Comments
What's somewhat ironic about this tell of theirs is that "Whedon-speak" and the lacing of jokes in serious moments was pretty much invented and then refined in his early shows: Buffy, Angel, and Firefly.
Lovok
2025-02-06 00:39:41 +0000 UTCI do agree with "heavy handed" comment. The characters literally shout their beliefs at each other in almost every scene. But I like it anyway.
Steve Boshear
2025-02-05 17:55:57 +0000 UTCLove this episode, loved your reaction.
Steve Boshear
2025-02-05 17:38:23 +0000 UTCIt's just like you're an attorney and you have a client that keeps asking "what if...?" questions. None of which matter because they haven't happened.
Jovet
2025-02-05 02:27:34 +0000 UTCThat’s funny 😆
Shanelle
2025-02-05 02:21:05 +0000 UTCLove this reaction. I’ve watched it twice. Your love for Worf and the fact that the episode actually got you!
Shanelle
2025-02-05 02:06:16 +0000 UTCI don't think it's just that, even rewatching it this time knowing Worf doesn't die, I still felt it was a truly fantastic episode. The interplay between all the characters we love showing genuine affection and fear over potentially losing their comrade, it's truly excellent.
Paul
2025-02-05 00:38:41 +0000 UTCRegarding Crusher's response to hypotheticals, I think what she meant was she wasn't going to make a medical decision on a real life patient in the here and now based solely or even partially on hypothetical discussions on the potential future benefits of this treatment. Similar to how Picard dismissed Rasmussen's "next Hitler" scenarios in A Matter of Time. When the stakes are real, and that high, you don't care about debating hypothetical future scenarios. You care about making the best decision that you can in the present moment with what you already have.
BN13
2025-02-04 23:53:14 +0000 UTCYeah it was a pretty cool thing to pick up on. I'm quite a fan of the musical cues and whatnot in DS9
E Parhas
2025-02-04 19:18:11 +0000 UTCUpon rewatching this one, I agree. It's fantastic! This episode is highly underrated. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone, myself. Included, remembers this as just ok. I think it's because most of us first saw this absolutely knowing that Worf wasn't going to die, so we never really got fully invested? Then since nobody really believed that that barrel would cause that much damage, and his bringing himself back to life at the end could almost seem like a cop out, people ended up not taking this episode seriously? That's a shame because if you let yourself get invested in it, it's VERY well done.
BN13
2025-02-04 18:37:45 +0000 UTCI noticed that in this episode too!
Daniel Calcagno
2025-02-04 17:00:36 +0000 UTCNo. Didn't matter that Picard was there, that was just Worf being Worf
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-02-04 15:32:03 +0000 UTCWorf: The irony of your doctor having the name of how you were injured...
Jovet
2025-02-04 11:07:55 +0000 UTCSo, what you're saying is... if Picard hadn't been there, he would have killed Toral...?
Jovet
2025-02-04 11:03:24 +0000 UTCFan fiction isn't good writing.
Jovet
2025-02-04 10:59:06 +0000 UTC@paultardspambot It isn't likely to be possible for a lay person to be able to distinguish promising medical science from medical quackery. If an experimental treatment is really medically promising, that's great, but it takes a lot of research and evidence (e.g. time) to get to that point. That leaves the medical quacks to give false hope in exchange for temporary glory (and money). That damages the medical profession as a whole.
Jovet
2025-02-04 10:58:13 +0000 UTC@Clyde Frog I believe that's the message the episode was trying to convey.
Jovet
2025-02-04 10:54:56 +0000 UTCI held each of my parents' hands when they died. I made sure they were not alone.
Jovet
2025-02-04 10:53:48 +0000 UTCMore like 'heavy fisted' ....
Jovet
2025-02-04 10:51:18 +0000 UTCI've noticed the music in some episodes is starting to sound DS9-ish, never picked up on that before
E Parhas
2025-02-04 07:27:32 +0000 UTCIm not a huge gates McFadden fan, but she knocks this episode out of the park. I think it’s my favorite doc crusher performance.
Bantha Fodder
2025-02-04 03:13:29 +0000 UTCSo someone shouldnt be able to use treatment because other people will be foolish? I don't see how that's fair
paultardspambot .
2025-02-04 00:29:53 +0000 UTCExactly! I knew he survived and yet somehow was thinking huh, did I misremember? Lol
Paul
2025-02-03 23:14:49 +0000 UTCYeah I noticed that, they tend to feel uncomfortable if material is 100% serious without any quips involved, to the extent that they will add them themselves if none are provided by the show. That said, they clearly appreciate serious matter, so it's less a dislike for serious matter and more of an acquired quirk due to modern films imbibed themselves into their psyche. It's definitely something I dislike about MCU films. Especially later ones. Earlier Iron Man had a bit of humor but it was much more grounded.
Paul
2025-02-03 23:13:55 +0000 UTCYup. Crusher's argument isn't very strong in dealing specifically with an individual, namely Worf. But on a holistic level it makes sense as it protects the vulnerable from scammers or "doctors" with ill intent.
Paul
2025-02-03 23:10:30 +0000 UTCYes, Phase II. Kitumba, anyone? I think 1 of the fan-based series did that story into a full "episode". The James Cawley folks, right?
Collin Freeman
2025-02-03 22:04:44 +0000 UTCJapanese Vikings
Fishing Trip
2025-02-03 21:54:18 +0000 UTCI'm going to bet the NEXT episode is the one that really has people calling it heavy-handed.
Joe Concepts
2025-02-03 20:50:37 +0000 UTCS for sure a great episode and even though I knew he survived I was in the edge of my seat 🥹
AzoriusMage
2025-02-03 19:41:08 +0000 UTCPretty sure the episode clearly states internal organs. Otherwise, I find that a juvenile and immature take away that's fun to titter at because of how counter it is to the ethos Trek maintained for 50 years. Much like the old "swear trek" twitter page that edited cursing into moments from the show via gifs, these things are funny because they run counter to the way Trek presented itself. For Trek to embrace things like that defeats the humour for me, because it removes what was funny about those things and what's left is just purile, immature nonsense, IMO.
Nolan
2025-02-03 19:34:25 +0000 UTCSome observations I had during your reactions that aren't really critques, but just got me thinking: You can tell you guys both grew up with the MCU and Whedon writing as you guys tend to not let heavy moments of pathos go by without dropping a joke at the end. I find that funny because a lot of that type of humor is something many are starting to feel the MCU is over-indulgent in using, possibly including you guys. It's fascinating because of how subtly that behaviour has crept in where as a society, we shrink away from moments of ernestness and deep feeling and have now started NEEDING a wry afterthought to "save" us from falling into heavy emotions. It's all over the internet. But you guys are also being entertaining on the internet, so you gotta get your moments when you can get them. The real curiosity is if you guys are aware that you're emulating the MCU humor style, or if it's so ingrained it's a reflex? The other two observations I have are about just how much experience can shape perspective. When Alexander is telling Worf about his multiplication tables, even if I didn't know you guys don't have/want kids in your life, I could tell by your response you don't. I don't have any children of my own, but I do have cousins that are younger, and you get invested in them. You're happy to hear they're doing well in school, because it means they have potential you desperately hope they realize and become better than you. It's also supremely validating to know this young person values your opinion of you enough to try and make you proud with their accomplishments. No one will ever value your opinion as much as a child that looks up to you. And yeah, that's a scary amount of responsibility. Finally, regardless of how good/bad a performance Alexander's actor gave in that scene where he went to see Worf after he'd died... it wouldn't have mattered for me. I probably would've been more critical 24 years ago, but then my own Dad died and I didn't even need the performances to do any heavy lifting, because the situation itself called back to me, the son, walking into a hospice room to see my own Dad laying there on the bed, gone. That's a response only experience brings. Consequently, anything to do with fathers, sons and loss is guarunteed to get me weepy. GotG Vol. 2 for example is one I'll always become a firehose at. But you guys have different experiences and perspectives, thus different responses. That's the beauty of reaction channels. To see through responses, different perspectives/experiences. It's a shame that some are so blinded by their own understanding, they lack the ability to understand others. And no, I'm TOTALLY not side-eyeing the Star Trek 6 comment section.
Nolan
2025-02-03 19:25:59 +0000 UTCI mean, while Worf has always modeled himself as the klingon's klingon, the fact is he was raised by humans and incorporated human values into his klingon beliefs. That's what makes him as a character unique. Worf's whole discommendation arc was him seeing that klingons can be real fuckers and aren't half as honorable as they claim to be. Then you cap that off with him sparing Toral's life, and we see Worf is very much his own man, striking a balance between human and klingon beliefs by taking the best of both worlds. In this case the klingon way was to give up, and Worf chose to fight a nearly unwinnable battle instead, and he came out on top. I don't see how that weakens the character at all.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-02-03 17:42:32 +0000 UTCWow, kudos to the writers/directors for getting you with the fakeout. Definitely a better episode than I remember, I guess it helps not knowing if Worf is still there in future episodes. Changing my tier from a B to an A+ at the very lowest.
Evan Guthrie
2025-02-03 17:39:01 +0000 UTCThat makes sense 🖖
Dan Here
2025-02-03 16:20:14 +0000 UTCThis episode always make me blubber like a girl. Though, a lot of Star Trek episodes do that to me. Shit, even just the DS9 and VOY theme songs will do that to me. Memories of watching with my Mom, Dad and little sister. Sigh. That scene where Picard tells Bev that Worf cant make the journey she is asking him to is phenomenal, like the entire episode.
Clyde Frog
2025-02-03 16:14:04 +0000 UTCYes, it was the barrel on top of the deformed one that fell.
Keith S
2025-02-03 14:26:05 +0000 UTCthe things that they describe as filler are simply how all programs were at the time. Serialized storitelling they way they describe it simply didn't even exist. So I'd guess every show was filler to them.
Kekkersboy
2025-02-03 13:29:22 +0000 UTCwow been a patreon for a while and my first ever post gets used in the vid, feels good.
Kekkersboy
2025-02-03 13:23:00 +0000 UTCI can see both sides of the argument being valid here. Tough one.
Clyde Frog
2025-02-03 12:21:24 +0000 UTCThe O.P. transporter sure could strike again! You could just duplicate yourself a billion times, too, just in case.
Jovet
2025-02-03 12:09:53 +0000 UTCI rate it a "B". There are many entertaining and thought-provoking moments in this episode, but... ● I find it difficult to believe that Starfleet would sanction stacking chemical barrels like that if their construction allows to readily deform on loss of product/pressure like that; ● Worf's metal sash probably exacerbated his injury and that was never brought up; ● The push of human values on to Worf was cliché and arrogant, and his acceding to them weakens his character; ● Worf got a hold of the knife that Riker left but did not use it despite his conviction; ● The medical moral ambiguity of the episode bothers me greatly... Dr. Crusher was right, no ifs ands or buts about it (see below); ● The notion of miracle cures for the tens of billions of nerves that pass through and out of the spinal column is too daunting of me for them to just gloss over with "tissue growth" right at the end of the operation. Dr. Russell did the wrong thing for the wrong reason—Worf only survived because of some Klingon brain miracle nobody knew about, whereas a human patient would have died. Crusher summed it up with "putting her research ahead of her patients" with regards to Dr. Russell, which is truly horrific and UNETHICAL. It's a double-edge sword that Worf was so influenced by human values while at the same time in the care of human doctors with human values. It saved his life, barely... but again those values are human. I think this episode tries to be not preachy, and I've never perceived it as preachy, but it could be more subtle than I believe.
Jovet
2025-02-03 12:05:53 +0000 UTCI'm sure they would have both agreed on condemning Dr. Russell's tactics.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:49:06 +0000 UTC@Keith S Yeah, and their tricorders should have found that leak in under 5 seconds. Geordi could have spotted it faster since it appeared to be cold upon reaction with air or pressure gradient. @Jason Lallathin Nope, you are correct. The lower container had a leak and ended up deforming... which I always found very odd that they would stack things like that which could deform like that. The ship is jostled around enough all the time...
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:48:10 +0000 UTCI think the point was that no human can truly appreciate Worf's point of view in this situation. Despite "respecting the beliefs of other cultures", Worf acceded to human values. I believe that weakens his character to a degree. This is a "B" for me.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:45:13 +0000 UTC@Paul This episode was a bit emotional for them. We didn't have bawling, but ...
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:43:27 +0000 UTCI also like Pulaski. But I also like Crusher. And I'm confident they would both agree on condemning Dr. Russell's behavior.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:42:29 +0000 UTC@Sherpa Jones *Buckle up, buckaroos!!
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:39:38 +0000 UTCBecause that lower one had a leak. Kinda lame that the barrel would be engineered to allow to deform like that with loss of internal pressure or whatnot.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:38:27 +0000 UTCStill a "B" for me. It's a very entertaining episode, but the portrayal of ethical contradiction bothers me. Crusher's line, "The first tenet of good medicine is never make the patient any worse!" is absolutely paramount to righteous medical care and ethical standards. Experimenting on people to test theories without any compassion or conscience is inhumane. It's been called a war crime repeatedly throughout history.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:36:38 +0000 UTCThe problem with that is it opens up a vulnerable population to crackpots and charlatans.
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:32:42 +0000 UTCTradition is not law
Jovet
2025-02-03 11:31:44 +0000 UTCRiker looking into Klingon law reminds me of Riker playing prosecution in 'Measure of a Man'. Both times he found the perfect little key to make his case. Riker sets his mind to something and he wins, he just wins. But this time the perfect argument saved a life instead of condemning one, so no doubt a proud moment.
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-02-03 09:26:18 +0000 UTCOh shit, I never caught on that either
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-02-03 09:18:33 +0000 UTCI don't agree with Crusher here. As someone with a degenerative auto-immune disease that degrades my spine over time,I have often had to resort to treatments doctors said no to. I firmly believe it needs to be the patients choice about what risks they are willing to take, the chance at better quality of life versus the risk of life is not a decision for doctors to make but for the individual whose life it is. My body, my choice.
paultardspambot .
2025-02-03 07:50:30 +0000 UTCThe people who were hurt ran into an old cardassian mine from the previous war.
paultardspambot .
2025-02-03 07:48:05 +0000 UTCI don't think so. They love emotional episodes so I think the episode we're all thinking of will hit hard.
Paul
2025-02-03 07:37:11 +0000 UTCI think it's canon that Klingons have two dicks. No lie.
Michael Nemo
2025-02-03 07:14:03 +0000 UTCI have seen interviews with Canadians who are disabled that said they were trying to persuade them to do MAID.
Mike Rogers
2025-02-03 06:38:13 +0000 UTCGreat reaction, guys. Great discussion. :)
Aaron Wells
2025-02-03 06:30:46 +0000 UTCI am so confused by this episode, to the extent that I'm convinced I'm in an alternate timeline. Because I remember watching this episode, in fact I remember a lot of the scenes, yet somehow distorted? I rated this a C... didn't care for it. Rewatching it with you, holy crap is this one of the best of the whole show up to this point. Huh? How was it this good? Was I just a moron when I last saw this, what the hell lol. That Riker scene was out of this world. And Picard's scene, and all of Worf's scenes and... wow.
Paul
2025-02-03 06:29:24 +0000 UTCEvil, motivational Data standing at the foot of Worf's bed "You, Klingon. Attack me. Are you afraid?"
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-02-03 06:25:38 +0000 UTCThey wanted to expand MAID so that people could get it merely for having depression, including children as young as 12. Cpl. Christine Gauthier, who suffered knee and spine injuries nowhere near as severe as Worf had here was trying to get veteran's affairs to install a wheelchair lift at her home and was asked if she wanted MAID. So it goes FAR beyond people who are terminally ill.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-02-03 06:21:11 +0000 UTCRemember Cordrizine? "It'll kill him." ? If you remember, that's what Bones got a snootfull of in City on the Edge of Forever.
StealthMomo
2025-02-03 05:38:37 +0000 UTCI find the 'filler' comment baffling. This is an episodic show. Yes there are plot threads that continue throughout the series, but they don't define the overarching plot of the series because there isn't meant to be one specifically. Secondly, I don't consider an episode like this that has so many great character moments to be filler in the first place. This is an important character development episode. I think that makes it matter a lot. Lastly, who cares about filler? I think filler is totally fine. I don't understand why people make such a big deal out of it. If a story wants to go off on a tangent or just chill for a bit, I think that's great. The only concerns for me are quality and adherence to continuity.
Paul Noad
2025-02-03 05:36:26 +0000 UTCNo titles? Are you kidding me? "Distant Echoes" is an absolute banger! No was I can't just drop that title!
Sherpa Jones
2025-02-03 04:49:51 +0000 UTCI loved Pulaski. Part of me wishes it was HER as the guest character here.
Sherpa Jones
2025-02-03 04:48:30 +0000 UTCYeah, I'm just looking ahead at what's to come. Buckle up folks!
Sherpa Jones
2025-02-03 04:46:37 +0000 UTCA good episode is one that, despite knowing the outcome when re-watching, it can make me feel things, especially for what the characters are facing in the moment.
Sherpa Jones
2025-02-03 04:44:06 +0000 UTCAs you said, they don't want to kill the actor with the barrel. But story wise, that barrel was full, it was the one below it that was leaking and collapsed, so Worf took the impact of probably 500-1000 lbs square on his spine. On the larger topic of euthanasia, I live in a country that provides medical assistance in dying. However, our medical system would never allow someone in Worf's condition access to MAID. You pretty much have to be in palliative care. My dear friend lost her husband to brain cancer, and he elected for MAID. By that time he was losing control of his emotions and his personality was changing. He went out on his own terms, not in extended suffering, pain, and torment for himself and his beloved wife. And our most beloved poet, singer, and frontman, Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip, died of the same brain tumor a few years prior. While we don't know all the details, it is safe to assume he chose the same dignified end as my friend's husband. We can euthanize our pets, but we still struggle to come to terms with allowing our loved ones to die with greater dignity and less suffering.
Sherpa Jones
2025-02-03 04:37:41 +0000 UTCYes that’s another relic of Phase II, where they planned a deep dive into Klingon culture that would have been very Japanese. The TNG staff, especially Ron Moore, took that and ran with it.
tyranusfan
2025-02-03 03:45:35 +0000 UTCStarfleet’s OSHA rules seem lax. No restraints on the shelf!
tyranusfan
2025-02-03 03:43:01 +0000 UTCI almost wish you guys did a second poll to see what people rate it now after watching it again. I think I had it at a B, maybe an A, but now this is an easy S. I see lots of comments with people upgrading it to an S. I think my memory was just hung up on the barrel scene being kinda ridiculous.
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-02-03 03:40:26 +0000 UTCVI used the sets over the summer between Redemption I &II. The main relic of this is the new wall in the observation lounge. They blew it up in the movie, and starting in this season the old wall which held the golden starships was replaced when the set was rebuilt.
tyranusfan
2025-02-03 03:39:15 +0000 UTCI LOVE these animated discussions! We get so much in this episode. Worf's beliefs, Crusher's ethics, Alexander's emotions, Deanna's skill, Riker's friendship, Picard's understanding of Klingon culture, etc.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2025-02-03 03:39:03 +0000 UTCIf you look carefully, the barrel that was on top felt because the one under it began to crush near the top. 🖖
Dan Here
2025-02-03 03:38:57 +0000 UTCI actually liked Pulaski. I probably like Dr. Crusher a little more
Anthony Picard
2025-02-03 03:21:49 +0000 UTClol
Anthony Picard
2025-02-03 03:20:06 +0000 UTCI think the full one on top of the damaged barrel hit Worf, could be wrong though
Jason Lallathin
2025-02-03 03:10:18 +0000 UTCI think many of us mistook her for Jane Lynch!
Column Meanie
2025-02-03 02:59:48 +0000 UTCOkay, fine. *scratches out "A"* I forgot lots of things. Remembered the dumb blue barrels though. S!
Jason Lallathin
2025-02-03 02:59:42 +0000 UTCI think this episode is a solid A at the very least. I mentioned in a previous comment section that this middle period of S5 has a bunch of episodes that probably all kind of blur together for people, and I think some fans who rate it low are simply not remembering it being as good as it is. Or they've rewatched it to the point where the flaws stick out and are overwhelming. Would be an S for me if it wasn't for the Hilary Clinton lookalike. She's fine, I just hate that look.
THE LORE!!!
2025-02-03 02:31:06 +0000 UTCI looked back at what I voted before, and I had it as an A. After rewatching today, I agree this deserves an S. So many good scenes, good plot / delimma, well acted, and they really sell his death.
Forbidden Donut
2025-02-03 02:23:12 +0000 UTCIt's the hair. Beautiful eyes tho...
Michael Metrick
2025-02-03 01:46:01 +0000 UTCLet’s gooo!!
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-02-03 01:37:06 +0000 UTCData was on vacation on Risa...
Michael Metrick
2025-02-03 01:35:43 +0000 UTCYeah you’re probably right there. Im guessing this season was a strain - ST6, TNG and DS9 all in various stages of production at the same time. I wonder if they all were sharing the sets at the same time?
Worf and Riker Ride Again
2025-02-03 01:34:53 +0000 UTCI originally gave this an A because I skimmed through the episode and missed some of the key parts. Definitely upgrading to an S after watching it in full, dang the scene where he dies gave me tears, even though I fully knew he’d be fine. So many great acting moments and it does the TNG classic of raising a point and letting you decide which Doctor you think is right. I’ll make sure I watch the episodes fully from now on…
Worf and Riker Ride Again
2025-02-03 01:28:25 +0000 UTCWe are family.....SSS+ Still to come this season: 3 Ss and 3 As.
thebeefmaster
2025-02-03 01:25:51 +0000 UTCYet again, I voted B in the poll, but watching it now, it hit so fucking hard. Agree with muli-S. Fucking great.
Joe Green
2025-02-03 01:23:48 +0000 UTCIf Data were there, the episode would have ended fifteen minutes in. Worf: Lieutenant, please help me die. Data: As you wish.
KevinH
2025-02-03 01:21:18 +0000 UTCyeah beam a healthy spine right in
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-02-03 01:09:45 +0000 UTCand my guess is people will be disspointed
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-02-03 01:05:53 +0000 UTCI've also never really noticed this, but -- Brent Spiner is just not in this episode. He got the week off!
ScotchBeard78
2025-02-03 01:01:20 +0000 UTCIt's funny, I never think of this episode and it's never a go-to rewatch, but watching it again with you guys, I'm reminded of how many good dramatic scenes there are for the actors. Like genuine meaty emotional territory that they're just allowed to stew in and play off each other. Not just that Riker scene where he denies Worf's request, but also the scene that gets me is the one where Picard appeals to Beverly about allowing the surgery. It's just classy acting on all fronts, and it's a strong episode. Classic TNG.
ScotchBeard78
2025-02-03 00:56:33 +0000 UTCBoy these guys have a real Hard on for hating Dr. Pulaski, I mean i don't understand their Dr. Crusher worship, she's a good charcter but not all that and a bag of chips
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-02-03 00:54:15 +0000 UTCI believe you are right as things noticily pick up in the 2nd half and into the 6th season
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-02-03 00:53:07 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, there are 2 "S-Tier" episodes coming up in Season 5. I count only about 5 or 6 in the entire series. There are also about 2 "A+ Tier" episodes. They ALMOST rank as "S," but I reserve "S" for the best of the best, in my opinion. No titles, folks, no titles for those upcoming episodes.
Tom Occhipinti
2025-02-03 00:45:00 +0000 UTCWhile it's not quite an S for me, Ethics is still an excellent episode. I prefer this episode's take on the subject of suicide much more than Half A Life. That kind of state sanctioned and run suicide program can go very wrong very fast, as we've started to see up here in Canada. This is very much Worf's personal decision and a range of reactions among the crew to it. A lot of people end up a lot worse off than Worf and still carry on. Christopher Reeve did and he inspired a ton of people doing so. At the same time I can understand that for someone like Worf that's just not something he can accept, so I get where Picard is coming from. Still I think it was a great choice to have Riker and Troi argue so passionately for Worf to choose life, and that scene where Riker refuses to help is definitely one of his best in the show. Crusher I'm more torn on. On the one hand I do believe that if a patient is fully informed of the risks and wants to volunteer for an experimental procedure, they should be allowed to. But then did the guy who died know what Dr. Russell was injecting him with? That struck me as a serious ethical breach and like others have said, should probably have cost her her medical license. Where I really disagree with Crusher is the idea that she's going to put Worf in a restraining field potentially for the rest of his life. That would be psychological torture for someone like Worf and was really crossing a line in my book. I think Picard did a great job in this episode walking the tight rope between the viewpoints of Crusher and those of Troi and Riker. Like many of the best Trek episodes, this one does inspire a lot of thought and discussion around it's central moral dilemma, and it does a great job hitting you in the feels at a few points. Combine all that with some excellent performances, and I give it an A+.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-02-03 00:15:20 +0000 UTCYou mentioned the lower quality of the last few episodes. My thought is several of the best writers moved over to DS9 in order to get that series off to a good start.
Mark Chrisco
2025-02-03 00:12:02 +0000 UTCAbout the barrel. They were checking for a chemical leak. That barrel was leaking the chemical, and it was deteriorating, hence the barrel weekend and fell on Worf. The barrel may have been plastic, but was iin it could have easily weighed 500lbs. More than enough to crush his spine.
Keith S
2025-02-03 00:07:21 +0000 UTCYeah, growing up I always thought Klingon was very Japanese in many aspects. Glad someone else sees it too.
PIG
2025-02-03 00:01:14 +0000 UTCScotty with the bagpipes moment: “Changed my mind, bring me the knife” Of course there were plenty of feels to go!
rear adm. crackbiscuit
2025-02-03 00:00:30 +0000 UTCI'm also surprised at the low number of S ratings. I've always loved this one. Very relevant to today in some ways. My own country is making moves to legalise assisted dying at the moment, and when listening to debates surrounding that I often thought of this episode. Not quite the same but it does make you think. Great reaction!
Elizabeth N
2025-02-02 23:59:48 +0000 UTCAww , man. Y'all didn't address the "what if the other doctor was Pulaski" Patron Take. This episode would've been the perfect opportunity to finally see her and Crusher play off each other.
Jeff Cornell
2025-02-02 23:57:34 +0000 UTCAnother great reaction! I'm in 100% agreement with the guys on this one. Always thought this was one of those classic TNG "ethical issues" episode that utilizes many characters really well.
Lovok
2025-02-02 23:50:42 +0000 UTCabsolutely. because it brings out another side of him. also his honor translates to parental care
penoyer79
2025-02-02 23:47:59 +0000 UTCSomething that I've really come to appreciate about Dworf is how much of his mother he has in him and how much Worf could still stand to learn from that. Worf really needs to have bs called on a lot of his Klingon stances which are often various forms of emotional bypassing. Pour one out for for K'Ehleyr who lives on in her son. She'd be proud.
Chris
2025-02-02 23:42:41 +0000 UTCYeah this would have been a relatively good exit. I can only think of one instance of a main character leaving/dying where the writers didn't seemingly write them out in a spiteful huff.
ShazD
2025-02-02 23:35:06 +0000 UTCShe really gives lesbian vibes and I love it.
ShazD
2025-02-02 23:31:18 +0000 UTCOh I agree, as confirmed from the title of the episode, but it was just half of the main point/plot. I'm just basically saying it is more of a lay person conversation. The second half of the main point I felt is the powerhouse of it all -- the real medical ethics question -- that is the right to choose when one can end their own life and whether or not anyone else, especially those outside of that patients culture, has the authority to negatively argue against it.
Ricky
2025-02-02 23:30:52 +0000 UTCWorf got a hold of that knife that Riker brought in from between his feet.
Jovet
2025-02-02 23:22:39 +0000 UTCBased mom for not spoiling it
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-02-02 23:22:29 +0000 UTCExactly. The barrel below deforming because it had a leak is a bit odd, though. With all those tricorders out they should have found that leak immediately.
Jovet
2025-02-02 23:21:35 +0000 UTCI think Russell's ethics in her practice is the main point of this episode. And she's wrong.
Jovet
2025-02-02 23:19:00 +0000 UTCI can see Worf still kicking ass in a wheelchair. Disemboweling his enemies!
Philbot
2025-02-02 23:18:41 +0000 UTCAs someone in healthcare, the ethical "dilemma" that everyone is hooked on isn't all that much of a dilemma -- at least in my experience. Patients refuse care all of the time whether or not it is based on ignorance/stubbornness or cultural practice/ideology. At work we have regular reminder lessons on patient rights and this is one of them. What I see as the real contribution of this episode is the conversation on the right to end ones life. Even the points about best medical practice when concerning experimental medicine is more periphery, for me at least. Ethical practice with experimental medicine I see as kind of an ethics 101 conversation, but is good to make sure there are reminder sign posts in place for it. In this particular episode, I just don't see that as a necessary philosophical debate. However, the malpractice of Dr. Russell is a great plot contribution. The type of medical care she provided for the patient in the shuttle bay should and would be reported on by Dr. Crusher and result in Dr. Russell losing her medical license. Everything Dr. Crusher said was absolutely correct. Dr. Russell may be a competent research scientist, but she is an incompetent doctor. AND Dr. Russell's procedure in-fact failed. The only reason Worf survived is because of his physiology. Worf's physiological resilience played no factor in Dr. Russell's experimental surgical procedure. In fact, Dr. Russell discredited the Klingon physiological redundancies.
Ricky
2025-02-02 23:15:38 +0000 UTCI remember as a 12 year old kid watching this and believing Worf died. My mom taped it for me because I couldn’t watch it at my dad’s on the weekend. So I came home Sunday night to watch and I asked her does Worf die? And she’s like yes! I was heartbroken. 💔 He was probably my favorite character at the time. Great episode! I don’t know how true this was but I heard the Doctor lady was supposed to be Pulaski guest starring? But it would have made her very unlikeable.. more unlikeable? 😆
Philbot
2025-02-02 23:09:38 +0000 UTCMaybe they could just ship him off to Talos IV instead, him and PIke can ride horses.
Alan Thompson
2025-02-02 23:06:59 +0000 UTCI agree that the execution could've been better, but I can overlook that. It's not the best looking scene, but it does the job for the story IMO
Justin B
2025-02-02 23:05:25 +0000 UTCI still say the guest doc looks like Hillary Clinton!
Narnman
2025-02-02 22:59:35 +0000 UTCi dont really get that complaint either but looking now the way it is filmed falling on Worf it appears to weighs about 30 lbs. it could do with a bit more Ooomf! on the volume
Narnman
2025-02-02 22:58:20 +0000 UTCCrusher was right.
Jovet
2025-02-02 22:55:27 +0000 UTCI have always hated this ep — I thought it was undermined by the certainty Worf would be fine by the end, and my reaction to the Klingon backup system was anger. But your positive reaction means I’ll rewatch it for sure. Don’t think it’ll be an S, but maybe I’ve been skipping a B for years. Good chat as always!
John M.
2025-02-02 22:44:32 +0000 UTCReally enjoy this episode, and I was sure you guys would as well. It's so nice to have just a character-focussed episode with no overly complicated plot to intrude on the central issues here. You've got great actors presenting different perspectives and bouncing off of each other in ways that totally make sense for their characters. So many great moments, and a guest character who is not instantly unlikeable or unrelatable. As a kid this episode kind of went over my head, but now as an adult it's one of my favourites; I actually even teared up near the end on this rewatch. This episode hits me in both the head and the heart, and that's a winner in my book.
Ryan Caulfield
2025-02-02 22:36:42 +0000 UTCWhy do most of us don't rate it S? Because most of us are Scifi fans who love Trek as a Scifi show first. Yes, we love the characters and character stories and development. But that's not the main reason why we watch it. Also I believe 90s TV was just overflown with hospital dramas we didn't care for but had to watch with our girlfriends/wives. Although the supertanker of this genre - "E.R." - started not until 94.
Sam Langanke
2025-02-02 22:35:16 +0000 UTCI don't understand the complaints about the barrel falling on Worf. If you get hit with a baseball or a punch to the face the wrong way, you're instantly dead. Why is it so hard to believe that a barrel that is presumably full of liquid and thus probably weighs about 500 pounds would shatter someone's spine? The only complaint I might have is how Worf turned so that it perfectly hit his back instead of diving out of the way. Either way, it's annoying when such a small, easily explained detail makes people rank it lower. Who cares?
Justin B
2025-02-02 22:33:55 +0000 UTCFor me this is definitely not one of those episodes that I never gave much thought, I always thought it was amazing.
Marko
2025-02-02 22:32:51 +0000 UTCI gave this an A based on memory and the overall feeling I have of the episode, though I haven't seen it in sometime. But watching it again here, it does have merit and a good argument for an S, even though S is reserved for a very special few for me.
Marko
2025-02-02 22:20:34 +0000 UTCKnowing Worf and how he is with honor, he wouldn't have done it if it hadn't been exactly as tradition requires it. I don't think there was any danger of Worf killing himself on his own.
Marko
2025-02-02 22:16:31 +0000 UTCWorf tried to sit up - and failed - so ... I would say, he was not able so sit up, he was just able to move his arms and his head and that's it. - Also else it would not be safe for Riker to lay down the Dagger Of Honor so close to "I-want-to-kill-myself-Worf".
Adam from Germany
2025-02-02 22:10:47 +0000 UTCI forgot how far they took they fake out
Mike Rogers
2025-02-02 22:06:48 +0000 UTCS tier episode with F tier inciting incident. I honestly don't know how I would rank this one even after multiple watches.
Kenneth Elder
2025-02-02 22:05:46 +0000 UTCNothing like a doctor that was just going to leave you to rot in the wheelchair being all high and mighty to the one that actually did something about it.
Alan Thompson
2025-02-02 21:57:05 +0000 UTCCan you imagine if Michael Dorn was leaving the show, and this was the episode to send him out? Heck, in retrospect, it's too bad Tasha couldn't have gotten something like this, but I think I understand why she didn't due to IRL circumstances and how early on it was in the show.
Forbidden Donut
2025-02-02 21:56:09 +0000 UTCUnfortunately she’d had to see Dr. Crusher when it was her birthday so she could give her some advice as a gift
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-02-02 21:40:41 +0000 UTCFor the The Next Generation, the writers gave the Klingons a culture similar to the older, traditional Japanese. Honor. More aggressive. The Hegh'bat is analogous to seppuku or harakari.
Collin Freeman
2025-02-02 21:39:17 +0000 UTCDid you say Worf is a good character to give a kid to? 😂🤣😂
The_Truth
2025-02-02 21:33:35 +0000 UTCIf only Dr Pulaski had told Dr Crusher about how you could just beam Worf back healthy using last weeks transporter record.
Alan Thompson
2025-02-02 21:27:21 +0000 UTC
