UNCUT - Hero Worship (TNG S5E11) | Star Trek Journey 218
Added 2025-01-19 15:02:51 +0000 UTCUNCUTs on YouTube will return with episode 13
Comments
I enjoyed this WAY more on rewatch with you guys than I have previously. The direction really jumps out. The kid is actually "good" (not great) and it's just a good human story with a B-plot that ties in well and makes sense (plus technobabble)
Darin Starr
2025-01-25 17:45:33 +0000 UTCAgreed. There are emotions other than trauma.
Steven Linden
2025-01-23 20:24:39 +0000 UTCI agree that Geordi's scene was nice to see. But I also have to say, I also like Geordi as a dorky science nerd. Not saying it's because I find that relatable but... I find that relatable.
Steven Linden
2025-01-23 20:15:40 +0000 UTCInteresting take..
Badger
2025-01-23 19:21:40 +0000 UTCI agree. Comments like those are very insensitive. That is not something to joke about especially if you’ve been a victim of it.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-23 17:43:19 +0000 UTCIt’s interesting that Timothy said the aliens were wearing helmets and they were discussing the Breen. 🤔
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-23 17:10:45 +0000 UTCI worked there almost three years starting when I was 21. The only good thing that came from that is that I met my wife there (she was a co-worker). We’ve been married 31 years now.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-23 17:07:44 +0000 UTCI’m only re-watching this episode for your reaction. D for me.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-23 16:57:16 +0000 UTCWell, a C isn't THAT high.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-22 13:33:51 +0000 UTC@Nolan To me, Timothy's willingness to only step out of his chosen persona with Data makes Troi's professional redaction even worse. Maybe he just needed the "ON THE STARSHIP ENTERPRISE, NO ONE IS ALONE!" speech.
Jovet
2025-01-22 07:12:28 +0000 UTCYeah I'm convincd that if they can give this such high Marks and hate an episode like Darmok, they are gonna like NUtrek
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-22 01:12:33 +0000 UTCYeah after a rewatch i still think this is a snoozer of an episode, the kid was better than i remember, i just didnt care
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-22 01:09:13 +0000 UTCtoo much of current trek and tv for that matter is all trauma
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-22 00:47:36 +0000 UTCsurprised they liked this considering the kids wearing Wesley's sweater
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-22 00:46:39 +0000 UTC1:00:58 there are stories that make you feel things and are scientific and yet do not involve trauma. Stories that invoke the sense of wonder and awestruck at the universe and the adventure in exploration of the frontier…thats peak star trek for many of us.
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 20:43:25 +0000 UTC@44:53 jesus guys wtf…not this again🤦♂️. Americans have become so weirdly obsessed with pedo paranoia and just generally seem to work it into culture and conversations like 10x more than 15 years ago.
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 20:01:07 +0000 UTCI dunno. When my Dad was dying I basically spent all my available waking hours playing The Elder Scrolls 4... I needed the escspe into a world where I got to control things, where my decisions mattered and had some impact. Because I was totally lacking that in real life. I NEEDED the break from facing reality at times. It helped me cope with the loss I was experiencing. So I don't begrudge the idea of Troi thinking that allowing this kid to fantasize as a form of escapism, to put distance between his feelings so he could actually THINK about them instead of just being overwhelmed feeling them, makes sense. The fact he was still asking questions about his feelings versus Data's experiences indicate to me that despite his escapist fantasy, he was still feeling things. Just not irrationally expressing them. I'm sure the minute Deanna sensed his emotional state was deadening, she'd end the support for his fantasy and adjust her apporach.
Nolan
2025-01-21 19:59:45 +0000 UTCAgreed on moving away from tier ranking stuff
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 19:37:44 +0000 UTCIn what way is he awful?
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 19:36:16 +0000 UTCExactly..the concept was more like a mobile starbase or small city of the federation that is on a long term mission in deep space exploring new frontiers, supporting distant colonies etc. Trek unfortunately slowly morphed into more of a star wars like thing with things feeling more like battleships than starships.
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 19:31:11 +0000 UTCNOT a battleship.
Derek Orr
2025-01-21 19:28:04 +0000 UTCI love the casual use of "Dorf" in these discussions.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-21 16:39:46 +0000 UTCYeah they gave that teacher guy a bad character. They could've fixed that by just having Timothy act up more. Yell at the teacher or something. That was barely acting out.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-21 16:36:29 +0000 UTCI was definitely surprised by that A+ given you guys have been tough on kid episodes in the past. Then again, the first kids' episode was that one from Season 1, which wasn't good at all.
Joe Concepts
2025-01-21 13:06:09 +0000 UTCThis episode was being filmed on the day that Gene Roddenberry had died of heart failure at the age of 70, which was on October 24th of 1991. Rick Berman's wife, Elizabeth, was at a library when she ran into Leonard Nimoy's wife, Susan Bay, and Susan told Elizabeth about what happened and then Elizabeth told Rick, and that's when Rick came down to the set and told Patrick Stewart first in his trailer, and then they told the rest of the cast on set about what happened. Sad, but eerie, fact, but Jeri Taylor also died that same day, 33 years later, last year.
Anthony Goodwin
2025-01-21 06:08:24 +0000 UTCI know it was a joke, but with the Kirk trial, it wouldn't have affected anything as Kirk would have been an authorized user and would have legitimately been able to use the jettison button.
paultardspambot .
2025-01-21 03:16:46 +0000 UTCGoing through the show again I'm noticing how much they gave Troi to do this season. Not all of it good, but a lot of it is. I would agree however that it was very unwise to let the kid pretend to be an android. I'd give this one a B or B-. The child actor wasn't bad, but not great either, but it's a Data heavy episode which always helps. A lot of similarities to The Bonding, but perhaps not as well executed in some ways.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2025-01-20 21:32:16 +0000 UTCI believe Gene Roddenberry died during the filming of this episode.
Joshua Langweil
2025-01-20 21:18:19 +0000 UTC@Column Meanie The problem is if he really felt that much guilt and anguish over what happened, she SHOULD have been able to sense that from him! Lying in a feeble attempt to cover that up should make that even easier.
Jovet
2025-01-20 20:27:04 +0000 UTCTroi encouraging others to enable Timothy to bury his feelings versus really facing what has happened is what really bothers me.
Jovet
2025-01-20 20:24:23 +0000 UTCI think he is just fine. I just don't believe the episode is written very well as a whole.
Jovet
2025-01-20 20:22:23 +0000 UTCIt's a work–life balance thing.
Jovet
2025-01-20 20:19:58 +0000 UTCIt's a big reason why the writing in this episode is so weak.
Jovet
2025-01-20 20:19:00 +0000 UTCMeanwhile, America in the 50's: "Sure, we'll build a nuclear missile silo next to this quaint town. Everyone is gonna get vaporized anyways." I think the concept of the Enterprise as a flying city blurs that line a bit. Unfortunately the low budget for extras and narratives of the series kinda took it more towards a battleship with a military base bolted into it. It does raise the question though, if you did have a flying city travelling through space, with homes and green spaces and schools, does that alter the perception of bringing kids along on a Space voyage?
Nolan
2025-01-20 10:05:41 +0000 UTCNot only that, he's the new kid in school too.
Nolan
2025-01-20 09:58:58 +0000 UTC😂😂 so ridiculous
Shanelle
2025-01-20 05:38:42 +0000 UTCKids mom and dad just died....he's trying to regain some feeling of control over his environment and life "WE AREN'T BUILDING ANYMORE PICK UP YOUR MYTHOLOGY BOOK"... LOL
Greg Quinn
2025-01-20 05:35:53 +0000 UTCI see a lot of people ragging on the kids. But what about the teachers? They’re so judgy. In this ep and last. Too much side eye. You’d think they didn’t like children. Or didn’t understand them. Surely they know all kids aren’t perfectly happy little geniuses.
Shanelle
2025-01-20 05:03:23 +0000 UTCA reviewer (lorerunner) says all the time how she should have lost her powers, and I think the writers originally thought about it.
Anthony Picard
2025-01-20 03:56:50 +0000 UTCI worked at Walmart for one month in college, and had to quit because my car got stolen in the night right off my apartment lot. Luckily my parents let me borrow a car of theirs after a while. It was an 86 Buick regal with power locks and it was 2002 when it was stolen.
Anthony Picard
2025-01-20 03:48:41 +0000 UTCI imagine that Geordi is used to Data abruptly asking him deep questions 😉
tyranusfan
2025-01-20 03:39:05 +0000 UTCYears watching humans in retail stores has taught me that no one reads signs. Ever. It’s bleeding over onto roads nowadays too.
tyranusfan
2025-01-20 03:34:08 +0000 UTCDude, same thing happened to me. I've always thought this was a C at best, sometimes skipping it on rewatches, and this time it was an easy A for me. The kid actor even has some good scenes.
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-01-20 02:44:59 +0000 UTCNot sure how I rated this and not really concerned enough to go back and look. But I feel like it's better than I remembered it being on the rewatch with you guys.
Greg Quinn
2025-01-20 02:40:19 +0000 UTCTwo hair brushes for the "head grab hold him steady" bit. Which is s little odd in it's own right.
Greg Quinn
2025-01-20 02:39:05 +0000 UTCThis is better than the last one, and at least he is pleasant. In retrospect, the adding of live-in kids was a horrible mistake for the show, and even in narrative never made sense. They intentionally put kids in danger with a thinking that mirrors no thinking in real life. Anyone that has a kid would not subject them to the risks of living on a battleship just to make themselves feel better while they pursue their career. They needed to do a story where the Ent gets blown up, 300 kids die needlessly, and then someone calls them all idiots and rescinds that policy for the next ship.
Ken R
2025-01-20 02:38:41 +0000 UTC@Column Meanie. That tracks. The play’s the thing. Let nothing stand in the way - even a pregnancy and newborn. The commerce of Hollywood.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-20 01:45:59 +0000 UTCI love that this really shows is that "on the enterprise, no one is alone" line from Picard in The Bonding. Buuuut... TNG kid episodes > TOS kid episodes Qpid > any kids episode Man, I remember seeing this as a kid, probably reall close to his age, and thinking he was a crappy actor. Tbh, he's really not that bad at all as far as kid actors go. He should tutor Dorf. Also, you can see that Stewart's grown as a director here with some interesting shots in this one too. Though I don't get why data is using two hairbrushes at a time. The first time I saw this when it aired and I was a dumb kid, it was a C episode to me. Now that I'm a dumb adult, it's an A episode.
Wrestling With Gaming
2025-01-20 01:45:36 +0000 UTCJust watched an interview with Nana Visitor. There was no such thing as maternity leave for these women. They were expected to be back on set within a week of delivery. Gates raised her kid on the set.
Column Meanie
2025-01-20 00:50:11 +0000 UTCSo you guys are... Bonding... on some kind of... Star Trek!
Evan Guthrie
2025-01-20 00:00:39 +0000 UTCA fun thing I realized upon this rewatch is, the harmonic amplification effect is a metaphor for Data and Timothy.
Evan Guthrie
2025-01-20 00:00:07 +0000 UTCThat Troi line about being unable to tell if he's lying bugged me. This is yet another example of why her empathic powers are entirely unnecessary for her character to be good. It's a gimmick they have to keep nerfing for episodes to happen. When they ignore her powers, she's actually pretty decent. If you want to make things interesting, maybe have her call him out immediately for lying but he continues to double down. They find out early on that he's definitely lying so it doesn't make any sense.
Justin B
2025-01-19 23:22:52 +0000 UTC@Nolan I mean that's one way to read it, but my read is that kids will always be kids. You aren't born into this world enlightened. You're born with very selfish and impulsive faculties that have to be taught away through parenting and school. Young children are still going to be dealing with that even in the 24th Century. We've already seen kids will respond as kids would in TNG with Lall scaring them, and that Alexander had issues in school as well, along with the two brothers in brothers, one of whom played a prank. That, to me, would signal that a human boy acting like a robot would probably get teased. Teasing is just part of growing up.
Steven Johnson
2025-01-19 23:11:09 +0000 UTCYes, I kind of figured Gates' pregnancy was the reason (or giving her time after the birth to spend with her child). Nevertheless, her character is noticeably absent from this season, but hers is not the only one.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-19 23:03:49 +0000 UTCI think they should have just permanently had Deanna lose her empathic abilities in The Loss. That whole "I sense they are angry" across hundreds of miles of space, or even right next to her, got old for me real quick. Plus, as you point out, it created a stumbling block for the writers: "How do we get around this when Troi can sense how they really feel?" "We'll just write her out of this episode."
Collin Freeman
2025-01-19 22:59:06 +0000 UTCLol. That was a funny reaction moment for me. "No, Josh, you got it." 🤣
Nolan
2025-01-19 22:46:39 +0000 UTCI dunno why, but I personally never viewed schoolyard bullying as a thing in the Trekverse. Like kids are in a society that is all about exploring and embracing the different, why would they attack that? Maybe that's just part of the escapist fantasy for me?
Nolan
2025-01-19 22:43:49 +0000 UTCI worked at Walmart for 6 months when I turned 18. Would never again.
Josh (Target Audience)
2025-01-19 22:40:35 +0000 UTCSeason 5 goes a little overboard with the kid-focused shows.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2025-01-19 22:37:59 +0000 UTCI forgot about that. Tough to film her doing much of anything when you have to avoid filming evidence of her pregnancy.
Tom Occhipinti
2025-01-19 22:36:22 +0000 UTCA shame. If it was due to not coming up with ideas, that’s pathetic. If it was due to wanting to sideline her, that was foolish.
Tom Occhipinti
2025-01-19 22:34:51 +0000 UTCIt’s a B.
Tom Occhipinti
2025-01-19 22:32:31 +0000 UTCYeah I’m fairly certain they gave her time off this season.
Jon1701
2025-01-19 22:12:46 +0000 UTCI enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would. It’s pretty slight but always enjoyed it as a kid. Kid was better than I thought as well.
Jon1701
2025-01-19 22:10:44 +0000 UTCI rated this one C tier in the poll based off my memory of it, but after this watch along I appreciate a lot of aspects of the ep I hadn't previously noticed. It's a B+ or A- now, based on the solid direction and performances. Good reaction, fellas. Thanks.
Joe Green
2025-01-19 22:04:22 +0000 UTCOoh, the second half of this season is gonna be lit!
Sherpa Jones
2025-01-19 22:03:31 +0000 UTCRegarding the trauma episodes... I have a doozy of one to talk about later, lemme tell ya.
Nolan
2025-01-19 22:01:30 +0000 UTCNot sure if you guys have worked much time if at all in retail, but my experiences have told me that yes, sometimes the obvious spelling-outs ARE needed. 5 signs pointing out the Self-Checkouts can't take cash, and yet without fail everyday, someone tries. Still better than the modern trend of repeating plot points and explanations 5 minutes later for goobers on their phones throughout the show. Now THAT is annoying.
Nolan
2025-01-19 21:54:53 +0000 UTCTo be fair was she pregnant at this point
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-19 20:29:48 +0000 UTCThis is one of my main disliked episodes mainly for the kid they cast who is beyond awful
Scarpad’s Domain
2025-01-19 20:27:51 +0000 UTCThis episode is the epitome of one that I forget exists, enjoy it while watching it and then forget it exists again shortly thereafter. It might just be that this part of s5 is just so.. middling? Thankfully, there are some bangers in the latter half of the season.
THE LORE!!!
2025-01-19 19:51:55 +0000 UTCAs I’m watching you debate the ratings, here’s my thought. I’m not advocating that you do this. I’m just contemplating perhaps a more objective way of rating these. Scrap the tier system. How well did the episode explore its subject matter and theme? Interest-wise, I could watch this once before wanting to move to something else. That’s purely because the subject matter doesn’t fascinate me as much. It should not affect my estimation of the quality of the episode, though.
Geoffrey Linehan
2025-01-19 19:39:31 +0000 UTCI'm right in between you guys on this one. B for me. Not the most exciting or interesting episode, but the writing is quite good and surprisingly tender at times. Enjoy the character shades it brings out of Data and Troi. Just an overall "good" episode.
Lovok
2025-01-19 19:22:46 +0000 UTCMy biggest issue here is with Troi. She's doing fine for the most part, but the unfortunate reality is her abilities are just a stumbling block that writers have to work around, and here it's like... The kid is lying, and she just... cna't figure it out. For some reason. Him being emotional is a cop out, she deals with people who are emotional all the time. That's her fucking POWER. So that part is ridiculous. The other thing that is absolutely dated to the time is the new-age pseudo-psychology of "Let the person explore their delusional state." That is absolutely *not* a healthy way to deal. More often than not, most people do not come back out of those states without help and being made to confront reality. Yes, it hurts. The hurt is part of the process of healing, though. You have to feel your emotions to be able to get passed them and into the next stage. Especially in a child, it can lead to a corrosive form of social dysfunction. Imagine the kids at school, for example, when confronted with Timothy acting like a dork. Kids are going to make fun of him for that, which is going to cause him to be more a-social. Which is going to feed the delusion. Which is going to lead to even more reclusivness. It's just not a good place for Troi to start. Strongest aspects of the episode are definitely the four main scenes with Data and Timothy. The kid does a servicable job, I wager he struggled with the moments where heavy emotion is required, but Staewart's direction does a good job of leaning on the adults in those scenes to keep the pressure off the kid.
Steven Johnson
2025-01-19 18:22:56 +0000 UTCPulaski had more to do in 1 season than Crusher had to do in S4 and S5. They just had no idea how to write her once they dropped her connection with Picard and Wesley left.
Column Meanie
2025-01-19 18:04:40 +0000 UTCYeah, the lying thing is a bit of a forced red herring. The typical "He's hiding something" which leads you to think he's an alien imposter, or something. Then, it turns out, there's no reason for her not to be able to detect. It's why Troi as a character is just a failure for me. Her character, by definition, betrays a major screenwriting guideline - show, don't tell. She is exactly the opposite, and it never worked for me. That being said, if she had just been a human being, I think almost all of those issues would have been avoided. Her empathic abilities were always spotty, inconsistent, and seldom useful, because the writers didn't know where the line was. This episode is a prime example of that. Still, everything with Data here is great.
Steven Johnson
2025-01-19 18:04:24 +0000 UTCShe literally says that she can’t sense he’s lying but it’s likely because he’s in shock.
Column Meanie
2025-01-19 18:02:49 +0000 UTCJonathan Frakes has said in at least 1 interview I've seen that all of the directors, especially him and Stewart, loved it when they got a Data episode to direct because they were generally so rich and easy thanks to Brent Spiner.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-19 17:56:39 +0000 UTCProbably poorly placed in the season, directly after New Ground, but I don’t mind this one, it’s kinda charming B or C nothing too offensive but nothing stand out.
Darren Seal
2025-01-19 17:45:37 +0000 UTCI enjoy lots of individual scenes in this episode, but the overall affect is still a little so-what for me.
Paul Hess
2025-01-19 17:22:49 +0000 UTCWhy not name the show? He played Christopher Ewing on Dallas, I loved that show as a kid. I was definitely not the target audience but my sister and I would watch reruns of Dallas, Knots Landing and Falcon Crest all the time in the 90s. Melrose Place was another favorite but we watched that one when it premiered. Oh the episode ... Hero Worship was okay I guess, I'm sitting on the fence between a B or a C.
Phillip Grischa
2025-01-19 17:15:26 +0000 UTCShe starts off being able to sense people infront of her, then on the ship, then an alien ship floating miles away, finally being able to sense emotions of people on a planets surface while the enterprise is 250 miles away in high orbit. 🤦
Fishing Trip
2025-01-19 17:12:54 +0000 UTCThe kid that played Timothy had just got done on a hit drama series when they made this. When they wanted to do a reunion movie for that show five years later this kid was no longer working as an actor so they cast the kid from Future Imperfect to replace him.
Jonathan
2025-01-19 17:01:08 +0000 UTCI think I rated this one a D. On my Worst 20 TNG list.
Jovet
2025-01-19 16:40:22 +0000 UTCRiker's already been through the wringer. That's why he gets a pass.
Jovet
2025-01-19 16:39:24 +0000 UTCWell, that was anice way to spend my Sunday morning.
Keith S
2025-01-19 16:36:19 +0000 UTCBut he was lying, and she didn't sense it. The writing of Troi was rather poor in this episode. Encouraging Timothy to bury his emotions though his "android persona" is not something a psychologist would encourage.
Jovet
2025-01-19 16:25:34 +0000 UTCIt's a B episode for sure imo
Josef Nitervol
2025-01-19 16:21:43 +0000 UTCThe palette an artist uses is called an artist’s palette. Or a paint palette. Usually just a palette.
Aramis Calcutt
2025-01-19 16:03:57 +0000 UTCStar Trek has a weirdly strong tendency of characters to get close with orphans through some kind of Bonding...
Tony B
2025-01-19 15:54:37 +0000 UTCPretty mid, c+ because it featured data
AzoriusMage
2025-01-19 15:41:38 +0000 UTCMy vote for most improved character this season: Deanna Troi. Most under used characters this season: tie between Geordi and Beverly, with honorable mention to Will Ryker.
Collin Freeman
2025-01-19 15:36:22 +0000 UTC
