Conspirituality Interview Episode (Early Release)
Added 2023-09-18 15:17:46 +0000 UTCA mostly edited version of the forthcoming release this week.
We have a discussion with the Conspirituality guys about well... Conspirituality, their approach, whether they still like yoga, etc.
Also, enjoy a brief return to the horrific realm of Scott Adams...
Comments
Hi! I feel the same way. Matter of taste I suppose.
Kerena
2024-01-21 19:55:23 +0000 UTC(this is a totally superficial comment and doesn't weigh on the actual subject matter of the interview. I just need to get it out of my head because it's been bothering me) I love Conspirituality's subject matter and used to listen to their podcast, but I just find their manner of speaking to be too pretentious for me (except Derek, I like him). Maybe pretentious isn't the right word, I just get a vibe of "Our podcast is very important and we are very important". It's almost the same vibe I get from the gurus covered in this podcast. Maybe it's their long experience teaching yoga influencing the speaking style, I don't know. I guess I mostly listen to podcasts for the "down to earth" atmosphere.. That's why I keep listening to Chris and Matt. Wonder if anyone feels the same way.
JJ
2023-11-10 18:30:29 +0000 UTCFor sure! I don’t know how Russell will be able to “damage control” his way out of it if he keeps going on like he does. 😬
Dee the Lobsterdancing Bananaland Dinosaur Monster
2023-10-07 14:44:37 +0000 UTCMike's [sic] dreams will be much more nightmarish now in light of recent revelations, no doubt.
Robert Andrews
2023-09-26 00:28:44 +0000 UTCFrom my perspective, having listened to many episodes of Conspirtuality and read their book, I do not find them as being dismissive of yoga as a practice that can help people. I don’t think they would be so critical of those who abuse the practice unless they saw some value in it.
Linda Sears
2023-09-21 12:31:15 +0000 UTCThey definitely seem to be performing characters to some extent. Perhaps, it is that performative aspect (the postures, vocal styles, clothing, gestures) that clue us into their charlatan nature.
Linda Sears
2023-09-21 12:18:20 +0000 UTCI appreciated the conversation about podcast ethics. The fact that you all deeply consider the responsibility and influence you have is a big difference between you and the gurus. On another note, Matt, besides letting us know Felix’s gender, you did not tell us the more important fact, is he is a good boy or not.
Linda Sears
2023-09-21 12:13:14 +0000 UTC@Kevin I'm not trying to "getcha". I just see someone who, in my opinion, has singled out what they think are telling giveaways of the conspirituality guys' weaknesses or blind spots and then gone to town on proving it. I've been listening to the podcast (theirs and this one) since nearly the beginning. I don't have the impression or recollection of them dismissing yoga as "just stretching". Very recently Julian made a point of saying that he still does yoga every day, and Derek does too. As far as I can see/hear, they've been pretty careful not to trash the people who love yoga/be sensitive to why it might be important to some people. It's also their job to dissect and reveal all the tangled threads and the history that makes yoga and other wellness practices such a hotbed for cultic behavior and I'd rather concentrate on that, than on trying to find proof that they're too biased and sloppy to do that job properly. From what I've read of your gripes, it *feels* like a personality or style issue (I admit my feelings are not facts/that I do not *know* this for sure). It happens. So now I'm not blowing you off but this conversation is probably not going to actually move the needle/do anything for either of us so I am going to disengage and wish you well (sincerely, not fake new age wishing).
Suzan Lemont
2023-09-21 08:14:17 +0000 UTCThe review acknowledges some big limitations in its results, but does justify a call for further research on the influences of mindfulness based practices in relation to PTSD. Therefore, it's too early to foreclose on body-based practices as more than just stretching.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-20 21:55:00 +0000 UTCHere's a systematic review that supports practices such as yoga for PTSD, which includes two RCTs. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8619958/
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-20 21:41:08 +0000 UTCMy response about polyvagal theory was in response to the query as to how yoga is more than just stretching. It was an example of how it might be more than stretching, not dogma. Resmaa Menakem and his book My Grandmother's Hands would likely support yoga as a somatic practice good for healing trauma, for another example that maybe meets your approval. My claim is to demonstrate how Conspirituality is hyperbolic and polemical in flattening such a practice to "just stretching." I expressed the very same critique on the Patreon page for Conspirituality and the only response I got was that they thought they read somewhere that LSD was in sacraments. They shared an article which referred to LSA, which is not LSD. A factual error. Crickets after that, and as far as I know, they never responded to my other critiques, because I divested some time after. Their description of psychedelics and schizophrenia as similar and that they are the result of different parts of the brain communicating are unsupported. Using schizophrenia to undermine psychedelics perpetuates harm on people who are labeled with that diagnosis or experience voice hearing. Not that I think that you are interested in dialogue, as you tried to catch me in a "gotcha," but that's what I have to say.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-20 21:29:59 +0000 UTCJust starting my listen and am enjoying Mike’s recall of his rather jarring Russell Brand nightmare 🤣 so far!
Dee the Lobsterdancing Bananaland Dinosaur Monster
2023-09-20 16:38:59 +0000 UTCPolyvagal theory is not completely accepted; there is a shit ton of confusion and skepticism around it. I'm also a dance movement therapist (since 1993) and trauma therapist, and I do not subscribe 100% to *any* of the theories being put forth by older, white, male, Colonizer-centric raised researchers (and since you bashed the conspirituality guys for their (supposed) faux pas of perpetuating beliefs about the "savagery" of indigenous peoples I find your casual tossing of Porges theory into the mix rather disingenuous and hypocritical). I take what feels and I know to be right from each of these theorists and throw the rest away, or more often, I lean on what I learned from teachers I had well before these guys started claiming the attention with their supposedly novel discoveries about the body-mind connections and integration and the 1000s of hours of experiences I've had since then.
Suzan Lemont
2023-09-20 15:32:21 +0000 UTCI do not read any of that into their discussions and reporting. I remember this point of contention for that episode and the dispute about LSD and I don't remember it being nearly as contentious as you are claiming Kevin. Maybe they aren't the only ones who are biased? ;-) Again and again I hear them take on relevant and kindly delivered criticisms and examine their own stances, which can, and do, change over time and with new information.
Suzan Lemont
2023-09-20 15:20:08 +0000 UTCI stand corrected. Still there are more cults in their histories than there are co-hosts, and I posit that the propensity for black and white thinking is apparent in the Conspirituality podcast. They do a good job of not being polemical in this podcast.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-20 01:49:48 +0000 UTCDerek was never in a cult.
Tim Tripp
2023-09-19 19:08:11 +0000 UTCRennie, in his 'An Ethology of Religion and Art: Belief as Behavior' argues (rather compellingly) that Religion is a form of expression on a 'spectrum' with what we currently call 'Art'. What this interview made me ponder was: Do modern secular Gurus use Scientific/scientistic ideas as a medium for artistic self expression rather than how traditional Gurus used Religious / Religiosity ideas?
Ymirsdreams
2023-09-19 18:28:56 +0000 UTCIt seems to me there is a tension in the conspirituality world between the view that nature and the body are pure sources of wisdom/expertise and the view that the body must be tamed or controlled so that it can become a perfect vehicle or temple of the spirit. In one instance, the body is the savior while in the other the spirit is using the body to save itself. The aspirational images of ideal bodies seem to tell us that the second view is often ascendant.
Linda Sears
2023-09-19 16:26:47 +0000 UTCMy main complaint is with the episode they did on psychedelics, which had factual errors (Amanita mushrooms don't grow on shit & there are no LSD-containing natural sacraments), unsupported biomedical reductionism, as well as the mistaken, outdated hypothesis that psychedelics "mimic" psychotic processes. They also perpetuate colonizer attitudes about the "savagery" of Indigenous peoples and invalidate the lived experience of, and perpetuate debunked biomedical theories about voicehearing people.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-19 14:07:01 +0000 UTCYoga is also a form of exercise. My point isn't that yoga is all that but that the Conspirituality guys are hyperbolic and seem to have an ax to grind with people who are similar to themselves a number of years back. Seems like a blind spot to me, and in any case is more polemical than journalism ought to be.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-19 13:55:48 +0000 UTCGiven the understanding of the nervous system that has been brought to light by the Polyvagal Theory, it is a way of focused somatic attention and movement that has been highlighted as a method for settling the nervous system and healing from trauma. I'm not into yoga, but it as a trauma therapist it does fit into the somatic practices being used by many practitioners these days.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-19 13:51:29 +0000 UTCThanks!
Christopher Kavanagh
2023-09-19 12:26:37 +0000 UTCEric Weinstein voice: "Oh, you like to flex? That gives me a bad feeling in my body!"
Robert Andrews
2023-09-19 10:44:48 +0000 UTCKewl!
Robert Andrews
2023-09-19 09:28:40 +0000 UTCFlexing
Maarten Wesselius
2023-09-19 07:07:21 +0000 UTCWhat is yoga if not just stretching?
Rod Hodges
2023-09-19 06:46:08 +0000 UTCMight want to check the outro. I thought I was being abducted when the music played lol
Jenson
2023-09-19 06:28:22 +0000 UTCNope!
Christopher Kavanagh
2023-09-19 04:33:06 +0000 UTCIs this the same discussion that has already been released on the Conspirituality podcast?
Robert Andrews
2023-09-19 03:23:22 +0000 UTCI got turned off Conspirituality after they went out of their lane by stating they knew the mechanism of action in psychedelics was due to altered communication between areas of the brain, which was the same kind of thing that happens in schizophrenia. The biomedical model of schizophrenia has not mustered evidence for its theory, and psychedelics are way behind due to their prohibition. They also perpetuated colonizer narratives uncritically when they tried to dunk on psychedelics by stating that the human sacrifice that happened in Mesoamerica shows that psychedelics are not enlightening. They also make a mistake by referring to LSD-containing natural substances, of which there are none. Seems to me they have a reactionary bias due to having been seduced by cults and it affects their ability to report the facts. Saying that yoga is "just stretching" is reductive, even considering all the abuse and graft that has gone on.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-18 20:34:35 +0000 UTCPersonally, I find the Conspirituality guys to still be reductionist in their thinking, as they were when they descended into cults. Now they're smug about eliminative materialism as the only viewpoint that is valid.
ROU Sentient Lichen
2023-09-18 20:12:44 +0000 UTCUnsurprisingly enjoyable conversation! I was glad to see Matthew acknowledge he’s been Naomi Klein pilled. I like Matthew but he has treated this concept of “the mirror world” as some sort of profound jewel of knowledge - as if she has developed a metaphor so elegantly powerful that it has clarified his thinking in deeply transformative ways. Given his self-admitted susceptibility to charismatic leaders, it’s hard not to see his treatment of Klein’s work as a similar tendency towards a sort of devotion or fawning over a person communicating big ideas. Again I really like Matthew but his recent coverage of her work has just felt a little over the top. Always nice to hear crossovers like this even if they’re a bit self-indulgent!
Kyle Wilson
2023-09-18 19:44:52 +0000 UTCI've listened to all the crossover episodes I think, and though some of it is repeated, there's always something new, or nice to be reminded of what nice, sane guys you all are. I really appreciated the discussion on staying humble/how you all deal with criticism. And Scott Adams - barf! What a smarmy weasel! So disingenuous. Who cannot see through that? Just smh.
Suzan Lemont
2023-09-18 19:42:32 +0000 UTC
