Malone & McCullough Episode Released
Added 2022-01-14 07:05:27 +0000 UTCI'm sure you have all seen by now but the newest episode was released after marathon editing sessions by Matt.
This was probably the least enjoyable episode we have recorded because the disinformation was so relentless and the topic is so grim.
Nonetheless, it was probably an important episode to do and has been our most successful episode downloads wise on day of release (around 11k). This is a good sign because it suggests that people want to see responses to these kinds of figures. Alternatively, pretty much all of our recent guru episodes end up being our most popular so far... which I guess is a good sign too!
Anyway, that's all metric stuff that Matt & I genuinely have little idea about how to interpret, outside of the numbers being bigger than we ever anticipated and continuing to trend in a positive direction.
This post is not to engage in podcaster bragging though, it's to provide a space to gather any feedback you might have on the episode. We will be recording the Gurometer episode soon too, so anything you would like us to address please ask.
Next up is Robert Wright, but we do have an episode with Aaron on James Lindsay & Michael O'Fallon to record. We are going to try and have fun with that one though...
Thanks everyone!
Comments
For folks of this ilk, what is the motivation for governments’ malevolent tyranny strategies? Does anyone in these circles offer an explanation? Do they say the powerful become more powerful? Is it geopolitical maneuvering for WWIII? This is something I’ve always wondered. Forgive my conspiracy hypothesizing here, I’m just addicted to asking why..
Blake Lever
2022-01-25 21:25:15 +0000 UTCGoing off the shade thrown for mentioning epistemology, am I right in thinking that someone with bad epistemics is someone with a bad relationship to knowledge or whose processing of knowledge is bad? I’ve heard the word thrown around by everyone from Terence McKenna to Sam Harris but always have a hard time getting a simple definition
Allan Hutton
2022-01-24 20:11:05 +0000 UTCJust when you think Rogan cannot be more egregious it turns out he says....Chim-Pansy. Like. Nails. Down. A. Blackboard.
Andrew Mac
2022-01-17 14:50:26 +0000 UTCA bit of a marathon this one! Worth doing though. I hope it circulates widely because these people are bad faith actors and are contributing to spreading vaccine disinformation that results in misled people refusing vaccines and dying needlessly.
Paul Bowman
2022-01-16 18:48:06 +0000 UTCJust finished the episode. Wasn’t looking forward to it because Rogan is so torturous to listen to and 3.5 hours of it seemed daunting. But after listening I have to disagree with the reviewer from the end of the episode: every minute was worth it and I now stand firmly in the “long episodes are good episodes” camp.
Joel H. Dinolt
2022-01-16 00:41:16 +0000 UTC“Anti-vax, arrogant, credulous fool” - summed up in one phrase at around 2h25m. Nice
Sean Carmody
2022-01-15 23:48:25 +0000 UTCJoe Rogan is garbage, and usually easy to discard along with the fish scales and banana peels. But this episode so importantly and vividly illustrates the toxicity of his supposedly unbiased platform that it should be required listening. I especially appreciated Matt's clear, level-headed directions for lay people to determine whether a seemingly good source of information is actually valid. This is what we should be teaching in our high schools today, first and foremost.
Christie McCormick
2022-01-15 19:12:09 +0000 UTCThat was awful. I do worry about your abnormal levels of tolerance. You must be imagining a great reward in the afterlife. I was swooped on by an 'expert' feminist account on Twitter earlier in the week that seemed to think Simone De Beauvoir was gender critical. The account got loads of likes for their weird comments. Ahh! This is how it works, I thought.
Nina Davies
2022-01-15 18:48:25 +0000 UTCYeah I was just shocked by the blatant “it’s a plot!” style that unfolded. I remember seeing the episode where Neil DeGrasse Tyson explained why astronauts looked like they were moving in weird ways on the moon and seemed to deprogramme Joe from the moon conspiracy but now it looks like all hope is gone. I just envisioned Joe tied to a chair in a dark room and out of the shadows steps Sam Harris donning a pair of black leather gloves getting ready to administer a rationality beat down/deprogramming 😂😂😂
Allan Hutton
2022-01-15 12:08:02 +0000 UTCLouis Theroux was the first ever episode I watched of JRE too. It must have been about 4-5 years ago now. I had been looking for Louis Theroux content and stumbled across it. I remember enjoying it and started watching more episodes of people I liked (Brian Cox, Sean Carroll, Roger Penrose etc). He did seem much more reasonable then and genuinely humble and curious. He’s always been a conspiracy nut though. With CoVid, he thinks he’s found a conspiracy which he can legitimately sound the alarm on. Even the most charitable reading of his podcast - he believes it and genuinely thinks he’s informing the public of a danger - doesn’t excuse the extent of the misinformation and the demonstrably false claims which could be easily refuted by a quick fact-check.
Ciaran Mullan
2022-01-15 10:40:36 +0000 UTCWhat a fucking joke this guy (Joe) is. I used to watch on and off and enjoyed him with Louis Theroux and Jon Ronson. I was actually introduced to Sam Harris watching Rogan. I even enjoyed the odd Joey Diaz episode just for the outlandish stories. I actually found Joe through Graham Hancock as I used to lap that kind of shit up (no longer do). But this one just broke any interest I might have had in watching Rogan. It just builds and builds and (with your help) seems to just fit the template of a classic scaremongering scam of sorts. The vested interest angle is the same one as Andrew Wakefield employed so it seems to be the anti vax scammer playbook of choice. I also saw yesterday that members of the American medical establishment wrote to Spotify to complain about this episode in particular. Good on them, and good on yous, you must be busy men and we all appreciate the time and effort you put into doing this. Best episode yet!
Allan Hutton
2022-01-15 09:45:52 +0000 UTCWe bought the patents to all intellectual property even remotely related to the term 😎
Grammaticus Gore
2022-01-15 03:09:06 +0000 UTCExactly. I hadn't heard it either. I heard it for the first time on the show, although I've seen it's started doing the rounds on Reddit.
Ciaran Mullan
2022-01-15 03:06:12 +0000 UTCCheers Tom!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:05:07 +0000 UTCCheers!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:04:55 +0000 UTCCheers! We felt less bad after a bit of distance from recording but listening to those takes for multiple hours just grinds you down.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:04:47 +0000 UTCThere are always reasonable versions that you can create out of their points but I think what McCullough was alleging was much farther than safety concerns of healthcare workers were considered too. He is suggesting that is ALL that mattered and doctors were terrified and unwilling to treat patients. That's lies.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:03:59 +0000 UTCWhat Heather said... plus Bob has thick skin.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:02:25 +0000 UTCUs too!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:02:00 +0000 UTCI'm not sure. Matt and I have discussed this at length and I think at some point intention becomes meaningless. They have a postmodern definition of truth.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:01:51 +0000 UTCThat was a particularly bad example though... I doubt many people have heard that kind of clip before they go on.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:01:02 +0000 UTCYeah I think I am growing more appreciative of open partisans. At least they admit what they are.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 03:00:05 +0000 UTCThanks Charlotte!
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 02:59:28 +0000 UTCOh God so you guys have now claimed all epistemology chat as your own. I'm not surprised just disappointed. 😏
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-15 02:59:08 +0000 UTCThought some of you might also enjoy this video of an OBGYN take on Joe https://youtu.be/zbOqQNMY3os
Emma
2022-01-14 22:56:57 +0000 UTCI understand what you mean! He's just so obviously misogynistic. And I've heard other clips where he expresses a similar level of homophobic hate. And yet many male scientists who I otherwise respect have in a way endorsed him by appearing on his show, and I some cases actually referring to him as a friend! I mean I understand they are using him and his large audiance to try and get their message out. But how can they not see how toxic he is?
Emma
2022-01-14 22:36:57 +0000 UTCAgreed -- I work in podcasting and have a coworker who listens to his every show, and while I think of him as a good person, hearing Joe call her an idiot before she could even complete her sentence -- and then all the crazy crap after that -- made me pause. Is it possible to listen to stuff like that and dismiss it? Doesn't it somehow worm its way into your mind and soul?
Molly Jacobson
2022-01-14 21:59:45 +0000 UTC"Joe Rogan. He's an anti-vax, arrogant, credulous fool" is a well-earned summary judgement that somehow caps off and justifies this entire journey of this long-form podcast, to-date - and promises much quality to come. Last year, I would have thought such a criticism of a pod-caster with Rogan's reach was "punching above you class" -- as it arrived, it seemed just right. These things aren't easy to predict, of course, but I am hopeful. Thanks, yet again, for immersing yourselves in the darkness and keeping your heads about you for the rest of us.
Tom Allison
2022-01-14 21:27:13 +0000 UTCThese characters were tough to listen too but its important to counter this nonsense.
Justin F
2022-01-14 16:44:31 +0000 UTCYou make a ton of apologies of the style "We're sorry we had to expose you to 3 hours of this" or "We're sorry we had to cover these two people" etc. Now I'm sure it's painful for you both to have to create an episode like this but I want to make it clear as a viewer I absolutely LOVE this episode and episodes like it. Nothing is more interesting than seeing the biggest most dangerous bullshitters in the world having their statements analyzed for red flags. The high stakes with which they are making their claims only makes it more exhilarating to have them broken down. And as for a public service, if that's something that motivates you, these episodes are right up there. They are doing tremendous work and after listening I'm motivated to up my patreon donation amount <3
Tasty3141
2022-01-14 14:10:12 +0000 UTCOne small thing i'll disagree with and one aside. I think there certainly has been an emphasis on protecting healthcare workers for good reason. A lot of the problems with COVID come from the hospitals being overrun. You wouldn't want an outbreak of COVID in the ICU 2 weeks prior to the peak of the surge. Healthcare workers in general have low transmission rates among family members because of just how cautious they have been. Therefore I think pointing out that a strategy of the COVID response has been to protect first responders is valid. 2
Tom
2022-01-14 13:48:11 +0000 UTCNot every subject gets a takedown. They’ve done good or benign gurus as well - Carl Sagan, Anthony Demello for example. I would say that everybody covered gets a look for positive elements, but some just don’t have m/any.
Heather Geverding
2022-01-14 12:05:38 +0000 UTCHaven't listened yet, confused about Robert Wright being next? He's like my other fav podcast. Looking forward to it! :)
bron stoll-engelsen
2022-01-14 10:23:39 +0000 UTCI struggled hard through this one. Really. I ended up walking around the kitchen table alot of times over the three hours. Thanks Guys, you did a bang up job!
Kyle s
2022-01-14 10:06:06 +0000 UTCI couldn't believe it either. Took alot of strength to do the rest of the podcast and not just block/ignore anything to do with the guy. But I did love how the primatologist was laughing at him.
Kyle s
2022-01-14 10:02:04 +0000 UTCThank you for ploughing through all of this. I tried to listen to the McCullough episode just to get an idea on what was being said but I couldn't get through it. I am just at an absolute loss as to what causes people like Malone/McCullough to torch their reputations like this? Do you think they actually believe what they're saying? Some of the stuff McCullough came up with (like the Johns Hopkins seminar) is so obviously wrong he MUST know he is lying?
Jim Murray
2022-01-14 09:45:14 +0000 UTCThe bit where he was yelling at that female primatologist made me want to immediately unfollow anyone who has ever been on his show. What a man baby!
Emma
2022-01-14 09:28:14 +0000 UTCI just finished this episode. Enjoyed it a lot and think you both did a very good job of highlighting the rhetorical techniques and obfuscations being used. You didn’t pull any punches with Rogan either which I think is important. There should be no doubt in anyone’s mind at this point that he is pushing an agenda. Which he should own and be upfront about - like J B Peterson saying he’s ‘apolitical’ - it’s a slimy tactic. Anyway, great episode! Looking forward to the next one.
Ciaran Mullan
2022-01-14 08:30:00 +0000 UTCThe guru lens shows its usefulness here. You are brilliant at contextualising the various details of why these guys are batshit without getting dragged into the weeds. I can imagine that this one wasn’t much fun to make but it’s very impressive. Thank you (I’m only half way through, need to take a rest for my sanity).
Charlotte Goodall
2022-01-14 08:19:04 +0000 UTCGood plan.
Christopher Kavanagh
2022-01-14 08:09:31 +0000 UTCHonestly if you want to feel a little bit less depressed covering these guys, I suggest that maybe you use hand puppets to play Rogan and his guests.
JGraves
2022-01-14 07:33:40 +0000 UTCFor two guys who were bagging out philosophers a month ago, I was surprised to hear variations of the word epistemology used so much throughout the episode. It’s almost like this project, decoding the gurus, is more philosophy than it is science🤷🏻♂️🤭
Grammaticus Gore
2022-01-14 07:13:38 +0000 UTC
