First Opium War - Lies - Extra History
Added 2016-07-23 04:32:03 +0000 UTCJames looks back over the First Opium War (and Federico da Montefeltro) and tells more stories that didn't make it into the episodes!
Comments
I'm not James, can't comment on his thought process! I would imagine that you're right that the scale on which government operates today is so much larger that a direct comparison isn't historically viable... but as an example to get people to try and wrap their head around just how important tea was to the economy at this age, I think it does its job! -Soraya
Extra History
2016-07-30 07:16:10 +0000 UTCSo this is just my opinion, and I'm not nearly as well-read on this matter as James or even Christina (who's been leaving a lot of helpful comments about). But for me: Possibly if the starting conditions were different. If, for example, they did that modernization of the army that one of the commanders wanted. They'd have probably had to focus heavily on their navy and their coastal fortifications. Then I think they may have been able to hold the British off, since overseas wars of that nature are really, really expensive and difficult to wage and China, as you rightly point out, had a lot of resources and no shortage of military know-how. But all of that rests on the hypothetical that they could bring all those military resources up to par fast enough AND that the British would be content to sit back and let them do that, both of which are pretty big hypotheticals. With resources as they actually were at the start of war, no, I don't really think China had a chance, because the British naval strength (especially with that ironclad that could operate in shallow waters) was just overwhelming in a conflict that mainly centered around control of ports. -Soraya
Extra History
2016-07-30 07:08:13 +0000 UTCGlad you enjoyed it! Federico is already a favorite on our team. I just saw Carrie (who couldn't remember his real name) refer to him by making a swiping gesture over her nose, and the whole team was like "Ahhh, yes!"
Extra History
2016-07-30 06:55:46 +0000 UTCI LOVE the Temeraire novels! League of Dragons (the final book) is next on my reading list, right after I finish "Children of the Earth and Sky" by Guy Gavriel Kay. Anyway, we can occasionally do additional reading recs, when I can successfully track down James! He recommends the following: "The Opium Wars: The Addiction of One Empire and the Corruption of Another. It's not perfect, but it' a lot more modern and readable than what I had to dig through. Maybe Canton and the Bogue : the narrative of an eventful six months in China if you want more about the very first contact (or there's a whole bunch of books about the East India Company if you are looking for something that covers the period between first contact and The Opium Wars)."
Extra History
2016-07-30 06:54:57 +0000 UTCI love the lies videos (and the extra history channel), they're a great idea that I've not seen elsewhere. I wonder if comparing 10% of all revenue from tea at the time to a 10% of all revenue from a modern state with income taxes (non-existent at the time to my knowledge) was a fair comparison though. Adding also that education, health care and social securities were not the huge expenses that they are now and it seems to me that 10% of a smaller scale government is not the same as 10% of a modern "social state" and is somewhat like comparing apples to oranges (with 10% staying a big portion of revenues). Thanks.
Andre Laferriere
2016-07-25 15:10:03 +0000 UTCI found this series to be very interesting, especially since I know very little about the opium war. A question I did mean to ask but didn't get around to, while I understand this is diving into speculation but from what you found while researching the topic, do you think China had a chance of winning the first opium war? As much as British Empire was treated like this unstoppable force, the reality was quite different and China was no a push over.
Mr Makulu
2016-07-24 11:07:01 +0000 UTCThat was an awesome series. I LOVED the part about Federico and the start of the renaissance. Keep up the awesome work guys! :)
Hannah the Seal
2016-07-24 02:00:09 +0000 UTCGlad you enjoyed it!
Extra History
2016-07-23 23:21:07 +0000 UTCI know EH doesn't normally do additional reading recs, but I'm trying to pick up some basic grounding on English and Chinese relations during the early 1800's as background from some essays about Naomi Novik's "Temeraire" novels and I really just can't seem to find my footing anywhere.
De
2016-07-23 22:51:53 +0000 UTCI love the lies thanks for the shout out in lies and you got my name right a frist.
schuyler
2016-07-23 20:46:06 +0000 UTCYay for people remembering and admiring his achievements in Urbino!
Extra History
2016-07-23 19:55:18 +0000 UTCI think it's plausible, although apparently the problem is that there are so MANY theories that it's hard to trace any one of them as an accurate origin story.
Extra History
2016-07-23 19:52:54 +0000 UTCOrder of the Bath! It's still around, too.
Extra History
2016-07-23 19:50:47 +0000 UTCI was trying to remember where I'd heard of Federico da Montefeltro before until I was rewatching the old James Burke Day the Universe Changed ep about how rediscovering optics led to changes in art, architecture, and city planning with Urbino being a great example of all the ideas coming together. I hadn't heard Frederico's story before your Urbino video though, so I'm happy to see how he got to the forefront of Renaissance innovation.
Jessica Cheeri
2016-07-23 17:27:35 +0000 UTCJohn (or Jon) may be a corruption of Hon. The Honorable East Indies Company was sometimes abbreviated as Hon. EIC. Thus, John Company. British sailors were notorious for corrupting names; especially foreign names. For example, HMS Bellerophon was commonly referred to as Billy Ruffian.
barefoot James
2016-07-23 13:15:49 +0000 UTCIs Walpole's order called the Order of the Bath or Baf? Now I'm curious on how many connections that political favors system has.
Parker
2016-07-23 12:54:27 +0000 UTCAlways glad to see more kitty grins!
Extra History
2016-07-23 12:46:54 +0000 UTCInterestingly enough, even though James has mentioned the votes on Lies before, I usually see the biggest surge of new patrons right at the beginning of a new series. Which is great, but I'm always like... folks, you just missed the last vote! There won't be another one for seven weeks! Hopefully we keep them entertained enough that they're happy even if they have to wait a while. :)
Extra History
2016-07-23 12:46:18 +0000 UTCBe interesting to see if that explanation of how topics are suggested results in a surge of patrons.
Nessf
2016-07-23 06:45:27 +0000 UTCThanks much for a great series! Looking forward to the next one. *Kitty Grin*
Kathyrne
2016-07-23 05:14:15 +0000 UTC
