YOUTUBE - Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country | Movie Reaction
Added 2025-01-29 19:05:32 +0000 UTC
Comments
Those comments on YT make for entertaining reading. XD
James Knight
2025-01-31 13:07:00 +0000 UTCAs someone who grew up on TOS, loved it, and didn't care for the TNG era until looooong after it aired, I find it refreshing to hear a dissenting opinion on this movie and the series as a whole. As an old-head I do love the even numbered films the most but I think Alex and Josh have salient points for their critique of this film. I don't agree 100% but I am coming from a point of view where this came out when I was a freshman in high school. I didn't know or care about who wrote and directed the film, I was just stoked to get more time with the crew I grew up loving. They are missing a key ingredient for what made some of these films amazing to us at the time; Nostalgia. They have no nostalgia for the series because they didn't have to wait years in between releases. Alex and Josh have the curse (and blessing) of not having found Trek until recently but watching it in one continuous stream for the last chunk of years. This is a similar problem with almost all modern fandoms who have "bad" takes on typically beloved content. I think a lot of my fellow Trekkers in the comments who are taking umbrage with this deviation from the norm are being rather un-Vulcan about a dispassionate and objective critique.
James W.
2025-01-31 08:06:20 +0000 UTCWow. I can't believe you guys disliked it that much. I remember really liking it when it came out. I remember thinking it was very overrated later, but it's pretty good. However, I disliked Star Trek V so much that it would be difficult for me not to like this movie. There's a lot of interesting trivia about this movie. Leonard Nimoy came up with the idea for the movie after the Chernobyl disaster and the end of the Cold War as the Klingons were the 1960s stand-ins for Soviets during the television series; the idea caught Nicholas Meyer's interest, so he agreed to direct the movie. I remember seeing it with my brother and his wife who said, "Why was it that Dr. McCoy was the one who helped Spock perform surgery in the torpedo tube? Shouldn't that have been Scotty?" My brother quickly replies, "I don't know that Scotty could have fit in the torpedo tube." Christopher Plummer and William Shatner were Canadian friends and rivals for most of their lives. Shatner was Plummer's understudy for a play, a Shakespeare play I think. Anyway, Plummer couldn't show up one night, so Shatner had to replace him. However, when Shatner did the part he decided to act in the complete way that Plummer had been acting the part. When Plummer would stand up in the play, Shatner would sit down. When Plummer would sit down in the play, Shatner would stand up. A few years before he passed, Plummer admitted that he was jealous of all the fun Shatner was having or had in the Star Trek television series. Plummer was supposed to wear a dramatic Klingon wig, but he said that he liked his makeup much better without the wig. Gene Roddenberry very much disliked the movie, but Gene disliked a lot of Star Trek things where he wasn't in control. He did not like how Nicholas Meyer turned Kirk into a semi-racist-type person. Nichelle Nichols refused to utter the line "Guess who's coming to dinner?" as that is the title of a famous race-conflict movie, so the laugh line went to Chekov. Nicholas Meyer wanted Valeris' part to be played by Saavik, but Roddenberry insisted that that could NOT happen. Meyer got upset as he was the one who created the Saavik character, but they thought they might have to cast a third actress to play Saavik, so I guess he finally relented. Martia was played by Iman, a famous Somali model who married musician David Bowie. Nicholas Meyer offering money for any actor willing to eat the blue-dyed Klingon food. Only Shatner accepted the bet and challenge. The Red Forman actor Kurtwood Smith was a complete unknown actor at the time; funny how you spotted him immediately. Admiral Cartwright was from Star Trek IV, so I would not have expected any bad stuff to come from him. "...publicity materials for Star Trek VI indicated that Colonel Worf was intended to be the grandfather of his Next Generation namesake." The signatures at the end of the movie were supposed to be of the characters and NOT the signatures of the actors, but I think the actors vetoed this idea. I know that one Star Trek fan or historian has pointed out that in the first episode "The Man Trap" that Sulu and Janice Rand have a conversation about plants. He says enjoy that as they will not have another conversation together until Star Trek VI about 25 years later.
Chtphr Rrr
2025-01-31 01:57:01 +0000 UTCLoots Narsbaar. Awesome name. You must be from the St. Louis area, Japan, or perhaps California.
Chtphr Rrr
2025-01-31 01:14:00 +0000 UTCI honestly don't see where the racism is. It's not like anyone thinks badly of klingons because they are klingons, it's that literally 100% of all klingons they ever met have wanted to kill them, enslave the galaxy and ruin everything. On what basis would anyone like these people? He's not saying he wants to kill them, he's saying "let them die, not my problem?". Why would he care, really? He wants to mind his own business and let fate take its course.
Ken R
2025-01-30 23:22:37 +0000 UTCWell said! An angry jaded film. I’d add the adjective “tired”.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-30 20:11:53 +0000 UTCI didn’t like this movie and I’ve been a trek fan since 1966. My reaction is much the same as yours. I honestly don’t understand so many fans thinking this was the best. Characters felt slightly OOC, and I agree it just didn’t have what it needed to be a final send off. I was really disappointed by this. I liked 5 better because at least it felt like a dumb TOS episode that you appreciate even knowing it’s not the best. This didn’t even quite feel Trek to me. It’s “meh” at best.
Crankygrandma
2025-01-30 20:10:51 +0000 UTCI would like to do so but I’m not aware of how to set that up for recording purposes
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-30 19:26:01 +0000 UTCLmfaoooo yes 🙌
giuseppe scigliano
2025-01-30 19:04:26 +0000 UTCI actually said “I like this more than 5.” You somehow heard the opposite.
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-30 17:17:30 +0000 UTCOnce again, I believe the historical context and every intention by those involved with the film would say it has more to do with wartime enemies than the standard racism against random individuals of a group based on skin tone or color that we often see in our context. Now I agree that within that overall framework, Cartwright’s comment and the two assassins’ comments come off far more racist sounding, even if it’s under the framework of war. I just don’t see Kirk or the main crew that way. They have prejudice against lifelong war enemies, and as far as I remember they have never seen a different example set by any Klingon until the ambassador at the end of ST5. I think Kirk’s harshest words in his opening scene with Spock are just as much about Spock presuming and volunteering Kirk and crew to starfleet right before their retirement when Spock should know about Kirk’s hurt and deep, personal grief. I don’t think Kirk is being generous or logical at all in the scene, though Spock is. Normally it’s bones that is running on emotion, and Kirk is the balance between him and Spock. But to me it feels like Kirk is playing “Devil’s advocate” against Spock while also feeling presumed upon by his closest friend (even if he knows Spock has noble intentions), plus his wartime distrust and personal grief.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 17:12:03 +0000 UTCthe only thing bad about Star Trek 5 is the main plot. everything in between is great. once the studios started slashing the budget shatner should have just turned the movie into a hangout comedy of them in yosemite.
penoyer79
2025-01-30 16:53:00 +0000 UTCI’m flabbergasted at your reaction…. But boy do I appreciate your honesty …. U don’t just clap for your audience and then laugh behind their backs… with that being said .. Well to be honest the prison scenes always sorta bothered me and I seen this when it came out on vhs … I was 15 … Like the TA guys, I like the character moments , but not really everything else…. I don’t know if it sorta derailed the pace or I didn’t like the sets … or a mix of both .. but then that fight scene with the changling I sorta cringed at that … still do , and i still imagine what they could have done differently . BUT the movie and story are fantastic , the solving of the mystery . Now I should be honest I ruined part of the mystery for myself because I started playing the vhs in the middle of the f😭cking movie, I already knew she was part of it , so I don’t know how I would have reacted to that revelation… but Cartwright, come on … maybe I seen this when I was 15 and didn’t notice the “obvious” villains like Cartwright 🙄… him really, he’s was obvious … I think they should view this a second time and try to look past the prison scenes and just enjoy the character moments within it .
giuseppe scigliano
2025-01-30 16:32:08 +0000 UTCOf course it’s about subjective opinion vs objective truth, it I always is. But even then, there can often be a general consensus in things subjective. And the more general subjective consensus, the more something is considered universally agreed upon, except for outliers and people with specific subjective issues towards something, with some reasonings seeming more or less valid to others. We often tailor friendships and relationships on similarity to subjective preferences as much as objective truths, especially if those issues come up before that friendship or relationship takes hold. I think on this channel there are a select number of key films or episodes that have gone against mainstream consensus. That’s fine. It’s just often unexpected, though I hate to say now it’s becoming a little more predictable over time. But when it’s not expected, it can cause some confusion or head scratching. If someone tells me they don’t like, say Shawshank Redemption or Gladiator as much as others do, there could be subjective reasons for that, and that can be just as valid for them as opposed to someone else. But if they name specifics as to why they don’t prefer it that go beyond mainstream consensus, or use another movie in comparison that is generally considered subjectively inferior by consensus, that can often call their subjective tastes into account. It still is their total right to do so, but that may call into question their subjective tastes or comparison abilities by others, or even a whole community. It’s always a matter of subjectivity. But that doesn’t mean we can’t evaluate someone’s analytical or comparative standards for subjectivity, rate it based on their particular experience and knowledge, and see how it stacks up to general consensus or even their own consistency. At the end of the day, they are totally free to share their viewpoints. Heck, it’s their channel. But we tend to go where subjective tastes generally align (work, friendships, romantic relationships, hobbies, etc), and it can be disappointing to see those expectations diminished, sometimes even shattered. So be it.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 16:31:03 +0000 UTCI’ve asked them about the two TOS games - both the 25th Anniversary and its sequel “Judgement Rites,” a few times now, but no such luck yet, despite both games featuring the full original series voice cast. They could also just react to a “Let’s Play” of either game on YouTube, if they don’t want to bother playing the games directly; at least that way, they’d still experience the story and vocal performances. As the games are separated into shorter “episodes,” they could also break up the reaction into smaller eps over time.
Matt Everkoul
2025-01-30 16:30:27 +0000 UTCYou can make up all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day our heroes are portrayed as racists assholes (even worse in the home video version).
Column Meanie
2025-01-30 16:25:24 +0000 UTCYup. I came into the comments to say that.
John
2025-01-30 16:13:35 +0000 UTCI think it’s been pointed out here with the historical comparison that it was less about racism and more about wartime enemies coming to grips, in addition to Kirk needing to overcome emotional hurt for the loss of his son to this wartime enemy. Now Admiral Cartwright brings up the line about alien trash in the movie, which even he wasn’t a fan of, but Cartwright’s other dialogue indicates this is a war and military issue as well, not racism. And Chekov’s line “Guess who’s coming to dinner” has more to do with the dinner scene itself than the racial connections to the movie it comes from. The two assassins have a racist sounding line about Klingons smelling and barely able to talk, but the Klingons have said worse about humans in TNG. They are portraying an ignorance about the Klingons perhaps, but I think that’s a far cry from Kirk and bridge crew.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 16:00:43 +0000 UTCJosh said he prefers Star Trek 5. Now I do love the big three’s scenes in ST5, and I’ve softened to it over the years, but just let that sink in… [Edit: Josh said he likes ST6 more than 5. But… does he like Chancellor Gorkon in 6 or the Terran Ambassador in 5 more?]
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 15:51:55 +0000 UTCWhat about the 25th Anniversary Enhanced CD-ROM video game for personal computers? It is available on both Steam and GOG. Has there been any thought put towards interactive media on the channel, or are you planning to just stick to TV and Film for now?
Kristopher
2025-01-30 15:29:58 +0000 UTCMy heroes aren’t racist.
Column Meanie
2025-01-30 13:30:57 +0000 UTCIt's worth noting on the topic of Valeris being the sort an obvious villain because she was just introduced that the character was originally supposed to be Saavik returning, which would have been very surprising for fans, but in the end I believe it was decided that they didn't want ruin her character in that way.
Shane Coombs
2025-01-30 04:32:31 +0000 UTCIt's too bad you guys didn't care for this one. (Maybe rewatch the other cut in a few years time to see if you change your mind)? In fairness I'm a TNG DS9 guy. I've only seen bits and pieces of TOS, (though I really enjoy the TOS movies) so I'm not as invested in the crew getting a perfect goodbye. Ah, well. This was the last Star Trek movie made that I think was genuinely great. A-tier for me.
Loot Narsbaar
2025-01-30 03:27:55 +0000 UTCWe are never trolling about our opinions. If you want to “move on” because our opinion is different than yours then you’re correct that this probably isn’t the channel for you.
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-30 03:09:46 +0000 UTCI am totally right, but so are they, because you can't be 'wrong" about subjective opinion. "Really good" is, of course, subjective. And part of why there might be consensus about it being good is that, I think still, a majority of Trek fans are old enough to have the cold war on their minds when they first saw it. But then again maybe consensus is nothing to do with the cold war. I'm guessing. But I don't think its simply "its really good" and they just don't get it, because its not objectively anything. Entertainment is entirely subjective.
D Gyre
2025-01-30 02:58:17 +0000 UTCHeroes have flaws and prejudices. That doesn't make them less of a hero.
Kevin Is Sexy
2025-01-30 02:33:30 +0000 UTCAbsolutely my favorite, and a great sendoff in my opinion. You guys and I just have different tastes.
Kevin Is Sexy
2025-01-30 02:32:17 +0000 UTCI know it is because you are trying to stay consistent about viewing in release order, but I have thought since it was first said in a comment a while back that you'd view the theatrical cut that you'd wind up liking it potentially even much less than if you viewed the director's cut. With a lot of films you can sort of see why they cut what they do for a theatrical release, but in the case of STVI I find some of the choices pretty unfathomable. There are some scenes cut which almost fundamentally change the way the film is perceived and which cause the whole thing to make much less sense for having been cut, almost as if in Empire Strikes Back they'd cut the part where Obi-Wan tells Luke to find Yoda.
Shane Coombs
2025-01-30 02:12:43 +0000 UTCOr… it could be that you’re totally right and it is really good, and there is a general consensus out there in the world that agrees with you, most likely including the Patreon community here as well.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 02:07:43 +0000 UTCI really don't think it is quite right to say that the characters have a racist turn in STVI. For one thing and perhaps most importantly, the explicit intention of the filmmakers in creating this story was for it to echo or tell the story of the fall of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the USSR and how the western democracies and the Soviets were able to put their intense longstanding animosity and hostilities and distrust behind them to become allies (at least of sorts). The Klingons, then, are explicitly not supposed to represent another race, but another ideology and political power. Second to this, I think we have to remember that like the guys said in the video pretty much every other interaction they have ever had with Klingons has been the Klingons trying to kill them and frankly to do so very brutally, and of course doing it especially to Kirk's own son. It's easy for us to look at this sort of like we might look at the interactions between two ethnic groups here in 20th century earth, but in-universe the relationship the Federation had with the Klingons up to this point was really a lot closer to the relationship the humans have to the aliens in Independence day: they've just been an unmitigated, apparently irredeemable existential threat.
Shane Coombs
2025-01-30 02:07:16 +0000 UTCTotally agreed. I am very surprised by this reaction, but I shouldn’t have been after their Khan reaction. These guys have every right to their own reactions and opinions, but they will find themselves on the wrong side of general consensus and the patron community. Then again, their fascination with professional wrestling, (which I used to watch and totally love as well), makes me wonder when they are actually trolling or not. I love this channel, but I’m starting to wonder if I don’t just prefer YouTubers who enjoy, verses ones willing to destroy. It’s a free country, and I don’t have to stay. But after this one, I am really scratching my head and wondering if it’s time to move on.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 02:05:55 +0000 UTCI think those both films 2 and 6 have aged very well both for entertainment and quality. I rarely hear anyone complaining about either issue on those two films, say compared to 5, and even 3. I agree that there seems to be some lapse between Kirk’s attitude towards Klingons at the end of 5 compared to the beginning of 6. I believe that some of it is the responsibility of the writers to make a more dramatic arc for Kirk, and include some of that to a few other characters, but no as much as Kirk’s level for our beloved crew. I do think that Kirk is in a different place at the end of 5 and 6, having been rescued by the Klingons and apologized to, verses the thought of tearing down all the walls at the start of 6. Kirk’s main issue is the loss of his son (possibly his ship as well), and that kind of wound may have been festering because it hadn’t been dealt with, and the Klingons and humans weren’t at a place to do so yet at the start of 6. There is a distinction between hate from racism and from being wartime enemies for so many decades (even a century). Besides, the big earthly connection here in 6 is the Cold War with the USSR and Chernobyl and the Berlin Wall, etc, which was less about racism as we know it in the civil rights movement and more about generational enemies who are still at war and trying to overcome it. Just my take. I do think Kirk comes off pretty harsh in the first scene of his, plus leading up to the dinner with Gorkon and company, but that’s the span of a couple of days? Kirk’s change actually happens pretty quick once he finally meets a Klingon in power who believes in change and is willing to sacrifice his life for it, and he does find some healing concerning his son.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-30 02:02:05 +0000 UTCRewatching these movies through your eyes has really made me reexamine what’s always been considered “the best” of the TOS films. While I enjoy 2 and 6, neither film has aged well. 2 looks like it was made by a television crew and the racist turn of our characters in 6 is just too beneath our heroes. 6 in particular feels like an angry, jaded film and is not the way TOS should have ended.
Column Meanie
2025-01-30 00:59:57 +0000 UTCToo bad you guys didn't like this movie. For me It's probably my favorite of the TOS films. Ranking them it's 6 2 4 3 5 1. I guess this falls into the same trap that Red October did; both are "political thriller" kinds of stories that are slow building the mystery/tension until it leads to a big battle at the end. But if you aren't interested in the intrigue or feel like you're already ahead of the plot, you lose interest before the payoff. IMO, it is a great finish to these characters going off on one more mission that shows how the Federation and the Klingons finally made peace. The more obvious reveals don't take away my enjoyment of seeing these characters in action.
Andrew Buel
2025-01-29 22:54:20 +0000 UTCBe wary my friend, you may not like what you find here…
Bagofsoup
2025-01-29 21:53:42 +0000 UTCStar Trek 6 is probably my favorite TOS movie. I enjoy them all in each of their ways, even 5, and prefer 2-4-6 pretty closely as my favorites, but this movie has it all for me. If John and Alex disagree, well, I’ve seen this one dozens and dozens of times over a 30 year period (plus the rest of Star Trek), and they’ve only seen it once. Let Patreon decide…
Bagofsoup
2025-01-29 21:51:49 +0000 UTClol
Joe Green
2025-01-29 21:51:19 +0000 UTCThis is tied with IV as my second favorite after Khan. Good guest performances, great lines from our main characters, and a good plot. Surprised you guys didn't like it more. Maybe it hits differently as an end of the cold war allegory when you grew up in the cold war? So I'm coming at it with completely different context?
D Gyre
2025-01-29 21:22:48 +0000 UTCBetter than a happy birthday party with pain sticks!
Bagofsoup
2025-01-29 21:10:04 +0000 UTCDo you know why Col. Worf took the thankless job as a Kinglon defending the human traitors (spoiler alert) who were accused? He did it just to pay the bills, for the sake of his son. Mogh money, mogh money, mogh money!
Bagofsoup
2025-01-29 21:08:32 +0000 UTC“I don’t even know his anatomy! But he is Klingon so I’m sure healing him must involve kneeling on his chest and punching.” - Leonard “Bones” McCoy
Kurt Linke
2025-01-29 20:52:44 +0000 UTCI didn't mean it was TNG Worf in both roles. I meant Mogh's father was named Worf and then Mogh named his son Worf. The actor just happen to play both roles.
Dru Blood
2025-01-29 20:33:53 +0000 UTCHow could it be Worf then Mogh then Worf? This is what's known as The Grandfather Paradox. It's just a bit of quick sloppy writing to get Michael Dorn in and I'm fine with it all, I enjoyed seeing him there.
Paul Hess
2025-01-29 20:31:32 +0000 UTCHappy Birthday
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-29 20:29:18 +0000 UTCToday is my birthday and I will be celebrating by watching this when my daughter is done with school for the day - she's homeschooled.
psu01414
2025-01-29 20:23:29 +0000 UTCI'm partial to this movie more than the rest as I grew up with this one along with TNG and the other shows. As far as Worf's family line goes, Worf was named from his grandfather and it's damn cool that Michal Dorn played his grand father and himself.
Dru Blood
2025-01-29 20:14:21 +0000 UTCI like this one. A much better finale than the series got for sure.
Silk
2025-01-29 19:53:10 +0000 UTCWe are going to watch it between season 5 & 6 of TNG
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-29 19:52:48 +0000 UTCThat's corrrect, Mogh's father
The_Truth
2025-01-29 19:51:22 +0000 UTCJust an FYI ~ Iman (listed in the credits with Michael Dorn) is a former supermodel and the wife of David Bowie
The_Truth
2025-01-29 19:46:10 +0000 UTCActually, Nicholas Meyer did write Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. He started by pulling all of the elements from the previous rejected scripts that any of the producers liked and compiling it into 1 cohesive story. He did it for free without credit due to the time crunch in going before the cameras, and the time and politics it would have taken to get him a writing credit.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-29 19:42:25 +0000 UTCYoutube is such a great Safe Space I'm sure it will all be pretty tame
Paul Hess
2025-01-29 19:33:11 +0000 UTC"Cry HAVOK! And let slip the DOGS OF WAR." The war being the comment section.
Nolan
2025-01-29 19:26:35 +0000 UTCAll hands, brace for impact!
EnigmaticPenguin
2025-01-29 19:21:48 +0000 UTCYay, excited to watch the edit. Are you guys still planning on reacting to the 25th Anniversary television special? If so, do you know when it might post?
Matt Everkoul
2025-01-29 19:14:29 +0000 UTCI believe, canonically, that Col Worf is TNGs grandfather.
Scott Wells
2025-01-29 19:10:12 +0000 UTC
