YOUTUBE - WE DISAGREE ON DARMOK! | Reaction & Review
Added 2024-12-29 19:33:21 +0000 UTC
Comments
Just came across this at 7am to this awful awkward to watch episode…. IMHO lol… I think this makes the episode bearable to watch AND hilarious ….. if you haven’t guessed I agree with Josh !! Don know if this is allowed, but I have to share this clip with you guys https://youtu.be/BOnc74Vljx0?si=50kgIG2o0pM5sKrq Enjoy
giuseppe scigliano
2025-01-06 12:19:47 +0000 UTCI never take it personally. I just don't see how you could not like this episode. I understand your reasoning, and I mean, I'm glad that it was reasoned out, I just strongly disagree. I just really hope that when my favorite TNG episode ever comes along, you like it. DS9 will be a lot of fun, because there are some very divisive episodes. I think we're going to be seeing a lot of disagreement on that show.
John
2025-01-06 03:55:17 +0000 UTCMilitary uniforms usually have rank insignia on the jackets/coats. If you are walking outside around the base and have a coat or jacket on, people still need to be able to see your rank. If you are an officer especially, so all the enlisted people can know to salute. Star Trek TNG is pretty spot on with it's US Naval accuracy.
Clyde Frog
2025-01-05 17:13:17 +0000 UTCDon’t worry Josh, you are not alone. I am very mixed on this one and agree with both you and Alex. I like the concept for this episode, I get the love. I can see why people love it. If you buy into it, it’s really great. But I also get as frustrated with it as the main characters all do, with the limited vocabulary and repetition. Some days I feel it’s an A, most others a C. I don’t tend to look forward to rewatching it. The memes are fantastic, and I quote Darmok and Tanagra and Shaka quite a bit. I also agree that Riker comes off bad. I get that he feels powerless and frustrated and responsible for the Captain’s safety, and that adds to it, but it feels just written that way. Anyway, I feel you Josh, and I’m also glad that Alex like it a lot. If you think about it, this is a good representative reaction, with one liking it a lot, and the otherwise frustrated by it, as I suspect that viewers out there can be that way. I love the concept of it and some of the execution, but other parts I don’t, at all. As a minister and former youth pastor, it reminds me of a book that I have read where I love the general idea of it and have taught on the concepts of it to the students at events and quoted it a lot, but I don’t like the way the actual book reads. I just like the idea of it, but for me I like the way I communicate it better than the author.
Bagofsoup
2025-01-02 17:36:01 +0000 UTCabsolutely no star trek fan would agree on any top ten list.
David Marcoot
2024-12-31 20:58:45 +0000 UTC@LoTeq I think it means you’re self aware enough to enjoy different opinions on things you enjoy and find entertainment in them even when you disagree without taking them personally, which is pretty based
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-31 17:02:24 +0000 UTCThis episode predicted meme culture.
Lee Trayler
2024-12-31 16:55:25 +0000 UTCThis is actually an excellent comparison. A teach high school and in addition to this am a person young enough to be relatively connected to a lot of online/modern culture and there absolutely are a lot of people these days who almost literally communicate in memes (not necessarily memes that are images but more broadly speaking of memes as ideas or concepts rooted in some particular original reference) even without necessarily really understanding the original references from which the memes came.
Shane Coombs
2024-12-31 08:13:33 +0000 UTCThe thing about the idea of the Tamarian language is that there are real world languages which share some similar concepts to it where understanding the cultural background of the people is essential for really communicating. As LoTeq does a good job of broaching a bit, this doesn't mean that you need to understand all of this stuff to communicate *at all*, but it means that to work within the language to its fullest, you do. The other part of the disconnect here may be that children growing up in a culture which has a language like this can learn the fuller expressions without knowing the stories and can then learn the stories from those expressions. For example, children in English speaking cultures learn the sound "go" and develop a sense of what it means, while children in French speaking cultures learn the sound "aller" and develop a sense of what it means, while Tamarian children would learn the sound "sails unfurled" and develop a sense of what it means. All three groups of children would learn to associate the same abstract idea ("going") with different sounds and only later, as the grow older, would they start to learn more about the full "identity" of each of these sounds and more about the more fundamental concept of what it is. Human children would gradually learn the idea of what a "word" is, whereas Tamarian children would learn about it in a somewhat different way because their language is not built purely on words as the only "particle" of speech. The Tamarian language simply has an additional structure between sentences and words, whereas most human languages (but not all!) only have sentences and then words with no intermediary structures.
Shane Coombs
2024-12-31 08:08:29 +0000 UTCYes - there are a lot of people who think it is unrealistic but experts in the fields that the episode touches on have consistently regarded it as an excellent presentation of real world concepts.
Shane Coombs
2024-12-31 07:54:49 +0000 UTCOn one hand, I would say that there's a difference between disliking an episode that one person likes and disliking an episode that almost everyone likes. If almost everyone thinks an episode is great and you hate it, I do think it should be a cause to step back and make sure you aren't seeing it the wrong way. On the other hand, I can appreciate the perspective of disagreeing with almost everyone. There is a particular episode of DS9 that is very regularly ranked as being the best episode in not only DS9 but in *all of Star Trek* but which I think is the most overrated episode of the franchise and one of the worst hours that I have seen in all of television!
Shane Coombs
2024-12-31 07:52:40 +0000 UTCIs it masochism for me to like watching Alex and Josh rag on one of my favorite episodes?
LoTeq
2024-12-31 06:50:54 +0000 UTCNot sure what your definition of clickbait is then. Typically “bait” implies dishonesty. I can’t see how using an actual quote we say in the video is dishonest. You’re free to not like the thumbnail though obviously. I don’t think it’s that serious either way.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-31 02:36:02 +0000 UTC“I like the episode therefore if you don’t like it it’s because you don’t get it!” Lmao
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-31 02:31:39 +0000 UTCEhhh. Everyone has a well regarded episode they don't like. Probably at least a few. I enjoy Darmok but there are quite a few episodes I dislike that others would regard as S tier. It's really not that deep at the end of the day.
Spencer Loften
2024-12-31 00:44:04 +0000 UTCPersonally i've always found this one irritating. I like the ship scenes, but the stuff on the planet makes me usually skip this one.
jon bolton
2024-12-30 22:44:40 +0000 UTCThis is one of the best episodes of Star Trek ever. Even the "A" rating wasn't good enough. Giving it a D showed an obvious lack of understanding of what was happening, IMO.
John
2024-12-30 22:41:13 +0000 UTCI'm with LoTeq here and I really don't understand the strong negative reaction. Star Trek is full of "makes no sense" set ups. In TOS they literally run across another planet that not only has had the same cold war history, which would be believable, but uses Yankee and Communist and even has an American flag, the declaration of independents, and the constitution. It makes no sense that a different planet would create the exact terms, flag design, and document wording, its entirely implausible. But its a banger episode with a lot of meaning. So the stretch of the functionality of a language like this really doesn't strike me as different than a lot of their other implausible set ups.
D Gyre
2024-12-30 18:53:40 +0000 UTCOkay. You also disagree with each other. In combination with A...holes it looked liked you (=TA) disagree with the majority of the fanbase. That was a misunderstandig and I apologize for it. But A....holes IS disappointing clickbait, quote or not. I don't take that back.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-30 18:47:56 +0000 UTCI mean, this isn't unique among Star Trek episodes where you have an unrealistic setup in order to explore an interesting concept. TOS in particular is full of this.
D Gyre
2024-12-30 18:43:43 +0000 UTCDidn't know until know there are people who strongly dislike this episode. Always been one of my favorites and others I've talked with. See it referenced a good bit, one of those things you can quote and instantly people who've seen it will know what you're talking about it. Star Trek frequently uses unrealistic setups to explore interesting concepts, and this is a great one about language and meaning and common frames of reference but also how to come together. It gives us a bit of a mystery to figure out, its fun to realize what some of the references might mean, its moving to watch the other captain giving his all to form this bridge and be able to communicate with picard. Just all around one I really enjoy.
D Gyre
2024-12-30 18:40:32 +0000 UTCThe thing is, the way we speak on the internet has mirrored this episode in ways I find prescient. If I post the picture of three spidermen all pointing at each other in response to something, you know what I mean through the shared cultural reference. It’s only one step further to say “American chopper father and son, throwing chairs in anger” than to just post the meme image of it in response to something
Michael Collins
2024-12-30 13:50:26 +0000 UTCI agree, children can learn these words without history and context. That just suggests to me that tamarian children could learn the same way. Our modern disconnection from culture and a crappy education system doesn't change the history of our language and the reason we have certain words and phrases. Myths from our past have the power to endure in human language even when the stories start fading way. Star Trek presents an Alien race with a radically different ego structure that makes these myths and phrases better suited to share meaning. It's way less far fetched than a human romulan halfling that was born because of time travel. "The episode explicitly states that you have to know the stories to understand the tamarian language." I think you are taking this too literally. We, the audience, didn't need to know anything about Sokath, Temba, or Shaka to learn what their assosiated phrases mean in the episode. Half of the progress shown by Picard was done by inference and experimentation. I wasn't looking for an argument so I'll just hope you like the next episode better.
LoTeq
2024-12-30 08:30:53 +0000 UTCBut the implication is that the language has become exclusively metaphorical. While the “memeification” of a language could have chunks replaced. Fundamental elements would need to remain and could be used in basic communication. The idea that EVERYTHING is a metaphor now just doesn’t work. Are they really gonna replace “duck!” with “Grabtin, his head cut off!”?
Ervetzin
2024-12-30 07:48:00 +0000 UTCBut to give a score so low, I have to ask if you understood it and what the message is it was trying to convey? I am not a nit-picker but it does make me wonder why this episode didn't at least do anything for you? This episode is literally taught in college classes!
River Acheron
2024-12-30 07:19:20 +0000 UTCI adore SFDebris
River Acheron
2024-12-30 07:16:55 +0000 UTCThis episode was literally taught in my anthropology class. Instand S
River Acheron
2024-12-30 07:15:19 +0000 UTC"Most English speakers don't think about it but they use language like this EVERY DAY." They do not. The episode explicitly states that you have to know the stories to understand the tamarian language. You do not have to know the stories of Odysseus, Tantalus and Jupiter to understand odyssey, tantalizing and jovial, you can simply explain the meaning using language completely unrelated to those mythical characters. An odyssey is a long eventful journey, jovial means cheerful etc. Jovial also only barely related to Jupiter. Tell someone the stories of Jupiter and they would probably have no idea what jovial is supposed to mean. It could also mean throwing lightning, or cheating on your wife. So no, this is a completely different concept, the tamarian language is dumb and makes no sense and the episode is stupid and annoying.
Phillip Grischa
2024-12-30 05:24:30 +0000 UTCWhen you say you were tantalized you are claiming to have had an experience that felt like Tantalus. If you say you went on a odyssey you are claiming to have had an adventure as eventful as Odysseus. Calling someone jovial is a reference to Zeus (Jove/Jupiter) - people born under the sign of Jupiter were considered to have those qualities. Most English speakers don't think about it but they use language like this EVERY DAY. An alien species doing this more than humans doesn't seem fare fetched at all.
LoTeq
2024-12-30 04:42:05 +0000 UTCThey didn't replace simple words like "walls" and "fell" - those are examples of words that WERE NOT replaced. "Shaka, when the walls fell" <- in that quote, walls are a reference to walls, and fell is a reference to falling. It was larger/deeper concepts like failure, shame, embarrassment, etc that were replaced. Instead of saying something like "I feel shame because I failed" they say, essentially, "I feel just like Shaka did, when he failed to protect his city and the walls came down!" This isn't even unheard of in English. When you say you were tantalized you are claiming to have had an experience that felt like Tantalus. If you say you went on a odyssey you are claiming to have had an adventure as eventful as Odysseus. Calling someone jovial (happy, care free, optimistic) is a reference to Zeus - people born under the sign of Jupiter were considered to have those qualities. Most English speakers don't think about it but they use language like this every day. An alien species doing this more than humans doesn't seem fare fetched at all.
LoTeq
2024-12-30 04:37:10 +0000 UTCI would agree that many other episodes are technically better but for personal reasons, this one is my favorite. The struggle to be understood and the feeling of breakthrough hits hard enough to make me tear up every time. As a bonus, I really like reading the comments from people who are upset at the language. I don't hear them complain about warp travel, 2d life forms, artificial gravity, teleportation, telepathy, inter-species hybrids, time travel, etc. But a language based on allegory and imagery spoken by a species with an alien ego structure??? Too far!
LoTeq
2024-12-30 04:22:41 +0000 UTCNever liked this episode. Always a fun reaction when you guys have different takes. I’m with Josh on this one.
Bob M
2024-12-30 04:19:58 +0000 UTCAn OG scifi website, SFDebris had an interesting video on this episode, talking about how metaphor is technically wrong with how the language works and that allegory or allusion would be more correct, but I found his point that the universal translator actually is working but is taking the words literally in the translation - using the nonsensical "center enclosed jade" as an example from the Chinese language to be a more fascinating idea to think about.
Kristopher
2024-12-30 01:41:40 +0000 UTCNope, Alex and I gave very different grades, and have very different thoughts on the episode hence “we disagree” not sure how that’s confusing. The text on the thumbnail is a direct quote from us in the video. Your comment makes me have to ask.. did you watch the video?
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-30 01:25:19 +0000 UTCThis is what I had for a long while thought but it turns out that college professors have used the episode to help teach their classes and there have been some pretty good analyses put together explaining how it is actually a realistic representation of how some languages work.
Shane Coombs
2024-12-30 01:20:23 +0000 UTCThis one is beloved but also gets a lot of people talking about the language not making sense or being unrealistic. For what it's worth, while I can't personally explain it I know that there have been a good number of linguistics professors who have used this episode to teach various concepts in their classes and I have also seen stuff put together by people who are knowledgeable in the field which explores how it actually parallels various real world cultures or languages or whatever.
Shane Coombs
2024-12-30 01:16:28 +0000 UTCI can't imagine communicating like that.
Joe Ibrahim
2024-12-29 23:43:19 +0000 UTCJosh is 'we'? And "A...holes'? This is pure clickbait! The first time i am truely disappointed.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-29 23:42:07 +0000 UTCNot the greatest script. The other captain set it up to force communication. He died, but succeeded. I'll keep watching it, but not a favorite.
Joe Ibrahim
2024-12-29 23:39:07 +0000 UTCI just think in 176 episodes it would be weird and unrealistic to not have four or five eps where you’re way out of step with the consensus. Let’s us know you’re real (and not really boring). I love Charlie X, don’t like The Enterprise Incident. Whatareyougunnado. (This is my third favourite episode of TNG, though.)
John M.
2024-12-29 23:20:16 +0000 UTCThat's what she said.
thebeefmaster
2024-12-29 23:09:35 +0000 UTCSome people like cucumbers better than pickles.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-12-29 23:06:34 +0000 UTCI was 34 when this first aired and I had been a Trekker since 1966. I was initially put off and frustrated by the repetitive dialog and the length of time it was taking to understand what Dathon was trying to communicate. Upon subsequent viewings, I easily recognized the sheer brilliance of the episode's premise. There are likely a near infinite number of methods of communication from one side of the universe to the other. It is a small mind that limits itself to thinking that we humans have the best and or only way to communicate. This episode is an example of what sets Star Trek apart from nearly all other space-based science fiction.
thebeefmaster
2024-12-29 22:54:22 +0000 UTCThis is one of the best episodes of the series for me. It highlights so much about what I loved about TNG. It was a creative piece of sci-fi and a great highlight for what makes Picard such a great Starfleet officer.
ScarlettMi
2024-12-29 21:18:50 +0000 UTCI like this one because of the struggle to communicate and the effects the lack of understanding between both species causes. B tier for me. As an added bonus, the memes inspired by this episode is funny as hell.
Dru Blood
2024-12-29 21:03:03 +0000 UTCI'm SO tired of hearing about this one and the (reference meme re light bulb quantity) one. If I'd seen either of those as a first episode, I might have never come back to TNG. As it was, my first were ENCOUNTER AT FARPOINT and THE NAKED NOW and those kept me away till the start of season three.
Max Shenk
2024-12-29 20:55:18 +0000 UTCFallon, nodding in excitement in his studio
Colby Scovil-Turton
2024-12-29 20:41:06 +0000 UTCI thought it was a brilliant premise-- show how difficult it is to cross language and cultural barriers by immersing the audience in the same confusion that the characters are experiencing-- and one that would have been VERY poorly executed by so many other series and writers and franchises. But honestly, I'm so with Josh here. I can't understand why it's held in such HIGH regard, and add to it that unlike you who have just watched it, I've been hearing it for the last 40 years: I've grown so tired of hearing about how great this episode is and seeing it memed that I automatically want to knock it down a notch or two just as a fcku you to the fanboys. But if I'm honest, I'm somewhere in between you two. There are a few things that don't work, but they don't work in the same way that McCoy being so overbearing to Spock in THE THOLIAN WEB didn't work for me. It's like they needed to really stop and say, for instance, "OK, would Riker and Worf REALLY be this over the top?" and then revise, revise, revise. So I give it a C plus. Can't rate it a B because B is for "banger," and, well, it isn't. But it's not a D and certainly not an S.
Max Shenk
2024-12-29 20:36:46 +0000 UTCThese guys rank up there with the Pakled.
MrDeadstu
2024-12-29 20:36:20 +0000 UTCKinda like the next generation in real life
MrDeadstu
2024-12-29 20:32:28 +0000 UTCSome fans like to quote this episode, the rest think its garbage.....lol, well, memorable at least.
MrDeadstu
2024-12-29 20:30:52 +0000 UTCAs someone who did some linguistics as part of their degree, I really enjoyed this one! (What? Some of us have to pipe up, can't have all naysayers in that comment section)
Tiggy Tigali
2024-12-29 20:20:24 +0000 UTCYes I found this episode intensely boring.
Utterlee
2024-12-29 20:06:34 +0000 UTCI know some people really like this one, but I find the whole concept of that language so stupid. A language would just not replace simpler words like “walls” and “fell” with complex metaphors. Compared to other concepts in Star Trek, i find this dumb to an annoying level, and it completely distracts from the good elements of the episode. This is a consistent “skip” when I rewatch the series.
Ervetzin
2024-12-29 19:56:07 +0000 UTCShaka when the walls fell
Silk
2024-12-29 19:43:12 +0000 UTCDarmok and Jilad on the ocean
The_Truth
2024-12-29 19:39:08 +0000 UTCPicard his face palmed, Troy the obvious pointed, the Enterprise it shields down
Dark Kronis
2024-12-29 19:38:48 +0000 UTCMy most disliked episode of all STNG
John Zelinka
2024-12-29 19:35:45 +0000 UTCThey talk in memes and gifs
Fishing Trip
2024-12-29 19:34:17 +0000 UTC
