A video about dishwashers and why detergent packs don't make sense for them

Wow, this video (which I only just recently watched) and the followon is changing our lives. I watched it with my wife again later, and when you talked about not pre-washing things and the dishwasher doing it all for you, she turned to me with this wide-eyed / amazed expression. I then shared it with several other people, all of whom had a similar reaction! Seriously, it has changed everything! Thank you!

Christopher Kemsley

Our old dishwasher was ONLY compatible with the powder or liquid stuff, as its soap basin was too flat & fat. Unfortunately, that didn't help that dishwasher at all. However, we continued to use the cheaper powder (not the more expensive packs) after getting our current dishwasher, and it works!

I’ll never look at my dishwasher the same again. Thanks for this handy tip and making the case so well (by sacrificing your old dishwasher in the process).

Bill Bates

Truely interesting video this helped me realise what a little extra spot next to the detergent hole was for as my dishwashers manual is quite poop at explaining things I now run the eco mode seeing as I now know how to use a properly. Thank you

Pierre

Did your dad happen to work in a commercial kitchen? What he says about sanitizing is true for the type you'll find there (not residential ones though)

This video had a appreciable effect on my life. My dad always told me the the dishwasher was only for sanitizing dishing with heat, not actually washing them. So i've always hated the dishwasher as addition to hand washing. But now i just stick dishes in the washer and let it handle all the work. And save water to boot! thanks!

Preston (Bilskirnir)

Another great video from Technology Connections! I will never again deny my dishwasher a dose of pre-rinse detergent.

Salt in the dishwasher! Aka a built in water softener for your dishwasher. The scary compartment in the dishwasher, tied with the unmarked prewash spot. When I discovered the salt compartment and what its for, it turned my previously believed to be crappy dishwasher into a pretty good dishwasher. The prewash compartment should make it a really good dishwasher.

Today I loaded the dishwasher with caked-on pans and plates that had been sitting in the sink for a couple days. Ran the faucet until heated water flowed and threw an extra pod in the bottom. Results were fan-freain`tastic. I think I'll switch to powdered soap once these pods are gone.

Al Davis

An update: My two-Finish-bricks idea worked. My nasty, baked-on stuff came out looking great.

V.E. Griffith

Great video. I also use powder/liquid for the same reason! I would respectfully disagree about the phosphate being irrelevant though. I've compared using the Cascade professional (with phosphate) and without, and there is a marked difference. Regarding the hot water-I use a hot water line recirculator which ensures hot water at-the-ready at the dishwasher line. Gotta look for the little chopping blade next time, I'm stuck cleaning out food bits from the straining screen.

Brian, did he explain why he didn't like the liquid?

What model KitchenAid dishwasher did you get? My dishwasher just broke and I want to get a new on

So after this video, I'm actually using my dishwasher. (I live alone and barely cook, so who cares?) But I have a bunch of finish tablets to use (left over from my ex), so i threw one in the tub before washing, and one in the sealed cup. we'll see how it does.

V.E. Griffith

Lived in an apartment where the sink had only hot water and the dishwasher sucked. I checked the pipes, and something didn't look right, so I swapped one of the sink lines with the dishwasher one. Then, my sink had hot and cold water, and my dishwasher worked much better. No idea how long the cold water was plugged into the dishwasher, possibly decades.

Stephen Gillie

This video made me support you on Patreon. I have this exact dishwasher and this makes so much sense.

Changed my life.

Chad M Jones

You taught me to use the prewash department. You have my dollar (and my sword and my axe).

Andy Goergen

My Bosch only has one big cup for detergent, but it also appears to have 3 little openings on the top of the detergent cover (similar to those near the prewash cup on yours). I'm curious if it's maybe able to let a little water in during pre-wash to allow some but not all of the detergent out, and then release the rest of the detergent when it slides open the entire cover during the main wash - can't figure out why there would be partially covered slits in the top of the detergent cover otherwise

Thank god someone else mentioned this. I've ruined non-stick pans in the dishwasher before I knew it'd be ruined. To be fair, I don't know if it's because it comes in contact with the metal inside the dishwasher, or the detergent/cycle...

Patrik A

An additional thing I like to do is run the garbage disposal for a few seconds before starting the dishwasher. My dishwasher drains through the disposal so if it is backed up, the dishwasher water will end up in the sink. This actually happened to me a couple of times before I figured it out.

nobody

I posted this on the video, but it's probably more likely to reach you here...Regarding the window...silicone isn't the best substance for it. It's designed to act as a sealant, but not a glue. If you want to use silicone, you should hold the window in securely with bolts and use the silicone only for sealing. In the cases where you're trying to both seal and glue, you want either polyurethane or a polyurethane/silicone blend, probably a marine product. If you're using polycarbonate or acrylic as a window, you want a blend that's safe for the material.

2018 cheapo Samsung checking in. No separate cup for pre-wash, but do have a divot on the cup with a vague symbol that looks kinda like ⫴

Leo Herzog

This video finally convinced me to become a patreon. Seriously! I have a Bosch dishwasher and most washes everything comes out fine but sometimes everything just has a weird film on it. I totally suspect the randomness is due to whether or not we were running hot water from the sink before starting the DW. Most times we tend to start the washer after washing a couple things by hand in the sink. But not always. And I bet it's those times with no hand-washing before hand when we've gotten the dingy dishes. Also totally going to start putting some extra detergent in the basin since (confirmed) Bosch DWs do not have a pre-wash spot.

Paul Baker

The basket on the bosch is to catch the tablet when the dispenser door opens. The tablet then sits in the basket being sprayed with water instead of just dropping into the water in the bottom of the dishwasher. If you open the dishwasher partway through the cycle you'll find the tablet there.

Richard Bevan

My 4yo Kitchenaid has a pre-wash compartment. My 1yo Bosch doesn't. My Bosch actually has a basket at the front end of the top rack that the instructions say is where packets are supposed to go. That's where I've been putting them, and somehow all my dishes come out perfectly without pre-rinsing. On my KitchenAid, I put the packet in an unused silverware cup, and I get the same great results. I agree that it's counterintuitive, but it works!

Thanks for another wonderful video. I'm sure you've had a million people tell you about European / UK cold fill being standard, but I thought I'd mention that Bosch changed to single pod designs at least 12 years ago here in the UK. I bought a dishwasher when I moved house in 2009 and it doesn't have a pre-wash compartment. This surprised me as at the time I was using powder rather than pods. However it has become increasingly hard to actually find powder in the UK. However, the ancient but wonderful dishwasher that my mum still has and uses daily (a 31 year old Bosch model, still on it's original heating element!) has separate main powder and prewash compartments, so the standard bosch soap dispenser clearly used to work this way!

Andrew Chappell

I also expected some explanation about the "pack" itself - which the video totally ignores and the same story would be relevant to dishwasher tablets. The video is about the concept of pre-wash and how you can't split a pack/tablet into the main and prewash compartments, not about what differentiates packs/pods from tablets.

Richard Bevan

Oi. I really wish my biggest issue with dishwashers was addressed: that people can't load a dishwasher to save their life. I've always lived with housemates, and they'll just throw it in there whereever and however it fits, completely without regard for how it'll be washed that way. That's how you get dirty dishes. That's the biggest problem with people complaining about dishwashers. I tell people, just put it in there, and I'll sort it out before I run it. Folks are amazed at how well our dishwasher (actually the same model as yours, just with 2 fewer buttons, but the same font/style/layout inside and out) works. It's because of the loading. Plates are across the front of the lower rack, angled towards the lower spray. Bowls across the back of the lower rack, 3 tines apart, nested slightly inside each other. Cups along the sides of the top rack. Plastic containers across the middle of the top rack. Pots and pans in the bottom as they fit, not obstructing the top sprayer arm rotation. Voila. Clean every time. But I did learn about prewash at least - as I was a pod guy too! Maybe I'll pick up some powder next time...

Matt Falcon

This video totally made my night. Wonderful split between extremely informative and hilarious rant. :D

I was hoping you'd show how much of the detergent pack was left after the wash cycle was done. In theory, the packs are supposed to replace a separate rinse-aid. If the pack has completely dissolved in the the wash cycle, it will have no rinse-aid to offer to the final rinse and dry cycles. Modern dishwashers rely upon a rinse-aid during the final rinse to help the water shed from the dishes easier. There are two main reasons for this. The first is obvious: no water = dry. The second is that the drying action in the dry cycle doesn't come from the heater beneath, but rather the latent heat that was stored in the dishes from the preceeding hotter final rinse. Dishes can only store a finite amount of heat, so if there is a lot of water beaded up, the dishes will cool without making all of the water evaporate. A corrolary to this is that plastic items always come out with beaded water on them as plastic does not retain heat. I've worked in the appliance industry for a long time, always in customer facing roles. It's become extremely common for end-users to complain that their dishwasher is poor at drying. I'd posit that the primary reason for this is because they are not using a seperate rinse-aid, just the packs, and there's just simply nothing left of the pack by the time the final rinse happens. PS, another bad thing about the packs is that you cannot control the amount of detergent that you're using. I live in a very soft-water area and a little bit of soap goes a long ways. Too much soap causes lots of problems with dishwashers, including damage to seals and damage to dishes (etching).

If you press the photo of the dishwasher the video will play

achoo

The ones I use (major name brand in the US) contain an uncompressed powder and some liquids contained and separated by a dissolving plasticky-gel substance. As the wash goes on, more of the containing substance dissolves. The few times I've opened the washer mid-cycle it seems like the part with the powder dissolves first, and the liquid parts later. The are several similar products on the US market with maybe different ratios of powder to liquid, diferent colors, and likely different rates of dissolving the containing substance.

nobody

Excellent as always. I'm glad this now exists to refer to when I make a point about detergent. I was, however, horrified by talk of putting a non-stick pan into the dishwasher. If nothing sticks to your pans despite the dishwasher detergent, you are truly blessed.

Joshua Blanchard

Why does putting a pod in the detergent dispenser make any difference compared to having powder/gel in it? If it's made of the same ingredients, why does it matter if it's in a pod or not? (As long as you're not just throwing it in the tub, that definitely is a bad idea)

PseudsPie

Is a detergent "pack" the same as a tablet? at least in europe we have dishwasher TABLETS (a compacted lump of detergent powder) and what you show as detergent PACKS are similar but with some liquid visible also. The video makes no mention of what the liquids in the "pack" are and for me that's the difference between a pack and a tablet. The dishwasher in the video looks like a european one from about 40 years ago - exposed heating element in particular and you still have the basket for cutlery instead of the slim third level and newer ones automatically open the door to dry things at the end of the cycle.

Richard Bevan

Wishy-washy made it in, and thank you! I like it!

Technology Connections

are you going to do a video on the rinse aid cycle?

Brett Walton

Same here in Norway. I've also never seen a dishwasher with a plastic tub before, even the cheapest ones are stainless steel here. Same with water heaters, I was quite surprised when I learned that US water heaters can rust.

Thor Syvertsen

We bought a new dishwasher this past winter and the installer guy said to used packs or powder but not to use liquid dishwasher soap. US, new Kitchen Aid door is just like yours.

Brian Miller

We use the dishwasher pod things not because of cleaning effectiveness but because we live in a hard water area and i got tired/lazy of using the rinse agent cup. The pods do an okay job of preventing spots on the glassware that’s good enough for me. Also, never get a DW with a filter. Some of them are difficult to access and no fun to clean.

nobody

The first time being a patron has probably SAVED me money. I got finish tablet samples when I bought my Bosch dishwasher and, sure, why not, it must be recommended? Looking forward to changing my day-to-day behavior on the back of the information you nerded out on to get, and, crucially, to then share with us/me. Thank you! I so enjoy all of your videos (I hate saying "content")

Fun fact: I believe many dishwashers use wax motors to release the detergent door, which are interesting in their own right!

Josh Dick

I would absolutely love it if this were a thing! Pacs that come in pairs, with a baby one for the pre-wash

Technology Connections

Coming soon to your supermarket, Pre-wash Pacs by Cascade!

Kevin Kostka

I always wondered why my new dishwasher, washed poorer then my old one. But when i think about it, i switched from powder to packs at the same time... makes so much sence! With powder I always over filled the main cup and left in on the door to be used in the pre-wash!

Well had no idea our dishwasher had a “prewash divot” in the lid till today (same Kitchenaid brand); now we get to see if anything changes on the next run!

Ian Cull

On regional variations: Every dishwasher I've seen here in Australia is plumbed into cold water and does all the heating itself. Just as well too seeing as my hot water takes forever to heat up. I mainly use tablets in mine and I'd never even noticed the pre-wash section before!

Cameron Steel

The plumber from the TV show, This Old House, found out the hard way why you need to use the proper detergent in a dishwasher--he even uses the term 'foreshadowing.' https://www.thisoldhouse.com/plumbing/21124615/why-dishwasher-soap-matters

Mark Hesse

My sister bought a house that had a newly remodeled kitchen including new Bosch dishwasher. This pleased her as she had never had one before. This machine, however took what I thought was an inordinately long time to run a cycle--about 3 hours. Consulting the manual revealed that no setting would result in a shorter run time. Now this was a very quiet machine which led me to hazard a guess that in order to run so quietly, the jets were possibly putting out less water or at least reducing the force, thus lengthening cleaning time. It doesn't really matter to my sister since she never uses the machine anyway and just washes by hand since it gets the job done faster.

Mark Hesse

I agree, in principle, that using detergent in the pre-wash will be more effective -- but, at least for me with my non-fancy "landlord special" dishwasher, my dishes come out completely clean even using a detergent pack in the main wash and nothing else. (And, for the record... I don't pre-rinse by hand -- that's what the dishwasher is for!) It may have to do with what I eat, how I load the dishwasher, or some other factors. So... if someone's having trouble with their dishwasher, they should absolutely try adding detergent to the pre-rinse! But, for me, it doesn't seem to be necessary. My parents have a Bosch prewash-cup-less dishwasher, and it's extremely effective at getting absurdly dense loads clean. So, for whatever reason, it seems they've engineered around it. I think there's a lot of work the pre-wash can do even without detergent, as there's often a lot that can be removed mechanically. I also think results at the end of the cycle are more important than results at the end of the pre-wash, as shown... it doesn't matter much to me if the pre-wash was less effective, if the overall results are satisfactory!

It's just more time, more fills, and perhaps more heat.

Technology Connections

alright, so now that you have a window in your dishwasher, maybe you can answer this question for me: What does the “Pots and Pans” setting do?

Matt Goldman

It makes perfect logical sense to have detergent in both fills. There are surely enough people who don't have problems using pods, but I also hear a lot of grumpiness surrounding modern dishwashers.

Technology Connections

The regeneration salt is an extremely rare thing here. I skimmed the manual of a Bosch model that had a salt compartment, but I've never used a dishwasher which had such a thing. I have very hard water, and while this occasionally presents problems, proper use of detergent and rinse aid has been fine at keeping limescale at bay. I just periodically run Glisten dishwasher cleaner (which is citric acid) through it and it tackles all of it just fine. The other thing is that whole-home water softeners are sorta common in the US, and if you had one then there would be no point to the dishwasher having its own. That may be why they're a rarity over here

Technology Connections

"Dishwashers and Detergent Packs: A Match Made in Marketing"

alphawhiskey

Thanks for enlightening, I now see my (European - Swiss) dishwasher also has this pre-wash bin, just not marked as such (the other one is also not marked, V-Zug doesn't want to mark everything in 4 languages). I'll try to see how good it works ;-). By the way: I only used powder until now ;-). Then 2 other questions: you briefly mentioned the "rinse aid", I guess that's what we call here "Glanzspülmittel"? Do you know how it works? And the second thing: the regeneration salt, or don't you use that in the US? Or, maybe, you were planning on a video about that? ;-)

MrHammond

(yes! with video thumbnail being Alec looking at a dishwasher with an amazed expression) 😲🥣🍴🚰

Deviant Ollam

Solenoid or wax motor. https://www.partselect.com/Repair/Dishwasher/Will-Not-Dispense-Detergent/ for examples.

Raphaël

My parent's families were on two sides - one Team Soak It In The Sink, and one Team Let The Dishwasher Do It's Job. I grew up exclusively on gel, but both my parents and myself have migrated to packs - we rarely, if ever, used prewash. For the vast majority of cases, this (perhaps also with a sense of when the load is bad enough to use the "heavy soil" cycle option) has done fine for me (team no soak/no prewash) and my parents (effectively team soak/no prewash). That said, we also live in a place with extremely soft water, which I'm told may make a difference. Anecdotally and personally, I think that your other observations - ensuring hot water supply and that the washer's filters are clean - have much more effect on the overall result than the presence or absence of the prewash detergent. The one exception you illustrated would be excessive amounts of solid fat, which my households tended not to have. A full 120F should be able to melt butter, lard, and vegetable shortening, but might not be able to get suet and more exotic stuff. I can see how a loaded washwater dipping even a little below temperature in a fat-heavy environment could cause problems, and the emulsification could indeed be very helpful in such an environment. Personally, in my household, the biggest reason for dishes not coming out clean is misloading (dishes being shaded from the jets) and one very specific type of soiling (bone-dried salsa in cereal bowls - use your imagination to insert a bitter glare aimed at someone out-of-shot) that's so stubborn even two full washes won't clear it.

Travis Snoozy

For years I've used pods and don't pre-wash. No complaints. Also, detergent boxes saying to fill both reservoirs completely is like oil companies suggesting you change your oil every 3000 miles.

Wolf

And here I am googling "detergent packs"... is that just another name for detergent pods/bricks?

Raphaël

The "no known relation to Zephram" actually made me snort water through my nose.

Nate D

Superb alliteration in this one.

I just had a look at mine - 3years old - and it has one

Sebastian K.

You didn’t answer the one question I really have: how does the dishwasher open the detergent dispenser?

Whaddya know! I've wondered why it does this, though I noticed through all the plugging and unplugging I did that it does the same flashing when it first powers on. So I would wager it's a power supply issue on the main board. It doesn't seem to have much ability to detect errors, as I found out when I put in the dish soap. The pumps were cavitating like mad and hardly moving anything, but it just kept on truckin' like nothing was amiss

Technology Connections

I'm constantly having the manual pre-wash versus not debate with my family. I'm the only one in the "let the machine do what it's designed to do" camp. they constantly tell me I'm wrong, and that they frequently have to put some things through a second wash. however, I'm the only one that seems to have any real experience with loading a dishwasher. As it turns out, if you insist on cramming it to the very brim with dishes, and using every modicum of space to pile more dishes and utensils on, it's probably not going to clean that efficiently. it's a shocker to most people I know, but if you take 90 seconds to skim the manual that came with your dishwasher, you'll find a suggested fill order and layout section that makes it very clear what each section of the dishwasher is optimized to hold, and thus guarantees the best cleaning results in.

NotMyRealName

My LG doesn’t have a pre-wash compartment either. 🧐

You definitely had my scared I was using my dishwasher wrong with packs... but I’ve been on team “two packs” since I been using them for exactly this reason - I just dump one into the tub at the start, and one in the dispenser

Wait I thought all those colourful things in the pods were treats for the elves that live inside of my dishwasher and do a good job of cleaning the dishes. If I go back to using the loose powder should I leave some money in there to tip them instead?

Brian Condron

I love the little catch in you voice at 17:38, excellent!

Fred Leckie

I have the exact same dishwasher in my apartment and can confirm that sometimes it just craps out in the middle of a cycle and the lights get all flashy.

None of my European dishwashers have had a prewash cup in the past 20 years. But I do remember noticing them when I lived in the USA.

I can put some of that up, sure! Maybe publicly on Connextras. It was interesting how quickly the suds caused the pump to cavitate (and, full disclosure, the leak was worst when I was cleaning it out. I actually was bummed at how little it leaked on camera, but it got *real bad* once I started the effort to de-suds it)

Technology Connections

I want to see more of the cycle you did with hand-washing detergent.

William Gray

Admittedly I didn't think about this specific thing, but I did say I appreciate the accessibility of packs! Though, I would argue, that bottles of gel probably take care of this concern well enough (though perhaps not for extremely sensitive individuals).

Technology Connections

I'll admit, despite there clearly being a spot for pre-wash detergent, I never once actually even recognized that I should have been using it. I also just bought the pods because I thought I was getting a good deal at Costco (which, I still was), but didn't really consider the problems they had with microplastics. So yeah, you've basically convinced me to stop using pods and switch over to cheaper and less problematic powder, and to use the pre-wash detergent as well :D Thanks, Alec!

Ian Spence

I would try using pre-wash detergent and running the tap until it's hot before you hack your dishwasher. The dishwasher featured here never had a problem washing whatever I threw into it, and it only used 4.2 gallons per wash. Well, it never had a problem until it started going loopy, that is...

Technology Connections

See? SEE? It's a thing! Give it a try and see how it goes

Technology Connections

I switched to gel mainly because of a similar issue. I had a dishwasher where if you put dinner plates in front of the detergent dispenser, they keep it from opening more than about an inch. That led to the powder turning into a giant clump which got stuck, but gel would ooze out and be fine. Luckily it seems the sliding door design has become standard

Technology Connections

"Why Detergent Packs' Performance is Wishy-Washy" might be a punny one.

Steets

Somehow we saw better results with this dishwasher *after* switching to the pods (compared even to two detergent cycle). I've never understood but maybe this gives me the pressure to try the classic way again.

illves

How do I hack my dishwasher? I live in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Our water source is Lake Michigan. Our wastewater is returned to Lake Michigan after being cleaned. Thus it makes no difference how much water my dishwasher uses. The government has mandated low water usage for dishwashers because many areas have water shortages. Where I live, it makes no difference how much water runs through my dishwasher. I want a dishwasher that works properly, not one hindered by government interference. Someone needs to make a dishwasher that can be reprogrammed for areas that are not in the middle of the desert sucking all the water out of a limited river.

Love the Zephram Cochran joke! :) @XPEric, I sometimes use two of the "Finish" tabs from Costco too (one in prewash, one in main). My partner's cuisine is usually very oil-heavy. Now going to pick up some "loose" powder or gel at Trader Joe's to see about using that for the prewash. @TechnologyConnections - This helped me see why my partner's quiet, modern dishwasher washes for *so* long. My apartment's circa 2000 dishwasher probably uses a lot more water, but with all mechanical components is usually done a lot sooner.

Benjamin Rippel

Here's your title: This one easy trick TURBOCHARGES your dishwasher!

Warren Garabrandt

FWIW many people are allergic or sensitive to detergent, so the water-soluble packs are a godsent.

Thomas Fuchs

I've been fighting with my dishwasher since I moved in over getting things properly clean, I've always used packs and never thought of a pre-wash slot. The dishwasher I have doesn't have one specifically marked that, but there is an open cup to be used for "pot cleaning and normal cycles only". As I only have the packs right now I'm running a cycle with two, one in the open cup and one in the closed, to see if it makes the difference I've been looking for.

Wow. I'd never heard of detergent packs until your video. My lovely partner displaying the jug of Cascade gel from CostCo on the the stairs behind me, however, verifies that your contention of packs taking over is actually true! Who knew? I learned something from YouTube! Our problem is that the idio, er, fine industrial engineers, yeah we'll go with that, who designed our 10 year old washer placed the swinging door in a spot where the lower basket keeps it from opening more than 10 degrees rather then the designed 180 degrees. This means the water jets don't scoop out the gel. So we leave the door open, put the prewash amount of detergent in, set our microwave kitchen timer for 15 minutes and then add the wash amount when we hear the drain end. Sigh.

Mike Bird

I did pause the video and checked my dishwasher for the first cycle compartment ;-) I will test putting some detergent in that and continue to use detergent packs ("tabs" in Germany) for the main wash.

Carsten Lechte

I have a cheap landlord-special dishwasher and the detergent compartment leaks just enough to often get powder gooped up during the pre-wash and then it won't reliably open all the way during the main wash, leaving a partly-dissolved glob of detergent in the compartment. The pods stay together well enough to avoid this. But, you know, that's a specific issue...

Michaela Pereckas

Excited for yet another video that changes my buying habits.

Sean Levorse

*Nervously looks at the Costco-sized box of dishwasher detergent packs under the sink before clicking on the video*

XPEric