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kdrobertson
kdrobertson

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A Post About Problems

I had some long, depressing post about the downtrend I've been facing, but figure it can be summarized without so much detail.

The simple version is that I made a Patreon post after Spellblade 5 about my worries that the fundamental shift in the harem genre would result in an algorithmic shift that would cause my books to sell much worse. That's eventuated, despite the tantrum a bunch of people and authors threw after that post got leaked.

In short, I have a few choices.

I can keep doing what I want, in a genre that is increasingly becoming swarmed with book spam by more ghostwriters than ever (and, imo, a deluge of AI written garbage within a year). It's possible the fall in sales might stop at some point, but it's also possible Amazon will just stop recommending the books entirely at a certain point. Right now, individual sequels do well but Amazon won't recommend any of my other books. The risk here is that the drops keep worsening. I'm not as big in the genre as some think, despite being recommended a lot by people (a fact that often annoys certain authors who outsell me). I don't think this is viable, simply because of how hostile the genre is toward quality.

Another alternative would be to shorten my books and release more often. My past strategy relied heavily on Amazon recommending my past books with new releases. If that's not happening, I can't really afford long gaps between releases. Neural Wraith 2 fell off hard after less than 2 months, and Neural Wraith 3 is fading even faster. I'm back at pre-Demon's Throne 2 levels, to be clear. This would mean reducing the length of Spellblade and Demon's Throne books to be around Neural Wraith and just releasing more of them.

Writing outside harem is, I think, non-negotiable at this point. It's pretty clear that I've peaked in the genre. I get recommended a lot by people, but most of the Amazon audience won't read my books. That's not even getting into my general frustration with the genre as a whole and the fact I think it's really unhealthy due to being so overly commercial. So I'll work on a non-harem series over the next few months. Dunno if it'll be attached to this pen name, given the issues with either approach (existing pen name might poison the well in some genres and cross-pollinate too much with harem; new pen name might struggle or be sabotaged while fresh). This probably wouldn't launch until 2024 even if I start it now.

I could also try writing a new harem series that has more overlap with my existing series to kickstart the algo. I don't really want to launch a fourth series when I can't keep up with my existing three and may ditch Emperor. Launching something new in the genre does feel like the definition of insanity, too, as Neural Wraith started surprisingly well and has fallen off super hard. The people who read it, love it, but Amazon won't recommend it because the genre is nothing but slice of life fantasy. There's no audience, just as I feared would happened months ago.

Whatever the case, I'll need to do something. If I don't plan even after seeing the iceberg coming, I'd be an idiot. Especially in a genre that's only going to get worse, given how accepted the excuse of "it makes more money" has become. There are a lot of things I care about when writing, and if I have to choose between including a good story and the harem elements, I'd prefer to keep writing good stories. Litrpg and progfantasy are significantly healthier than harem at the moment, and I'd say there's an obvious reason for that.

I'll still finish my existing series and work on Spellblade over the next few months. I'm just wrapping up the post-release commentary and some of the cryptic comments I've made earlier this year. This also isn't a call to action. The Amazon algorithm is reacting to fundamental shifts in the genre and audience. Hence why I need to either alter my approach or leave the genre if I want to keep writing the sort of stuff I like. Something like Neural Wraith might only succeed in harem, but it's also really clear that it still doesn't belong if Amazon won't recommend the rest of the series when a new release comes out.

The only other post I expect to make about this might be regarding Emperor. At this point, I think it's unlikely I'll resume it. If I start on a new series (despite being on break) I might post about it.

Otherwise, I think I need to vanish for a while. I'm frustrated. In large part because I probably should have immediately acted on this after Spellblade 5.

Comments

As noted above, I'm currently writing Cradle, which is excellent in most respects except for the relationships. It is almost like the author is ashamed of it, despite there being excellent female side characters that like the MC a whole lot (and I do mean a whole lot) and that the MC is supposed to be in a relationship with one of them (even though as of book 10 out of an eventual 12 they have only kissed once). As noted above, the character-building would have been improved, in my opinion, with polyamorous relationships, but then the progression fantasy community would have largely rejected it no matter how good it was even if it were fade to black. Frustrating.

Gadfium

Worth bearing in mind that with the big changes in AI, AI-generated fiction is not the only likely impact. The recommendation systems themselves are built on the same technology, and there may be significant shifts in how they behave.

AndrewM

I don't think I'm big enough to get anything out of making a store. My issue right now is that Amazon is curtailing my reach, and that I don't have enough of an existing audience to just do what I want without running into financial problems within a year. Going independent means I'll lose even more reach. The more sustainable solution feels like branching out into new genres, and making some adjustments to how I publish to see if that helps at all.

K.D. Robertson

The pen name decision is a difficult one, so I appreciate the detailed comment on it. You basically raised the big issues with using my current name. The first is that it will turn off new readers (and also cause certain authors to actively ban my series from being mentioned). The second is that Amazon will recommend it harem readers, who may not be interested, when I want a different genre to read it and that might be worse than starting entirely fresh. As for letting people know about a new pen name, I don't think I'll go full scorched earth. There are risks. Hondo's worries about review bombing are entirely genuine. At the same time, I feel that launching a new pen name, then notifying people through somewhere like Patreon (or, possibly, posting chapters here, then releasing, but that's riskier) has a better chance of kickstarting the new pen name without poisoning the name with harem (as Amazon is less likely to recommend the book to harem readers automatically).

K.D. Robertson

If I work on a progfantasy/litrpg series, I may or may not post it to Royal Road. I don't mind serial fiction, but it's been a while since I wrote anything like it and the response can get to me (especially as RR has a notoriously toxic community). Not posting to RR would be a huge risk, but I might be happier taking it.

K.D. Robertson

Haremlit used to have a lot of fade-to-black stuff, but only popular authors from ages ago can get away with that. Explicit content is the norm. I got some gentle pushback for the low level of sex in Neural Wraith. Removing the actual sex scenes doesn't help outside the genre, though. The actual polyamorous relationship gets lots of pushback, particularly because progression fantasy is going somewhat mainstream. Series like Cradle (1m+ copies) and Dungeon Crawler Carl (500k+copies) sell massive numbers.

K.D. Robertson

Litrpg is slowly gaining a few books with actual romance. It had a real "eww, girls have cooties" problem around the same time the anti-harem stuff got pushed hard but it's not as bad now. Pretty much all the biggest books are completely aromantic, but you can often get recommendations for books that actually have a romance (even if it might be clumsy). Lesbian/wlw romances tend to be more accepted for... reasons I won't go into. Romance for Men isn't for me, mostly because I'm increasingly moving toward worldbuilding and plot, rather than romance. I like the harem aspect as a way to further the character arcs and relationships, rather than doing pure romance. Also, I do worry that the alignment with harem will seriously hurt it.

K.D. Robertson

Niche genres mostly succeed in selfpub because they can build a core identity, which Amazon can use to recommend similar books. This is why Neural Wraith probably would have died outside harem, because cyberpunk has no modern identity (in fact, the people who pretend they like cyberpunk as a genre of fiction mostly spend a lot of time rejecting anything new in it) and modern mystery/detective novels are very tropey. Spellblade, conversely, would definitely have been a great choice as a progfantasy novel. Although it gets recommended a lot in harem corners, it sells far less than simpler stuff (the audio is a great example of this), whereas it probably would have found great traction elsewhere (and can't, because it is highly sexualized and has tons of harem). There is no guarantee of success when moving genres, though. Especially as I hate the marketing/social aspect and it's far more competitive now.

K.D. Robertson

Haremlit with no explicit content is simply referred as fade-to-black (ftb).

Mation Amalga

Summers End was very good!

Alex Lindsay

Just curious, is it still haremif it has no NSFW sections? At what point does it become simply mature writing? This goes along with my opinion of the debasing of the quality of harem into juvenile NSFW without strong stories?

Alex Lindsay

This is probably a step I'll take in the short-term, as I think it might be one of the only viable ways to stay afloat in harem given its problems.

K.D. Robertson

I am unfortunately pretty bad at taking a break after releases, especially with two shockers one after the other with the NW2 audiobook and NW3. I'll try, though.

K.D. Robertson

The well has been poisoned so thoroughly I don't see it improving. There's been no turnaround in the past year, and the warning signs I saw only cemented themselves. I'll take a few measures and see if they work, but I expect the genre to be a write-off unless you're genuinely massive or write for the new audience that's been attracted.

K.D. Robertson

I don't see myself moving romance. My passion is more for worldbuilding and story elements, and I haven't read new stuff in romance for years. I'd probably make a dedicated shift to progression fantasy with a new series. It's too early to say if I'll leave harem entirely, but I won't work on anything new in it until both Spellblade and Demon are done, and I'll need to adjust a few things.

K.D. Robertson

Would moving into the romance genre something that would interest you? I don’t know the situation with more singular relationship stories but is it something that’s interest you? Also, does that mean you’ll make a big decision once your 3 series (Neural Wrath, Spellblade, Demons Throne) reach their conclusion? I agree with a lot of people have said above me, so no need for me to repeat things that have been said, just curious about what your thoughts are at the moment.

GooseQuack

I agree that Wraith 3 was great.

Alex Lindsay

Joined after completing Neural Wraith 1. So far, it is a fantastic book and I will continue reading your books. I've now noticed a trend of authors not being recommended and promoted by Amazon and it is quite frustrating that they throw real writers under the bus to promote Generative Pretrained Transformer garbage. Not to sway too far, but there is an inherit issue with expectation that comes from a name, so I think it may be best to try branching out under a separate pen name to pursue the LitRPG and Progfantasy genres. Making your own store isn't a bad idea either even though I pitch it whenever your success ends up relying on another system that may suddenly reject you. Whatever you decide, I'll follow. Edit: On the note of harem stories, I like harem, but it is very tiresome in its current format. The main issue is that it usually causes character development to fall to the wayside or it takes valuable time away from the main story. I've considered the slow burn harem to be far superior as the current meta of dumping a plethora of girls in the MC's lap leads to shallow characters and unbalanced stories. Slowing that element down prevents the book from being overloaded with trying to track all of the new girls, their involvement, and the relationships they have with the main character. It fixes the problems I have with modern harem series. Just a thought.

Logan

I'd be fine with shorter spellblade if I knew more were coming and why not work on a 3rd if you feel like? I'm more then fine with your disisions. Wraith 3 was awsome BTW. Can't wait for new chapters. Have you thought about starting a 3rd on royal road? See if it gains traction?

Cody Luco

I can understand your frustration. I stumbled upon this genre because of Fostering Faust by William D Arand. Through the recommendations at end of his books I found several authors that wrote excellent thoughtful books. Lately, so many of the books in the genre are shallow and juvenile. I am mostly disappointed. It seems that most new books are more porn for teen boys that anything I would like. While I appreciate the length of your books, they are certainly longer than many in Amazon kindle. I personally would understand if you needed to release shorter books more frequently. I would also enjoy getting books more frequently. If you needed to do all fade to black or non harem I think your stories can stand up on their own. Not sure what the best approach is but your stories deserve to be told, the harem is the least important part in your stories to me.

Alex Lindsay

I also like your writing because of its heavy focus on relationships and does not go overboard on NSFW. If you have to move away from harem, thinking about two of my other favorite (now former) harem authors, I hope you take more of the approach Cebelius took than Hondo Jinx. Cebelius moved, without huge fanfare, to single-partner relationship books (though with monster girls), and I think it has worked out well for him. He has recently posted that he has a previously-written harem work that he's thinking of releasing, though not -- at least initially -- on Amazon. I think he just doesn't trust the algorithm to do it any justice there, so for now is talking about full self-publishing it in the way MSE does these days, and then maybe later if it does well putting it up on Amazon. Hondo Jinx just did a full cold-turkey quit of the genre and is now, I hear, writing in some other genre under a new pen name. He refuses to let anyone know what it is, however, as he thinks that if he does it will lead to a host of toxic types flooding his work with review bombs, potentially destroying that new pen name. Writing non-genre books under the same pen name, however, can also have its issues, as John Van Stry found out with his mainstream -- and really excellent! -- hard SF book, Summer's End. Despite all his existing genre fans saying they would buy it, not enough initially did. Plus, finding new readers outside of your existing genre-base can almost be like starting over and Amazon only seems to make that harder. But I think over time Summer's End sales have done better (at least better enough for him to commit to a sequel) as more traditional SF readers found it and weren't put-off by his backstock. And it has now even been nominated for one of SF's big awards, the Prometheus Award (for libertarian-themed SF). Sorry for the bit of ramble, but best luck to you however you decide to go forward, and if you let us know what your new pen name is (if you go that route), I'll be glad to check out your new stuff. I like good harem, but I also read pretty widely in SF, traditional fantasy, and LitRPG. For example, I'm in the middle of reading Will Wright's cultivation sort-of-LitRPG Cradle series, which I like a lot. It is structured in a way that it could easily have been written as a harem novel, which would have in fact deepened the relationship aspect of the series and would have, in my view, made it even better even as a fade-to-black work.

Gadfium

You write it, I will read it..❤️

Oscar Leon Robbins

One thing to consider is that you could write harem without calling it harem. Wheel of Time is well known globally but has harem elements. From what I've read of your stories you do have the technical skill to write such a fashion. I will also echo what others have said in that I read your stories because the relationships and characters are deep and not because it is harem. I believe this information can be used to do as I first described.

Crit Happens

I can say that at this point Haremlit per se isn't something I need to read, what mostly drew me to the genre was a heavier focus on relationships between the MC and his lovers. Which I think is the reason I didn't really try LitRPG yet, because I have no grasp on how romance and relationships work there. That said there is for example Cebelius who wrote his Monster Girl romance series, that kinda felt like his haremlit series, but was mainly a romance between two people. I think it is also his most popular series. So there is now also the genre "Romance for Men". Not sure if that branched of Haremlit or if it is just alined with it.

GhostPhil

Yeah same. It is really frustrating. There are a few newer authors that I tried and that released some good stories or at least a nice progression in the harem romance. But now we also get tons of books with AI generated covers that look all kinda the same. It's really frustrating.

GhostPhil

I don't care about /harem genre/ as such. Neural Wraith would probably have been better as a non-harem series. Heretic Spellblade might have been too, for that matter. I'm not sure what the history is that made it a marketing winner for a few years - probably just a quirk of Amazon that is now over-exploited. The point is that if that window is closing (and I'll take your word for it) then the question is much more _how to reach a market differently_, rather than what to write. Is there some different market where good writing and small core of loyal fans can get you into a good position? Your writing is good enough to compete in any other market, if you can get in (good enough writing is never a guarantee of that).

AndrewM

Personally i think your books are vastly better than most in the genre. A lot of them i stopped reading or gave up on because they came across shallow It might be a case where you might have to branch off into another pen name. One now directly associated with the current genre or community. Because one of the main reasons i like your books is because the stories are so much better and more detailed. I like that they are less NSFW and that the relationship side of it is less if a focus If you branched out of the harem genre and toned down the 'sexiness' more, i think you'd do well. Could even recommend you to other fantasy reading people i know. As of now they wouldn't even look at anything linked in the current space

Shahed

The last couple years seems like its shifted quite noticeably to quantity over quality works and a lot of the diversity in the genre has slowed down or moved away. I've stopped reading most of the genre purely because its just the same thing now and the quality is so low

Jayy Wes

Whatever your future works are I'm still excited to read the stories and worlds you build.

Jayy Wes

If you have to write shorter books so that you can earn more money and stay in the genre then go for it. Also let us know if you you make a non harem book, people here im sure will still read it. Whatever helps to keep you writing

Mustafa Ali

100% agree would be down to help with a fundraiser

Mustafa Ali

I'm seeing the quality drop off as well and some of my favorite authors keep leaving. While the mediocre ones remain. I've started and stopped 3 books this week. Two of them were from previously good authors their 3rd part of a series that was just boring and a new series collaborated with a popular but exceedingly mediocre author that was just drivel. It's intensely frustrating as a reader, I can only imagine how it is for an author. Doesn't help with how fragile and entitled some of the communities around the genre are. Haremfantasy on reddit damn near makes me sprain myself with the number of eye eyerolls it produces. If you choose to submit under another name please let us know. I'd read your stories in whatever genre. I truly believe that you have mainstream chops, though I'm largely ignorant of the mechanics behind the scenes. Though you help shed light on it with these posts.

Matt Miller

You're one of the few Harem authors I still read. You and Bruce Sentar are more or less carrying the dignity of this genre. If worst comes to worst, I hope you'll do what Michael Scott Earle did and do fundraisers to pay for the next book or something, to at least finish your current series. That's if you decide to leave the Harem genre instead of just branching out. The genre's been hurting since Logan Jacobs and Eric Vall showed up, and this new slew of authors like them has hurt good writers like you.

Logan Carl

I'm not leaving just yet, fyi.

K.D. Robertson

I think you're right that the genre has peaked. Authors that put in a lot of thought into their stories are falling off, and books that seem like they took 3 weeks to write are flooding genre. Don't know what the right answer is, if there even is one. But, you said you were going to take a break, SO TAKE A BREAK! XD Stay away from reddit and the algorithms for a moment and try something new, reset your brain then re-prioritize.

Mation Amalga

I'm pretty disappointed to hear this, you've been one of my favorite harem authors so I'll be sad to see you no longer write that content anymore, but I can understand why if it's no longer financially viable for you to continue anymore. I hope you'll at least let us know what your new pen-name will be for those of us who would like to continue to read your new work as well. Personally I avoid reading obvious ghost farms, such as Dante King, as much as I can, but there's been so many new authors lately it's hard to tell which ones are real and which ones are just a new pen-name by the same old ghost farms.

hawkshe .

In general, I think any inclusion or association with harem hurts larger exposure. Space Battles is fairly puritanical, given it's attitude toward adult content is the reason forum questing spread elsewhere (and I think QQ sprung up from SV for similar reasons but we're getting into ancient history here). I'm only talked about on QQ due to my questing background, as otherwise I'm nowhere near big enough.

K.D. Robertson

I have mixed feelings about this at one point I want to read your works in harem genre but given the current situation in the genre I saw that it is unlikely with authors like Hondo jinx, Mike truk etc who write good books quiting the genre due to not making enough and the same happening to ur works in this oversaturated genre. Anyway I would be exited for your non harem works

Navdeep Sugandhi

You have a better handle on this with me, but most the online spaces I lurk in don't seem to know about you. I haven't seen anything in spacebattles or sufficientvelocity. Only on QQ, reddit, and some old IRC threads do I see you talked about. Given the less NSFW nature of your work I think a few preview chapters could help? Or maybe I'm just ignorant of the complexities.

John Smith

It's sort of depressing how much I agree with you. I have been reading harem books since 2019 and it feels like the the genre has already come to its peak and can only decline from here. I only use Reddit so I don't know if I see the totality of fan sentiment in the genre, but from what I can see it's not a great outlook. The audience is simultaneously growing bored with the same garbage but paradoxically unwilling to try anything new. The fact that anyone who has been around the genre for even a little while still buys books from the ghost farms kind of boggles the mind. It seems like a frustratingly large portion of the audience is incapable of parsing anything but the basest of pandering. I know I have said this before but you are probably one of only 2-3 authors in the genre who I am interested in their skills as a writer enough to want to keep reading even if they end up having to step away. I hope you see a turn around in the sales soon, but I'm along for the ride as long as you want to keep writing.

Eric Arthur Blair

Bummed to hear you have been struggling. Have a good break and I hope you find something that you can enjoy.

Clinton wertzbaugher


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