Target Audience / PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E2

Wonderful episode, this is what Star Trek is all about. and my first one as a Patreon member here :)

Data’s Laugh

2024-12-12 03:42:29 +0000 UTC

Just to clarify, I am not commenting just for the purpose of disagreement, as I know plain text could seem impersonal and interpreted as confrontational. That is not my intention. I am genuinely interested in your point of view.

Marko

2024-12-10 23:00:24 +0000 UTC

Picard did, yes. But in his situation he and Dathon were cooperating against a common foe, so Dathon was constantly repeating several expressions appropriate to their predicament. And even then it took Picard full day and night while being isolated with him. Not until when defending against the creature, and talking strategy, did Picard finally understand (fists open/fists closed). On the other hand, the Enterprise and the Tamarian vessel were in a confrontational position against one another, and they weren't exactly eager to provide more context to a specific situation like Picard had the chance. As Data said, they understood how the grammar works, but were lacking vocabulary. They needed to learn more of the stories, like Picard did (stories tied to a specific situation he was in). But because they were in a stand-off situation it didn't seem probable. Also from Enterprise's crew point of view, Tamarians kidnapped their captain. Picard and Dathon only had one another. It is a different dynamic. So that was my question, given all of the above, how would one go about and communicate with them and ask for more context? When they're not very forthcoming and their first instinct is to defend.

Marko

2024-12-10 22:43:08 +0000 UTC

Ah yes, the picardigan

Ramen Nudels

2024-12-10 14:09:29 +0000 UTC

What do you mean? Picard demonstrated this quite clearly with Dathan.

Sherpa Jones

2024-12-10 03:08:44 +0000 UTC

It’s wild that so many people downgrade their rating of this episode because they can’t suspend their disbelief that it would ever NOT work perfectly.

Pokeysaurus

2024-12-09 19:31:39 +0000 UTC

Interesting points. Could you please elaborate how you would demonstrate to the Tamarians that you understood their way of communicating without having the context, so that they would understand you?

Marko

2024-12-09 17:47:22 +0000 UTC

S-tier. This is the episode I use to introduce people to TNG. Everyone in the core cast gets a moment to shine, it has a (short) space battle and shows Picard at his best. Ultimately, however, the story of this episode is about reaching out and communication, its about trying to find common ground and THAT is what Star Trek is all about.

Unwated Arcana

2024-12-08 23:46:27 +0000 UTC

I love this one, to me this is how most first contacts go, the universal translator is something i find difficult to suspend my belief about.

Christopher Bartow

2024-12-08 21:56:24 +0000 UTC

This is S-Tier for me and one of my top 5 episodes in the series. Which you've now seen is rarified air. It shows how important communication is. And if it's possible to do even with an alien species, there's no excuse for not doing it with each other who often even speak the same language here on earth.

Dan Halstead

2024-12-08 20:41:27 +0000 UTC

Even when Troi and Data figured it out, they gave up because they don't know the context or meaning of the phrases. I'm sure if you took someone aside before watching this for their first time, and explained the concept of the language without any examples or context, they would pretty quickly understand what "Shaka, when the walls fell" or "Temba, his arms wide" means. They never replayed the communications log and tried to put meaning to the words.

Sherpa Jones

2024-12-06 17:35:42 +0000 UTC

From what I have heard, there are nuances to their language, such as inflection and pitch, that carry precise information such as coordinates, mathematical expressions, things of that nature. If so, it isn't conveyed all that well on screen. And I was dissatisfied that Troi and Data figured out that they talk in memes but gave up because they couldn't understand the context and meaning of the memes. At least you can demonstrate to them that you understand the concept of their language, if not the meaning.

Sherpa Jones

2024-12-06 17:31:38 +0000 UTC

I have to go A tier with this one. Riker and his team figured out the way the Tamarians communicate but did nothing with it. No attempt to even demonstrate that they get the concept even though they don't know the context. Instead Riker resorts to attacking the Tamarian ship. Also, he could have ordered Worf to land the shuttle, find Picard and protect him, but instead orders him back to the ship. Or he could have sent him in another shuttle to the other side of the planet to enter the atmosphere out of range of the Tamarian ship. Just little plot holes that could have been fixed if the Tamarian's energy scattering beam was itself hazardous to navigation. Solid A tier, would be an S tier if the rest of the crew would have been more useful or met with challenges that couldn't easily be solved by just thinking a little harder.

Sherpa Jones

2024-12-06 17:27:50 +0000 UTC

B-Tier, (the aliens that can only speak in memes from Planet Brain Rot) It's a fine episode with a neat concept, but the Fan Base is convinced it's a top 5 episode for the entire franchise, & it just doesn't click with me like that. Also how did their language come about if all they can speak in is references to stories

Justin DiBari

2024-12-06 02:42:40 +0000 UTC

Ok, this is one of my 2 favorite episodes of the series. This and another one later this season are my "go to" episodes to show the awesomeness of Trek

Max Yoder

2024-12-06 00:48:56 +0000 UTC

I'd like this episode a lot more if they spent a lot less of it just spouting phrases at each other knowing the other doesnt understand them and spend more trying to communicate non verbally like with body language or drawings. It's eventually how they communicate at the end of that guy's death but it's a very obvious solution as you frustratingly wait to happen as they just repeat scenes of "I'll just repeat what I said last time even though last time they didnt understand me"

Fedora The Explorar

2024-12-06 00:03:48 +0000 UTC

Love the jacket, One of the best episodes of the entire series Darmok at Antarctica when his balls froze! Great day to choose to stay in and watch TV

Thicketdweller

2024-12-05 19:01:00 +0000 UTC

A perfect encapsulation of the phrase, “We stand on the shoulder of giants.” Someone along the way had to have the courage and temerity to do something for the first time that would make things better for everyone else after them. Sometimes risking it all, as Dathon did. (Side note, Dathon was played by Paul Winfield, who was Captain Terrell in Wrath of Khan. Basically Star Trek royalty for those two powerhouse roles.)

Jack Molitor

2024-12-05 18:10:56 +0000 UTC

This is like when Kirk had to fight the Gorn. Only Picard has to fight something much, much worse: experimental theater!

Ally Roth

2024-12-05 11:19:41 +0000 UTC

DARMOK is a fantastic episode. A language of metaphors? Incredible story opportunity. Definitely an S

Owen Madden

2024-12-05 00:26:11 +0000 UTC

Trek predicted the future - Cell phones, the Hitler planet, and communicating entirely in memes. Skibidi brainrot, dog in house fire

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-12-05 00:04:06 +0000 UTC

Really awesome to see Paul Winfield back from Star Trek 2 in this episode.

Christopher Boutwell

2024-12-05 00:03:38 +0000 UTC

He who was my companion, through adventure, and hardship...is gone forever.

Banes

2024-12-04 18:26:59 +0000 UTC

This was an S on my first watch, but has dropped to an A over time. There are many episodes that require a lack of audience knowledge to truly appreciate. But, there are other such episodes in TNG that remain more enjoyable on rewatch. I’m trying hard not to make this season almost all S, so I have to make some cuts somewhere.

John Pierce

2024-12-04 18:26:43 +0000 UTC

This episode would be an A on it's own, imo. But the memes it's generated elevates it to an S.

TomEmilioDavies

2024-12-04 18:26:39 +0000 UTC

Shaka, when the walls fell.

TomEmilioDavies

2024-12-04 18:22:57 +0000 UTC

And the disrespect shown to his remains by that bum, Mike Stoklasa!

Banes

2024-12-04 18:20:58 +0000 UTC

An all-time great Trek episode. I still see so many "Shaka, when the Walls Fell" comments when fans call out some failure or bad idea in the modern version of the franchise.

Banes

2024-12-04 18:19:56 +0000 UTC

Yep! Leaving my comment hanging out there with all the relevance of a life jacket in the desert.

Column Meanie

2024-12-04 17:56:56 +0000 UTC

If I said "Shaka, when the walls fell" to someone who hasn't seen this episode, they would be totally confused, but we all would know exactly what I'm referring to. It's that simple. Don't overthink it. Besides, there's far more issues with universal translation in other episodes that are glossed over. Like when Riker's 'metal pin' is missimg but can fluently speak American English with the Malcorians.

Chris Mickelson

2024-12-04 15:23:09 +0000 UTC

@DaiMon Goss The plot idea that the deflector dish can handle way more power than a phaser element is laughable!

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:53:28 +0000 UTC

@John Luck Except "when the walls fell" refers to disappearing barriers between people, establishing a rapport, a friendship, an understanding.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:50:17 +0000 UTC

Respect the Tamarians for risking everything to make it happen.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:47:06 +0000 UTC

Their base language is the stories they tell. That's why Picard and Dathon traded stories.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:44:44 +0000 UTC

*when the ice cream machine felt.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:43:23 +0000 UTC

Don't threaten them with a good time.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:42:45 +0000 UTC

There is no indication that any linguists have tried to understand the Tamarian language. Just chance starship encounters in space before.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:41:41 +0000 UTC

I appreciate your being very deliberate and conservative with the "S" ratings.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:38:56 +0000 UTC

The Tamarians plot armor was too strong for our gallant crew !

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:38:11 +0000 UTC

🤔 🤪 🤣 🤗 🤯 🤕

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:36:33 +0000 UTC

I'm not a fan of his not-multicolored coat. Troi's loungewear is a bit much too.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:35:37 +0000 UTC

@Aramis Calcutt I think "Redemption II" is a very enjoyable episode, but it has may flaws that should drag it down (but do not). Lots of things in Star Trek are WRONG. Ships don't make sounds in space, transporters (as depicted) are impossible, and dilitihum isn't some fantastic powerhouse. It's okay, it's just a TV show and they're trying to tell an entertaining and profitable story. Not that your opinion about this episode is misguided—we all have different triggers where 'suspension of disbelief' files out the window—but it's also okay to scrutinize one's own such triggers periodically.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:32:45 +0000 UTC

Yes it is a fan favorite.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:23:05 +0000 UTC

Their language is acquired by telling stories.

Jovet

2024-12-04 14:22:09 +0000 UTC

Solid A tier for me. The Enterprise to the rescue at the last second seemed a bit too trite. Great acting and very memorable phrases from this one!

barry vanwieringen

2024-12-04 10:59:43 +0000 UTC

But from every scene in this episode, it’s plainly not true that they’re communicating any differently than we do. They are from a species whose use of language clearly shows that it is not fundamentally different from the way they communicate. From a “ways to communicate” perspective, they might as well be Earthlings. The only difference that the show itself indicates is that they use metaphors all the time. Well, so do WE. In fact, we like them so much that most of the time we don’t even realize that we are speaking in metaphors. So, within the bounds of the information provided in this episode their method of communication is pretty much exactly like ours. There is plenty of sci-fi that depicts us meeting sentient life that communicates in a way that is unfamiliar to us. This is not one of them. They communicate exactly like we do, so the whole thing comes down to nothing more than a translation problem. And they establish in this series that translation just is not a problem because they have this magic tech that takes care of it. For it to not work, they need to provide a good reason for it, and the reason they offer in this episode is nonsense. They use their lips, teeth, tongues, mouths, throats, and noses exactly like we do to produce speech sounds. Their range of speech sound production is identical to ours. Furthermore, they use words and sentences in ways that the translator handles easily. So, their method of communication is exactly like ours. The only difference is that they speak a language we are unfamiliar with, so this technology translates for us—exactly the way it translates for nearly every other species that we have met in this series—including other humans—except the ones that are clearly not humanoid. The only thing they show is that the translator cannot translate metaphors. Within the bounds of the show, this is clearly not possible. Otherwise, the universal translator would similarly be failing in every other episode in which we meet non-English-speaking species. Bottom line—if the universal translator can translate from French to English (or any two earth languages) without being confused by metaphors, or from Vulcan, Klingon, etc., to English without being confused by metaphors, then it should have zero problem translating the MEANING of these metaphors and not just the individual words.

Aramis Calcutt

2024-12-04 06:54:01 +0000 UTC

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" is a phrase that has stuck with me all of these years. Here's a new one: "Darmalex and Joshlad at Clevelanda."

T’Pynyn of Vulcan

2024-12-04 05:04:49 +0000 UTC

I could not but that does not preclude a race somewhere that could. Open your mind.......

thebeefmaster

2024-12-04 04:44:02 +0000 UTC

What I have trouble understanding is, how can one claim to be a Star Trek fan/student and not be open-minded enough to realize that our method of communication is not necessarily the only way. With billions of civilizations in the universe, it only makes sense that there would be, a nearly unfathomable, number of ways to communicate. Open your mind.......

thebeefmaster

2024-12-04 04:30:11 +0000 UTC

What I have trouble understanding is, how can one claim to be a Star Trek fan/student and not be open-minded enough to realize that our method of communication is not necessarily the only way. With billions of civilizations in the universe, it only makes sense that there would be, a nearly unfathomable, number of ways to communicate. Open your mind.......

thebeefmaster

2024-12-04 04:27:47 +0000 UTC

What I have trouble understanding is, how can one claim to be a Star Trek fan/student and not be open-minded enough to realize that our method of communication is not necessarily the only way. With billions of civilizations in the universe, it only makes sense that there would be, a nearly unfathomable, number of ways to communicate. Open your mind.......

thebeefmaster

2024-12-04 04:25:15 +0000 UTC

What I have trouble understanding is, how can one claim to be a Star Trek fan/student and not be open-minded enough to realize that our method of communication is not necessarily the only way. With billions of civilizations in the universe, it only makes sense that there would be, a nearly unfathomable, number of ways to communicate. Open your mind.......

thebeefmaster

2024-12-04 04:21:10 +0000 UTC

It’s an S-tier for me but I always feel a little sorry for the Beast. Here he is, trying to live his semi-visible life and two jerks barge into his home to shank him as part of a team building exercise ;)

Matthew McKinnon-Gray

2024-12-04 03:20:03 +0000 UTC

This episode was fantastic! So far a great start to this season!

TalynStarburst

2024-12-04 02:24:37 +0000 UTC

I’m not coming from any tech manuals I don’t read “this is canon” stuff. This is a matter of basic knowledge about how language works and applying basic logic to the situation. If the universal translator can translate language in every other situation, there is no way it wouldn’t work just because a species likes to use metaphors. Metaphors are nothing special when it comes to language. It’s something that we use all the time. So applying basic human knowledge and basic logic to the situation, what happens in the episode makes no sense.

Aramis Calcutt

2024-12-04 02:19:30 +0000 UTC

I think you may have read too many made-up technical manuals. No one here actually knows how the universal translators work and there's no in-universe canon that explicitly says this would not work or that Tamarians would teach their language the same way we do. If there's no in-universe conflict just let it go.

Pokeysaurus

2024-12-04 02:15:14 +0000 UTC

Just want to give my thoughts on the inevitable complaints about the plausibility of the Tamarian language, specifically the argument that it would be impossible to communicate the meanings of the metaphors to children without a base language. I think the episode subtly addresses this- we see Picard look at Dathon’s notepad which appears to be a bunch of scribbles. However at the end the first officer looks at the pad and immediately says “Picard and Dathon at El Adrel.” To me this is showing that the Tamarians clearly have a written language that they can look at and immediately process a new story into their lexicon. And without understanding the basic idea that they communicate via metaphors, Starfleet would never be able to comprehend the written language. Maybe that’s mostly head-canon but I thought it was a reasonable assumption given what the episode shows us.

Carl Williams

2024-12-04 01:39:15 +0000 UTC

An interesting thing I saw on YouTube recently was two guys speaking English, but using German syntaxes was very difficult to understand. It reminded me of this episode.

Keith S

2024-12-04 01:37:29 +0000 UTC

50K? Yikes!

Keith S

2024-12-04 01:18:05 +0000 UTC

Sometimes thing are so alien that your fantastic technology can't break though. S-tier episode of Star Trek saying we still have a lot to learn.

Aaron Holden

2024-12-04 01:03:36 +0000 UTC

@Timothy Nikiforovs Probably not, but with a more sophisticated metaphoric language, sure.

Jovet

2024-12-03 23:35:12 +0000 UTC

It seems to me that the context of memes is self-contained. The "Everything's fine" meme while sitting in the middle of a house fire does not need any external clues. The Star Wars Padmé-Anakin memes have the context in their facial expressions; the viewer doesn't have to know what Star Wars is or who those people are. That knowledge can make the meme funnier, but it isn't essential to getting the gist (if it's written well enough, of course). I've always found it curious that many of the words and lore that the Tamarians used were already known and in the Enterprise computer. Now how did THAT happen?

Jovet

2024-12-03 23:30:10 +0000 UTC

Yes. Love it or hate it, it is iconic.

Crankygrandma

2024-12-03 23:21:37 +0000 UTC

This is not a fan favorite but trek fans will spout lines from this episode in real life. It stays with you. I loved it because it was different, it developed Picard, and because I had read some of Gilgamesh high school and got the reference. Communicating ideas through story… isn’t that what Star Trek is? I’d give it an A but I think you may go lower.

Crankygrandma

2024-12-03 23:20:17 +0000 UTC

did someone reply about spoilers and then delete it ?

Lt Dan I scream

2024-12-03 21:24:58 +0000 UTC

Yes! Yes! Yes! See my similar comments.

Aramis Calcutt

2024-12-03 19:40:56 +0000 UTC

Hot take. I respect it. I do think this is just overthinking it a tad. The technicalities of the universal translator and the language itself doesn't degrade any of what the episode is trying to do, and it gets the point across to a wider audience. Plus it's prime meme material :)

Ca$hWednesday

2024-12-03 19:00:13 +0000 UTC

The introduction of the iconic jacket… Always enjoyed the idea that they know so little about this race that they can decipher the metaphors despite translating the words correctly. It’s not for everyone tho as I remember mother hating this one.

Darren Seal

2024-12-03 17:53:03 +0000 UTC

D OR E EPISODE!! I know I’m in the minority on this because most people I know love it, but I cannot stand this episode. I like the idea of being in a situation in which the characters have to work hard to understand a new species. BUT to me the premise of this episode MAKES NO SENSE. It simply CANNOT BE that the universal translator works perfectly all the time but is somehow unable to translate these metaphors. (1) We are constantly speaking in metaphors but are unaware of it. If metaphors were a problem for the universal translator then it would be malfunctioning all the time. (2) Once a metaphor is used enough times, IT STOPS BEING A METAPHOR! This is called a “dead metaphor” and a huge percentage of the vocabulary and turns of phrase we use are dead metaphors. Even though they were metaphorical when they were originally adopted, they stopped being metaphors and we now understand them to be literal. So for these Darmok people, after even one generation of using a metaphor, the universal translator should stop treating it as a metaphorical phrase and just translate the meaning. (3) How do the Darmok people teach their children the meanings of metaphors if they don’t know how to communicate without metaphors? If they had just one little thing, I would have been fine, like, “the universal translators don’t work because the Darmok people’s technology put out a type of radiation that interferes with them.” This is the one time that technobabble was called for!

Aramis Calcutt

2024-12-03 17:37:07 +0000 UTC

Darmok is an example of a perfect Star Trek episode to me. What starts as a seemingly stupid episode about some weird aliens that speak in metaphors turns into an excellent episode about working out your differences, understanding each other's language and culture and coming to a mutual understanding to overcome a conflict.

Ca$hWednesday

2024-12-03 17:12:23 +0000 UTC

No idea how to critique this one. Good? Great? Big idea that missed the mark sometimes? Dunno, It’s just iconic. S Tier for that. Inspired that concert t shirt and so many other things since it first aired.

Mike W

2024-12-03 17:05:32 +0000 UTC

Maybe they did at one time but it evolved into the metaphor language, much like dialect and syntax evolve for us over time.

Column Meanie

2024-12-03 16:12:02 +0000 UTC

Patron takes are read after theyve viewed the episode.

Column Meanie

2024-12-03 16:09:08 +0000 UTC

My pick for the best episode of TNG. This is not the same as saying it's my favorite episode; that's not until Season 6. I also think that the campfire scene is the best scene in the entire Star Trek franchise.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-12-03 16:06:59 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh —- as you guys have said before Execution trumps occasional plot holes. This one is dramatic, well acted, well paced, and takes a swing at some novel concepts. S for me, and then make it an S+ for Patrick Stewart's delivery of the Gilgamesh story.

Paul Hess

2024-12-03 16:03:24 +0000 UTC

It's not a decent comparison because if I don't understand an internet meme I can simply ask what that means without getting kidnapped and reenacting the meme until I get it.

Phillip Grischa

2024-12-03 14:36:47 +0000 UTC

Agreed, it's an overrated episode that thinks it's so smart and deep but fails at the basic level of creating language that makes sense. The language is nonsense, not only can they not create new stories they cannot even tell the old stories to their children, because if you have to know the story to understand the metaphors, how do you teach someone the language? The children could learn the phrases but the meaning is lost without the underlying story being told. Of course they could learn that "julietonthebalcony" means "love" but then it's no longer a metaphor, it's just a long word. The Enterprise crew figured the methaphor thing out by looking a lot of things up in plain English, tamarind children don't have that option.

Phillip Grischa

2024-12-03 14:32:46 +0000 UTC

I dont hate this episode but I also dont like it. everyone will tell you OMG you have to see Darmok its the best ... how novel .. how fresh .. NAH its iite i guess. blah blah Picard is so smart he figured out the language of a people who talk in movie quotes all the time. Yeah but got the dude killed at the same time. Epic Fail.

Lt Dan I scream

2024-12-03 14:19:52 +0000 UTC

The debut of the snazzy Picard coat! Always loved this one.

Ian Meyers

2024-12-03 13:58:01 +0000 UTC

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I never liked this episode and always considered it overrated. I mean, I get the premise and the message it's trying to convey but to me it's fundamentally flawed, to even communicate in metaphor requires a base language to start with, and can you even imagine trying to communicate everyday events by quoting lines from stories? How are new stories created if you only reference existing stories in the first place? On a more positive note, the camaraderie between the two captains was very well done. But not enough to merit any more than a C in my opinion.

Chris Wells

2024-12-03 13:49:37 +0000 UTC

My head canon was always that the insect language is parsed by the universal translator, while the Tamarian language we're hearing is the what the universal translator is spitting out. Still only took Picard two days to figure it out, but everyone not on the Enterprise is an idiot. That's well established. :D

John M.

2024-12-03 12:19:15 +0000 UTC

When I haven't watch TNG in years and I think about TNG, this is actually one of the episodes that plays in my head. This one sticks with people. I really enjoy this episode.

Sequiro

2024-12-03 09:54:59 +0000 UTC

I like it but doesn't hit S for me either.

Greg Quinn

2024-12-03 09:00:27 +0000 UTC

This episode will wind up being in the top 3 for the season.

Ron Hubbard Jr

2024-12-03 06:39:09 +0000 UTC

My friends and I sincerely say "Shaka, when the walls fell" when tragedy strikes. Like as a means to genuinely comfort each other. And I can't tell if that's because human beings have become more like the Tamarians since "Darmok" originally aired, or if it's just that my friends and I are TREMENDOUS dweebs.

Ally Roth

2024-12-03 05:26:08 +0000 UTC

I give this one an A for the acting. Picard and Paul Winfield were great. The story was amazing, other than the fact...why didn't Data just download all of the stories for that sector, read them in a split second, and figure out a way to communicate with them through metaphors of their own stories? I like this episode a lot. Might have given it S-tier at one point, but I think it deserves nothing more than an A, which is still very good.

wildhunt1973

2024-12-03 05:17:19 +0000 UTC

To me, it’s just a B. At best. I can’t believe the percentage of Patreon members that rated it an S. I don’t think it has any business being among the best of the best. I probably have only 5 S-tier episodes out of the entire series. The only one we’ve reached so far was “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” As I see it, in order to be “S,” an episode needs to be on par with “City on the Edge of Forever” IMO, TNG S5E2 just doesn’t rate that high.

Tom Occhipinti

2024-12-03 04:48:45 +0000 UTC

agree with the comments so far and hope you guys live it- S tier for me, Paul Winfield is awesome and watching Patrick Stewart show his emotions is so moving - happy december while we're at it

jan

2024-12-03 04:27:40 +0000 UTC

I always hated this episode, as an immigrant it was so frustrating to see, being misunderstood or unable to understand someone else, it always made me so self conscious, but now I love it so much, for the obvious part where patience helps solve the problem and the beauty of breaking that barrier. Plus jacket Picard is the best Picard! Lol B for BANGER !

Sixto

2024-12-03 04:00:19 +0000 UTC

I've been a part of those twitch chats where it's a flood of emotes, and you're absolutely right, if you aren't in on it it's basically gibberish

Doug

2024-12-03 03:34:13 +0000 UTC

The only thing that bugs me about this episode is that the Tamarian language doesn’t seem like it should have been so hard to figure out. You’re telling me that the Federation linguists were able to crack that drunken insect nonsense from “The Big Goodbye” but none of them thought to do a Google search for Darmok?

KevinH

2024-12-03 02:17:50 +0000 UTC

He's 0-2 in making it through Star Trek stories alive.

KevinH

2024-12-03 02:14:37 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh at season 5. Zinda, his face bored, his Tier B. Shaka, when the Patron subs fell. (Translation: Rate it below an S and you’ll be getting Wrath of Khan levels of grief for a while from fans.)

EnigmaticPenguin

2024-12-03 02:13:10 +0000 UTC

I think they're a decent comparison, their entire way of communicating seems to be pretty reliant on context clues.

Ian Westcott

2024-12-03 02:00:53 +0000 UTC

Darmok and Jalad at McDonalds. Shaka, when the ice cream machine broke. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Temba, his stomach empty.

Evan Guthrie

2024-12-03 01:50:01 +0000 UTC

This is easily one of the most memorable TNG episodes. It is my #3 episode for the series. It represents quite well what trying to communicate with an alien species would be like, with few common references. Math and music would seem to be the most "universal" languages.

HuskerChuck

2024-12-03 01:38:56 +0000 UTC

It's magical enough to fully understand the context and use of metaphors and such with every other language, but not this one. But I'm not really concerned enough to have a long debate about it, heh. Like I said, it's a good episode, definitely an A for me as an adult, up from B- or so from when I first saw it as a kid.

Boggle

2024-12-03 00:54:32 +0000 UTC

This episode it what Star Trek is all about. However, I will say that some aspects of the language barrier don't make sense. How can you speak in metaphors and not have a base language?

Gaming the Systems

2024-12-03 00:46:29 +0000 UTC

The universal translator did work - all their words were converted into English.

Pokeysaurus

2024-12-03 00:40:32 +0000 UTC

This is my favorite episode and the reason why I originally joined your Patreon back in Season 2. We get to see not only Trek at its best - using the setting to talk about communication, differences, and similarities between cultures - but within the episode we see the Federation at its best - a diplomat fighting when he needs to in order to achieve not just peace but friendship.

Pokeysaurus

2024-12-03 00:38:26 +0000 UTC

Easy S tier for me. They show this episode in college linguistic courses.

Darin Wagner

2024-12-03 00:30:01 +0000 UTC

This episode is the first time you see Picard 's new jacket.

Keith S

2024-12-03 00:14:12 +0000 UTC

Unless you recognize his name in the credits, you won’t recognize Paul Winfield (Captain Dathon) as Captain Terrell from The Wrath of Khan.

James H

2024-12-03 00:03:27 +0000 UTC

Agreed; you have to wonder how the people ever developed their basic grammar and vocabulary… the premise is just linguistically implausible.

James H

2024-12-03 00:00:08 +0000 UTC

Or will it be more like 'B tier, when the walls fell'?

Forbidden Donut

2024-12-02 23:43:02 +0000 UTC

I guess I always assumed they were speaking their own language, and that the universal translator could swap out individual words to English, but it couldn't figure out the phrasing layer.

Forbidden Donut

2024-12-02 23:41:42 +0000 UTC

I love this episode, but as a kid it always irked me as being an "Enemy Mine rip-off", which was one of my favorite movies around that time. Whether it was meant to be or not I honestly don't know, but it colored my bias unfairly against it back then. As an adult, I can appreciate the episode more in what it was trying to do. I don't see why the universal translator wouldn't still have worked, but hey, it's a fun episode and worthy of an 'A' rating imo.

Boggle

2024-12-02 23:41:09 +0000 UTC

My favorite episode of TNG, and maybe the franchise's best example of the "seek out new civilizations" ethos. There are definitely logistical issues with the Tamarian language, but it's a great device for the audience to figure out what's happening alongside the crew. Picard taking control of the situation on the bridge at the end and jumping straight into conversation with the Tamarians is a classic "Jean-Luc Picard moment".

Alex Buell

2024-12-02 23:37:56 +0000 UTC

One wonders if they'll prefer Winfield's performance here to that of the much-praised David Ogden Stiers!

Jovet

2024-12-02 23:36:08 +0000 UTC

This is one of those episodes that sticks with you. It shows us that the Federation aren't just explorers in the sense of like Columbus, seeking out new places and new peoples in order to exploit them for wealth and glory, but truly to understand and communicate with them, AND it shows just how much harder that second type of exploration is than the first, but also how much more rewarding it is.

DthDisguise

2024-12-02 23:34:11 +0000 UTC

The universal translator can convert the words. But it was not designed for conveying the meaning of the Tamarian language scheme. The two strangers had several things in common, actually. They were both men, both ship captains, both bipedal, both dependent upon an oxygen atmosphere, both communicate vocally, the list goes on.

Jovet

2024-12-02 23:33:01 +0000 UTC

An absolute splatter!!

Jovet

2024-12-02 23:30:00 +0000 UTC

I forgot she was in this. Dang, she used to be so pretty.

Jovet

2024-12-02 23:29:27 +0000 UTC

Memes are not an appropriate comparison. Because there are usually enough context clues to still be able to understand them.

Jovet

2024-12-02 23:28:06 +0000 UTC

What a great example episode for what Star Trek is and can be. I believe it was Rich Evans from RedLetterMedia who previously pointed out that one of the things that makes this episode so good is that it teaches you the alien language along with teaching Picard, so by the end of the episode you can basically understand what Picard is saying to them on the view screen.

Forbidden Donut

2024-12-02 23:26:55 +0000 UTC

One of the best episodes in all of Star Trek.

Turtleboy

2024-12-02 23:25:15 +0000 UTC

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!!

Bret Kay

2024-12-02 23:21:48 +0000 UTC

This episode is a fan favorite of the series and it is easy to see why. The story of breaking through language barriers is done in a compelling way here. When I taught high school English I found every excuse to show this episode (exploring metaphor) and I often found my students enjoyed it. Real star of the show is Paul Winfield who plays Dathon with so much sympathy that we feel a little crushed when he dies. By the way, that new uniform of Picard’s cost over $50k and the costume department was horrified that in it’s first episode Picard is sleeping in the dirt

Column Meanie

2024-12-02 23:15:09 +0000 UTC

Oh, and the Tamarian language has sometimes been compared to the modern use of Internet memes to convey both information and emotion -- information such a person doing something that backfires, and emotion such as disgust for the person's stupidity.

Ian Westcott

2024-12-02 23:04:53 +0000 UTC

Wow, it's Ashley Judd! I really liked this episode. We last saw Paul Winfield in Wrath of Khan, and he's fantastic here as Picard's counterpart. But the episode is a LITTLE flawed in that it's hard to imagine how this language is actually practical, and the conceit breaks down when you want to try explaining really technical things to other people in that language. Analysts have noted the language is NOT metaphor as stated in the episode, but something stranger: imagery or symbolic. There are similarities to allegory, but its deeper makeup in abstraction or logic, with the need for a shared understanding by all involved of the problem that fills in the gaps.

Ian Westcott

2024-12-02 23:03:20 +0000 UTC

An absolute banger. That's all I have to say.

Spencer Loften

2024-12-02 22:49:17 +0000 UTC

This is a wonderful episode about communication and two strangers with nothing in common finding a way to work together. Yes, there are flaws. The Tamarians are of course speaking English, for the audience’s sake. In reality, they’d be speaking their own language, AND in metaphors only they know, and the Enterprise crew would have been completely screwed!

tyranusfan

2024-12-02 22:35:52 +0000 UTC

Holds up cup…

ByRikersBeard

2024-12-02 22:12:26 +0000 UTC

This episode to me has always been the epitome of what Star Trek is all about, the wanting to know more about what's out there. Dathon was willing to give his life to learn. Paul Winfield looks much different here than he did when he and Chekov got the Killer Earwig treatment in “Wrath of Khan”. Another reason why Season 5 is my favorite TNG season. Two “Best of the Best” ranked episodes in a row for me.

KatWithAttitude

2024-12-02 22:12:21 +0000 UTC

A great sci-fi idea executed so flawlessly that it starts to feel like one of the ageless, mythic stories it glorifies. Bonus points for being the TNG compare and contrast with TOS's Arena. Bonus bonus points for the reincarnation of Capt. Terrell. It's on my Mount Rushmore of TNG. S++.

John M.

2024-12-02 22:08:38 +0000 UTC

S Tier, I love Arrival (2016)

Kenneth Elder

2024-12-02 21:56:03 +0000 UTC

And he is dying for a Enterprise captain - Again! Just can't catch a break (same actor who played Captain Terrell in Wrath of Khan)

Thomas Cole

2024-12-02 21:53:07 +0000 UTC

This is STAR TREK this will be S Tier for sure, Language isnt universal and deciphering that language could be a greater task in of its self.

GamingHour2018

2024-12-02 21:51:56 +0000 UTC

Ah yes, the deflector dish. When needed, it can do pretty much ANYTHING. One of the more ridiculous examples is coming up in a few weeks.

JGoss

2024-12-02 21:49:19 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh, their tiers S.

William Roberts

2024-12-02 21:32:54 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh on a new set with a remote!! You guys talked about how this or that episode of TNG should be taught in school. THIS episode actually WAS taught at universities…about the importance of communication, understanding, and finding common ground! This episode is pure genius. Definitely in my TNG Top 5 of all time and the EPITOME of what Star Trek is about! 🖖

Raphael Gaytan

2024-12-02 21:28:37 +0000 UTC

I just mean the Tamerian language. Like do the Temarians understand humans? They speak in metaphors, which means that they understand what the words they are saying mean. How do the Temarians even read the story of Darmok and Jelad to their children if the story itself is how they communicate? Is there a Russian nesting doll of story metaphors to explain previous stories? How in the world does a culture like that have literature, science and warp technology with a language so ridiculously imprecise? Like the more I think about it, the less sense it makes lmao

Deep Red

2024-12-02 21:13:34 +0000 UTC

Right, I meant that just because it translated the words there was no way to understand the concepts without more context or history of the Tamarians to understand the metaphors they are referencing.

Eric Traylor

2024-12-02 21:11:18 +0000 UTC

Sure, but could you conduct a business meeting or design a supersonic aircraft, or discuss the engineering of a particle accelerator with emojis?

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-12-02 21:07:40 +0000 UTC

My favorite episode of TNG. Not super hard science bit a real attempt to show an alien method of communication. Great acting by both Sir Patrick and Paul Winfield.

Cirk Bejnar

2024-12-02 21:06:36 +0000 UTC

considered one of the best S tier in the entire trek franchise, delving into how we would try to understand an alien race with completely alien way communicating, and how magical the translators are in trek, it like if a alien race discovered us and we spoke in meme's and emoji

Dark Kronis

2024-12-02 21:04:37 +0000 UTC

Bingo!! Best comment

Jovet

2024-12-02 21:01:48 +0000 UTC

Emojis are a "language" like that. But they're not as difficult to understand, since we can almost all recognize a face and its depicted expression.

Jovet

2024-12-02 21:01:06 +0000 UTC

I've always found words that are unique and "untranslatable" in a given language very fascinating. For example, words in Spanish that don't have the same or adequate translation into English. The concept can be explained in English, but there is similar concise word for the same thing.

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:59:38 +0000 UTC

THE big meme episode. What's really great about this episode's lesson of learning understanding is that if you pay attention, when you rewatch it, you can TOTALLY understand what the aliens are saying in the first half. (Even though we get yet another "T____arian" alien species)

Nolan

2024-12-02 20:59:06 +0000 UTC

The concepts stretch believability but the execution is so satisfying. S.

rear adm. crackbiscuit

2024-12-02 20:56:42 +0000 UTC

It works very well, it just wasn't designed or programed with this approach to language in mind.

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:56:12 +0000 UTC

In [episode name redacted] we also saw a galaxy class fire torpedoes out of it's deflector dish. Those ships do odd things when they're angry(or the VFX guys are drunk)

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-12-02 20:56:06 +0000 UTC

Temba! His arms wide!

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:55:03 +0000 UTC

THIS EPISODE is all I think of when I'm on sites like Twitch where people in chats constantly post all these silly emotes that make no sense to me. It's a completely different kind of language that is not possible to decipher unless you're in on it.

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:53:56 +0000 UTC

What? This story makes perfect sense. Troi's speech nails it!

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:50:22 +0000 UTC

Picard, his eyes uncovered!!

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:49:39 +0000 UTC

(In Picard's voice) I believe there are very few S-tier episodes. They are the most very special of them all. This is one of them.

Jovet

2024-12-02 20:49:15 +0000 UTC

Oh you know it's a good one when it ends with thoughtful Picard staring out that window...

Joe Concepts

2024-12-02 20:49:05 +0000 UTC

Great slow burn story as Picard, and us, piece together what the Alien Captain's intentions are.

James Knight

2024-12-02 20:43:53 +0000 UTC

Picard and Dathon at El Adril!

ByRikersBeard

2024-12-02 20:38:21 +0000 UTC

Okay, here is Part 2 of my absolutely nuclear Star Trek hot takes: This episode is great like everyone says. Sorry no spice today. While the concept actually doesn't really make any sense, I just love stories about trying to understand other cultures. The relationship between Picard and Dathon just really warms my heart. I've always believed stories and works of fiction are sometimes even more critical to understanding a culture than learning its history. This episode really lays that concept on the table in a truly novel way. (Pun intended)

Deep Red

2024-12-02 20:37:36 +0000 UTC

This episode is really special to me since it's the first episode of Star Trek I watched when I had to watch it for a college language class 10 years ago. It's my favorite episode of TNG and in my opinion it's the most "Star Trek" episode of the series.

Doug

2024-12-02 20:28:27 +0000 UTC

One of the best “only in Star Trek” episodes. The universal translator technology up till now has mostly been a hand wave for not having to deal with language barriers every single episode. Making an episode dedicated to bridging human language with a truly alien understanding of it makes this memorable and one of the best, even if it’s a little slow to become thought provoking. Easy S.

cricketlenny

2024-12-02 20:27:40 +0000 UTC

This is one of the five episodes I used to introduce my friend to Star Trek. It was this, a later episode I will doubtless remark on when it shows up, "Yesterday's Enterprise." It's a great "Science Fiction" episode, much like "Tin Man", so I worry you guys may not appreciate it. I think this is better than Tin Man, and there is a monster, and Patrick Stewart gets to show off his acting chops more than he did in the aforementioned episode, so maybe it'll be more liked. Also, "Darmok... and Jalad... at Tanagra." Famous quote #19

John

2024-12-02 20:25:16 +0000 UTC

This episode finally marks the debut of Picard’s alternate uniform. Much like Kirk’s green wrap-around variant worn in the original series, it’s a cool way for Picard to stand out visually as the Captain.

Matt Everkoul

2024-12-02 20:20:33 +0000 UTC

This is a very well loved and talked of episode, but it was always kind meh to me. Still though, good on Picard for figuring it out, i don't know that a less patient captain would have emerged with a friendship the way Picard did.

Connor Fallon

2024-12-02 20:12:56 +0000 UTC

A premise, which by all means probably seems ludicrous on paper, turns into one of the most unexpected and rewarding episodes of the series. The quality of Patrick Stewart's acting merged with the nobility of Picard, alongside music that should be a guest star in the credits themselves enhance what could have been another lame campfire scene ending with 'row, row, row your boat.' The lighting and camera work were perfect, and I felt Paul Winfield's performance light-years above what he had to work with in 'Wrath of Khan.' One of the best scenes in the entire franchise.

David Dixon

2024-12-02 20:10:50 +0000 UTC

Josh and Alex in the basement, Sokath their eyes open!!! Lots of memes from this one but This is everything Star Trek should be. S.

Phil Ken Sebben

2024-12-02 19:57:35 +0000 UTC

In Contagion you have the sci-fi concept of rebooting from a restore partition, and in this one you have the future sci-fi example of "just Google it"

JGoss

2024-12-02 19:54:23 +0000 UTC

I think this is a good episode but it wouldn't even make my top 10. I also find it strange that a lot of people suggest using it to introduce star trek to people. If you haven't experienced how the universal translator works in other episodes, it loses a lot of its oomph imo. It's also a little ridiculous that Picard could figure out in a couple days what Starfleet couldn't despite previous attempts to communicate with them over the last century according to the episode. Don't get me wrong, this is a good B+ for me with a nice message, but I don't think it's mind-blowing like it's often made out to be. The new jacket almost makes it an A episode though.

Wrestling With Gaming

2024-12-02 19:54:01 +0000 UTC

Shaka, when Terrell fell...(again).

David Wayne Fox

2024-12-02 19:51:10 +0000 UTC

When people come to you in the future in general conversation and you want to sneak in Star Trek quotes into general conversations, refer back to this one. It’s a great way to confuse phone scammers when you reply with Darmok and Jalad at tenagra, Sinder his eyes red etc

LonghillAndy

2024-12-02 19:49:23 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh, their pronunciations questionable.

Ally Roth

2024-12-02 19:45:13 +0000 UTC

Top 10 of the series - and one that's proven oddly prescient for 1991 with humanity now communicating in memes... "Leo DiCaprio - his glass raised". "A couple, the boyfriend distracted - the girlfriend shocked." "The dog in the flaming room, his eyes wide, his face optimistic..."

The Ninth Doctor

2024-12-02 19:44:25 +0000 UTC

A favorite of many fans, including me. The captain’s jacket appears for the first time. Paul Winfield nails it as Captain Dathon. I love how the alien language was used. About time with all of these aliens we don’t have the universal translator to completely fall back on.

Collin Freeman

2024-12-02 19:41:33 +0000 UTC

Fake Josh! When the walls fell!

Andrew Duffy

2024-12-02 19:40:25 +0000 UTC

Amazing S-tier episode for me with some great moments and a great showing that the universal translator doesn't always work perfectly in all situations

Eric Traylor

2024-12-02 19:38:05 +0000 UTC

This is the episode that I show to people to introduce them to TNG. Fantastic episode without being too much to digest. It also got me interested in the epic of Gilgamesh.

BN13

2024-12-02 19:37:56 +0000 UTC

Since you guys will be watching the HD remaster, you won't experience the infamous effects snafu of the Enterprise firing phasers out of the torpedo bay, which they fixed in this version.

JGoss

2024-12-02 19:37:43 +0000 UTC

"Josh and Alex on the internet, their standards held high." Translation: this is a great episode of Star Trek

Moonlander

2024-12-02 19:37:27 +0000 UTC

Just because you speak the same language as someone doesn’t mean you understand what they are saying. And the alien captain is a true hero

Jeffrey

2024-12-02 19:36:48 +0000 UTC

"Alex, his eyes red, his Fireball empty"(Tamarian for hungover) Despite the obvious issues with a language made up exclusively of metaphors, I do love this episode. Sure, kidnapping Picard and putting both captains in mortal danger isn't the best approach, but it says a lot that they were willing to go to such lengths just to form a connection. Darmok speaks to a lot of core Star Trek principles, and Picard is a great storyteller.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-12-02 19:36:15 +0000 UTC

Whatever you want to rate this, jack it up one extra rating for Paul Winfield.

Paul Hess

2024-12-02 19:32:00 +0000 UTC

Just TRY not speaking in metaphor to one another, going forward 😂. What a lesson on communication between two beings that don’t speak the same language. Yet, they can come together not only to understand each other but also learn to have mutual respect. We can all learn a lot from that, alone.

Andrew F.

2024-12-02 19:31:41 +0000 UTC

Josh, and Alex, in the Memes.

Paul Hess

2024-12-02 19:31:27 +0000 UTC

The guys at Redlettermedia love this episode so much, they ended up buying the mask used for the "invisible" alien on the planet.

THE LORE!!!

2024-12-02 19:30:48 +0000 UTC

One of my all time favorite eps. I just love it. The struggle for communication and the understanding of the importance. AND it is the alien captain that is actually the hero in my opinion. He is the one willing to risk all and final he gave all just to communicate and maybe find friends. The acting to me is awesome as I can feel the frustration of Capt Dathon without understanding a word he is saying. Just great

Prof Moff

2024-12-02 19:23:26 +0000 UTC

My son and I have the inside joke of saying "in winter!" instead of saying "be quiet"

Chris Mickelson

2024-12-02 19:21:27 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh react at Tanagra

Gregory

2024-12-02 19:14:24 +0000 UTC

PATRON TIER LIST TNG S5E2

Comments

Wonderful episode, this is what Star Trek is all about. and my first one as a Patreon member here :)

Just to clarify, I am not commenting just for the purpose of disagreement, as I know plain text could seem impersonal and interpreted as confrontational. That is not my intention. I am genuinely interested in your point of view.

Ah yes, the picardigan

What do you mean? Picard demonstrated this quite clearly with Dathan.

It’s wild that so many people downgrade their rating of this episode because they can’t suspend their disbelief that it would ever NOT work perfectly.

Interesting points. Could you please elaborate how you would demonstrate to the Tamarians that you understood their way of communicating without having the context, so that they would understand you?

I love this one, to me this is how most first contacts go, the universal translator is something i find difficult to suspend my belief about.

Ok, this is one of my 2 favorite episodes of the series. This and another one later this season are my "go to" episodes to show the awesomeness of Trek

Love the jacket, One of the best episodes of the entire series Darmok at Antarctica when his balls froze! Great day to choose to stay in and watch TV

This is like when Kirk had to fight the Gorn. Only Picard has to fight something much, much worse: experimental theater!

DARMOK is a fantastic episode. A language of metaphors? Incredible story opportunity. Definitely an S

Trek predicted the future - Cell phones, the Hitler planet, and communicating entirely in memes. Skibidi brainrot, dog in house fire

Really awesome to see Paul Winfield back from Star Trek 2 in this episode.

He who was my companion, through adventure, and hardship...is gone forever.

This episode would be an A on it's own, imo. But the memes it's generated elevates it to an S.

Shaka, when the walls fell.

And the disrespect shown to his remains by that bum, Mike Stoklasa!

An all-time great Trek episode. I still see so many "Shaka, when the Walls Fell" comments when fans call out some failure or bad idea in the modern version of the franchise.

Yep! Leaving my comment hanging out there with all the relevance of a life jacket in the desert.

@DaiMon Goss The plot idea that the deflector dish can handle way more power than a phaser element is laughable!

@John Luck Except "when the walls fell" refers to disappearing barriers between people, establishing a rapport, a friendship, an understanding.

Respect the Tamarians for risking everything to make it happen.

Their base language is the stories they tell. That's why Picard and Dathon traded stories.

*when the ice cream machine felt.

Don't threaten them with a good time.

There is no indication that any linguists have tried to understand the Tamarian language. Just chance starship encounters in space before.

I appreciate your being very deliberate and conservative with the "S" ratings.

The Tamarians plot armor was too strong for our gallant crew !

🤔 🤪 🤣 🤗 🤯 🤕

I'm not a fan of his not-multicolored coat. Troi's loungewear is a bit much too.

Yes it is a fan favorite.

Their language is acquired by telling stories.

Solid A tier for me. The Enterprise to the rescue at the last second seemed a bit too trite. Great acting and very memorable phrases from this one!

"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" is a phrase that has stuck with me all of these years. Here's a new one: "Darmalex and Joshlad at Clevelanda."

I could not but that does not preclude a race somewhere that could. Open your mind.......

It’s an S-tier for me but I always feel a little sorry for the Beast. Here he is, trying to live his semi-visible life and two jerks barge into his home to shank him as part of a team building exercise ;)

This episode was fantastic! So far a great start to this season!

An interesting thing I saw on YouTube recently was two guys speaking English, but using German syntaxes was very difficult to understand. It reminded me of this episode.

50K? Yikes!

Sometimes thing are so alien that your fantastic technology can't break though. S-tier episode of Star Trek saying we still have a lot to learn.

@Timothy Nikiforovs Probably not, but with a more sophisticated metaphoric language, sure.

Yes. Love it or hate it, it is iconic.

did someone reply about spoilers and then delete it ?

Yes! Yes! Yes! See my similar comments.

Hot take. I respect it. I do think this is just overthinking it a tad. The technicalities of the universal translator and the language itself doesn't degrade any of what the episode is trying to do, and it gets the point across to a wider audience. Plus it's prime meme material :)

The introduction of the iconic jacket… Always enjoyed the idea that they know so little about this race that they can decipher the metaphors despite translating the words correctly. It’s not for everyone tho as I remember mother hating this one.

No idea how to critique this one. Good? Great? Big idea that missed the mark sometimes? Dunno, It’s just iconic. S Tier for that. Inspired that concert t shirt and so many other things since it first aired.

Maybe they did at one time but it evolved into the metaphor language, much like dialect and syntax evolve for us over time.

Patron takes are read after theyve viewed the episode.

My pick for the *best* episode of TNG. This is not the same as saying it's my *favorite* episode; that's not until Season 6. I also think that the campfire scene is the best scene in the entire Star Trek franchise.

Alex and Josh —- as you guys have said before Execution trumps occasional plot holes. This one is dramatic, well acted, well paced, and takes a swing at some novel concepts. S for me, and then make it an S+ for Patrick Stewart's delivery of the Gilgamesh story.

It's not a decent comparison because if I don't understand an internet meme I can simply ask what that means without getting kidnapped and reenacting the meme until I get it.

The debut of the snazzy Picard coat! Always loved this one.

When I haven't watch TNG in years and I think about TNG, this is actually one of the episodes that plays in my head. This one sticks with people. I really enjoy this episode.

I like it but doesn't hit S for me either.

This episode will wind up being in the top 3 for the season.

agree with the comments so far and hope you guys live it- S tier for me, Paul Winfield is awesome and watching Patrick Stewart show his emotions is so moving - happy december while we're at it

I've been a part of those twitch chats where it's a flood of emotes, and you're absolutely right, if you aren't in on it it's basically gibberish

He's 0-2 in making it through Star Trek stories alive.

Alex and Josh at season 5. Zinda, his face bored, his Tier B. Shaka, when the Patron subs fell. (Translation: Rate it below an S and you’ll be getting Wrath of Khan levels of grief for a while from fans.)

I think they're a decent comparison, their entire way of communicating seems to be pretty reliant on context clues.

Darmok and Jalad at McDonalds. Shaka, when the ice cream machine broke. Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Temba, his stomach empty.

This is easily one of the most memorable TNG episodes. It is my #3 episode for the series. It represents quite well what trying to communicate with an alien species would be like, with few common references. Math and music would seem to be the most "universal" languages.

This episode it what Star Trek is all about. However, I will say that some aspects of the language barrier don't make sense. How can you speak in metaphors and not have a base language?

The universal translator did work - all their words were converted into English.

Easy S tier for me. They show this episode in college linguistic courses.

This episode is the first time you see Picard 's new jacket.

Unless you recognize his name in the credits, you won’t recognize Paul Winfield (Captain Dathon) as Captain Terrell from The Wrath of Khan.

Agreed; you have to wonder how the people ever developed their basic grammar and vocabulary… the premise is just linguistically implausible.

Or will it be more like 'B tier, when the walls fell'?

I guess I always assumed they were speaking their own language, and that the universal translator could swap out individual words to English, but it couldn't figure out the phrasing layer.

One wonders if they'll prefer Winfield's performance here to that of the much-praised David Ogden Stiers!

An absolute splatter!!

I forgot she was in this. Dang, she used to be so pretty.

Memes are not an appropriate comparison. Because there are usually enough context clues to still be able to understand them.

One of the best episodes in all of Star Trek.

Sokath, his eyes uncovered!!

Oh, and the Tamarian language has sometimes been compared to the modern use of Internet memes to convey both information and emotion -- information such a person doing something that backfires, and emotion such as disgust for the person's stupidity.

My pick for the best episode of TNG. This is not the same as saying it's my favorite episode; that's not until Season 6. I also think that the campfire scene is the best scene in the entire Star Trek franchise.