PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E16
Added 2025-01-21 00:19:45 +0000 UTCWhat tier do you rate Star Trek TNG S5E16?
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Comments
Considering how many tears this rewatch brought on, I retract my review and raise my score. Haven’t seen it in at least 15 years.
rear adm. crackbiscuit
2025-02-03 00:20:43 +0000 UTCGreat Worf episode, dealing with a subjunctive
ByRikersBeard
2025-01-23 18:46:58 +0000 UTCThere's definitely some cheese involved with the whole coming back to life stuff. But Crusher stepping up and the Riker/Worf bits are both really good. Alexander and Troi are solid as well. The short scene with Riker and Picard during the operation was appreciated. I kept flipping between a low 'A' or a high 'B' but eventually went with the former.
Boggle
2025-01-23 16:02:37 +0000 UTCProbably the best thing to come out of having Alexander on the ship.
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2025-01-23 04:05:59 +0000 UTCI really love the Riker and Worf moments here. First off, it really displays their solid friendship. But I really love how you could argue that Riker is wrong by insulting the Klingon culture, but it's more real this way. He just decides, "Screw it, I'm calling this out for what I think it is." I suppose in your personal life, you don't have to follow the respect-all-cultures rule that you would professionally. But it also makes me think, what does Riker think of the Prime Directive? I think as a captain he would have more problems with it than Picard ever does.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:40:04 +0000 UTCIt is interesting how Picard really stands out among the crew as he is the only one saying, "So what? Klingons gotta be Klingons." But then again, as Riker points out, Worf was breaking the rules by not trying to get Alexander to do it. Which suggests he is already letting his more human values trump the Klingon culture.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-23 03:33:26 +0000 UTCWorf has defeated many foes including the Duros family, and has many yet to come, but here he meets his greatest enemy of all, the barrel! Maybe the greatest villain in the entire franchise.
FreshBread
2025-01-22 09:50:21 +0000 UTCHillary Clinton arrives and causes havoc
Narnman
2025-01-22 05:03:23 +0000 UTCTNG does it best when the problem has no right or wrong answer, in this case, Worf's initial wish for ritual suicide considering the circumstances. It's perfectly acceptable in his culture - so in truth in a way it's incorrect for others to speak against that, especially by Federation Charter. Yet he was also raised on earth and is a federation citizen and serves aboard a Starfleet Vessels, so the lines of which culture has sway in his decision are blurred. Worf is a man of two worlds and as time goes by he needs to learn where he walks in those worlds. Riker, i could believe Rikers arguments but I also felt he should not have made them whilst wearing his uniform, he was leadign with his own thoughts and feelings rather than the Federations, and as a commander he needs to also walk the line of respecting culture. Overall a great episode A.
Ben Smith
2025-01-22 02:29:06 +0000 UTCI was thinking the same thing. Her general personality seems similar enough. I wonder if she may have originally been meant to be Pulaski but they changed their minds.
Jeff Cornell
2025-01-22 01:05:18 +0000 UTCWriting and directing really drag this one down out of the A-B range for me. The subject matter is clearly one that resonates with people, and the actors have the chops to pull off some emotional scenes, but nothing comes together for a moving story.
Pokeysaurus
2025-01-22 00:18:17 +0000 UTCWorf is a stoic person anyway? So you wouldn't necessarily see much impact of the "trauma".
ShazD
2025-01-21 23:16:15 +0000 UTCYeah I wouldn't say her character is unrealistic (although there should have been consequences for her not using a an approved method that would work on the one patient she killed). But I just think they could have made it less extreme and actually made her character/ story better.
Greg Quinn
2025-01-21 23:05:13 +0000 UTCAnother episode where extreme trauma to a character has zero repercussions or consequences. I don't care about this episode because the writers don't care about this episode.
Kyle Stewart
2025-01-21 22:38:39 +0000 UTCThis isn't one of my favorite episodes from season 5 but it is a solid, well written story and goes into areas we really haven't seen before with TNG. It's definitely memorable for that aspect.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-21 21:02:55 +0000 UTCNah—too preachy comes later.
Jovet
2025-01-21 20:55:16 +0000 UTC@Mr Moxie I think you win the comments!
Jovet
2025-01-21 20:54:56 +0000 UTCIt's the "gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette" mentality. It's still valid for some people today.
Jovet
2025-01-21 20:52:06 +0000 UTCBecause they have to have things that can break!
Jovet
2025-01-21 20:49:37 +0000 UTCThis episode may be many viewers' first glimpse into the matters of medical ethics.
Jovet
2025-01-21 20:48:44 +0000 UTCI love Riker's "Eff you and the horse you rode in on" speech to Worf. Unfortunately maybe it's the only really good part of this episode. The Deus Ex Machina at the end is particularly, particularly bad for its incredibly stupid take on anatomy.
Ian Westcott
2025-01-21 19:36:57 +0000 UTCI think Worf is entirely secondary to Crusher's objections. She is truly offended by the malpractice of the doctor and that entirely tracks with Beverly who is probably the most moralising character in the show. She is also the first one who spoke out about doing you know what to the you know who in a later highly regarded ep in the season.
ShazD
2025-01-21 16:57:03 +0000 UTCThis is another "Starfleet demonstrates its hypocrisy" episode, by imposing Earth human morality on Worf, but they needed to keep him alive anyway, since heaven forbid any crew die or evolve on Star Trek. (EDIT: I'm not saying Worf SHOULD die. Just that we go in knowing, not just hoping but KNOWING, that he'll come out of it absolutely the same as he went in.) That said, the episode is pretty good, and the special effectl shots of what a Klingon spine looks like are pretty cool. It's a B-lister for me. Just shy of A-level.
John
2025-01-21 16:50:18 +0000 UTCReally been a while since Crusher got an episode and fortunately it's a pretty good one. I like to imagine what this would have been like if the other doctor was actually Pulaski
Deep Red
2025-01-21 16:40:48 +0000 UTCThis could have just been a crappy “teach Worf his honor isn’t really important” morality play. Instead, it was a complex and nuanced view of a couple very big ethical issues. This isn’t an S for me because it isn’t on my go-to short list, but definitely worthy of an A.
John Pierce
2025-01-21 15:28:51 +0000 UTCWorf's greatest enemy: Donkey, Son of Kong.
Mr Moxie
2025-01-21 15:25:33 +0000 UTCIf B is banger aka still really good TV, then this qualifies. Solid discussion of morality, good overall episode, but the Riker suicide debate is the most interesting part, once we are past that and Worf commits to the surgery I do struggle to get too invested because even on first viewing you kinda know he's going to be fine. Not really a shortcoming of the story but of the limitations of serialized tv. Though it does really help TNG that they killed Tasha out of nowhere, because it adds some sense of risk of death (however unlikely) to scenes like this.
Mr Moxie
2025-01-21 15:23:12 +0000 UTCI hated Dr. Tobby Russel as a kid watching this episode for the first time and I hate her even more as an adult. Overall I like this episode it deals with issues most people don't want to think about. And, I understand you can't kill off Worf, it's not a season-ender. But to bring him back with a redundant brain because he's a Klingon is a bit much.
Gregory Foster
2025-01-21 15:01:45 +0000 UTCHow come nothing is secure in this bloddy ship?
Dan Here
2025-01-21 14:40:02 +0000 UTCCorrection: This one is a real barrel falling on your back
JHVJ
2025-01-21 14:27:50 +0000 UTCThis one is a real gut punch
Prof Moff
2025-01-21 12:51:36 +0000 UTCI am disappointed they didn’t use Pulaski instead of Ellen’s mom, a little twerk of the script and BAM! But it’s kind of a B
Sixto
2025-01-21 12:06:44 +0000 UTCI loved this one, but Worf was always my favorite character so I tend to like the Worf centered episodes most.
Max Yoder
2025-01-21 10:57:52 +0000 UTCThere are some great performances in this one that push it to a B, but it's nearly a C for me because of the story. Dr Whatshername is completely unethical to the point of comedy. If the story between her and Crusher had been more about two people exploring nuances of a narrow ethical line instead of out right bickering over a chasm of differing opinion I think this could have been an A or even S.
Gruzz
2025-01-21 10:44:52 +0000 UTCa Klingon greatest weakness a empty plastic barrel, i get that cant actually hurt the actor but surely they could have made something that looked heavy fall on him, also why dont starfleet secure their barrels on the top shelf?
Dark Kronis
2025-01-21 09:41:57 +0000 UTCThis Episode - Worf getting beat by a barrel. Worst security chief ever! And who in Starfleet is responsible for OSHA measures? Probably another one of them crocked admirals. Despite all that, an interesting story about the right to choose ones own fate and A Tier performance for me.
Loki San
2025-01-21 09:41:20 +0000 UTCI don't really buy into Crusher's moral grandstanding during the episode. The show tries so hard to portray her as being in the right during this situation. Both Crusher and the audience know what kind of character Worf is at this point. They know that Worf will never accept the kind of life that comes from being paralyzed. Her being so against him doing the experimental treatment always came off as ridiculous to me. The other doctor being "evil" doesn't change the fact that the surgery is Worf's only real option. I'm also glad they've brought back the Worf/Riker relationship. It felt like it was forgotten for awhile. I like that Riker is the first person Worf goes to and Riker's response is even better.
Spencer Loften
2025-01-21 09:37:32 +0000 UTCInteresting story on the emotions people might feel around assisted suicide/right to die by suicide and those it affects family, friends, colleagues. New fear unlocked 🔓: falling barrels 😂 B for me this one
LonghillAndy
2025-01-21 08:41:17 +0000 UTCPretty good episode. I think they went overboard in having the experimental doctor basically kill a patient in order to try her method. It basically just made her clearly evil...I guess the writer wanted to make sure you saw Dr Crusher as the good one. But maintaining more ambiguity would have been better. Also it's sad that we now have to add "barrel" to the list of opponents who have defeated Worf. Finally many have seen star trek as a communist or socialist utopian dream but here it looks like a libertarian utopia since they clearly have no work place safety regulations for how they stack barrels. Still pretty good episode. "A"... would be a S if not for making new doctor evil.
Greg Quinn
2025-01-21 08:15:51 +0000 UTCI second that. Couldn't have said it any better.
ComMix
2025-01-21 08:02:02 +0000 UTCB for Barrel Without Honor. Who would've thought the Enterprise would have had lax procedures on storage of heavy/dangerous items at height... Lots to dig into with this one, particularly suicide and right to die. Great ep.
The Ninth Doctor
2025-01-21 06:38:15 +0000 UTCKinda like Vulcans and their eyelids...
Jason Lallathin
2025-01-21 06:02:16 +0000 UTCAll i remembered from this episode, was how funny it looked how the barrel hit Worf, and how unconvinced I was that this would have done any real damage. However, past that, there is actually a real good episode. Deep, emotional, a guest character to hate, some firespitting from Riker and especially Dr Crusher, and a genuine ethical dilemma. The fakeout death I'm not a huge fan of how it's done, but it's set up with "Klingon redundancies", so it's fine I guess. Overall, I'm surprised by how much I liked it on rewatch, A+.
JHVJ
2025-01-21 05:16:31 +0000 UTCDespite being a heavy Worf focused episode, it also manages to cram some decent material for Dr. Crusher in after not using her a whole lot this season. A darn good charscter piece that uses Sci-fi to explore possibilities instead of problems. A.
Nolan
2025-01-21 04:43:34 +0000 UTCWould love to have seen Pulaski comeback, but ONLY if they make both her and Crusher look like the heroes here.
Column Meanie
2025-01-21 04:38:11 +0000 UTCI’ll forever remember this one for the Worf death fake out. Seeing Beverly in tears breaking the news to Alexander is so well done. One line that will forever stick with me: “enjoy your laurels doctor, I’m not sure that I could.” Writing this take on 1/20/25, it rings especially true. B for “Barrel, Worf!”
Column Meanie
2025-01-21 04:27:16 +0000 UTCAn amazing episode where everyone's actions make sense for their character. It's something relevant still today, and is also something that helps inform Worf's character as a friend and father. And how is presence or absence would affect them.
Kekkersboy
2025-01-21 04:14:41 +0000 UTCAlright I know Worf's whole thing is that anyone can kick his ass, but a barrel is just ridiculous. That's going too far. Alex did say in the Half A Life discussion that it would hit harder if it were about Worf, so here you go. I think this episode better handles the subject of suicide, given it's not being forced on anyone, and it's understandable that Worf wouldn't want to live being paralyzed. At the same time the episode doesn't just pass it off as an alien custom we have no right to judge, but makes a compelling argument for choosing life through Riker and Troi.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-01-21 03:34:35 +0000 UTCWho says Star Trek only “became” woke with new Trek? Here is a story about bodily autonomy, the right to die, the dignity of people with disabilities, and no easy answers.
Aramis Calcutt
2025-01-21 03:18:12 +0000 UTCMight need some tweaking to make it work
tyranusfan
2025-01-21 03:08:30 +0000 UTCPoor Worf. He survived the Klingon civil war only to be downed by a huge container. And good on Riker for researching the Klingon suicide ritual before making his decision about helping. Turn the Klingon tradition back on him. The visiting doctor is not a very likeable character. Her gamble works in the end, but Dr. Crusher's parting words must have hurt a bit. And now we know what Klingon feet look like! I'd give this one a B, not necessarily a Banger, but better than a C Filler.
Rogerbear60
2025-01-21 02:45:14 +0000 UTCTHAT BARREL HAS NO HONOR!!
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2025-01-21 02:44:38 +0000 UTCPersonally, I think this episode is a little too preachy. It’s boring. It’s too centered around Dorf. 44
Thicketdweller
2025-01-21 02:37:42 +0000 UTCI barely remember this one. Still gets a D for Dorf.
bab
2025-01-21 02:30:23 +0000 UTCI’m so split on this episode. Some good character scenes, but heavy handed. And just like Spock in original Trek, Worf survives because of an unexpected species adaptation. I rate it a B
Jeffrey
2025-01-21 02:18:53 +0000 UTCWhy are there little CRT monitors in the room worf is in sickbay?
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-01-21 02:16:24 +0000 UTCThe classic "main cast member gets near fatal injury and may never see/walk/hear/have sex" again (pick your injury). Euthanasia and the right to die creates the moral dilemma. Research vs "first: do no harm" tackles the ethical conflict. This is mostly a C episode, but it's punctuated by some great little scenes, like Picard in Beverly's office arguing on behalf of Worf's beliefs and Beverly's parting words to Dr. Russell.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-21 02:13:04 +0000 UTCInteresting idea, but I don't think Pulaski would be that cold.
Keith S
2025-01-21 02:01:44 +0000 UTCI don’t love every aspect of this one, but I think there’s some great exploration of Worf’s relationships with others this episode.
ScarlettMi
2025-01-21 01:58:57 +0000 UTCThis aired when the public was constantly hearing about Jack Kavorkian (Dr. Death) and his push for doctor assisted end of life choices. Some of the script is a bit heavy-handed but, honestly, so were some of the discussions of Kavorkian that I overheard between older family members/relatives. It's an episode that was of the time. I don't skip it when doing a series rewatch, but I wouldn't go out of my way to see it again.
Mushroom-Bagel-Bites
2025-01-21 01:58:43 +0000 UTCIf those bone ridges go down his back as with his head. Wouldn't you see that through his shirt. Still, it was a good episode with all the conflicts every one was dealing with. I give it an A for this.
Keith S
2025-01-21 01:57:26 +0000 UTCDid they get ya?
Eric Wilson
2025-01-21 01:55:59 +0000 UTCQuestion: Would this have been better with Pulaski? (either as Enterprise doctor OR the visiting doc butting heads with Crusher)
tyranusfan
2025-01-21 01:27:56 +0000 UTCSomeone order some filler? Some nice moments, still filler.
rear adm. crackbiscuit
2025-01-21 01:27:31 +0000 UTCE. Hate the ending.
John M.
2025-01-21 01:12:51 +0000 UTCI really like this one for Worf, Crusher, Riker, Troi, and Alexander. Gruesome concept of a total spinal replacement (!) that was a little hard to watch. Can you imagine if they had the stones to either kill Worf off or leave him permanently disabled? I don't know if that would have been wise, but it's at least an interesting 'what if?'
Forbidden Donut
2025-01-21 01:08:46 +0000 UTCLot’s of ethical questions floating around in this episode. A-list performances from our favorite characters, not just Crusher and Worf, but all around. We find out who Worf’s greatest nemesis is in this episode… a plastic barrel. The Beating up Worf Trope at its weakest and most famous. Despite that, this episode is an A- for me.
Nathan Walker
2025-01-21 01:00:26 +0000 UTCThis episode is just above average for me. It is very clear from the start that this dilemma will be solved by the end of the episode, but the individual scenes save it from being a C tier episode.
Robert Kozelou
2025-01-21 00:59:54 +0000 UTCThe barrel has no honour
Skullman8942
2025-01-21 00:54:12 +0000 UTCThis one is great - big stakes for a big character! Very little distraction from other smaller plots and a massive focus on the main point of the episode
Worf and Riker Ride Again
2025-01-21 00:47:49 +0000 UTCApparently, space OSHA hasn’t been to the enterprise in sometime. There are a lot of things in this episode. I would move from canon, but it’s still a really good compelling episode. A
Phil Ken Sebben
2025-01-21 00:42:29 +0000 UTCHard question time: if Worf came to you and asked for help in this situation, as his friend, would you? Would your decision be based on morality, friendship, or respect for your friend's culture?
Ross Townsend
2025-01-21 00:39:34 +0000 UTCE tier, one I skip, not even Dr. Crusher can save it.
Paul Rymer
2025-01-21 00:38:30 +0000 UTCOne of the best Crusher AND Worf Episodes, it uses everyone who needs to be part of the episode well, even Alexander. It is one of the best Crusher episodes, in her medical field as well as looking at a very touchy ethical idea.
Thomas Cole
2025-01-21 00:32:03 +0000 UTCAh, the Klingon’s greatest weakness, plastic barrels.
Evan Guthrie
2025-01-21 00:31:40 +0000 UTCWorf has another dilemma. For me it's just a little bit too heavy-handed with conflicting views of medical ethics and euthanasia, but to each their own. Naturally, it all works out in the end. There are good performances and it's fun seeing Riker yell at Worf, but it's another “Time Filler With Good Moments” episode for me.
KatWithAttitude
2025-01-21 00:28:36 +0000 UTC
