UNCUT - Ensign Ro (TNG S5E3) | Star Trek Journey 210
Added 2024-12-15 18:41:14 +0000 UTC
Comments
Another reason i love it is the Cardassians are my joint favourite alien with Romulans.
jon bolton
2024-12-30 20:14:36 +0000 UTCRo is one of my favourite characters, i love her almost as much the Chief. For me this is a high A.
jon bolton
2024-12-30 20:10:19 +0000 UTCMaybe she moved it while the camera wasn't looking. 😀
Jovet
2024-12-23 22:43:45 +0000 UTCDon't know if someone already mentioned it but this episode has a pretty egregious continuity error. When they beam down to the planet Ro has a jacket with a com badge on it. She bends down and takes the jacket off to put around a child and suddenly her com badge is on her shirt. I can't not see it every time.
Boston_Mike
2024-12-23 04:26:53 +0000 UTCShe starred in the first season of The Killing
Boston_Mike
2024-12-23 04:23:14 +0000 UTCshe was in homicide too
David Marcoot
2024-12-21 08:54:42 +0000 UTC#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
#MaxwellDidNothingWrong
2024-12-21 01:18:27 +0000 UTCRomulans were Cold War Chinese, Klingons were Cold War Russians in TOS.
Crankygrandma
2024-12-19 22:42:21 +0000 UTCThe Cardassians in The Wounded weren't doing scientific research they were running guns and getting ready for invasion. Maxwell was a hero 👏 🙌 ❤️
Fishing Trip
2024-12-19 21:25:51 +0000 UTCI think that guy was crooked lol
Chris S.
2024-12-19 14:06:16 +0000 UTCIm not sure if the tongue would be “Trekkish” but certainly a cheesy, teethy smile would have worked, basically saying “haha”. But yes Ally, they could use a bit more of that. But at the end, a quick convo with Riker would have been good, something like “you did a good job on the mission” Just keep the attitude in check and we can work well together”.
Chris S.
2024-12-19 14:05:51 +0000 UTCI have now LOL. All true!
Matt Newmark
2024-12-19 12:07:28 +0000 UTCor that "Bajora" is a name for the Bajoran diaspora as opposed to people still living on Bajor under occupation.
paultardspambot .
2024-12-19 08:32:50 +0000 UTCnah, it depends on the show. Stuff like Yellowjackets and From are very well written with subtle stuff that requires attention and thinking. This is the survivor fallacy. You remember the good stuff from the past and forget all the crap shows from the 80s and 90s
paultardspambot .
2024-12-19 08:31:22 +0000 UTCThey didn't know they were going to make DS9 at this point actually.
paultardspambot .
2024-12-19 08:22:39 +0000 UTCthats the way language goes
paultardspambot .
2024-12-19 08:07:35 +0000 UTCKeep in mind, by the end of the episode, Ro had demonstrated to Picard that she' s not a complete loser.
Jovet
2024-12-18 16:20:28 +0000 UTCHave you seen Weird Al Yankovic’s YouTube video Word Crimes?
Steve777
2024-12-18 01:38:10 +0000 UTCMichelle Forbes. Elevates every scene she is in and every show she is in.
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-12-17 20:19:17 +0000 UTCDerek the biggest problem with morons is that they don't know they're morons. Obviously I'm not saying you are one, not at all, that would be rude. Just speaking in general...
Oz
2024-12-17 19:52:36 +0000 UTCThe Cardassians in The Wounded were somewhat sympathetic. Yes we heard about war crimes, but in the context of mistakes their own people were ashamed of, and of course Maxwell murdered close to(if not over depending how big the station he destroyed was) 1000 of them. Here however, the gloves are off. The Cardassians are very much veering into space nazis at this point. It's actually refreshing to have genuine bad guys in Trek, as opposed to techno zombies like the Borg, or Klingons or Romulans or Gorn who we always end up finding common ground with. Invading and occupying the Bajoran homeworld and torturing people to death in front of their children, that some genuine evil. Sure the Klingons conquered Krios, but that situation seemed tame by comparison. The Bajorans weren't inspired by any particular group, but Jews in the 40s, Kurds, Palestinians, and Haitians were cited as inspiration. The Bajoran situation IMO reveals a certain moral cowardice in the federation. The Cardassians, seemingly unprovoked, invaded a neutral planet, annexed it, forced the native people into exile, and brutally mistreated everyone who remained. And what does the federation do? Nothing. Now I get that they just got out of a war with the Cardassians, but they apply no sanctions or offer any condemnation of their treatment of the Bajorans, and if anything they seem to go out of their way to appease the Cardassians(makes Maxwell a lot more sympathetic). IMO it's akin to having a neighbor who beats their wife/gf every night and won't let them leave the house, and you not only turn a blind eye to that situation, you invite said neighbor over for a BBQ and chat about the football game. Picard seems to understand the problem but until the end of the episode he was willing to be a team player regardless. We've had some great prime directive episodes that do a good job spelling out why non interference in developing societies is a good policy. But in a case like this it just comes across as an excuse to turn a blind eye to horrible atrocities. Granted, that too is something all too common in human history.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-12-17 18:57:55 +0000 UTCYeah my take was that it was an existing prosthetic that didn't really fit his head but they slapped it on there anyway
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-12-17 18:20:49 +0000 UTCMemory Alpha mentions the earing thing. pointed out the inconsistency. Other fans Apparently the "official" answer is starfleet DOES have a uniform code but its sort of up to the commanding officer as to how much its enforced. Since Riker already disliked Ro, he wanted to make it clear he wouldn't tolerate any shenanigans aboard the Enterprise. Picrard's response might have been different, as it was in the end.
paultardspambot .
2024-12-17 08:07:06 +0000 UTCI think also, reviving the Cardassians as more then just a one off race, adding a new malevalent power to the region other then the Romulans, was a great move. In Tos, the Romulans were the honorable ones, and the Klingons were the sneaky ones. They sort of reversed roles in TNG.
paultardspambot .
2024-12-17 08:01:13 +0000 UTCSo looking at memory alpha, this episode was indeed designed to introduce an "edgier" character, and they loved her performance from "Half a Life". Also originally it was going to be the romulans, but they felt they had overused the romulans and remembered the episode "The Wounded" and decided to make the occupier the Cardassians. Since the plot was originally romulan, it went a great way in establishing, with "The Wounded" the Cardassians as both an incredibly sneaky but more imperia, totalitarian people. I really like this episode but without getting into spoliers, it established things that become hugely important on DS9.
paultardspambot .
2024-12-17 07:58:37 +0000 UTC@Joe Concepts That's not how "nice" works.
Jovet
2024-12-17 04:06:00 +0000 UTCGenerally I agree that Guinan detracts a bit from Troi, although what Dr. Boyce said to Captain Pike in “The Cage/The Menagerie” also rings true: “Sometimes a man will tell his bartender things he’ll never tell his doctor.”
Matt Everkoul
2024-12-17 02:11:23 +0000 UTCSeriously? Given all the crap that go spoiled in the other comments you're calling out ME? I said that some stuff in this and the remaining seasons set up stuff for the upcoming show. I didn't say what, when or where. Go shout at the other ones.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-17 01:39:36 +0000 UTCThe guys have made it VERY VERY clear, time and time again "Do not tell us things that do, or do not happen in episodes we haven't watched yet"
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-17 01:37:54 +0000 UTCYeah three a week is a strong likelihood down the road so we might be looking at a 4-5 year journey left. Not bad. :)
Paul
2024-12-17 00:22:29 +0000 UTCYup, Whoopi has a great performance, but that same writing caliber should have been transferred to Troi. It is sometimes, but not as much as it could have been.
Paul
2024-12-17 00:21:29 +0000 UTCTo be fair, she was convicted and in prison. I'm okay with someone having a negative judgement over a felon.
Paul
2024-12-17 00:20:39 +0000 UTCI am sure Bajor is more like Nazi-occupied France or Poland in WWII.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 23:15:58 +0000 UTCNO SPOILERS!
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 23:10:57 +0000 UTCNO SPOILERS!
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 23:01:13 +0000 UTCI think there are a lot of Gen Xers here. Like me. People who fell in love with TOS during the reruns in the 70s and 80s. And then watched TNG. Well at least since Best of Both Worlds. LOL
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 22:52:18 +0000 UTCI am sure there will be three a week. From when? Positively some time in 2025.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 22:47:51 +0000 UTCWe know what the Cardis are a stand in for.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 22:44:21 +0000 UTCPatrick Steward would likely say: "Read more Shakespeare! If you can."
Sam Langanke
2024-12-16 22:40:16 +0000 UTCAny sufficiently good pairing has a good cop and a bad cop. Riker's job is to enforce the rules, Picard's is to choose which ones can be broken
Dan Halstead
2024-12-16 22:17:26 +0000 UTCNo, as far as I know, thumbs up is still a positive. Although interestingly, that one too has seemingly already gone through a meaning inversion. Apparently in ancient Rome, in deference to the film "Gladiator" a thumbs up was a way to show DISapproval. Go figure, right?
Nolan
2024-12-16 21:27:36 +0000 UTC1:02…..ummm Nexus? How umm….
Derek Orr
2024-12-16 17:59:50 +0000 UTCSo say we all
Derek Orr
2024-12-16 17:57:48 +0000 UTCOr Israel
Derek Orr
2024-12-16 17:55:08 +0000 UTCHuh ? The cardasians are more like post soviet russians or maybe Israel at times or maybe East Germany kinda thing The Bajorians are absolutely Palestinians
Derek Orr
2024-12-16 17:54:48 +0000 UTCWow Umm early 1970s gen x for me
Derek Orr
2024-12-16 17:49:02 +0000 UTC@BN13 Preaching to the choir It's the main reason I wrote, way back when they started TNG, that it's "a thinkin' man's show"
Jovet
2024-12-16 17:48:00 +0000 UTC@Phillip Grischa @BN13 But Riker did not do anything wrong. She did. You're listing all these things about "Ro's side of the story" as if they should matter to Commander Riker...they shouldn't. People do make mistakes, yes, but they have to live with the consequences of those mistakes. Excuses don't matter. These are Ro's consequences. You're advocating for coddling or handholding, which is exactly what Riker is saying he won't tolerate—instead she has to rise to the level of expectation aboard the ship. She has to prove herself; Riker has nothing to prove. Worf may have been AWOL but who on the Enterprise died as a result? (Did Picard ever find out that Worf's retribution was more than just admiration for K'Ehleyr?) Data disobeyed orders ("Redemption II") but who died as a result? Can Ro redeem herself? Maybe—Picard is willing to give her a fair chance. But nothing Ro can do will ever bring those eight people back from the dead. Are you trying to assert that the court marital must have wrongly convicted her?
Jovet
2024-12-16 17:38:34 +0000 UTCWell he didn't talk to her directly and insult her directly, but he also had the same "she has no business wearing the uniform" attitude.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 17:28:34 +0000 UTC@Joe Concepts Sounds like I'm right around your age. 👴🙈
Jovet
2024-12-16 17:25:26 +0000 UTCHow was he not nice?
Jovet
2024-12-16 17:21:59 +0000 UTCI agree
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-16 16:04:03 +0000 UTC"I'd love for 'literally' to have not come to mean 'figuratively' " 🤣 That's definitely a better example than out of pocket. Ugh I had several more sentences to write but every one of them comes out making me sound more and more like a youth intolerant old man - so I'll just leave it alone. (Just don't tell me a thumbs up in a business chat situation is offensive 💀) Spoiler alert: We're actually the Children of Tama - communicating in metaphor via gifs, emoji, and memes. Mirab!
Matt Newmark
2024-12-16 15:54:47 +0000 UTCIt's definitely a mixture of the Israel/Palestine issue AND of Nazis/Jews. The situation of "are they terrorists or freedom fighters" fits the Palestinians well enough, but forcing Bajorans (a group very much identified by their religion) to live in camps and abusing and torturing them fits with Nazis. In other words, it's not about one specific thing, and that's the best way Trek handles these things. It's not a commentary on very specific things, but issues the human race has to deal with. Granted, a lot of this relates more to things we see in the future and not just THIS episode.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 15:34:53 +0000 UTCWhy aren't we calling out Geordi for not being very nice like we are with Riker? He's just as bad. At least the ladies were willing to befriend her. But then again, she WAS court-martialed and convicted after an incident in which many think she's to blame for several officers being killed. Interesting they didn't give us any details, really.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 15:28:46 +0000 UTCI myself am not too far off from 50 years old. Like (I THINK) a number of the people here, I watched this original series when it aired from the beginning. So, roughly I watched it from the pilot when I was starting middle school until the series finale, which aired right probably in the same month I graduated from high school.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 15:25:16 +0000 UTCAhh Ensign Ro --- another great example of how star trek is at is best when commenting on the social issues of the day, and not preaching, but making you think for yourselves
Matthew Ganz
2024-12-16 15:17:06 +0000 UTCDo you guys ever notice how much Guinan co-opts what "should" be Troi's role and lines? Certainly having Whoopi there was interesting but honestly her guidance and intuition should go to Marina's character imo.
Michael Nemo
2024-12-16 15:07:23 +0000 UTCHe probably has a fat ass.
Chris S.
2024-12-16 13:52:32 +0000 UTCI actually agree. Thats a good point. The audience isn’t being challenged. JJ Abrams Trek ‘09 was a disgraceful travesty. Some people liked it, and thats fine. No hate. Actually, I saw it in the theater and had a good time. As it sat and digested for a while, I realized it had nothing in it that Trek really was. Corporate boards make these movies. Bennett and Meyer made Star Trek 2. He wrote it in 12 days, and went right into principal photography, with Harve Bennett basically having full oversight of the film. That doesn’t happen now. Plus, the people who write movies now don’t know story plot and character. Just shallow woke garbage.
Chris S.
2024-12-16 13:48:01 +0000 UTCUnpopular opinion. I love dick Riker. Whenever he starts shouting, staring, glaring, or getting inappropriately close, I'm just like - ".... take me." I'd be that problem officer giving his negative behavior all the positive reinforcement that undoes the mandatory HR training Troi undoubtedly assigns him on a weekly basis.
Chris
2024-12-16 13:41:36 +0000 UTCI'd like to know the average age of people on this patreon. Are most of you guys really that old? (No offense intended). I graduated in 2009. In most online communities I feel like the boomer. On this patreon I feel younger than the average person.
Spencer Loften
2024-12-16 13:37:21 +0000 UTCIn terms of character development, we don’t know if Pulaski was traumatized as a child? Of course, much of her history is an empty canvas. But I understand what you’re saying. We have come to love Data as a character. But you have to admit that if ChatGPT inhabited circuitry that happened to look human… You would raise in an eyebrow, and not be so quick to credit what you see as true consciousness. At least I would.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-12-16 12:35:21 +0000 UTCRo!!!
AzoriusMage
2024-12-16 10:54:09 +0000 UTC@Jovet It's exactly that kind of elitest and derogatory thinking that makes producers demand sub-par entertainment. What people don't realize is that by catering to this mindset, where actually making that initial assumption about the audience's stupidity more of a reality. How can people grow when everything they are exposed to encourages complacency? People need to be held to a higher standard and treated like intelligent human beings. Set the example, and maybe the masses will adapt and improve instead of deteriorating in the cesspool that keeps getting created for them. We get what we put out. We create what we assume.
BN13
2024-12-16 10:46:33 +0000 UTC@John Pierce Read up on the Enneagram Type 8 sometime. Ro's Trauma fits that profile perfectly.
BN13
2024-12-16 10:33:51 +0000 UTCYeah our great and enlightened future humanity crew can't even be bothered to ask somebody what their side of the story is. They just immediately judge and condemn.
BN13
2024-12-16 10:28:47 +0000 UTCThey like to theorize and speculate the way we did when these episodes first aired. If something wasn't known when the episode first aired, which you said yourself that their cultural heritage hadn't been established yet, then that's the criteria for a spoiler. Saying "this species comes back" or "this species get all of this cultural fleshing out" or "too bad we never see this species again" may not spoil plots, but it spoils theorizing. They don't want to know what happens in the future, no matter how minor.
BN13
2024-12-16 10:18:07 +0000 UTCExcept Ro doesn't even want to be there, and isn't even really in Star Fleet at this point except that the Admiral is forcing her to. Same with Tam by the way. So Riker is basically treating CIVILIANS like this because he's judging them as scum of the earth because in his eyes, they were bad at their job and got people killed, and he treats that as unforgivable. Never mind anything about remorse or what their side of the story might be. Riker doesn't want to listen to them. He's already cast them into the fire. Especially since he doesn't like either of their personalities on top of that because they are brash and nothing like himself. Riker's all great and personable until you get too different from himself. Then he's absolutely intolerant because he views you as hating everything he holds dear.
BN13
2024-12-16 10:11:03 +0000 UTCThat's what having a living language is unfortunately. It's not set in stone like math, it grows, and changes and morphs. Granted I'd love for 'literally' to have not come to mean 'figuratively' as well. And corrections for properness are things I personally appreciate as having their place, but English has been changing for 1000s of years to get where it is today, it will likely change in another 1000 years, we can't really stop it. If we did it'd be a dead language, and then no one would be having fun with it. Our only hope is that it won't get TOO dumbed down and some pretentious, loquasious verbosity will still enshrine enough personal lexicons to provide perfectly singular and superlative phrasing among decendents for eons to come so that decadent word-play and audatious witticisms can continue to delight the senses and tittilate the mind among teh LMAO cat memery and tide-pod challenges.
Nolan
2024-12-16 09:29:44 +0000 UTCMy sister and I lament the fact that our language is being destroyed. It has become an ongoing battle to decipher the latest abbreviation, acronym, emoticon or new use of a word or phrase. So sad and annoying.
thebeefmaster
2024-12-16 08:46:05 +0000 UTCshe’s not a guest on a luxury cruise ffs
David Marcoot
2024-12-16 07:49:48 +0000 UTC@Jovet: The first words out of Rikers mouth to Ro were "You will follow uniform code aboard this ship, ensign", not even a simple hello, he was a jerk right from the start and I doubt Picard would have cared much about the earring, Riker just felt the need to establish dominance. And it's not like Ro's crime was unforgivable in principle, yes, she disobeyed orders but so have most main characters on Star Trek. Almost all regular characters have all disobeyed orders from Picard and Picard and Riker have dosboyed orders from admirals. Worf went AWOL and murdered Duras and all he got was a disappointed look and a comment that this will go on his permanent record and by the next episode everyone acted like it never happened for example. Data disobeyed orders from Picard and then ignored the Enterprise's calls just two episodes ago. Sure, in Ro's case 8 people died but that shouldn't matter, disobeying order is either a big deal or it's not. Ro's only mistake was not having main character plot armor protecting her from consequences.
Phillip Grischa
2024-12-16 06:13:53 +0000 UTCAgreed. I get choked up every time. Michelle Forbes is an underrated actress, IMO.
Justin B
2024-12-16 05:29:39 +0000 UTCThat's why I said "an improvement and refinement."
Darin Wagner
2024-12-16 04:40:55 +0000 UTCFull stop. Bitchy old man here. "Out of pocket" means that you are not available. You can't just take a saying that means that and turn it into "going crazy" FFS.
Matt Newmark
2024-12-16 04:37:59 +0000 UTCWell Jovet, I suppose thats what attracted us to each other. Intelligent, imaginative people who read, write, and have an appreciation for good science and moral tales. While I am a creationist and dont believe in evolution, we truly are the sentient amongst apes lol.
Chris S.
2024-12-16 03:59:09 +0000 UTCWould’ve loved an added line where Guinan says her people were wiped out by the Borg, and Ro confusedly says “never heard of them”. It would really drive home that as crazy as the Federation has been about the Borg, in Ro’s corner of the galaxy they’ve had other priorities.
Column Meanie
2024-12-16 03:56:24 +0000 UTCEek! I could’ve been their teacher!
Column Meanie
2024-12-16 03:49:12 +0000 UTCThe Cardassian look like Warren Jeffs.
Christopher Boutwell
2024-12-16 03:48:55 +0000 UTCI think this is where my confusion came from: “In the script of "Ensign Ro" the character's name was given as "Mot", but in the script of [redacted], Captain Picard's alias is spelled "Mott". On the call sheet for "Ensign Ro", Thorley is listed as "Mot".
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:46:31 +0000 UTCWhat's a gym? (rhymes with "grime" or "dime")
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:43:20 +0000 UTCOh! I sit corrected. I was sure I saw it with two Ts before.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:42:18 +0000 UTC@John Pierce Pulaski did not do anything wrong, other than mispronouncing his name. Her opinions were uninformed but she's entitled to them. And she came to appreciate Data as she got to know and understand AND RELATE to him better. I can't stress enough how Pulaski's inability to relate to someone that could never be her patient impacts her viewpoint. You're right on about Ro and Guinan and Picard and etc.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:38:49 +0000 UTCI disagree. Tasha was never intended as a troublemaker/thorn in anyone's side.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:35:27 +0000 UTC🤦🤦🤦
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:31:31 +0000 UTCThat's an interesting way of putting it. I don't think I'd ever really considered her that way.
ScotchBeard78
2024-12-16 03:31:19 +0000 UTC@William Roberts It does spoil. Information divulged here comes from future episodes and series, and that is just the thing the guys don't want to know.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:30:52 +0000 UTC@Andreas Schmitt Alas, it's far too late for that. 🤦 To my consternation! 🤦
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:28:55 +0000 UTChttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjF4hFmyfdg
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:23:26 +0000 UTC@Phillip Grischa Completely wrong take. It isn't up to Riker to decide which rules to enforce for someone and which not to—that's the captains discretion.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:22:16 +0000 UTC🔼 🔼 🔼 🔼 🔼
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:19:01 +0000 UTCDo you believe what I have said to spoil future plots? I genuinely don't think it does.
William Roberts
2024-12-16 03:18:44 +0000 UTCSo another "Suddenly Human" call back.
Jovet
2024-12-16 03:17:54 +0000 UTCO.25. Looking forward to 0.50 and 0.75.
Nolan
2024-12-16 02:46:47 +0000 UTC"If you think he's a jerk then you've never been in the military. She's openly insubordinate to the captain and a commander and violates the uniform code and has a major attitude, and this aboard the flag ship of the fleet. Any officer would react to her badly, in fact Riker's reaction is incredibly mild." No, Riker is a jerk. He very obviously plays favorites and treats people he likes VERY differently than people he doesn't like. Had he liked Ro he wouldn't have given a single shit about her wearing an earring, he wold have started flirting with her the moment she stepped out of the transporter. This isn't about Riker being correct on paper, it's about him applying the rules very selectively, that's what makes him a jerk.
Phillip Grischa
2024-12-16 02:42:53 +0000 UTCDS9 episode 0
Mister Hope
2024-12-16 02:40:25 +0000 UTCThe guy who played the Cardassian Gul was a regular on Dr Quinn: Medicin Woman. He played Horace, the telegraph operator.
Regan
2024-12-16 02:32:49 +0000 UTCWorf is also THE Klingon in Starfleet, a scion of a Noble house, respected by his captain, and a giant "look we're friends now" symbol, I would expect Starfleet to make an exception for a not unreasonable request. And yes, Riker is being a little pedantic here.
Thomas Cole
2024-12-16 02:27:16 +0000 UTCThis is a product of the times it was written, I would imagine if it were written today it would follow along the lines of the exceptions that have been made for Sikhs for military dress, in that they're allowed to retain their religious items except when on combat deployment and they don't work with gas masks/combat head gear, I would expect the same here. As in, it would be allowed, except take it off before the shooting starts so you don't lose an ear.
Thomas Cole
2024-12-16 02:24:49 +0000 UTCPulaski was entitled and actively disrespected data for the sake of asserting biological superiority. Her disrespect of him was a tool to communicate a message to the other crew. Ro is the product of trauma. She is tough and always walks around with shields raised but is still that scared and ashamed girl deep inside. She expects to be used and hurt, so she pushes others away as a defense. The Ro, Guinan, and Picard stuff from this episode was pure gold. I felt like Ro's character growth was earned and it was especially strong considering this was her first episode.
John Pierce
2024-12-16 02:24:15 +0000 UTCFWIW, in the original conception the Klingons were the cold war Russians and the Romulans were the somewhat enigmatic Chinese, less dominant than the two main powers and with a history of tangling with the US / Federation. By TNG the Chinese were resurgent and booming, so the Romulans also got an upgrade. The Soviet Union was showing signs of turmoil, as did the Klingon empire.
Paul Hess
2024-12-16 02:11:10 +0000 UTCTo quote another much more cantankerous XO: "If the crew don't hate the XO, he's not doing his job." Granted, 24th Century humans are typically MUCH more mellow, allowing the XO to be a little bit more friendly.
Nolan
2024-12-16 02:02:47 +0000 UTCI've just 'done the math', and if I'm not mistaken... at two a week, there's only 6 years and 46 weeks to go until you finish every released or announced bit of Trek! Well... at least you won't run out of content any time soon! And by then you'll have a bunch more of an existing series, at least a few seasons of an upcoming show, and maybe some other upcoming bits. Here's to another 8+ years of the good times!
Scott Robert Edington
2024-12-16 02:01:44 +0000 UTCIt wasn't just about Ro's attitude and whether she was going to help or betray us. It was about her own internal turmoil and even despising herself, relishing the scorn of others, as it seemed to validate her own deeply rooted feelings of guilt and self-loathing. Guinan seeing the jewel hidden within the mud and muck of Ro's emotions and vouching for her to Picard was a powerful turn.
Paul Hess
2024-12-16 02:00:48 +0000 UTCIt's actually more realistic than you would think. In real militaries most Generals are half-politicians and don't really do much soldier work anymore. So you keep the competent officers at most at the rank of Colonel while the ass-licking half-politicians get promoted to General. This changes somewhat in war time, but in peace time that's basically how it works. You literally cannot become a General unless the politicians like you.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:59:34 +0000 UTCNo spoilers of future plots please
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:57:36 +0000 UTCCompletely off topic, but everytime I read your name I think you're a merge of Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins :D
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:56:57 +0000 UTCRiker as the XO is in charge of all personell matters, so yes, he's very much in charge of discipline.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:55:57 +0000 UTCIt's still against the uniform code. It's a cultural jewlry, but it's still jewlry. Whether he'd know of the cultural aspect... we can only speculate. They say there's other Bajorans in Starfleet, but Ro mentions that other Bajorans have assimilated and don't uphold their traditions anymore. So it's questionable how much starfleet truly knows about Bajor's culture.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:55:19 +0000 UTCJosh: "30 years ago, it's the same arguments people are having today." Yep, welcome to season 5.
KevinH
2024-12-16 01:52:49 +0000 UTCI give it a good solid B+ for all the reasons you said. One thing that held it back for me was the goofy admiral seemed so charicatured, but he was a minor enough character that I could forgive it.
Paul Hess
2024-12-16 01:49:30 +0000 UTCIt's that Peter Principle. People rise to their level of incompetence. You get promoted because you're good at your job. And then you stop getting promoted if you're not that good at it.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 01:24:41 +0000 UTCI also wonder if Riker simply didn't know that those are kind of a Bajoran cultural thing and not just a fashion statement?
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 01:22:07 +0000 UTCAnd he's also very protective of the Enterprise, and know it's a very special ship to be on. Plus Riker seems to be somewhat responsible for discipline on the ship.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 01:20:38 +0000 UTCCardassians/Bajorans = Israel/Palestinians
Mister Hope
2024-12-16 01:14:07 +0000 UTCIf you think he's a jerk then you've never been in the military. She's openly insubordinate to the captain and a commander and violates the uniform code and has a major attitude, and this aboard the flag ship of the fleet. Any officer would react to her badly, in fact Riker's reaction is incredibly mild.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-16 01:12:47 +0000 UTCWhen I heard "back in 2010 when we were in high school", my age hit me like Alex jumping off the ropes.
Joe Concepts
2024-12-16 01:04:48 +0000 UTCDon't worry, they said they'd do it. In release order too. So they'll find out all that Lore at the proper time, too
Nolan
2024-12-16 00:51:30 +0000 UTCMore we can't figure out Riker so lets just make him a jerk to someone instead.
Alan Thompson
2024-12-16 00:48:27 +0000 UTCI never put together that Guinan connected with Ro because they're both refugees. I was always kinda meh on their interaction, this is the first time I heard that line about - "People like us who've lost their home...." Makes so much more sense that she'd want to connect with/look our for her/ etc
Chris
2024-12-16 00:46:34 +0000 UTCScotty got to wear a kilt, but only with his dress uniform. I guess he wouldn’t want to be crawling up a Jefferies tube in one of those.
James H
2024-12-16 00:42:13 +0000 UTCTo be fair, he's probably the ugliest person to play a Cardassian. Most of the actors who play them in episodes to come in the franchise are objectively very attractive people. I was laughing at the boys casting call for ugly people because they definitely ignore that going forward.
THE LORE!!!
2024-12-16 00:21:01 +0000 UTCnah there ww2 imperial japan
Dark Kronis
2024-12-16 00:20:58 +0000 UTCIt is definitely spelled “Mot” with one ‘t’.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-12-16 00:04:13 +0000 UTChttps://www.tvmaze.com/people/43909/ken-thorley
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-12-16 00:03:33 +0000 UTCBajor and the Bajorins gets much more fleshed out going forward in this and DS9 which it would be an absolute crime if you guys didnt watch by the way. Also, it wasn't portrayed that way this time, but the earrings are linked to the Bajorin's religion and family name similar to Worf's sash. Those aspects of it likely were not established in the writers room lore just yet, but in retrospect it seems funny that Star Fleet would disallow an officer to wear a religious artifact.
William Roberts
2024-12-16 00:02:57 +0000 UTChttps://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Mot?so=search
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-12-15 23:53:20 +0000 UTCGlad you liked this, Ro was instantly a favourite of mine, I was in a Trek group that met IRL and went to conventions etc. Bajoran earrings really became a thing, with creative small businesses popping up selling them as well as replica com badges, Vulcan pendants and so on. I even got a piercing to have one stay in place. Unfortunately it got infected and that phase was over real quick.
Paul Rymer
2024-12-15 23:45:26 +0000 UTCKinda I'd say... But sometimes space Palestinians. Depends whose doing the show but also whose watching, what your social- political-historic take is. They are also sometimes space Indians (more the native american kind but sometimes the east Asian kind). Lol????
Greg Quinn
2024-12-15 23:31:03 +0000 UTCI always got the impression that there was more to her back story than she was letting on. A bit of antagonism from the crew is expected but they lay it on far too thick.
Jon1701
2024-12-15 23:29:34 +0000 UTCThe ones competent in their positions don’t get promoted often
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-15 23:10:54 +0000 UTCFollowing orders is the first rule of any command hierarchy. Not following orders and getting people killed as a result will turn the nicest person against you. They're not arseholes.
Jovet
2024-12-15 23:05:53 +0000 UTCYes. Not a double standard.
Jovet
2024-12-15 23:04:31 +0000 UTCAnd the Bajorans are their Space Jews?
Jovet
2024-12-15 23:03:47 +0000 UTCNah it wasn't harsh.
Jovet
2024-12-15 23:03:15 +0000 UTCFailing upward survived to the 24th century
tyranusfan
2024-12-15 22:56:10 +0000 UTCIt's your unofficial intro to Deepspace 9
Mordock_Vapelord
2024-12-15 22:54:00 +0000 UTCMy God, Ro Laren's speech about her father is bone-chilling no matter how many times I listen to it. Excellent performance by Michelle Forbes of a truly disturbing story.
Paul
2024-12-15 22:45:27 +0000 UTCI know we joke about how bad the admirals are. And they even read my take about it. But how did someone THIS DUMB make it to Admiral?
Jeffrey
2024-12-15 22:43:56 +0000 UTCIt's not about breaking down your personality, it's making it clear to people that they need to start thinking as a unit instead of as an individual, because individuals die in war. That's something a lot of civilians could learn a lot from in this culture of everybody against everybody. I miss that from the military. We were taught to help eachother because nobody can cut it alone. The purpose of the uniform is to identify with the team more than with your own petty issues.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-15 22:43:34 +0000 UTCMe neither today. To be fair, though, that makes 2 years in a row that I haven't gone to the gym.
Jeffrey
2024-12-15 22:42:47 +0000 UTCSpeaking as a former military guy in regards to uniform code: THere are certain regulations in the military where you want people to look in a way that is a good representative image. THe US military doesn't like beards, in the German military a well groomed beard is perfectly fine, but both militaries don't like long hair on men. So this stuff is down to regulations. However Jewlry is generally frowned upon. Not only because that goes against the idea of "uniform", but it's also dangerous in a combat situation, since you can get caught on it. Any kind of jewlry is usually against the unform code. Same for visible tatoos (if you have one on your chest, that's fine.. lower arms or face and neck.. not fine. However.. the captain of a vessel has very broad power on this ship, so if Picard wants to make certain exceptions, that is totally his authority. Worf's sash is not jewlry but a sign of his family and part of the Klingon uniform code, so Starfleet probably made an exception in his case, since it's not just a personal item, but something Klingons also wear as part of their uniform. Cross-culture uniform things are common in militaries,for example there are regulations on how to wear a foreign citation on your uniform, i.e a medal from another country. So all this is pretty consistent with how it works in the real military.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-15 22:35:25 +0000 UTCWell, ... yes
Adam from Germany
2024-12-15 22:34:23 +0000 UTCYou can expect a few more darker storylines here, since some of them (obviously won't say which) will already be setups for the upcoming DS9, which they knew they were going to make, so they needed to set up a few plots for it. And as we told you, DS9 is a bit darker as well. So if you like plots like this one, expect a lot more like this in DS9.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-12-15 22:27:28 +0000 UTCThe BEST "You're Welcome!" GUINAN-esk mic drop by Josh. 👏👏👏💗💗💗🎄🎄🎄
A G
2024-12-15 22:08:06 +0000 UTCReally like this episode; I just can't get enough of Picard outsmarting people and saving the day. And Michelle Forbes is a great actor who really brings the character of Ro Laren to life with her performance. I particularly noticed on this watch how she has this very nervous/insecure body language that really adds another layer to the character for me. And the speech she gives about her father while the camera slowly zooms in on her face is excellent. My only real complaint is that I do think the earring was a bigger deal than it should have been. It just made Riker seem inordinately harsh for making Ro take it off.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-12-15 22:00:28 +0000 UTCHe's supposed to be ugly. All Kardashians errr Cardassians are ugly...
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:55:46 +0000 UTC@Chris S. I suspect a lot of the crew, such as Geordi, felt the same way about her as Riker did. It's not bad writing. Riker and Picard are two different people and always will be.
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:53:50 +0000 UTCOh I would hope for exactly that. Have her stick her tongue out at Riker. Let these characters be a little playful. We're all petty and childish sometimes!
Ally Roth
2024-12-15 21:53:48 +0000 UTCI hope Ro Lauren wouldn't be that petty and childish.
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:51:42 +0000 UTCBecause most people watching are of average intelligence and half of them are stupid—less than average intelligence. It's very common for entertainment to be written with the least-common denominator in mind. There truly are not many "think about it" television shows out there.
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:50:43 +0000 UTCThe Romulans are Space Chi-Coms. The Klingons were basically Space Russians in TOS, but relations had thawed by TNG, so now they’re just a Proud Warrior Race. The Cardassians are Space Nazis.
Richard Finch
2024-12-15 21:48:57 +0000 UTCBut Data has no emotions to feel insulted.
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:48:41 +0000 UTC*Mott
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:47:26 +0000 UTCOnce again... I am impressed with how much the guys predicted about the future of the episode during the episode!
Jovet
2024-12-15 21:47:16 +0000 UTCThe way they use it I think it was just Orta’s resistance movement?
Philbot
2024-12-15 21:37:45 +0000 UTCGeordie always talks real tough for being kinda a wuss…
Philbot
2024-12-15 21:35:48 +0000 UTCCardassians are basically space Nazis
Philbot
2024-12-15 21:34:11 +0000 UTCEh, it's the military. I've read all of Basic is breaking your personality down, just so they can build you up into a soldier. Same deal here. And ahe DOES get to wear it in the end. It's a hilarious SFDebris joke, but I can see the thematic, practical, and real-world referencial reasons it was written that way. And Riker specifically says "YOU will adhere to Starfleet uniform regulations on this ship." Riker's deliberately signalling her out, likely as a form of disipline.
Nolan
2024-12-15 21:19:04 +0000 UTC#rikerisadick #youregoingtolovedeepspacenine
John M.
2024-12-15 21:17:36 +0000 UTCRo IS the better character, of course.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-12-15 21:16:48 +0000 UTCI figure it was a one scene viewscreen confrontation. They weren't putting him in a chair for hours just for that. Probably used leftovers from "The Wounded." And if it's true plans were for the Romulans to be the oppressors, depending on how late that change was made, maybe it was a rush job?
Nolan
2024-12-15 21:14:28 +0000 UTCstill a double standard, one get to wear culture items another does not because we dont like you
Dark Kronis
2024-12-15 21:12:43 +0000 UTCI noticed that all the Bajorans say "Bajorans" and all non-Bajorans say "Bajora." Perhaps an early tell there's a work going on when the claim of respinsibility used "Bajora?"
Nolan
2024-12-15 21:11:32 +0000 UTCEh, Worf was only discommendated by his whole race. Ro had just gotten out of prison for being a bad Starfleet officer. No accoutrements for her. At least not until she proves she can actually wear just the uniform.
Nolan
2024-12-15 21:07:20 +0000 UTCIt also can be a stand in for the jewish 'diaspora'. We even see Bajorans living not on Bajor but on different planets as refugees.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-15 21:05:45 +0000 UTCYeah and thiss episode is definitely a table setter
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-12-15 21:00:42 +0000 UTCnot allowed to wear a earing but worf allowed his sash
Dark Kronis
2024-12-15 21:00:22 +0000 UTCI gotta say, now watching the show again, I wish Riker would have been written a little more 3 dimensionally. Picard is dismayed, but measured. Riker just glares with disdain, and is grumpy and practically hostile. At this point in the show, Riker should have been written as Picard’s protege, learning to be more thoughtful and versatile. He could still be Kirk-like in his jovial fun way, but has been written as one dimensional, almost antagonistic towards characters on the show.
Chris S.
2024-12-15 20:59:06 +0000 UTCLove this episode but in retrospect the crew runs her a bit hard in the beginning. Riker and Geordi come off like arseholes.
Jon1701
2024-12-15 20:55:34 +0000 UTCEnsign Ro breaks the streak on 80’s/90’s TV of annoying late additions on a show.
Sharron
2024-12-15 20:55:26 +0000 UTCGreat episode and great character
Jeff
2024-12-15 20:54:45 +0000 UTCYou’re right.
Chris S.
2024-12-15 20:53:55 +0000 UTCHey, Josh caught the term 'Badmiral'. And Alex made another prediction which almost came true. Of course I don't say which one.
Sam Langanke
2024-12-15 20:48:26 +0000 UTCRo Laren is "Tasha Yar 2.0." An improvement and refinement in every way.
Darin Wagner
2024-12-15 20:38:19 +0000 UTCBig episode for lore building / deepening while also being a good standalone episode.
Forbidden Donut
2024-12-15 20:35:20 +0000 UTCThat confused me as well, however this time watching I think the idea is the Bajora is the specific name of that terrorist cell. If that's the case, they didn't do anything to help with the confusion by choosing that name lol
Forbidden Donut
2024-12-15 20:33:48 +0000 UTCIt must be because Pulaski is a woman! Which is why we also hate Ro… oh wait.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-15 20:25:39 +0000 UTCHigh School in 2010... I'd graduated by then. WTF have I been doing with my life? As I said in the takes, I think the allowance to add extra pieces to one's uniform is something that is earned in Starfleet. When Ro came on the Enterprise at the start, she was just out of prison, dishonored, and responsible for 8 deaths. At that point she had to prove she could still be a Starfleet officer before she could also be allowed to bring other aspects of her character into her daily representation. Prove you can be a good Starfleet officer as a baseline so you can earn the right to even wear the uniform, then you can also be a Bajoran starfleet officer.
Nolan
2024-12-15 20:22:45 +0000 UTCHey, hey, hey,… You say you like a character with attitude. But you detest Dr. Pulaski. All because Pulaski insulted Data. Sorry to go down that corridor again, but you made me do it. Edit: you knew somebody had to say it.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-12-15 20:18:35 +0000 UTCBtw, gotta say, the writing is so good because its “show dont tell”. Yes, there has to be some exposition in certain scenes for things were not aware of. But overall on this show, they do a fantastic job of the show. Don’t tell philosophy in writing. I think that’s why modern writing today in general is so bad. Is because they do not treat their audienceintelligently at all. They think we’re stupid, and have to tell you every single little thing about each scene and what each character is thinking, instead of using silence and performances to convey that. I think modern writing and storytelling has completely lost that.
Chris S.
2024-12-15 20:06:18 +0000 UTCI think this is the only time Ro's people were ever referred to as the Bajora. From here on out they are referred to as Bajoran or Bajorans. It looks like they were not sure what term to use in this episode.
Keith S
2024-12-15 20:05:30 +0000 UTCBefore Picard can treat her like a daughter, Riker's already on Ro like she's his snot-nosed kid sister. Wish there'd been a scene at the end where she shows Riker the earring. Cope and seethe, baby. Dad likes me better.
Ally Roth
2024-12-15 20:02:42 +0000 UTCThat Cardassian's prosthetic looked crooked. Looks like the makeup guy was in a bit of a rush.
Evan Guthrie
2024-12-15 19:56:46 +0000 UTCRiker's so mad in this episode. Must have just seen Josh's Darmok rating beforehand.
THE LORE!!!
2024-12-15 19:55:49 +0000 UTC🤬
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-12-15 19:41:59 +0000 UTCIt's an S tier for me for a lot of reasons.
Josef Nitervol
2024-12-15 19:37:37 +0000 UTCThat is Mr. Mot the Bolian barber.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-12-15 19:28:21 +0000 UTCI didn't go to the gym.
Dmitriy.0
2024-12-15 19:27:08 +0000 UTCThe world building in this episode is excellent, the Bajorans and their history with Cardassians, Ensign Ro herself are all compelling additions to the show. Genuinely a very very strong episode for me. Michelle Forbes is great too :)
Darren Seal
2024-12-15 19:17:43 +0000 UTCWelcome back, Michelle Forbes.
Collin Freeman
2024-12-15 18:46:48 +0000 UTCLet’s gooooooo! One of my personal favorites
T-Bone253
2024-12-15 18:45:22 +0000 UTC
