Target Audience / UNCUT - The Best of Both Worlds Part 2 (TNG S4E1)

I love the ending with Picard gazing out of the window, he's obviously thinking about what happened to him but also all the lives lost because he was used to kill his own people.

Robert Durant

2024-12-06 14:50:56 +0000 UTC

I feel different about TNG in general, because I was a kid and compared to everything else, that was on TV back then, TNG was pure gold. - Of course, compared to GoT this episode would be even an C-Tier or D-Tier. And it's rational to compare stuff to the best known stuff, but my love will never be broken.

Adam from Germany

2024-09-01 19:44:43 +0000 UTC

Although in this episode Picard/Locutus is back on the ship quite quickly, in the minds of the audience he's been there for 4 months already.

Leyton Jay

2024-08-25 22:35:50 +0000 UTC

The concept being Picard would have never risked the ship to save one person.

Ryan Fisher

2024-08-25 15:47:11 +0000 UTC

I just started watching, and you already won me over with the Like a Prayer and the surprise liquor reveal. I'm in for a good one.

SageGreenGoat

2024-08-25 02:15:35 +0000 UTC

My favorite Wesley moment is when he hesitates and looks back at Riker after he's ordered to set a collision course. The expression on his face was basically "are you fucking serious?" And then he realizes that he's just been ordered to kill everyone on the ship including himself.

Bryce Ronee

2024-08-25 00:33:49 +0000 UTC

Something to consider, now the Borg know that Data isn’t so primitive…

tyranusfan

2024-08-24 14:19:07 +0000 UTC

Its crazy. I remember as a kid I always had a map of the ship in my head as the characters moved about. I had no idea where the holodecks were located (somewhere in the saucer, presumably)...but the bridge, 10 Forward, Engineering, the Shuttle bays...the show takes pains to make these locations obvious and consistent. And yes, the ship is absolutely one of the characters. This is something the creators of New Trek never have been able to figure out. They very obviously don't give a damn about the ship, and the entire production is shallower because of it.

Aaron Wells

2024-08-24 06:03:55 +0000 UTC

remember not only 40 ship, all the crews of the 40 ships too, he killed on a mass level

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-08-24 02:08:12 +0000 UTC

The rescue scene using three vehicles is awesome. Then after locating Locutus, I really love when Warf calls Data for assistance.

Charles Regazzi Jr

2024-08-23 21:27:28 +0000 UTC

I feel like Picard was exhausted and he was already partially woken up by the third connection which allowed him to say "sleep." At this point he's exhausted and for Picard, thats a more natural thing to say when hes feeling all the complex things he's feeling- there's more then just relief there. It works fine for me. I disagree with a lot of this, I saw this as a kid and i feel like the two episodes do work together, yes the riker stuff is the backsetting in the first episode but i saw this as building to what was to come with the borg threat and to me it didnt feel like the threat was ever gone, especially with 40 ships beaten and the cube on its way straight to earth.

paultardspambot .

2024-08-23 11:38:48 +0000 UTC

picards look was supposed to indicate how deeply traumatized he was by the experience even though he played it off when he was initially disconnected

paultardspambot .

2024-08-23 10:59:37 +0000 UTC

there tech is advanced enough to be able to remove the implants

paultardspambot .

2024-08-23 10:57:11 +0000 UTC

Picard was a fast assimilation, and a unique one otherwise he would be more of a danger but he lacks borg nanites so hes not a threat and the borg don't see the lost of him as a big deal

paultardspambot .

2024-08-23 10:39:57 +0000 UTC

the saucer section is the saucer. On the battle bridge, they were pointing out the saucer section was an easy target byt the borg choose to ignore it because they saw it as unimportant. They had gotten what they wanted from Picard, after assimilating his knowledge the individual drone Locutus was not of importance and they figured this was an attempt by Riker to stall them from heading to Earth.

paultardspambot .

2024-08-23 10:37:49 +0000 UTC

They each had different phasers that each had 3 or so shots before the borg adapted.

Shawn Indigo

2024-08-23 10:36:30 +0000 UTC

I dont disagree with that sentiment. I still also prefer to think of the enterprises as they main character tying star trek shows together

Derek Orr

2024-08-23 04:32:31 +0000 UTC

I get the gripe about the resolution to the cliffhanger. I suppose you could say it sort of undermines Riker's decision to fire by having his action rendered completely ineffective. I do think the second Borg ship idea doesn't work though. I feel like that kind of surprise reveal would need to have been set up in part one. Otherwise it would just come off as another convenience. Maybe a better idea (in hindsight) would be for part one to either end before knowing if Riker would fire, or better yet end after the weapon fails and the Borg have already resumed their coarse to Earth.

Paul Noad

2024-08-23 04:05:15 +0000 UTC

That wasn't full body make-up. Patrick Stewart is English. They are naturally that pale.

Regan

2024-08-23 01:42:12 +0000 UTC

Fireball timeeeee!!!!!!

SonicHiggs

2024-08-23 01:37:50 +0000 UTC

You’re right, we forgot about both of those things

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-08-22 22:28:51 +0000 UTC

The Fireball reveal at the beginning was one of your PEAK moments, Target Audience. I literally did not expect that!

StonyD

2024-08-22 21:14:03 +0000 UTC

Y'all seem to have forgotten about the first season episode "Arsenal of Freedom" which features both saucer separation and Beverly talking about living on a small colony with her grandmother as a child

Cirk Bejnar

2024-08-22 20:46:05 +0000 UTC

Exactly. It's about misdirection.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-08-22 20:36:04 +0000 UTC

Maybe “main character” is not the best description for the hero ships. I think “home” works better. The stories and characters turn these environments from just ships, into homes with history and heart.

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-08-22 20:28:48 +0000 UTC

Right. I saw the battle and rescue more as “let’s go with a plan Locutus knows about, but we’ll switch it up to trick him” rather than letting him go.

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-08-22 20:25:51 +0000 UTC

The whole conceit about Riker having to let go of Picard, came through a bit thin with simply changing scrambler codes and using the saucer as a decoy while sending a shuttle.

Derek Orr

2024-08-22 20:04:09 +0000 UTC

fair...I guess I just dont connect that environment with being the reason why the ships are a main character etc. Like I didn't need to have that stuff to feel like we lost a main character in Star Trek 3

Derek Orr

2024-08-22 20:02:04 +0000 UTC

While I can understand the criticisms that put this episode a bit below part 1; that Picard's rescue was rather rushed, that the borg were defeated by a hacking MacGuffin, and the anticlimactic conclusion to "Mr. Worf, fire", I still think BOBW is an excellent episode. Obviously, they couldn't just destroy the cube and win from the start, and it was needed to drive home that Picard's knowledge and experience has been turned against them, which of course also laid the groundwork for that excellent scene with Guinan. As truncated as the rescue of Picard may have been, I do think it was very well thought out from a writing perspective. My only little gripe is after the rescue the borg ship is just sitting there. You may think they're not firing on the Enterprise because they don't want to kill Locutus, but they DID try to destroy the shuttle with Locutus on it, so that doesn't work. Originally, they were going to give Locutus a prosthetic hand with fully mechanical fingers, and Data was going to basically rip most of the arm off. Picard would then have had an artificial arm for the rest of the series with a lighter skin tone, I guess somewhat similar to Data's skin. I guess it was ultimately cheaper to use one of the existing borg arm prosthetics, the same as the first borg we saw in Q Who I believe. Also I doubt Patrick wanted the hassle of extra makeup every day. I get the criticism that it seems a little nonchalant for Picard to go from saying he remembers "everything" to giving Riker a pat on the shoulder for his command skills. But I think that's why the last scene works so well. I'm no expert on PTSD, but as I understand it doesn't always necessarily hit you right away. I can see how in the moment, Picard is more relieved to have his individuality and his life back and that the cube is destroyed and Earth is safe. But in that last scene when things have quieted down and the reports have been filed and he's had the implants removed, it finally hits how close the Federation came to complete destruction. Complete destruction at his hands. Perhaps he also realizes, horrifyingly, that the Borg are still out there, and they may have to do this all over again.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-08-22 19:39:23 +0000 UTC

Doug is a legend

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-08-22 18:40:35 +0000 UTC

I think that's what makes them so unique, they're an entirely different generation of Trek fan, they never grew up in the same environment of technical manuals and wargaming and strategy and statistics and design and everything else that falls under the original style of science-fiction nerd. Like they've said, they can always take or leave the science-fiction part of it.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-08-22 16:51:43 +0000 UTC

Did you guys notice that in neither episode does Shelby ever get another name? They don't even give any context that indicates if it's her first, last, or only name (like Oprah or The Rock).

Jeffrey P

2024-08-22 16:46:28 +0000 UTC

I dont think josh and alex will particularly care either lol

Derek Orr

2024-08-22 16:26:18 +0000 UTC

Exactly. And really the Enterprise is treated as a main character

Derek Orr

2024-08-22 16:25:20 +0000 UTC

It is kinda unique how much they are fans, but seem to retain or care so little about the ships and make up of the fleet and federation etc

Derek Orr

2024-08-22 16:23:21 +0000 UTC

Josh and Alex get something wrong about starships and everybody LOSES THEIR MINDS, chapter 47.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-08-22 16:00:55 +0000 UTC

puts tape on glasses

JD Nevesytrof

2024-08-22 16:00:02 +0000 UTC

"He went through a very traumatic experience." Yes he did. And they will address this not only next episode, but in the future as well. I love the fact that by the ST:TNG era continuity has become an actual thing, and that character growth happens not only across a series, but across MULTIPLE series and movies. Anyway, great reaction guys!

Paul O'Neal

2024-08-22 15:48:20 +0000 UTC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_359

Joshua Langweil

2024-08-22 15:02:12 +0000 UTC

This is correct. To TA: the main bridge is at the very top/center of the saucer section, which is what Shelby was commanding. Riker was commanding the battle bridge, which is in the secondary hull/drive part of the ship (where the warp core is). Most of the power from the ship comes from the warp core, which is why Riker knew Locutus would ignore the saucer section and focus on the drive section. The wild card thrown at Locutus was the "anti-matter spread" from the saucer section that confused the Borg just long enough to get Data and Worf through the transporter shielding and onto the cube. The writing is actually quite excellent in the whole rescue sequence.

Lovok

2024-08-22 14:52:02 +0000 UTC

100%. 40 ships. It can assumed from Part 2 that most of the fleet was lost. Assuming an average of 250 people per ship going into battle, potential of ~10,000 lives lost. This battle leaves a huge mark on the Star Trek franchise.

Lovok

2024-08-22 14:43:49 +0000 UTC

I always wondered if they grabbed Picard so early to show how ineffective the Borg are as individuals? It is a bit more comedic than I would like but without that hive mind and all the tech... It's just a person and kind of falls apart without the hive mind. Even at 12 I thought it was a bit unbelievable that Picard was himself so quicky, I am with you there for sure. Hindsight is 20/20 I liked all the alternative ideas you had about the beginning of this episode.

s0rd3z

2024-08-22 14:36:33 +0000 UTC

From Doug Drexler's Facebook about Picard's tear "I'm one of the few people who can claim to have made the captain of the Enterprise cry. That's right! I'm the guy! Here's the scene; Supine on his Borg assembly table, Picard is in the process of becoming Locutus. Cybernetic implants are being drilled into his skull. His individuality is being submerged into the Collective. The camera pushes to his eye... a single tear wells and migrates down his cheek. Except there were no tears to migrate. Patrick was dry as the Mojave Desert. He could not generate that pivotal and pitiful wet trail of a tear. Today, you'd fix it in post, but back then, said tear needed to happen on stage, and on command. The call goes out! Drexler! Drexler! Drexler! Somehow, it's my job to make the captain cry. But I know what to do! In my makeup kit I have a mentholated Vicks nasal inhaler. In a flash, I drill a hole in the back of the tube, lean over Patrick, and blow thru it directly into his eye. Predictably the menthol caused a burning sensation, his eye welled with tears, and I was a hero! Take that, you big captain! Go cry to mama!"

Mike Rogers

2024-08-22 14:26:21 +0000 UTC

I removed the link and posted the story of the tear exclusively.

Jonathan Llyr

2024-08-22 13:48:55 +0000 UTC

We never click on any links

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-08-22 13:43:16 +0000 UTC

JD you have to remember

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-08-22 13:42:37 +0000 UTC

I love the way Riker looks down in what is probably a moment of survivor's guilt. Would that crew have lived if he had taken command or would he be dead as well?

Jeffrey P

2024-08-22 13:26:28 +0000 UTC

If anything, Starfleet is going to want Riker to keep an eye on him.

Jeffrey P

2024-08-22 13:22:51 +0000 UTC

And it's the one time that there's a perfectly good in-universe reason for the trope of being the only ship that can respond. They're all that's LEFT in this region.

Jeffrey P

2024-08-22 13:18:46 +0000 UTC

And tiny. Despite it's proximity, Wolf 359 isn't even bright enough to be seen by the naked eye on most nights.

Jeffrey P

2024-08-22 13:15:31 +0000 UTC

The Klingon Empire will never yield!

Brendon Waldron

2024-08-22 13:05:00 +0000 UTC

Which i believe has spoilers from later in the franchise unfortunately.

Ca$hWednesday

2024-08-22 12:36:51 +0000 UTC

As someone who got a bit into the ships and technical stuff from sources like that Technical Manual, it's funny to watch people who are into the show itself and ignore that stuff. It's fine to not be into that because it's just extra details that aren't part of the story, But seems funny to think you haven't realized after 3 seasons the bridge is the top of the ship. Note basically the viewscreen is at the front of that bridge-dome, while the conference room wraps around the back of the dome. Those figures you can see in the rear window at the end of the opening credits are in the conference room. Also, Ten Forward is at the very front edge of the saucer. In case you wondered. :)

Joe Concepts

2024-08-22 12:30:27 +0000 UTC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_359

Joe Concepts

2024-08-22 12:25:37 +0000 UTC

S, when they ask Picard what he remembered…………… the way he said “everything” You could feel it .

Just another Red Shirt

2024-08-22 11:52:03 +0000 UTC

When Picard looks out the window at the end, looking at Earth, I always took it to be him realizing he's home.... and he almost destroyed Earth, of all places. Everything that is human.

Tom Occhipinti

2024-08-22 11:47:01 +0000 UTC

Still getting the phaser retuning wrong 😤

Mikachu

2024-08-22 11:16:22 +0000 UTC

I think there's a wee bit of overlap between composure and picard's..experience of what happened. I've seen someone struggling with PTSD and they had that same kind of 'vacant stare' at times. Best season opener (so far?) though! :)

Mara

2024-08-22 10:41:19 +0000 UTC

If I had a nickel for every time that happened to me...

Jovet

2024-08-22 09:52:58 +0000 UTC

@Dor No. Not that type of relationship. Can't discuss more—spoilers.

Jovet

2024-08-22 09:48:55 +0000 UTC

@StealthMomo The comment author could edit or delete his comment, but I don't think that's necessary. A&J just shouldn't click on it right now. Minor spoilers but still spoilers. I enjoyed reading it, though.

Jovet

2024-08-22 09:47:17 +0000 UTC

Oh boy it's happening. Now, what i consider "core TNG", starts. I love season 3 as much as anyone, and it has some of the most iconic episodes, but as for me, i have the most love and nostalgia for seasons 4-6. Can't wait ^-^

JHVJ

2024-08-22 09:09:46 +0000 UTC

Are you SURE we've seen the last of the old uniforms? 😉

Ee'char

2024-08-22 08:55:17 +0000 UTC

I’d agree I never felt that it was ambiguous it seemed clear it’s the full weight of what has happened to him sinking in.

Darren Seal

2024-08-22 08:32:35 +0000 UTC

It also establishes when they take "technology" that also includes people along with their knowledge and skills, not just equipment as was initially believed by Starfleet.

Lincynity

2024-08-22 08:27:49 +0000 UTC

No, it really wasn't.

Lincynity

2024-08-22 08:20:51 +0000 UTC

It's noteworthy when the Borg attack they aren't leaving bodies behind. Maybe Riker got it wrong. Maybe those babies weren't bred from Borg, but we're snatched from planets?

Lincynity

2024-08-22 08:00:50 +0000 UTC

I love the lore around Wolf 359. There are tons of videos that go into detail regarding the specific ships lost and tactics used, but unfortunately digging too deep might mean spoiling other Star Trek shows. Still, it’s probably my favorite piece of Star Trek lore/history.

ThePatron

2024-08-22 07:58:32 +0000 UTC

The fleet gathered by Hansen was 40 ships, none were left spaceworthy and no-one responded to the Enterprise when it arrived. I don't think you really grasped the scale of this event. There's more detail on it in Beta canon (expanded media and lore) but I'm not sure if that counts as a spoiler.

Lincynity

2024-08-22 07:56:34 +0000 UTC

I put Alex in my B tier 🙄

Phil Ken Sebben

2024-08-22 07:56:28 +0000 UTC

On you tube is a fully updated version of the battle of wolf 359

Nathan Daly

2024-08-22 07:30:58 +0000 UTC

I Appreciate you all getting us this a bit earlier than expected.

Timothy Keck

2024-08-22 07:12:13 +0000 UTC

Yeah Starfleet lost like 40 ships and thousands of people at Wolf 359. (Which is a real star that about 8 light years from Earth)

Brian

2024-08-22 07:05:04 +0000 UTC

@Jovet Is there any way to remove it?

StealthMomo

2024-08-22 06:25:33 +0000 UTC

Is there any way to delete it?

StealthMomo

2024-08-22 06:24:27 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh should not read that article yet.

Jovet

2024-08-22 06:23:40 +0000 UTC

Locutus was taken directly to Sick Bay when he was brought on board, and then put unconscious again by Beverly and then taken to Data's Laboratory. He wasn't freely wondering around the ship.

Jovet

2024-08-22 06:13:15 +0000 UTC

Was never ambiguous to me.

Jovet

2024-08-22 06:07:27 +0000 UTC

Yes, but the ambiguous part is, is it PTSD or is he still Borg?

startrekiborg

2024-08-22 05:52:14 +0000 UTC

I love having the tier list ranking right after the episode, and written down first so as to not influence each other prematurely.

Paul

2024-08-22 05:52:04 +0000 UTC

57:54 There were over 40 starships at Wolf 359. Much more than eleven.

Jovet

2024-08-22 05:41:03 +0000 UTC

57:42 You might want to watch the Borg sequences from "Q Who" again. The dialogue in this episode here is spot on: Data: “But as you may recall on several occasions, we have witnessed the Borg removing key circuits from injured comrades, no doubt separating them from the group consciousness.”

Jovet

2024-08-22 05:36:24 +0000 UTC

The ending of this one never felt ambiguous to me. PTSD is a thing.

Jovet

2024-08-22 05:28:40 +0000 UTC

29:15 They are on the Battle Bridge. The Battle Bridge is in the secondary hull (the Drive Section). The Main Bridge is on the very-obviously-shaped Saucer section.

Jovet

2024-08-22 05:25:52 +0000 UTC

24:35 Nope, Geordi separated the ship when he was in command in "Arsenal of Freedom."

Jovet

2024-08-22 05:25:36 +0000 UTC

Whole family was huddled in front of the TV. Loved it. The Wolf 359 incident became canon for other venues. I remember the computer game Star Trek Borg, which is set on a ship that was there. It was hailed at the time as an Interactive game, with live actors on a set and you have to deal with the Borg. And Q is your guide. Loved that game.

Firekrys FWO

2024-08-22 05:23:31 +0000 UTC

Brilliant ending guys 😂

Jeff Lawson

2024-08-22 05:13:15 +0000 UTC

So without spoiling any details, this episode ends up being the 9/11 of Star Trek. As in, what came before was widely regarded as a golden age for the Federation, but after this things would never be the same. This is not apparent immediately, but, well, you'll see. Also in a meta sense this event is an explanation for why early TNG has so many arrogant types and why even our mains felt so... condescending and preachy for those early seasons. Though this was a battle won, it had shown that the Federation was not as invincible and high and mighty as they thought they were. In other words... It did EXACTLY what Q intended when he introduced them to the Borg back in Season 2.

Joshua Hartman

2024-08-22 05:11:59 +0000 UTC

I recently read Patrick Stewart's Autobiography and he mentioned that between Seasons 3 and 4 was when he and the cast were starting to be recognized by people watching the show, and he and his family were surprised when a random person driving past them yelled out at him (paraphrasing here) "You ruined our summer, Picard!"

Joshua Hartman

2024-08-22 05:06:48 +0000 UTC

Cool

StealthMomo

2024-08-22 04:46:57 +0000 UTC

Where did you guys get that the Borg only blew up 11 ships? They gathered 40 ships to fight the cube. Assume each ship has an average crew of 500 (Enterprise has 1018) and that means they used Picard to kill a lot of people, including his friend Admiral Hansen. That’s what that final shot is all about. He remembers everything.

Column Meanie

2024-08-22 04:45:06 +0000 UTC

This is the first time I have say, I have to defend the episode for being from WHEN it is and how it was made. Budget will not allow it to do anything more than blow up the borg cube once lol. LIMITED budget y’all.

Sixto

2024-08-22 04:42:16 +0000 UTC

Did you notice that all the background extras were wearing updated uniforms? We’ve finally seen the last of the S1-S2 costumes! The regular bridge is on top of the saucer. The battle bridge is on the star-drive section - and is a redress of the movie-era bridge set. One of the turbolifts on the main bridge is supposed to be an emergency express to the battle bridge. Love the single continuous shot of Worf & Data in the shuttlecraft as you see them out the window clear the shuttle bay and fly towards the Borg cube.

Matt Everkoul

2024-08-22 04:23:20 +0000 UTC

Imagine if TNG had been serialized and not episodic. This two-parter would have been stretched to a whole season, with awful filler episodes, bizarrely slow progress, milking the concept beyond dry. The episodic constraint to wrap up and move on keeps things tight. Being left wanting more is perhaps the better problem to have.

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-08-22 04:18:40 +0000 UTC

I have to admit, I was getting a bit scared there for a while. It's nice to see you have not decided to go sober, and the cinnamon juice is back. We missed you. :)

startrekiborg

2024-08-22 04:08:25 +0000 UTC

Season 4 is when the show finally baked the bread

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-08-22 04:07:45 +0000 UTC

The only thing designed to channel that much raw power, according to the technobabble

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-08-22 04:07:07 +0000 UTC

Also the last time we saw Geordi in command

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-08-22 04:05:36 +0000 UTC

Wolf 359 was an inside job Transparent aluminum can't be melted by Borg tractor beams

#MaxwellDidNothingWrong

2024-08-22 04:04:25 +0000 UTC

I would say an "in story" reason for not really showing their grief or them adjusting is that THEY didn't have the time. They have to focus and deal with saving the Federation working as fast as they can. They just HAVE to focus on their tasks with no time to spare.

Joe Concepts

2024-08-22 03:59:49 +0000 UTC

I say, too, that I didn't mind that quick cliffhanger resolution because it makes perfect sense in the story. They didn't cheat or anything it didn't work because Picard already knows. And it also serves to show he has not just been turned into a drone, they're using Picard's experiences. Maybe they wouldn't have destroyed all those ships without that.

Joe Concepts

2024-08-22 03:56:00 +0000 UTC

🍞

James Bottas

2024-08-22 03:25:15 +0000 UTC

Here's my idea, Data and Worf beam in during the distraction, then the Cube immediately warps off again toward Earth. Riker concludes they're lost. The Enterprise follows, an hour later the cube is in Earth orbit annihilating the defense satellites or whatever, Data and Worf suddenly surprise Locutus while all covered in Borg grease blood, they grab him and from there it's five minutes to hook Data up and implant the sleep code

JD Nevesytrof

2024-08-22 03:16:33 +0000 UTC

Watching it when it first aired, I would have given it a C because I thought it was such a let down from part 1. Now, I can move it up to a low B. Also we have seen the saucer separate another time. When Geordi was in charge of the ship at the planet welling weapon systems, he left and separated the saucer before coming back to fight

Jeffrey

2024-08-22 03:10:29 +0000 UTC

The plan is to be 1 video on YouTube as well

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-08-22 03:10:24 +0000 UTC

If Part 1 was Empire (S) then Part 2 is Jedi (A).

Stephen Wright

2024-08-22 03:07:23 +0000 UTC

Does Picard not get a +1 for Guinan's comments on their... relationship?

Dor

2024-08-22 03:02:24 +0000 UTC

Yooo, I fuckin knew it. Not sure why.

Juan Tutrífor

2024-08-22 02:58:40 +0000 UTC

The Borg are the first character to fuck all of Starfleet without even buying them dinner. I think they deserve a boost.

Juan Tutrífor

2024-08-22 02:57:21 +0000 UTC

Interesting take on the opening of the episode. For me, it has never felt like the cliffhanger didn't matter - the resolution to the cliffhanger was learning that the Borg have assimilated all of Picard's knowledge - they foresaw the plan and pre-adapted to it. That revelation, that they are now up against all of Picard's wisdom and experience, really drives the rest of the episode, including most of the best scenes - the admiral's speech about Picard, Guinan's message, etc. All of that flows from "Holy shit, that didn't work because Picard was ahead of us." Riker isn't successful until he does some Crazy Shit that Picard would never have done - which, then, Picard comments on once the Borg are destroyed. So yeah, there's my take. The cliffhanger resolution works for me because the reason it fails to blow up the Borg ship then sets the terms for the entire episode. If the weapon surprises the Borg, none of the rest of the episode works or makes sense. I do really wish this was a 3-parter and we got more time to sit with the crew and their grief. Ironically, there are a lot of similarities between BoBW and the BSG S1-S2 transition storyline, and Ronald Moore clearly learns some lessons from BoBW that he applies there.

Dor

2024-08-22 02:57:04 +0000 UTC

I really like the format changes. I must admit I prefer the discussion be in the same video as the reaction. Maybe you'll still split them for YT but if this continued on Patreon at least that'd be great. Also like the Tier ranking pre-discussion. It'll be handy to have and look back on at the end of season and see if anything changed your perspectives along the way. Finally, I like the idea of cordoning off praises and gripes into sections. I'll watch it all but it's always nice having sections to jump to depending on what you're after. Great episode with great dialogue. I love Data and Locutus arm wrestling at that one part. I don't disagree with your gripes. The "it didn't work so moving on" continuation is a bit anticlimactic.. and yes Locutus is brought back to the Enterprise somewhat early and easily. I guess they wanted as much of him in the episode as they could get and there's just not much interaction you can get from him while he's still on the Cube.

James Bottas

2024-08-22 02:51:00 +0000 UTC

I think the “fire” thing not being effective at the beginning works for me because it validates the kidnapping of Picard for being more then “he’s the voice of The Borg”. His abduction is strategic for tactical purposes against The Federation. If it had damaged the cube then the kidnapping would have just been more of a story gimmick IMO.

Christopher Boutwell

2024-08-22 02:43:24 +0000 UTC

The Borg let them take Locutus and spared the Enterprise, because Locutus was made to be sort of an ambassador to humans, hence his name, which is Latin for "Speaker." They just didn't count on Data hacking their system through Locutus.

Scott Reeves

2024-08-22 02:39:11 +0000 UTC

CCP thinks Star Trek is witchcraft!

Aaron Wells

2024-08-22 02:36:35 +0000 UTC

Kirk's Enterprise (NCC-1701) was Constitution Class. From the Motion Picture refit on through to the NCC-1701-A, it was known as a Constitution-Refit. There was actually wreckage of a destroyed Constitution-Refit visible in this episode at Wolf 359. The Enterprise B was an Excelsior Class. The Enterprise C was Ambassador Class. The Enterprise D was Galaxy Class...a really gigantic ship compared to the rest.

Aaron Wells

2024-08-22 02:26:54 +0000 UTC

Since my initial post may have contained small spoilers, I’ve edited it to remove the link and just including the relevant passage from the story of how Doug Drexler made Patrick Stewart shed the tear in the episode. “I’m one of the few people who can claim to have made the captain of the Enterprise cry. It’s in the title! Did you read that? That’s right! I’m the guy! Here’s the scene; Prone on his Borg assembly table, Picard is in the process of becoming Locutus. Cybernetic implants are being drilled into his skull. His individuality is being submerged into the Collective. The camera pushes to his eye… a single tear wells and migrates down his cheek. Except there were no tears to migrate. Patrick was dry as the Mojave desert. He could not generate that pivotal and pitiful wet trail of a tear. Today, you’d fix it in post, but back then, said tear needed to happen on stage, and on command. The call goes out! Drexler! Drexler! Drexler! Somehow it’s my job to make the captain cry. But I know what to do! In my makeup kit I have a mentholated Vicks nasal inhaler. In a flash, I drill a hole in the back of the tube, lean over Patrick, and blow thru it directly into his eye. Predictably the menthol caused a burning sensation, his eye welled with tears, and I was a hero! Take that, you big captain! Go cry to mama!”

Jonathan Llyr

2024-08-22 02:19:46 +0000 UTC

The teaser was shot three months later. If you compare the end of 1 and start of 2, you can see minor differences with hair. Part 1 was shot April 1990. Part 2 was shot July 1990.

JGoss

2024-08-22 02:11:36 +0000 UTC

Josh, I guarantee you Picard's tear was not SFX. That was all Patrick Stewart acting his ass off. And I'd imagine the full body makeup didn't put him off as much as you may think. I have seen some of his theater work and not only is he comfortable with FBM but he is pretty damn ripped for an older dude. (As you will see clearly in one of the upcoming movies). Alex, I had a feeling you would rate Part 2 as lesser than the Part 1. I figured you for A- or B+. For the most part I would have to agree. I remember when it first aired I loved the episode but also felt a bit let down by it. I mean, Part 1 was jacked to 11. Upon reflection, there is no way they could have maintained that momentum, especially after that long a hiatus. Josh, I knew you would like the episode quite a bit. It has all the stuff you love and you focused on the best stuff. Guinan and Riker. Riker's conference room speech, etc. The next episode is the unofficial third part to that two part story. It is, IMHO, better than BoBW Part 2, but could not exist without it. Get ready for some top-tier acting chops and some stellar dialog and character development. No interstellar disaster. No earth-shattering crisis. No stakes at all. Except for the highest stakes...family.

StealthMomo

2024-08-22 02:07:25 +0000 UTC

This episode could have definitely been extended to two hours. I get why it wasn’t for budget reasons but it would have solved most of the issues. This seemed rushed watching it live but on rewatch with a modern lens it has lost some of the power it had originally but I would still give it an A.

Jonathan

2024-08-22 01:59:09 +0000 UTC

Well no change on the bumpin' board. The current and start of the new season sex scoreboard: Riker 6 Troi 3 Data 1 Picard 1 Worf 1 Jordy 1 + 1 I Broccoli 2 i Now we could give the Borg a +1 for what they did to the Feds at Wolf 359. But we won't.

Prof Moff

2024-08-22 01:55:53 +0000 UTC

Yes, "how can he go back". Like being first officer on the Federation flagship is a failure. The man is not afraid to leave, he is where he should be, and he knows it.

Chuck Rice

2024-08-22 01:54:39 +0000 UTC

I thought of it as the utmost embarrassment and ultimate shame not wanting to address it. "I let myself get captured and assimilated; I planned all kinds of terrible things in hopes of conquering the Federation." After all of that, the last thing you feel like doing or saying is addressing the elephant in the room.

Collin Freeman

2024-08-22 01:51:25 +0000 UTC

Love the ending. I think Phil Donahue would have approved.

Collin Freeman

2024-08-22 01:48:21 +0000 UTC

I guess you know what Wolf 359 is now

Eric Singer

2024-08-22 01:44:49 +0000 UTC

Crack out the fireball boys and girls. It's time!!!!!!!!!

Ca$hWednesday

2024-08-22 01:44:47 +0000 UTC

Yes, I can agree that it was an A episode, and I had a feeling you weren't going to like it as much as, hopefully, the next episode, but...well...I can't help that. I'll comment more Sunday. Overall, I'm glad you didn't HATE it, at least.

wildhunt1973

2024-08-22 01:43:31 +0000 UTC

If they loved this two-parter, they're gonna love the seven-parter in season 9.

Evan Guthrie

2024-08-22 01:39:23 +0000 UTC

lol i have never seen that intro before!!! Locutus looking like Hollywood Hogan has arrived! 49:20 mark

Rod Gallow

2024-08-22 01:38:07 +0000 UTC

Part 3 next. And if at least one of you doesn't get a little bit weepy I think you will hear it from some of us. Not me, but others.

KatWithAttitude

2024-08-22 01:34:36 +0000 UTC

Wow, let's goooooooo!!

Dan Halstead

2024-08-22 01:33:29 +0000 UTC

@25ish Worf punching Locutus back into a Picard was a close second solution in the initial drafts 🤣

Juan Tutrífor

2024-08-22 01:23:10 +0000 UTC

Aw, shitson! I guess I need to wake up and watch this. Blows the dust off himself Here we go, bitches.

Steven Johnson

2024-08-22 01:15:34 +0000 UTC

It would have survived if Riker had taken command. The bread gives a 50% buff to shielding

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-08-22 01:15:05 +0000 UTC

we last saw a saucer separation in season 1 The Arsenal of Freedom

Narnman

2024-08-22 01:14:11 +0000 UTC

Alex and Josh…The ending….Picard has been through a very traumatic ordeal, but seems ok now. Everything seems back to normal. But he is about to drink his tea and stops. No one is around. He is not okay.

Chris S.

2024-08-22 01:13:56 +0000 UTC

I can see that, but part of me always thought it was also Picard's relief that they won and he got his humanity back being washed away by the terrible thought that everything that just happened might only be a warmup act.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-08-22 01:13:35 +0000 UTC

39 Ships total...

Preston M

2024-08-22 01:03:46 +0000 UTC

I personally saw that ending as Picard looking at Earth in a "what have I done/what was I about to do?" kind of way. But it's certainly ambiguous enough that you can make it be whatever you want.

THE LORE!!!

2024-08-22 00:58:36 +0000 UTC

The TOS Enterprise was a Constitution class ship. The Enterprise D is a Galaxy class.

Collin Freeman

2024-08-22 00:48:04 +0000 UTC

Pray

Fishing Trip

2024-08-22 00:46:45 +0000 UTC

A nice surprise to come home from a hospital visit and find this reaction a day early.

Adam Zey

2024-08-22 00:45:30 +0000 UTC

The bridge is the dome at the top of the saucer section, so when you see the battle bridge that is on the drive section.

John Rose

2024-08-22 00:38:51 +0000 UTC

We did

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-08-22 00:34:04 +0000 UTC

To answer your question about filming, they did not film anything from this episode prior to this season. Michael Pillar wrote the characters into a hole at the end of Part 1 that he did not know how they would get out of it, and partly didn't care because he wasn't sure if he would be coming back.

Collin Freeman

2024-08-22 00:31:51 +0000 UTC

That place where the beam fires is the main deflector dish that Wesley mentions in the briefing.

Collin Freeman

2024-08-22 00:28:10 +0000 UTC

Notice the Melbourne was the ship Riker was about to take command of.

Geoffrey Linehan

2024-08-22 00:25:02 +0000 UTC

From an episode guidebook I read, they didn’t have a script for part two. The summer was spent trying to figure out how to become unstuck from the climax.

Geoffrey Linehan

2024-08-22 00:21:38 +0000 UTC

Amen 🙏

Ramen Nudels

2024-08-22 00:19:52 +0000 UTC

WOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Firekrys FWO

2024-08-22 00:16:03 +0000 UTC

I have been so patiently waiting for this so that I can continue my TNG rewatch with you gents!

Wyeth Dion

2024-08-22 00:11:46 +0000 UTC

AAANNNNND we’re back! 😁 Buckle up boys. This isn’t an S-Tier season but it IS an A-Tier season. I think you will be pleased by the end.

StealthMomo

2024-08-22 00:09:49 +0000 UTC

Finally!!! Only took 25 days for you to get back to watching, felt like a lifetime!!!

Michael Hills

2024-08-22 00:08:46 +0000 UTC

A day early again?! Let's F'king go!

Karl Dutton

2024-08-22 00:08:09 +0000 UTC

10/10 parody at the beginning 🤣

Juan Tutrífor

2024-08-22 00:06:22 +0000 UTC

DAMMIT JIM. I’m in China right now and can’t log in to my Paramount! 🥲 I’ll have to save this for when I get back next week.

Mister Hope

2024-08-22 00:03:38 +0000 UTC

SWEET! Gonna watch this right now!

Brian Moore

2024-08-22 00:01:42 +0000 UTC

UNCUT - The Best of Both Worlds Part 2 (TNG S4E1) | Star Trek Journey 182

Comments

I love the ending with Picard gazing out of the window, he's obviously thinking about what happened to him but also all the lives lost because he was used to kill his own people.

Although in this episode Picard/Locutus is back on the ship quite quickly, in the minds of the audience he's been there for 4 months already.

The concept being Picard would have never risked the ship to save one person.

I just started watching, and you already won me over with the Like a Prayer and the surprise liquor reveal. I'm in for a good one.

My favorite Wesley moment is when he hesitates and looks back at Riker after he's ordered to set a collision course. The expression on his face was basically "are you fucking serious?" And then he realizes that he's just been ordered to kill everyone on the ship including himself.

Something to consider, now the Borg know that Data isn’t so primitive…

remember not only 40 ship, all the crews of the 40 ships too, he killed on a mass level

The rescue scene using three vehicles is awesome. Then after locating Locutus, I really love when Warf calls Data for assistance.

picards look was supposed to indicate how deeply traumatized he was by the experience even though he played it off when he was initially disconnected

there tech is advanced enough to be able to remove the implants

Picard was a fast assimilation, and a unique one otherwise he would be more of a danger but he lacks borg nanites so hes not a threat and the borg don't see the lost of him as a big deal

They each had different phasers that each had 3 or so shots before the borg adapted.

I dont disagree with that sentiment. I still also prefer to think of the enterprises as they main character tying star trek shows together

That wasn't full body make-up. Patrick Stewart is English. They are naturally that pale.

Fireball timeeeee!!!!!!

You’re right, we forgot about both of those things

The Fireball reveal at the beginning was one of your PEAK moments, Target Audience. I literally did not expect that!

Y'all seem to have forgotten about the first season episode "Arsenal of Freedom" which features both saucer separation and Beverly talking about living on a small colony with her grandmother as a child

Exactly. It's about misdirection.

Maybe “main character” is not the best description for the hero ships. I think “home” works better. The stories and characters turn these environments from just ships, into homes with history and heart.

Right. I saw the battle and rescue more as “let’s go with a plan Locutus knows about, but we’ll switch it up to trick him” rather than letting him go.

The whole conceit about Riker having to let go of Picard, came through a bit thin with simply changing scrambler codes and using the saucer as a decoy while sending a shuttle.

fair...I guess I just dont connect that environment with being the reason why the ships are a main character etc. Like I didn't need to have that stuff to feel like we lost a main character in Star Trek 3

Doug is a legend

Did you guys notice that in neither episode does Shelby ever get another name? They don't even give any context that indicates if it's her first, last, or only name (like Oprah or The Rock).

I dont think josh and alex will particularly care either lol

Exactly. And really the Enterprise is treated as a main character

It is kinda unique how much they are fans, but seem to retain or care so little about the ships and make up of the fleet and federation etc

Josh and Alex get something wrong about starships and everybody LOSES THEIR MINDS, chapter 47.

*puts tape on glasses*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_359

100%. 40 ships. It can assumed from Part 2 that most of the fleet was lost. Assuming an average of 250 people per ship going into battle, potential of ~10,000 lives lost. This battle leaves a huge mark on the Star Trek franchise.

I removed the link and posted the story of the tear exclusively.

We never click on any links

JD you have to remember

I love the way Riker looks down in what is probably a moment of survivor's guilt. Would that crew have lived if he had taken command or would he be dead as well?

If anything, Starfleet is going to want Riker to keep an eye on him.

And it's the one time that there's a perfectly good in-universe reason for the trope of being the only ship that can respond. They're all that's LEFT in this region.

And tiny. Despite it's proximity, Wolf 359 isn't even bright enough to be seen by the naked eye on most nights.

The Klingon Empire will never yield!

Which i believe has spoilers from later in the franchise unfortunately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_359

S, when they ask Picard what he remembered…………… the way he said “everything” You could feel it .

When Picard looks out the window at the end, looking at Earth, I always took it to be him realizing he's home.... and he almost destroyed Earth, of all places. Everything that is human.

Still getting the phaser retuning wrong 😤

I think there's a wee bit of overlap between composure and picard's..experience of what happened. I've seen someone struggling with PTSD and they had that same kind of 'vacant stare' at times. Best season opener (so far?) though! :)

If I had a nickel for every time that happened to me...

@Dor No. Not that type of relationship. Can't discuss more—spoilers.

@StealthMomo The comment author could edit or delete his comment, but I don't think that's necessary. A&J just shouldn't click on it right now. Minor spoilers but still spoilers. I enjoyed reading it, though.

Oh boy it's happening. Now, what i consider "core TNG", starts. I love season 3 as much as anyone, and it has some of the most iconic episodes, but as for me, i have the most love and nostalgia for seasons 4-6. Can't wait ^-^

Are you SURE we've seen the last of the old uniforms? 😉

I’d agree I never felt that it was ambiguous it seemed clear it’s the full weight of what has happened to him sinking in.

It also establishes when they take "technology" that also includes people along with their knowledge and skills, not just equipment as was initially believed by Starfleet.

No, it really wasn't.

It's noteworthy when the Borg attack they aren't leaving bodies behind. Maybe Riker got it wrong. Maybe those babies weren't bred from Borg, but we're snatched from planets?

I love the lore around Wolf 359. There are tons of videos that go into detail regarding the specific ships lost and tactics used, but unfortunately digging too deep might mean spoiling other Star Trek shows. Still, it’s probably my favorite piece of Star Trek lore/history.

The fleet gathered by Hansen was 40 ships, none were left spaceworthy and no-one responded to the Enterprise when it arrived. I don't think you really grasped the scale of this event. There's more detail on it in Beta canon (expanded media and lore) but I'm not sure if that counts as a spoiler.

I put Alex in my B tier 🙄

On you tube is a fully updated version of the battle of wolf 359

I Appreciate you all getting us this a bit earlier than expected.

Yeah Starfleet lost like 40 ships and thousands of people at Wolf 359. (Which is a real star that about 8 light years from Earth)

@Jovet Is there any way to remove it?

Is there any way to delete it?

Alex and Josh should not read that article yet.

Locutus was taken directly to Sick Bay when he was brought on board, and then put unconscious again by Beverly and then taken to Data's Laboratory. He wasn't freely wondering around the ship.

Was never ambiguous to me.

Yes, but the ambiguous part is, is it PTSD or is he still Borg?

I love having the tier list ranking right after the episode, and written down first so as to not influence each other prematurely.

57:54 There were over 40 starships at Wolf 359. Much more than eleven.

57:42 You might want to watch the Borg sequences from "Q Who" again. The dialogue in this episode here is spot on: Data: “But as you may recall on several occasions, we have witnessed the Borg removing key circuits from injured comrades, no doubt separating them from the group consciousness.”

The ending of this one never felt ambiguous to me. PTSD is a thing.

29:15 They are on the Battle Bridge. The Battle Bridge is in the secondary hull (the Drive Section). The Main Bridge is on the very-obviously-shaped Saucer section.

24:35 Nope, Geordi separated the ship when he was in command in "Arsenal of Freedom."

Brilliant ending guys 😂

Cool

This is the first time I have say, I have to defend the episode for being from WHEN it is and how it was made. Budget will not allow it to do anything more than blow up the borg cube once lol. LIMITED budget y’all.

I have to admit, I was getting a bit scared there for a while. It's nice to see you have not decided to go sober, and the cinnamon juice is back. We missed you. :)

Season 4 is when the show finally baked the bread

puts tape on glasses

Aw, shitson! I guess I need to wake up and watch this. Blows the dust off himself Here we go, bitches.