Attack on Titan 4x14 Reaction Extended (YT link below)

Something I think doesn’t get talked about enough here is Flochs radicalization. If you think about what he went through in season 3, it actually makes a lot of sense. After the charge against Zeke, literally every single person in his squad was killed except for him. If that’s not enough to convince you that it’s kill or be killed, then nothing is. From Flochs point of view, either they take revenge and eradicate the enemy or get eradicated themselves, binary as a view it is to have. But for Floch it makes sense, because what else is he supposed to think? I’m sure part of his motivation for radicalizing is wanting the power not just to make change, but to have the power to never be in that kind of position ever again where he is helpless to do anything but die. Another part of his radicalization is his rallying behind Eren. When he comes to Levi hoping to save Erwin, he rationalizes that the only reason he must’ve been left alive while everyone else died was so he could revive Erwin and keep the “demon” the scouts needed alive. Otherwise, he has no way to rationalize or explain why all his comrades died except him, and to say that there was no reason, that it was just random chance, is enough to drive someone insane with survivors guilt. Then, when that idea gets rejected, and Erwin isn’t the one who gets revived, Floch makes it his mission to recreate the “devil” he saw in Erwin that could make tough choices, and that manifests in Eren as the next likely candidate. Floch has radicalized behind Eren because he believes Eren can fill Erwins shoes, and do what it takes to achieve victory. When his only explanation for living is ripped from under him, he doubles down on the idea that the only way to beat cruelty like a Marley’s is to sponsor someone who can be just as cruel. Because to Floch, Erwin was no hero. He was the reason all his comrades were sent to die, and he wanted him to be revived to bear that burden and suffer some more. Flochs radicalization is him clinging to any kind of power that will make him never occupy that vulnerable, weak space of a terrified recruit ever again, and also a reaction towards the “cruelty” he saw in Erwin, which in Flochs inexperience, is the only way he can see to win.

Jordan Runner

the takeover honestly feels like i just watched the nazis rize to power

That's excellent Wait this winter or next winter? I've heard both

Alex G

I've heard great things about Re:Zero! Still haven't totally decided about the next show though I have some choices. I will decide probably wednesday

Alex G

lol oh no did I get fooled again by epic music? It's a real weakness It's disturbing for me all around especially with all the Sasageyos flying about

Alex G

Wow, I never noticed that!

a. tree

I know he thinks he's doing the right thing, and I can appreciate his confidence and determination while still thinking he's a piece of shit

Xylen

Shame the US invasion didn't help.

Yusuf

Well, with the Warhammer, attack and founding titans he might stand a pretty good chance to be honest The biggest obstacle would be the colossal explosion, but the rest I imagine he could handle using the Warhammer's abilities.

Nick

Eren may act big but he essentially held everyone hostage. He wouldn't stand a chance if Armin Transformed.

ArmdVctr

I can see why people hate floch, but I personally really like Floch, in season 3 he was a scared new scout recruit but in season 4 it feels like he’s not as scared anymore, and his determination is off the charts (for those who read the manga)

Jabez Katsak

Actually adding onto this a bit further, Zeke has shown this mindset in the past. While he was killing the scouts during Erwin's charge, he was actively considering them as mere things getting in his way. He took satisfaction in shredding them to bits with rocks. I don't think that was a coping mechanism I just think it's who he is. They're expendable, might as well not be overly gloomy about it. To me he seemed genuinely annoyed that they were insistent on interfering despite the odds, as if he would rather they just lay down and die. I don't hate Zeke by any means and I think he's a really well written character but he is definitely a dick lol

Nick

Alright, finally watched this today. Your feelings on Zeke are similar to mine, at least at this point in the story. Zeke and Eren, despite having somewhat similar tactics, strike very different chords with me. Eren wants to save Eldians in the end, but he is sacrificing himself and others for what he thinks is the best end result. Zeke is doing something similar, but where I feel they differ is that Zeke shows little remorse as Levi pointed out. He might care about Eldia, but he didn't care about the scouts he obliterated with boulders since they were expendable. Going back to the discussion of Eren putting on a front or wearing a mask, I think this is an example of that. Eren is very hard to read this season, so it's hard to tell if he is actually mortified by his own actions. But I would wager he feels more about it than Zeke by a mile That's not me supporting Eren, but I do think there's a difference between the two of their mindsets. Eren is not emotionless, neither is Zeke but I believe the way in which they're directing their emotions is VERY different. Zeke is almost trying to be charismatic and light hearted about the whole thing, whereas Eren is constantly stone faced. Edit: For example, Eren isn't going to kill Levi's comrades and say things like "What happened to your friends? Did you kill them? Oh, those poor things..." whereas Zeke will do that unapologetically as we saw in this episode. I've seen some people argue that Zeke is putting up a front so he doesn't have to deal with the moral implications of his actions but I disagree, I think it's part of his character. That's a fundamental difference between him and Eren.

Nick

Let's see if you change your mind about Zeke.

Aray YIKAMACI

#TeamEren

Nick Heiney

The YouTube link is private

Aray YIKAMACI

The next show he's going to choose himself, I think he's still debating over what show to pick Then after MHA is done or the next show is done it'll be poll again

Nick

Yeah and their bond was highlighted more in a short OVA if I recall correctly too

Nick

Yeah Eren's actions here always felt out of character but I'm pretty sure that's the point. We know Eren wouldn't beat the shit out of Armin and be this harsh to Mikasa unless he felt he absolutely had to for whatever horrifying reason. Despite 4 years passing, we know he still spent time with them in that period. It wasn't 4 years of 0 contact.

Nick

I have a feeling it won't change his opinion much... place your bets everyone!

Kotryna

One note on Levi / Zeke fight : In this episode we see Levi being quite selfish and deciding to kill (using one Yeagirists to eat Zeke) Zeke "regardless of what higher up say". This is very selfish because not only he is disobeying military's order and making his own decision but also his decision can be very fatal toward very existence of Eldians when the whole world is about to attack and kill them all. Regardless of what is the right way to defend and ensure existence of eldian people, killing Zeke who holds special power of royal blood and beast can be crucial to very existence of countless people in Paradise without consultation with higher ups and others. In this regards, Zeke is somewhat in the position of self defense, because he did give time to the Paradise militaries and waited them over a month for them to make a decision when the whole world could attack at any moment and Zeke only Escaped/turned against Levi only when Levi selfishly made a decision to kill him on his own without militaries approval and any alternative plan to defend Paradise against the one Zeke proposed. So In a way, Levi is also partially responsible for the death of his comrades in this episode in my opinion because his decision led to this situation (unless Zeke had plan to do that anyway even if they allowed him to meet with Eren or if they didn't had plan to kill them). While its disgusting and absolutely wrong for Zeke to use "wine trick", but as it was used at last moment for self defense considering he is someone who only had one year left, know how powerful other countries are against Paradise, knows world politics, militaries better than anyone else in the island and risked his remaining life, comrades and grandparents for the intent of "saving eldians" to live in a country where he might be killed at any moment( though it did turn out only to be killed by insubordinate Levi who didn't have better alternative plan, power and knowledge ) his wine plan is somewhat like a last measure safety net for his plan and his own life to "save eldians". That being said, I do not agree with Zeke's plan but at the same time I don't have any other alternatives to "defend eldians" or alternative action in that situation to counter the Levi inconsiderate decision to kill him which can be devastating for the very existence of Eldians .

Matsumoto Erkin

Btw. Do we have a plan for the next show after this? Another poll? I'd love to see a Code Geass (mostly blind) rewatch! Tons of stuff to talk about there as well! Quite some morally... "interesting" situations

DennisAnimeFan

Interesting detail in this episode is how Eren actually had to lie to the Yaegerists about his meeting with Armin and Mikasa. When the Yaegerists entered he was like "So yeah, as I said, we can avoid all this if you told me where Zeke is". However, his talk with Mikasa/Armin was never actually about that. I think the only logical conclusion is that Eren has to pretend towards the Yaegerists and their actual goals don't align.

DennisAnimeFan

you know part 2 is coming this winter right ?

Kahv

Shadis actually saved the cadets who refused to join Floch.

ArmdVctr

Do we know if you will be reacting to a new show once you finish up this season of Attack on Titan? would very much love to see you watch Re:Zero, tons of room for thoughtful moral talk there imo

CastSenpai

i also think a lot of the freedom commentary is pretty much bullshit especially the armin stuff because the exact same arguments can just be flipped on eren. he’s always been knuckleheaded but from what we saw of eren in marley i don’t think he’s delusional to this extent (or at least i hope not). unless of course it’s him trying to gain some control back by pushing down others because he knows he isn’t free which would be a whole other can of worms lol

armando

aaaaaanndddd the episode eren becomes even harder to ‘defend’. in all seriousness almost every interaction we’ve seen from eren in s4 could be interpreted in multiple ways but one thing is certain, he made the choice to inflict this upon armin x mikasa when he didn’t ‘need’ to much like he didn’t ‘need’ to talk to reiner prior to the assault. i feel some of the rage towards armin is something he may really be letting out, the frustration that armin doesn’t agree with what he does (regardless of the memories stuff) or that armin wasn’t able to find a different solution but i definitely feel it’s not the entire picture. this becomes especially notable regarding mikasa imo. i feel eren definitely did harbour a lot of jealousy towards mikasa growing up and he admits this in s3, but it’s almost the opposite of the slave relationship he describes here. mikasa has always wanted to protect eren yes, but a lot of that is AGAINST erens expressed wishes, so perhaps this is some justification of that resentment from his childhood (whether or not the ‘ackerbond’ is real) which would go against the development we’ve seen post s2 but could also make sense depending on the route he’s going down now. the one thing that is categorically untrue is that he’s ‘always’ hated mikasa, it’s just not the case. she’s the reason he survived against dina, the one he needed to steady his hand before opening the book in the basement, the one he said he’d wrap the scarf around forever. this could very well be a tale of character regression and a cautionary one of the depths obsession will drive you to but, as with all things attack on titan, i just don’t feel as if the full picture has been presented yet. maybe i’ll be proven completely wrong but i think it would take away so much of the complexity surrounding who eren has become and to me it comes down to the ‘why’. why come here and do this if he really cared nothing about these two? eren is obsessive, driven, and willing to do awful things but nothing ive seen has led me to believe he’s sadistic to this extent. he attacks each of their deepest vulnerabilities and to me that’s somewhat deliberate, no matter what the reason turns out to be. would love to hear your thoughts as always and keep up the great content !

armando

Interesting connection, never thought of that. It makes me feel even worse for Armin, actually.

Maia Brodsky

Totally agree. Those moments and the train ride scene where Eren tells everyone how much he cares about them are the last things giving me hope that his motives are maybe more than he's letting on.

Nicholas Bell

And finally, about Floch, Keith, and Hange: How disturbing was it for you to see Floch give such an Erwin-like speech in such an awful context? I noticed you even started to agree with him a little when they started in with music and everything. Also, Hange having to witness that: remember that she 'adored' him when he was the leader of the Scouts, according to one of the other Scout elites in season 3. You can see the pain in her eyes when Floch is trying to get her to leave.

Maia Brodsky

While I agree with Eren about the sources of Mikasa's feelings for him (at least to an extent), here's why we have reason to doubt his feelings of hatred toward her: season 2 finale, after Hannes dies. He says, "I'll wrap that [scarf] around you as many times as you want. Now and forever, as much as you want!" He didn't always hate her, no way.

Maia Brodsky

It’s interesting to note that back in season 1 when Armin was getting bullied he says something like “you’re beating me up because you know I’m right. You can’t argue with me so you resort to physical violence”. It’s interesting that Armin is the one that made it violent in that opening scene, he couldn’t argue with what Eren was saying so he resorted to punching him. Now I’m not saying Eren is right or wrong, just that in that moment Armin had no answer for what Eren was saying so resorted to physical violence.

Jk844

Y'all rockin wit decimation?

MikeWest

Just want to remind you that Annie and Armin did have a special connection in season 1, which makes it even more interesting. Like, how much of his current interest is him, and how much is Berthold?

Maia Brodsky

All my homies hate zeke and floch

Amit

Such a painful episode, for everyone. I think you’re totally right, and I think that we Are meant to root for mikasa, Armin, hange and Levi here. I don’t the creator intended for us to sympathize with Eren when he’s being so cruel. Poor mikasa. This was actually build up and foreshadowed really really well, there were multiple instances where mikasa grabbed her head and seemed to have a headache. Also remember that Levi is an Ackermann too, so I suppose he also had this bond? (I didn’t read the manga so I’m speculating) but maybe to Erwin? Although Levi always did seem like his own person, but I guess their philosophies did alight, so it makes sense that he didn’t have to be forced into it as much? And Kenny? Maybe to Uri, he was very drawn to him.

Anna Lena Ciplajevs

I always disliked Floch, in this episode he just proves what a shit he is. His way of going about things gives me Stalin vibes.

Purple Dawn

Floch is a coward, a coward in the military with power is a disastrous combination

PS

Have you read the manga?

Sean Carroll

can't wait to see how your opinion about Zeke will change after the next episode

Tea-Spin

This makes me Hate Floch even more that was petty revenge for the trainer for making his life hell in boot camp the fucking coward is too weak to do it himself so he's making the kids do it for him. WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT. The one who shouldn't have survived the suicide assault lived

Ramon Cintron

I think Levi only drinks coffee

a. tree

"Your honor I didn't kill anyone they just got caught in the trajectory of the bullets I shot"

Etsch

“Why are you blaming Eren for the death of the people in the building. I mean they had the choice of not being in the specific building that was behind the stage” -Actual quote from 10,000 IQ YouTube commentator on the latest Goodwin reaction who is very much a full blown Jaegerist. He goes on to say…”Eren didn’t kill any civilians, They got caught in it”. LOL. By the way, this guys original comment has like 20 likes, there are many real life Floch’s lurking among us everyone, stay safe.

benj

Floch just goes home and lays in his bed thinking, "How can I make the audience hate me even more tomorrow?" Beyond just standing up for what he believed in, Shadis did something subtle but even more heroic in that scene. Those recruits came forward and pledged themselves to the Jaegerists, but they were hesitant when Floch told them to attack Shadis. Shadis surely knew he couldn't actually take them on, but by challenging them he was essentially giving them permission/incentive to beat him, FOR THEIR SAKE. If they hadn't, they would have been imprisoned (and possibly killed). That whole scene is once again frighteningly similar to things that have really happened. Tyrants, dictators and the like love to make sure everybody is implicated together to enforce loyalty. Look up the Ba'ath Party Purge. Saddam Hussein cleaned house and arrested a bunch of party members who were alleged to have conspired against him. Many were sentenced to death, and the remaining members were ordered to carry out the executions. Despicable.

Xylen

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ZEKE MENTIONED WINE AND IT WENT OVER UR HEAD OH NO THIS IS SUCH A HARD EPISODE HALF CUZ OF EREN BEATING UP ARMIN BUT ALSO OF WHAT ZEKE DOES IN THIS FOREST JFLBSDJGBKSJDGBKSJDGB also p'sure everyone cept levi has had the wine??? I can't wait for part 2 of final season lfdgbsdfjgbskjgb

Brimmy

I was actually sobbing when I watched this episode the first time. Especially watching Levi have to deal with his soldiers like that since we know he's had to lose so many people. I might've just been emotional that weekend lol but I couldn't stop crying

Ashley A.

what eren did was unjustified, any context, no backstory or motive can justify the treatment of his two closest loved ones during this episode. But I find it hard to take what he says at face value. Eren ALWAYS hated Mikasa?? He made continuous effort to assure her safety from childhood to adulthood. Armin was debatably Eren's favorite person in the world. What did Armin actually do to provoke Eren into beating Armin into a pulp? I feel like Eren knows that Armin and Mikasa are weaknesses in regard to completion of his goals, and eren is on a journey to cut ties with his empathy in pursuit of what he feels is "right" (which is an atrocious way to go about things), so in turn he wanted to give Armin and Mikasa ample reason to cut ties with him. There was definitely some truth to it, he might've often been aggravated at Mikasa's blind devotion to him, or he might've disliked how Armin's developing feelings for Annie. But not to this extent, it feels somewhat performative.

Mads C

There’s just something so satisfying about seeing Zeke getting charred by Levi

QuillerKeen

Wow that's amazing to think about

Alex G

I didn't notice. Not sure what to make of that! Has he become a slave to something? Lol and yeah pretty much sums up my feelings about Levi and Zeke as well :)

Alex G

LOL I made a comment on the previous episode about Floch constantly trying to channel this bastardized version of Erwin based on his darkest qualities (the "devil" that Floch saw during his final charge)... now in this episode we have him attempting to give a whole Erwin-style speech, complete with dramatic fanfare and everything. Literally when I saw this episode I was like "what are you Julius Caesar?" Then I realized who he's imitating. And the thing is, what Floch is presenting is especially appealing to the new iterations of the Scouts, and that's why seemingly the only non-Yeagerists are the ones who were with the Survey Corps since before the uprising. These new members of the military joined to advance this "New Eldian Empire" and destroy their enemy; the old Survey Corps — people like Hange and Jean and yes, Erwin, contrary to who Floch thinks he was — they all wanted to save *humanity.* To build a better world, not just a better existence for their "side." But none of the new generation understand what the OG's have been through, and so there's this schism.

a. tree

Yeah I don't think it's the total truth, just a partial one.

Alex G

Shadis actually saved thr cadets who refused to join Floch.

ArmdVctr

I mean, with hindsight after his backstory it's pretty easy to understand why he thinks that way

Polygon

I agreed with your main points in this episode. I'd like to add on but I'm worried I may accidentally allude to future events. This is one of my favorite episodes even though its painful to see my favorite characters struggle. Anyway, two more episodes to go!!!

Shark-ira

AoT is a show about complex global political intrigue between intricate characters espousing conflicting and often suicidal philosophies, and yet nothing gets me jumping up and down in my chair like a kangaroo with ADHD more than seeing Levi go to town on Zeke. Did you notice that K21, aka Kenny's theme, played during the fight?

secretsecret

It also feels to me like there's another motivation to the Yaegerists beyond that of the leaders like Eren who probably do NOT enjoy this kind of behavior but see it as necessary, and that's riding a wave of power, or nationalism or something like that.

Alex G

Right... I didn't get the sense that Eren felt good about what he said to Armin and Mikasa, just from his facial expressions and stuff like that. It felt like there was something else behind why he was telling him this. But when he was beating on Armin, that felt REAL. There was actual rage and malice behind those punches, and I don't know why. Was he just letting out his emotions on Armin? Is he angry at Armin for something else? Why was he so enraged and why did he choose to unleash it all physically on his best friend? It was incredibly disturbing to watch Eren turn on him like that. Meanwhile Mikasa just has to stand by and watch basically her entire world get torn apart, not sure what to do or who to help or who to hold back because all she wants is for the three of them to be a unit again. I'm really glad though that she went to hold Armin. The both of them are going to need to really be there for each other after going through this together.

a. tree

I can tell you why you love seeing Levi beating Zeke up. Back when he was playing baseball when he got so mad at the scouts he turned the boulder to dust, and then has the audacity to say it was for their own good.

R'Mani Leavell

I don't believe Eren when he says he always hated Mikasa because end of season 2 I thought they had a heart to heart moment.

Yeah, Eren telling Mikasa he hates her was rough, but it's not unthinkable; like you said he pulled away from her a lot. But there is something so gut-wrenching about Eren beating up Armin. There just isn't much reason for it other than Armin getting mad and punching him. It just.... It just hurts when I watch it.

Aidan Pullen

I think I agree with the analysis about all the beats from this episode. We don't know what Eren and Zeke are planning, so all we can see is them using others and mistreating people for their own gains. The more I think about it and the more I listen to your commentary, I don't understand how you justify these actions as "doing the right thing" for Eldians. Even in this "cruel world" should we not try to live up to some sort of moral standards? When I see people who are proud to be "Yaegerists" after seeing what Floch decided to do, I'm just confused. (Some people speculate that Shadis decided to take the beating so the cadets would not be punished further). Apologies for the rant! But look forward to the last 2 episodes of AoT!

Aura Y

RIGHT. That makse sense

Alex G

So the reason Keith was urgently training them to fight Titans in Shiganshina was that the military had just found out that the entire upper level of the MPs was administered Zeke's spinal fluid. Most of the military especially including anyone who drank Zeke's wine was moved to Shiganshina, which had previously been evacuated for other military purposes, so that if Zeke does activate them, the casualties will be kept to a minimum. The heads of the Training Corps just didn't want to cause a panic amongst the cadets by saying "Hey, you all are very likely going to be fighting your Titan-ized superiors TOMORROW." But yeah, Keith is preparing them all for an imminent emergency. Nobody's fought pure Titans for years and they need to be ready to fight a Titan army that Zeke may spawn within days. Also, the effectiveness of raising a standing army is questionable — if the forces of the world mobilize in a land offensive (or a sea offensive or sky offensive), Paradis would definitely lose, barring Eren does something with his Founder. Even one nation's military could overpower a hypothetical Paradis standing army. Similarly to Erwin's scouting formation, the best strategy here is to figure out a way not to fight.

a. tree

It is

Zoap

is it just me or the youtube link is private?

Jafeth Díaz

Now we know why Mikasa said Ereh so many times throughout the show Makes it even more tragic that she can't detach from that oath of protection fully. (I know it's not called oath of protection just not sure what to call it.) Anyway I'll update tomorrow when I watch this one

Nick