comfort
2024-04-10 14:08:27 +0000 UTCMy husband is a huge Neal Stephenson fan; his favorite is the Baroque Cycle. I didn't find Yuval to be boring like others did. I think I'm just happy not to hear people shouting at one another, like Hasan Piker, or making outrageous claims, like Jordan Peterson or the Weinsteins. To each his own.
Linda Sears
2024-04-09 21:23:00 +0000 UTCI thought he was using the term fictional to remind us that, in most cases, the borders are human created rather than natural. From what I understood, he was saying that these “fictions” are very powerful and have real consequences. I felt like he overstated the idea that wars are only about fictions, unless he includes the feelings of having power (economic and political) over others as a kind of fiction. Nations do gain real advantages for themselves when they conquer another nation.
Linda Sears
2024-04-09 12:48:41 +0000 UTCAgree. Reaganomics took the social safety net and ripped big holes in it. My brother-in-law likes to say that trickle down economics is actually the wealthy pissing on the poor.
Linda Sears
2024-04-09 12:30:23 +0000 UTCAfter listening I wish you’d cover David Graeber and Neal Stevenson. Infinitely more interesting “big idea” academic and speculative fiction author. Yuval is just boring and pedestrian.
Martin Birch
2024-04-08 21:37:24 +0000 UTCYeah, I'm not sure 'fiction' is the best term? It kinda implies a level of arbitrariness and control over them (as when writing a literal fictional story) that's not really there.
John S Durst
2024-04-08 19:19:02 +0000 UTCAren't his fictions just Dawkins's memes?
Rob
2024-04-08 13:51:42 +0000 UTCYeah was hoping to shed some light on that. It was touched on with the neoliberalist globalism points. I guess it's related to that since globalism is a big boogie man of Alex Jones, which apparently is also a dog whistle for a jew. YNH is all of those things.
Níall Faughnan
2024-04-07 08:49:00 +0000 UTCLoved this ep. One thing that does grate is Chris and Matt’s kidding-but-not-kidding embrace of the term ‘neoliberal’ (which Matt correctly points out is not evinced by Yuval here — more a faith in a liberal world order). I’m guessing Japan and Australia did not have their public institutions gutted quite like in the US. It’s not that funny here — the rise in homelessness, drop in life expectancy, Welfare funds slashed, all since Reaganism took hold. I walk past tent encampments every day.
Jesse Rimler
2024-04-07 06:52:44 +0000 UTCHmm, I feel we need an extra episode why the conspiracy addled think he specifically is the antichrist. What am I missing?
Marcin Junczys-Dowmunt
2024-04-06 22:43:27 +0000 UTCI would have been thrilled to listen to Yuval when I was 16, but now it's fairly boring.
David Noble
2024-04-06 21:19:03 +0000 UTCThe Mattrix Relouded.
Ymirsdreams
2024-04-06 17:12:23 +0000 UTCI think the point he was making is that they didn’t have to because it was just a known reality.
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 17:02:10 +0000 UTCThat was great!
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 16:26:32 +0000 UTCThe whole uploading consciousness idea really bothers me, probably because I’m an identical twin and have been asked far too many times about whether we feel each other’s pain or experience each other’s thoughts. The definitive answer is no. And as much as we are very similar, I will never be able to be in her body and vice-versa. I think Matt was a little too dismissive of Harari’s ideas since your average person isn’t going to have read lots of speculative sci-fi. But he did admit to being grumpy for not getting enough sleep 🛌 (go back to the Mattrix, Matt)! To be fair to Harari, he started by saying that he is highlighting the potentially negative sides of AI in contrast to those who are only touting its inevitable advantages. You made good arguments that humans can and have done much harm without AI and that Harari indulges in hyperbole, too much speculation, and some doomerism, which make his points weaker. At the same time, history has shown us that we barge forward at our peril, so being cautious is better, in my opinion, particularly because we are emotional beings. My main worry is that we will become overly dependent upon AI, both intellectually and emotionally, to the point that we become more detached from reality and stop having necessary oversight over crucial decisions as this article appears to show: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes.
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 16:26:19 +0000 UTCMy sweet golden retriever of a brother in law got me a copy of Sapiens for Christmas. Bless his heart, he’d just never thought about any of this stuff before.
Christy Kilgore
2024-04-06 13:30:15 +0000 UTCMe too! I liked the Ren and Stimpy reference. Space Madness, Stimpy’s Fan Club, Sven Hoek, and Ren’s Toothache were great episodes if anyone wants to get a taste of that particular brand of genius.
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 12:24:10 +0000 UTCIt looks like Matt and Chris are going to have to employ their kids as youth consultants since our demographic skews older.
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 12:20:07 +0000 UTCI was an entirely in person teacher previously, so it was a big change.
Linda Sears
2024-04-06 12:17:47 +0000 UTCYou had me at muppets. Here's the best puppet snippet I've ever seen. (Narrowly edging out the Boogiewoogie sheep.) How to deal with death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDt8ATNTZo
Ymirsdreams
2024-04-06 10:04:42 +0000 UTCDoes not! lol
Joe Romel
2024-04-06 05:35:45 +0000 UTCAlso, Wowbagger used what would nowadays be called an AI to track the alphabetical list. And that AI did make a mistake. So much of relevance in there! 😄
Roland Weber
2024-04-06 05:02:16 +0000 UTCThis counts!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-06 04:58:13 +0000 UTCDon’t worry. You are the only Kyle.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-06 04:58:04 +0000 UTCI have a little side gig as an educator, so I got a whiff of the problems you were facing. In my main job, transition to the home office was pretty easy.
Roland Weber
2024-04-06 04:55:52 +0000 UTCAlso, not sure if I got a shout out or not. Think I heard a Kyle x2. I don't pay all this money to be reduced to a x2, Chris. 😀
Kyle
2024-04-06 00:50:01 +0000 UTCAww man I didn’t get a shout-out! Is the wait list long or something?
Joe Romel
2024-04-06 00:35:46 +0000 UTCThanks! 😉
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-05 23:54:28 +0000 UTCNot finished yet but I just feel that there is a point being missed here. Of course, totalitarian regimes have existed in the past, might even be in our near future without AI. But surely we can propose that such a state with advanced AI would be several degrees worse than one without those capabilities. I think that's Yuvals point. And I agree with him. Imagine how hard it would be to organize and maintain clandestine resistance or facilitate the escape of at risk populations as has occurred in the past in the face of such a well equipped state. That is a situation worth worrying about surely.
Kyle
2024-04-05 22:53:25 +0000 UTCIt’s me Chris! It’s me!!! I have been waiting for two years for my shoutout!! LILLIE from Wyoming!!🙋♀️ great episode, and still waiting 😘
Lillie
2024-04-05 22:50:44 +0000 UTCIn case you didn’t see it typo in the show note “neoliberal historians” instead of “neoliberal historian”
YellowDreams
2024-04-05 22:17:46 +0000 UTCYes, that is a valid concern.
Linda Sears
2024-04-05 21:35:08 +0000 UTCTrue, althou I worry if speed of change will outpace the pace which people can effectively be trained or retrained at
Daas Nahk
2024-04-05 21:26:38 +0000 UTCIt seems to me that many of us will have to be trained and retrained to keep up with rapid changes, which usually causes anxiety and stress for most people. One of the most stressful parts about being an educator during COVID was having to completely change how we did our jobs without much time to do it.
Linda Sears
2024-04-05 21:22:35 +0000 UTCWhen some well-known figure says things that seem obvious or trite to me, I usually think that there are plenty of people out there to whom it is not obvious or trite. 🤷 Regarding the jobs-of-the-future discussion, I do believe that technological development has sped up significantly, compared to decades ago, let alone centuries. Even if most people will find other ways to employ their skills, it does create an atmosphere of uncertainty. That has an impact on the well-being of people today, and on the decisions they make. Decisions about their professional career, about whether to start a family at all, how to guide their children, or about whom to listen to and give their votes in countries that have actual elections. Chris seems to be more relaxed about this topic than I am. The software industry is one area where AI is currently causing major shifts. I'm a software developer and much prefer to develop software, rather than trying to trick an LLM trained by somebody else into doing the things it is supposed to be doing, while preventing it from doing things it is not supposed to be doing. Some of my co-workers are spending time on HAP filters (Hate Abuse Profanity) for LLMs. Sure, I could learn that if I have to. Doesn't sound appealing to me though. With less than 15 years to retirement, I hope that I can keep working on things that I like, and that those are still considered useful enough to get paid for. Anyway, never mind. Thanks for this decoding!
Roland Weber
2024-04-05 20:06:01 +0000 UTCOh god, that discussion about immortality was *such* a missed opportunity for Matt to mention Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged - the guy in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy who became immortal by accident, and got so bored that he decided to personally insult every living creature in the universe, alphabetically. It somehow feels that that could be how Chris would end up spending eternity - once he'd got through all the toxic podcast content in existence.
Dries T.
2024-04-05 19:30:56 +0000 UTCTurned 54 a couple of weeks ago.
Roland Weber
2024-04-05 19:17:40 +0000 UTCPeople who believe all borders are fictional and war are about fictional things are missing the fact that most territories are actively ruled by someone and that reign has very real consequences
aneladgam_varelse
2024-04-05 18:40:53 +0000 UTCGreat recommendation with the novel Blindsight
Anonymous ethicist, not a serial killer at all, just asking questions.
2024-04-05 17:27:23 +0000 UTCI like the bit where Chris says: "you know, it is fair to say he wrote a book called Human Deuce, right.."
Spartacus Mills
2024-04-05 16:08:36 +0000 UTCI was waiting for the monkey magic music :(
Zack Katopodis
2024-04-05 15:42:59 +0000 UTCLet me tell you something, you haven't even begun to peak. And when you do peak, we'll know. Because you're gonna peak so hard that everybody in The Gurosphere's gonna feel it.
Matt
2024-04-05 14:49:42 +0000 UTCHaha so did Matt get the Chocolate Rain guy reference? Surely not?!
Dries T.
2024-04-05 14:14:01 +0000 UTCGood episode, although Chris’ stubbornness on the jobs topic made me like Yuval more. Just because some jobs keep their name and we can safely predict there will be doctors and farmers and accountants 50y from now it doesn’t mean that the set of skills to exercise those jobs will not change drastically, like some have changed in the previous 50.
João Barbosa
2024-04-05 13:40:53 +0000 UTCIt seems like there are waves in creators/audience associated with different platforms. If you got into classical podcasting via podcast apps, the median is probably above 35 now. And the content of this podcast is largely Twitter popular dudes which also skews that way? But YouTube centric podcasts they are talking about feeling old because they just turned 30, are getting married, having kids for the first time. A bit unfortunate for DtG because there are baby gurus / grifters repackaging Jordan Peterson, Tim Ferris, Huberman, etc for 18-25 on YT, more of the 25-35 on Reddit, although I’m too old to know what they are looking at specifically.
rooftowel
2024-04-05 13:11:52 +0000 UTCI have to admit that of all the gurus so far, I enjoy Harari’s voice the most.
Linda Sears
2024-04-05 12:36:20 +0000 UTC200, 000 downloads in a month! Just think 800,000 more and you have to give Apple 30% of your earnings.
john statham
2024-04-05 12:31:47 +0000 UTCLove the intro song for Streamer Academics Season. Disgusted though that we didn't get a musical drop again when Matt mentioned Monkey Magic. You 👏 need 👏 to 👏 do 👏 better 👏.
Alex H
2024-04-05 12:19:18 +0000 UTCWe’ve got much older listeners!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-05 12:13:35 +0000 UTCDid people in the 11th century appreciate the predictability of their economy? That doesn’t pass the sniff test.
Adam Sher
2024-04-05 12:12:45 +0000 UTCI’m almost 54, which makes me old, and explains why so much of this culture is alien to me.
Linda Sears
2024-04-05 12:07:13 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the resurrection of the Mattrix (X2), but not nearly as much as the newly discovered town in the Swiss Alps where a shady Cabal meet each year: DAVEos indeed, Dr. Browne.
john statham
2024-04-05 12:02:40 +0000 UTCHave you guys considered looking into Donald Hoffman as a potential guru? https://medium.com/paul-austin-murphys-essays-on-philosophy/professor-donald-hoffman-a-prophet-of-scientific-idealism-or-a-charlatan-7c468a365015
Shane Partington
2024-04-05 11:37:02 +0000 UTCThe stuff he (YNH) was coming out with at the 1:05 mark, i found it reminded me some strange way of much of the David Thewlis soliloquy in "Naked" (Johnny and the security guard). And now i'm really stuck on the idea of using an AI to voice swap Thewlis' and Harari's voices, tho not enough stuck on it to actually do it.
Andrew Condon
2024-04-05 09:49:47 +0000 UTCHonestly no idea but I’d guess 30-50 is overrepresented
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-05 08:14:28 +0000 UTCWe clarified!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-05 08:05:54 +0000 UTCSacrilege! I bet the pictures suck.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-04-05 08:05:33 +0000 UTCHow do you guys understand AI? Just transformer based LLMs? I always took it as the marketing / student of business term for machine learning. Hence recommendation engines would naturally fall under the AI umbrella. Asking because you carved them out of the AI discussion.
mobitobi
2024-04-05 07:58:19 +0000 UTCJaneway is a great textbook for anyone who wants to go beyond the kurzgesagt picture book on immunology. Look Chris‘n‘ Matt, you build your own natural intelligence recommendation engine!
mobitobi
2024-04-05 07:56:38 +0000 UTCAs an eminent German philosopher once said: Sport ist Mord
mobitobi
2024-04-05 07:55:08 +0000 UTCI'm like a year or two older than Chris, so yeah, one foot and all that… haven't torn my shoulder doing pull-ups yet though 🤞😎
Empty_Cognizance
2024-04-05 07:00:29 +0000 UTCSo what are the audience demographics? Am I an old? 😳
mobitobi
2024-04-05 06:41:56 +0000 UTCGot my bowl of crickets ready
HustleTron9000
2024-04-05 06:14:19 +0000 UTCSynchronicity!
James P.
2024-04-05 05:59:35 +0000 UTC
