Take 2: Patreon Payment Changes
Added 2017-12-13 20:09:28 +0000 UTCDue to a non-zero amount of internet outrage, Patreon isn't changing their fee structure. You can all breathe a sigh of relief!
Addendum:
To briefly explain how this works (as of now, the system is not changing, so this explains how the payment structure used to work, and will continue to work):
When you pledge, PayPal and Patreon each take a cut before it gets to MFoV. PayPal takes 2.9% + an extra 35 cents, and Patreon takes 5%. Because that 35 cents doesn't change based on pledge size, this means the percent we get can vary from around 92% (larger pledges) to 42% ($1 pledges.)
Tldr; MFoV percent = Pledge - 2.9% - 35 cents - 5%.
Comments
They definitely went about this the wrong way. I can't believe they thought people would take it lying down.
The Nails of Vecna
2017-12-14 18:22:11 +0000 UTCSteve, I also went looking for how to comment directly to patreon and I didn't find it outside of the generic company contact. Their blog announcing it didn't have the ability to receive comments. So I imagine a lot of patron's didn't get to speak directly. Although creators sowed there was an immediate loss of revenue as patron's deleted their pledges. This *IS* something that patreon could measure with a basic report of activity and confirm the negative financial impact.
Royal Frazier
2017-12-14 13:40:57 +0000 UTCCharge per creator pledge, not per bank transaction is ridiculous. It indicates that people in Patreon are really bad at math or not very practiced at wool pulling. How that made it through the implementation phase is astonishing. Remember, programmers have been working on these changes for week/months prior to rollout. Perhaps, like many companies, voices of opposition to management's "great ideas" are quieted by an atmosphere of "never listening." I've seen that in company after company. People know what is being done is disastrous, but you know bringing it up is wasted breath, or just inviting negativity on yourself.
Royal Frazier
2017-12-14 13:36:15 +0000 UTC(Oh, also: Patreon's new pricing scheme would have charged the .35 fee to /every/ pledge. It's in the fine print, but it was there in the initial email. I believe that one detail set everyone off.)
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-14 01:38:29 +0000 UTCI'm glad we made the cut! It's probably great for Patreon that they've decided not to change anything (so you'll be paying the same this month as last month.) I think when they said they didn't see much blow back, they were taking everyone's goodwill for granted, which is an easy thing to do when your entire platform is based on positivity and support. On the subject of mid-month releases: early on, I tried to keep up with a small mid-month release, just for patrons, but it got hard to schedule that along with 3/week posts on the blog. I decided to replace it with the monthly Poll (which I believe everyone is a fan of), simply to keep everything running smoothly. I'd hate to promise something like that and only be able to deliver 50% of the time, after all.
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-14 01:36:49 +0000 UTCI agree with you almost completely across the board here. I hope Patreon continues to improve their payment scheme (and it looks as if they will after this fiasco), and it'd be cool if they implemented some of the changes you suggested. As it stands now, they're basically like an extension of PayPal-enabled tip-jars, and when you judge them against that, they're a godsend. Here's hoping they can make the pricing a little more regular for everyone in the future. For now, though, I don't plan on changing my process unless I get some top-rate suggestions.
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-14 01:28:23 +0000 UTCFirst, l am not a fan of the changes Patreon is making. I'm not well off, but a few extra bucks allows me to supports my hobby's industry and still pay the bills. I used to support 7 creators... on average of $2 each (again not wealthy) and a couple at $3. So with these changes I've dropped a few creators, sadly - but still support a two of them. And one of them is MFoV. The quality of work is something thats makes me happy to support, even if I wish there was a little more being churned out (even if it were small little things - a character, a location description, that sort of thing) and dropped during the middle of the month to supplement your monthly releases. Having said that I love your work, so I've decided to keep you. However that means there is some unhappy creators out there. I find it hard to believe there were no (or very little resistance to this) - it took me a while to figure out how to send the Patreon people a comment (its not obvious - kinda hidden away) - so I guess they can honestly say "not much blow back" because its not like they invite comments. Anyways, I've stayed with 2 creators and we'll see how it goes.
steve rennie
2017-12-14 00:28:13 +0000 UTCI think Patreon set this up poorly from the start. They do combine payments at beginning of the month to avoid making $1 charges to paypal or credit cards. So the fees they incur are actually spread across all that I patronize, not per creator. If they were just going to charge me $8 +.35 + .29%*$8, that isn't that big across all that I support. If they were going to charge .35 +2.9% per creator then that would be bad. But I believe they were going to do the former not the latter. Although everyone explained it as the latter. Personally I would prefer if they operated Patreon like a Starbucks card. I link an account, I declare a minimum balance and auto-replensihment when it goes below. They charge the bank fees to me based upon whether *I* choose paypal or CC, and how often I replenish. That puts *ME* in control of minimizing my fees. IF I supported only one $1 creator a month, I could load the account with $12 and only be hit by the bank fee once a year. And for the other issue, you simply charge a full month for any partial, basically pro-rate how much of the month I used if I cancel. It wouldn't be bizarre to say any cancellation cancels at the end of the month, so the creator still gets paid for the initial sign-up. Just put that up front and be done with it. I don't see how charge-up-front works with per-item creators. Lastly, I'm not in love with the per-item charges. It makes this confusing and unless I put a cap--I won't know what I'm paying. As is I don't believe Patreon gives us any accounting for how much we pay each creator and what for. So no auditing of accuracy from our end. I'd rather see a monthly subscription with per-item charge for multiple/higher quality items. One odd thing I found with some creators, is that when they have higher charge items, they don't provide any preview for those not on that tier. If you are going to market yourself, you should at least discuss, with an explanation, maybe a picture, your higher $$ content at the FREE level. This way everyone sees what they might get at the higher tier. I've never grabbed the highest tier on any creator, because I don't know what I'm buying. Blind buying... is asking too much of any consumer--and many creators do this. Don't give me it partially or trying to lock it, just show me so I have an idea of it when you offer the higher $$ content.
Royal Frazier
2017-12-13 22:20:38 +0000 UTCI do understand that. It does just help put it into perspective though. It’s a little hard to swallow, but hopefully it helps others realize the value in the higher tiers. (Not that I’m trying to tell anyone they need to 😝)
Wyrm_f00d
2017-12-13 20:36:13 +0000 UTCI also agree with Wyrm_f00d and Matthew. I wouldn't have minded the extra to make sure content producers are adequately rewarded. I do understand how the changes and extra has the potential to drive away subscribers, though. I wonder if Patreon would consider allowing subscribers to opt in to the extra. I think that would be much easier to stomach for some people given that they have the option to decline should it not be in their budget or other reasons.
Zhern
2017-12-13 20:35:59 +0000 UTCThese changes mostly influence people who are paying $1-$2 a month. As I told Wyrm_f00d, I'd never ask someone to contribute more than the Producer tier -- your generosity is already hard to properly show appreciation for.
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-13 20:32:02 +0000 UTCAddendum added. Because Patreon didn't change the fee structure, we make more like 88% (on average) of our pledges. But /you're/ already a $10 patron -- I would never ask more from anyone -- it's genuinely hard to express how thankful I am for every Producer's support.
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-13 20:29:29 +0000 UTCLemme make an addendum to the post to better explain the fee structure.
Mage Hand Press
2017-12-13 20:19:01 +0000 UTCI agree with Wyrm_f00d. If this means that y'all still don't get the full 95% then I'm a little upset about it, and I would not of minded paying an extra few bucks if y'all got the majority of what I was pledging. Oh well, hopefully they get this figured out here soon.
Attackins
2017-12-13 20:18:26 +0000 UTCSo just checking here, you wonderful people always get 95% of our pledges correct? Or would the changes have made what you earn better? I’m just wondering. I honestly wouldn’t have minded paying an extra dollar or two if it meant you earned a better percentage. Sounds like they were just trying to compensate for credit card and PayPal fees.
Wyrm_f00d
2017-12-13 20:15:28 +0000 UTC
