Dishwashers. Again. (but with new info!)

This has really gotten into my head. I'm curious how different agents to prevent mineral deposits forming on glassware vary between the different brands and types (pacs v. gels etc.) and why gels and powders don't perform as well as pacs when used similarly. If they're the same stuff, that doesn't add up. Meanwhile I'm still trying to get my parents (and husband) to stop pre-rinsing. It's like they're part of some kind of denialist conspiracy theory. Their glasses are etched to hell and back; my (retired engineer) father seemed to come to an understanding when I got to the chelating agents in dishwashing detergents but I have yet to see a change in behavior. I reckon I should try to get a life.

Michael Brown

Ah, I always fill both cups completely or fill the prewash and put a cascade pod in the main; use high temp and pots & pans (we have hard water). If I don't then I have white stuff on the dishes.

WildMartin

I just learned these pacs are made of plastic (PVA). Thats another good reason for me to switch back to good ol' powder!

Nate072

I hate doing dishes, and thus love dishwashers! Pretty much a necessity, rather than a luxury, if you ask me. As you rightly point out, no one would accept having to do their laundry by hand anymore so why do dishes that way? But hey, to each their own. I am, however, slightly disappointed with my current machine. Every few loads would come out oily, and/or smelly, prompting me to run yet another program on the same load again. Extremely annoying, as it's a premium brand machine and I'm also in the habit of always using the plutonium mode (70°C or higher). For me, a dishwasher should also be essentially an autoclave. I like my dishes CLEAN! So I've been using plenty of dishwasher cleaner, thinking that something was stinking up the sump, as well as my patented home made rinse aid (more on that in a bit). But nope, still smelly dishes every now and then. After your previous video, I thought that maybe it was a detergent issue. Although I still use the same brand I've had in previous machines, so I was skeptical. So, I put two tabs (pods, whatever) in. One in the compartment, and another in the bottom of the dishwasher for "pre-wash". Big fail. That's just a detergent overdose as you rightly point out. So that wasn't it. But, I finally figured out what the problem with my machine is! It's another design flaw. This one even has its own trademark. They call it "AquaSensor". "Oh, cool," the consumer might think, "my new dishwasher has some sort of built-in intelligence for even cleaner dishes!" If only. What AquaSensor instead does is to analyse the water quality of the previous cycle using a photodetector. If the water is deemed "clean enough", some of it is reused for the next cycle (even the final rinse)! The idea is of course to conserve water... However, the problem is that the water can look clear to the photodetector, and still be filthy with invisible smells and oils! I also don't live in the desert, so water is cheap and plentiful here. Really don't appreciate this cheapskating on water, causing me to get dirty dishes, new machine! 😡 But I've figured out a solution. I still run the plutonium mode for every load, AND I now also press the "Express" button. This cuts down on washing time by almost an hour. According to the manual, "Express" will use more water in order to get the dishes clean in less time! Sure enough, the dishes were actually cleaner than before! ...until I ran a load with some particularly greasy pans. Yep, grease was all over my dishes once the program was done. Stupid AquaSensor again! So now what I do is to run an ADDITIONAL quick program (35 minutes at 45°C), without detergent. This means the machine takes in fresh new water for what's essentially an extended rinse cycle, and now I REALLY clean dishes! No oils or smells anymore. So yes, I have to run my loads twice, but it actually takes less total time than previously when I was just running the regular 70°C program... Still wish my machine would just do the dishes properly to begin with, though! Oh, and about that rinse aid: I've switched to using pure distilled white vinegar (12%). Works amazingly! Glassware really shines like nothing I've ever experienced before. Much cheaper too. Also can't seem to overdose it, so I've just cranked up my machine's rinse aid dosage to 11. Like I said, I want my dishes CLEAN!

Per Hedetun

I’ll second his Honorary Brit nomination.

Darryl Walker

Late into this but three things jump out at me: 1) the snark is perfect - I propose that you’re immediately adopted as an honorary Brit. (Leaving aisde the whole British isolationism/exceptionalism kick we seem to be on right now.) 2) Kudos for the head-on approach to “yeah, that last thing… might not have been 100%.” 3) Y’all plumb *hot* water to your dishwashers, and have a heating element out in the open to bake things dry? That’s *wild*!

That was a great video. The whole hand washing bit had me laughing out loud! Well done. And well argued too. Who knew reading the directions could lead to improved product performance?

Mr. Hunter Jones

Your dishwasher has a button that tells it you are using tabs? Wow - S sounds fancy! I'll have to remember that if I ever need to replace mine. Please note that my dishwasher is at least 20 years old, so I feel lucky it has a button to turn off the heated drying cycle - that giant electric element at the bottom that (when used) essentially bakes the dishwasher like an oven. BTW: This is usually why some items are marked as top-rack only for dishwasher cleaning. If your d-washer has a similar button, try it out - it should allow you to load both racks with whatever you want. Just test it with a single item you're willing to replace to make sure. P.S. Sorry that salt storage thing is such a pain. In USA salt that doesn't contain iodine is readily available at the supermarket. Perhaps try that? This comment was not intended to be pesky or snarky in any way. My apologies if any of it appears so.

Mark G

Please note that, in the introduction, this video is only mostly (ie partly) in response to comments. At 4:00 Alec very clearly states that "detergent dosing" is THE point of this video. (It's also the video's title.) That's very much a "slice of life rambling" that you claim to appreciate in the channel's other videos. It's also a the primary reason most people are under-utilizing their dishwashers while over-using the dishwasher detergent. None of this is clickbait. Please reconsider your comment, and - if you have a dishwasher - try putting a bit of detergent in the pre-wash section and using the regular or full wash cycle.

Mark G

Interestingly, the manual for our dishwasher says to run the tap until the water is hot then turn on the dishwasher.

Jeff Murri

The whole Dishwasher Saga feels like clickbait. The last video was full of hot takes about How You're Doing It Wrong and felt like engineered controversy. This one, you say, is entirely responding to the credits of that one. Feels far afield of the mix of light science and slice of life rambling in other videos, and hopefully it's not a trend.

Stephen Gillie

I can’t wait to hear it for the pros and cons of HE detergent and HE washing machines vs the old agitators. Same arguments and concerns about time, water usage and those tide pods!

As an homage to the recent loss of Norm MacDonald, I suggest the snarkiest video ever.

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

My wife, who often overhears your videos when I play them as background noise, was really offput by "you lot." "HE'S NOT BRITISH, HE'S CLEARLY FROM HERE!" (She, a black/latina/native Britainophile born and raised in DC, really disdains us midwesterners)

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

Was definitely wondering how many takes the fast talking part took.

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

Can you please make your "this is soap" comment to my wife? She insists on packs because she claims I have spilled the powder (outside of the dishwasher) in the past.

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

Those are the three brands we use, but sub Dollar Tree for Great Value. If Dollar Tree is out, we use whatever Menards has, so we can save 11%

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

(these are the same comments I made on YT)

Dan ''Spiffy'' Neuman

Nice. I appreciate that you were trying to figure out where the comedy would land; it sounds like you have several viewers outside the USA so that can make things challenging sometimes. My partner is Taiwanese-American and the amount of jokes I have to explain... Anyway, also enjoyed thinking about my favorite dishwasher product, rinse aid! If you don't want to use all those products, there is likely a charitable organization that can take them off your hands.

Benjamin Rippel

I've found that the case generally; people blame the product rather than admit even the slightest possibility of their own incompetence. Just look at Amazon reviews for just about anything! I'm tempted to also refer to the Dunning-Kruger effect, but I find posts misusing that concept as well, ironically, so I'm trying to discourage more references to it. Really, this is why we can't have nice things!

Chris Daniels

As a pesky European, I have to tell you that the implementation of salt storage in dishwashers sucks hard. First - it eats lots of it. I mean 2 kg package of it barely lasts with 2 people household for 2 months. Also, the hole for it is at the bottom of the dishwasher. Usually, it's sold in a huge paper box filled top to bottom and the hole in the box is not on top. That means you spill the salt everywhere but the hole. And then you try to scoop the salt from the greasy wet bottom of the machine by hand and put it in the hole. Leaving them there is not great, because the crystals are large and sometimes don't dissolve fast enough. That could fuck up the cyclic pump. Also, you cannot replace (as an emergency) the dishwasher salt with kitchen salt because of iodine, which is added to kitchen salt. They say Iodine will damage the water softener somehow. Anyway. The marketing here is this - if you use the all in one tabs, you don't have to use salt and not even rinse aid. So many people choose it. And the dishwasher has this button that tells it that we indeed use the tabs, instead of all those other things and the sensors for salt and rinse aid are not used to warn you, that you ran out. That is why so many people use them. Tabs mean that you don't have to buy 3 things and refill them all the time, just push the button, put a tab in there every time and that's it.

Hey, me too!!

Jacob Keller

I have just become a Patreon supporter on the back of a video about dishwasher detergents. Life is strange.

Stephen Pettitt

A reasonable proportion of people seem to think that because they can't get a dishwasher to work properly it must mean that no one else anywhere can and that this common kitchen appliance must be fundamentally flawed. A bit like if I couldn't drive stick shift and rather than realising it was because I didn't properly know how to, instead deciding that it can never work for anyone and wondering why some people keep saying that it does work. Some of the dishwasher complainers seem to leave clean dishes in the machine for ages before taking them out, then notice an odor on the glasses which isn't there if they are removed soon after the cycle is finished and decide hand washing is the only way to avoid this.

Lumo

I have a Miele dishwasher with built-in water softener. I've been a bit of dishwasher connoisseur for several decades now.

Arnold de Leon

I rather like the snark. It's basically how I make it through the day at work (it's kind of one of the things I'm known for there).

Chris Crowther

I highly enjoyed the snark, but it was also a good call to put it all at the end

kalleboo

i definitely would enjoy a video talking about washing machines and different types of laundry detergent.

randomAlienVisitor

I think I definitely learned something new. At least now I know the gels have less stuff in them and also makes me question the use of liquid laundry detergent, which is also mostly just solvent. By the way, how hard is your well water? I’m in San Diego and I think we pretty hard water.

The cup on my bottle of laundry soap has markings from 1 to 5, and the instructions recommend filling it to 1 for normal loads. I've been filling it to 1 for years and I've never had a problem with clothes not coming out clean.

Michael Dunn

I appreciate the dishwasher and detergent follow-up. I also chuckled aloud when you said, "If you're happy with your dishwasher, clap your hands."

Don Eitner

Great job, Alec.

Allen Boogaard

You might pay less attention to people in the comments (yes, even me, lol). No reason to get so annoyed over the many random asshats who are simply convinced they’re always in the right. It’s like fighting with the wind. Plus, as you mentioned, then the people who weren’t arguing and were just happy to learn something new are the ones who get to deal with the fallout in the next video.

Spectre

From now on every time I fill up my salt I will feel all smug and superior. It might compensate a bit for my weak 600W microwave inferiority.

Magnus Köhler

I wonder what happens if you use rinse aid on your photographic film and Photo-Flo in your dishwasher. Please Alec, do this experiment so we don't have to. You've already harnessed the magic of buying both of them;)

Mark Hesse

Just wanted to say I don't think there's ever too much snark, but my opinion is probably in the minority.

Dest

I've not even watched the video yet, I just wanted to give some love for the t-shirt.

Martin Deutsch

We had to get a new rack for our dishwasher, and the one our repair service got us blocks the main wash door from opening. So, we pour a gel, do the pre-wash (almost exactly 15 minutes so we use a timer) then open up and put in the main wash soap. Now I know why the main wash compartment has graduated levels like an open-strip mine. It's for our water softness.

Mike Bird

Definitely your next tirade needs to concern laundry detergent. How many people reflexively fill that ginormous cup/cap on their laundry detergent bottles when, if they read the instructions (which I'm sure the detergent producers hope you won't) only 1/4 to 1/2 the cup/cap is needed unless loads are unusually large or unusually soiled. The world needs TC to set it straight on this issue.

Craig Brickey

I took a closer look at the Bosch dishwasher in my office after your earlier videos. Not only does it not have a pre-wash soap compartment, but if you put a glass in _just_ the right place in the top rack, the glass blocks water from getting in to the regular soap compartment during the main wash cycle. So it's a double dose of bad design.

Michael Dunn

We learned the “run to hot water” trick on last video and it massively helped … and now see it is labeled soft water / hard water with a line, in the dispenser!

Ian Cull

My issue with dishwashers/detergents is all about smells. I'm sensitive to certain smells, particularly some detergents and many fragrances. We only run the dishwasher every 2 or 3 days, so I do a quick rinse of plates to reduce smells, then still have to deal with detergents! Our water is naturally very soft so we could use less detergent. I started using powder and found something I could handle. Then it seemed that only gels were available. Again, took a bit to find something that I could handle. Now it seems that only tablets are available!! The powerball tabs work for me, but I still wish I could use less! I still smell the residue.

Michael Steeves

Alec, after reading some of your tweets relating your problems in producing this video, I think you've done a particularly good job in answering the questions that had arisen in the original video and also find the fact to snark ratio appropriate and entertaining. I think this video should be labeled: "TC Dishwasher Complete" Now with 2X the answers of TC Dishwasher Original Formula!

Mark Hesse

When it comes to clothes washers, my washer has a tank for the liquid detergent and it automatically dispenses it as needed depending on the size of the load. That is enough reason for me to not to use powder or pods. My assumption is the reason dishwashers haven't done something similar is that the more constrained dimensions doesn't leave room for a tank large enough to do any good.

Colin Blair

The dishwasher episode is what pushed me to become a Patreon supporter. I had terrible experiences with dishwashers not cleaning dishes thoroughly. I was amazed how much difference the "pre-wash" soap made! Now, I scrape larger pieces into the garbage then load into dishwasher. Thank you!

Dre

Also, it might be interesting to look at countertop dishwashers in general, especially if any of them have particularly unusual designs: https://www.amazon.com/s?rh=n%3A19201451011 I'm not 100% sure, but I think the dishwasher I have was under $200. I have an EdgeStar DEP62SV 6, which is discontinued, though there are newer versions available.

Elsie Hupp

A few other questions: Is there any meaningful difference with the various "eco-friendly" detergent brands out there? (One of the bodegas near my apartments sells only Seventh Generation, and the supermarket nearby was frequently out of dishwasher detergent during the supply chain shortages earlier in the pandemic.) https://www.seventhgeneration.com/dishwasher-powder-detergent Also, I don't know how familiar you are with your European colleague, Techmoan, but he reviewed a mini dishwasher called "Bob" that it might be interesting to look at. Among other things it uses a weird detergent cartridge (which, yes, is reusable). Also in general it could be cool if you connected with Mr. Techmoan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVup5ya0WVQ

Elsie Hupp

Personally I absolutely love your snark, so I can't say I agree with your "seeing the light" on that issue, but I suppose the American portion of your audience can get some collective panties in collective bunches, so I understand you wanting to tone it down a smidge.

Arni Bjorgvinsson

If our water was any harder it would be out starting fights on a Friday night up the town.

Chris Crowther

Dishwasher salt is edible, and contains nothing other than sodium chloride. And yes, the "dishwasher" variety is sold at a premium. I buy 2 kg (≈4 lbs) bags of regular coarse salt for my dishwasher as it's much cheaper. ... and for cooking I happen to use various gourmet varieties instead, none of which are pure sodium chloride. The "impurities" impart a different flavour profile. Funny that.

Per Hedetun

The rigged-up tubing reminds me of this other YouTuber who has some cool videos with physical demonstrations of erosion and other hydrological phenomenon: https://www.youtube.com/user/gradyhillhouse A video with physical demonstrations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNM4DGBRMU

Elsie Hupp

Ah, child labor: the Victorian panacea.

Elsie Hupp

Why not both? Documentaries lie to you anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jelo4bliA1Y It's bad, folks: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNkfKT_xRl1N0XVKzxS4FXG2YAlB6pfJR

Elsie Hupp

Owning... Yourself (?) With Facts And Logic?!? Humility is the best!

Elsie Hupp

Definitely on Team Powder here, both for dish washers and (laundry) clothes washers. I too like being able to vary the amount used to match the “amount of cleaning required” (eg number of items, or how in need of cleaning they seem). I’m now also curious if “dishwasher salt” is just a similar course salt to used in salt grinders. As that’s easily available here, whereas “dishwasher salt” doesn’t seem to be (and also we don’t have particularly hard water, which is probably related; my dishwasher does have a “salt dispenser” but I’ve never used it, and it seems to work okay without here). Ewen

Ewen McNeill

Snark is half the reason I subscribed. If I wanted regular well researched information I'd watch a documentary.

Kevin Maher

Good content! Laundry powder detergent observations sound interesting. Reading what I just wrote, I'm not sure if I'm old now, or if this is just well presented.... I guess they're not mutually exclusive possibilities.

Jeremy

I like the way you make your argumentation, no faking, no commercial, but just the facts, well researched! The whole BS from the industry about their new soap being better... And about people not wanting a dish-washer: my father is such a type. When we were kids, the argument was of course: the kids should do it. When he moved to a new place where there was actually a dish-washer build-in, he removed it, because "it takes too much space and hand washing is anyway better, more economical etc." Didn't understand that, my dishwasher is the most perfect machine in the home :-P. I switched now to eco-detergent, just powder, works perfectly fine!

MrHammond

About the water use being constant: at least on my dishwasher (a Siemens model and i'm in Europe) the water use isn't constant and varies based on how dirty the water has become. The manual says this: aqua sensor - "clean" rinsing water can be transferred to the next rinse bath and water consumption can be reduced 3-6 litres. If the turbidity is greater, the water is drained and is replaced by fresh water. My clothes washing machine (Bosch) does something similar and you can even see it suddenly cut an hour from the remaining time based on various sensor input. But thank you for the insight on North American dishwashers. Macerators, not using salt - we in europe are barely aware of how different the dishwashers in the USA are.

Richard Bevan

It shouldn't be now! I just worked through the first 17 minutes. The rest will come later tomorrow, I'm out of steam for tonight. So now you'll get to see how much I vary from my as-written script upon delivery! It's actually quite a lot!

Technology Connections

Cheeky snark? Yessssss, please! Of course, your thoughtful insights on such a wide range of random devices are also appreciated. FWIW, I became a Patron and we started adding a cheap gel to the pre-wash cycle ever since the release of your first DW video. Thanks!

Gary Graham

I solved that "problem" the easy way: I took on the task of loading the dishwasher and start it, and have kids empty it. Dishes are clean. No complaints from my spouse on this arrangement !

Raphaël

Caption polish: at 10:56, the f* word is in clear in the caption ;-)

Raphaël

Getting my wife to watch these videos has become my white whale. I’m like your Qanon obsessed second cousin except for dish washers. I just need you to sit through these videos! Then you’ll see the truth the whole world bas been lying to you! Edit: To be clear I do the dishes most of the time. But the inferior performance of the washer when I don’t load it now drives me nuts.

Ryan Butler

This is fantastic. As an appliance repair technician, this really fleshes out a lot of what I already know and have observed.

This. This is why I'm a Patron!

This seems like a deep rabbit hole of a tangent, but 'stickin it to the man' and buying the cheap brand really makes me wonder, how many cheap brands are just rebranded 'name brand'. The roll call of cheap store brands is hilarious. Keep up the awesome work. For the record, I used to use the cascade original. , It did not clean worth a dang, though it was the washer, but it did not get better, even after cleaning. When I went to the 2X it cleaned much better. Nautually I did not read the labels at all, and just assumed 2X was 2X better and being soap. And moved on. The bleach thing explains why the 2X does not reek to high heaven when I put it in. For the most part, we don't have powders in Canada, or I've not noticed them before.

The saga continues.

Kent Scipione

Thank you for your attention in including those of us in the Deaf and hard-of-hearing community.

You asked for help with the first dishwasher video, so I'd like to volunteer my idea: "Dishwashers: The Squeaky-Clean Sequel"

Steets

The dishwasher video was my first introduction to your channel and why I eventually decided to be a Patron. I want to give you more money than $5 a month. Any chance of adding more $10 tiers?

MustangsbyMatt

Man, I was JUST in Chicago. Twice. Not that anything woulda changed but at least I could made a post in the community section like, "yo, wassup from illy!" ^o^

Ketafuki