PATRON TAKES - Star Trek 181 - The Best of Both Worlds (TNG 3x26)
Added 2024-07-29 14:00:11 +0000 UTCComments
It's totally fair to not consider this to be on your top 5 as far as writing, especially moving forward. This episode for me goes beyond that though. For me this is more a series defining event than merely an episode if that makes sense.
Paul Noad
2024-08-08 04:39:26 +0000 UTCSorry I figured it wasnt a spoiler.
ZRX-89
2024-08-08 00:38:13 +0000 UTCWhy are you speculating on DS9 in a spoiler free comment section
Strife
2024-08-07 21:53:18 +0000 UTCI was too young to remember the cliffhanger I of course knew it left us hanging but I don’t remember the anticipation or anything..
Philbot
2024-08-07 18:10:17 +0000 UTCOHHHH that makes so much sense
ZRX-89
2024-08-06 19:52:28 +0000 UTCIf you did it by timeline, then you'd watch the cold open for DS9, then pause it and watch 2 seasons of TNG, and finally watch the rest of the DS9 pilot. Doesn't seem worth it.
Ian Westcott
2024-08-06 19:38:22 +0000 UTCDS9 starts on Stardate 46379.1. (Which, if you haven't picked up on it by now -- 4 *6* 379 is the 6th season from the start of TNG.)
Michael Parnell
2024-08-06 01:36:01 +0000 UTCYeah, it’s a few years, even though it doesn’t “feel” like the referred time fits, almost like they are saying (example) “it’s been ten years…”, but it’s more like 5…
Trayolphia
2024-08-03 01:44:16 +0000 UTCA friend and I had this argument several years ago when the backup QB from his favorite team left to go to a mediocre team. Some players would rather sit on the bench and go to the SuperBowl while some players need the ball in their hands. Riker likes his shiny rings.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-31 03:37:36 +0000 UTCYeah that might be right. That's what I was seeing when I searched it.. I just remember there's something about wolf 359.
ZRX-89
2024-07-31 03:35:46 +0000 UTCPretty sure it's been a couple of years since the beginning of Season 4 when DS9 starts. So in timeline it would be in S6 as well.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-31 03:35:00 +0000 UTCI guess I meant on the timeline. I'm excited for you guys to get to it but I'll be patient LOL
ZRX-89
2024-07-30 15:33:33 +0000 UTCDS9 starts in the middle of TNG Season 6. Unless you mean canonically as in the timeline or something, but we do everything by release order.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-30 15:32:42 +0000 UTCI was genuinely curious if they were going to start DS9 around the same time as it canonically starts.. meaning like here soon. I might be mistaken but I think DS9 starts around season 4 episode 2 or 3. But it seems like we're going to have to wait another year or so before they get to
ZRX-89
2024-07-30 15:04:59 +0000 UTC"There were a bunch of you that joined for this episode! I mean... really?!" Oof.
Blaine Martin
2024-07-30 13:37:03 +0000 UTC(I’m just trying to lower expectations. We hype things up too much. 😉)
tyranusfan
2024-07-30 02:53:46 +0000 UTCLikely cancelled after season 3? The whole season had better average viewership that season 1 or 2 but there are half a dozen season 3 episodes with higher viewership than best of both worlds. Yesterday’s Enterprise had 20% higher Nielsen rating at 12m v 10m so it doesn’t make sense that cancelling it would ever have been on the cards and then ruled out just because of BoBW pt1.
Smear Campaign
2024-07-30 02:43:50 +0000 UTCIt was talked about in mainstream culture. It was the first time I remember hearing TNG being talked about. The cliffhanger was a really big deal and the show caught on with a lot of people because of it.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:51:18 +0000 UTCDr. Crusher is also a full Commander.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:46:06 +0000 UTCSeveral of my top episodes are in seasons 4 and 5.
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:38:58 +0000 UTCUmmm no, I disagree...
Ron Hubbard Jr
2024-07-30 01:38:04 +0000 UTCLol they didn't realize it. It wasn't a huge thing. I think most people would assume that would be the command structure made.
Greg Quinn
2024-07-30 01:18:52 +0000 UTCSeason 4....whelp, it's downhill from here... :D
tyranusfan
2024-07-30 00:07:27 +0000 UTCI personally like Season 5 more than Season 4. Season 4 has lots of good to great stuff, but it has more episodes I'm more or less lukewarm about than Season 3 or 5 do. Plus Season 5 has my favorite episode. Of course, that's my humble opinion.
KatWithAttitude
2024-07-29 23:47:58 +0000 UTCSorry that might have been my comment, I did change it but it looks like the guy's recorded the episode by the time I did.
Skullman8942
2024-07-29 21:23:29 +0000 UTCTNG's ratings were always good enough for renewal. It wasn't really even that close. But ratings showed hints of improvement (or more to the point stabilization and slight improvement). But with the water Cooler aspect of the summer. TNG ratings in season 4 were significantly higher building through season all of season 6 and reaching levels where if it was compared to Network tv would often qualify as a top ten show. It also did exceptionally well with male viewers, young viewers, and viewers with income and higher education. Meaning not only were ratings very good, they delivered very high ad rates. Thus TNG really started to become a cash cow in the way the TOS reruns had generated massive sums of money for Paramount over 2 decades at that point.
Mark Wood
2024-07-29 21:05:29 +0000 UTCThats a huge plus.
Mark Wood
2024-07-29 20:53:22 +0000 UTCBut no one's been picked yet. Lol
Greg Quinn
2024-07-29 20:32:39 +0000 UTCI guess my one comment got deleted. I wasn't actually spoiling anything though. Just pointed out one of the questions had accidentally done a bit of spoiling.
Greg Quinn
2024-07-29 20:31:48 +0000 UTCTo be fair about riker ….. would you want to be a captain of a random ship or first officer of the flagship
Warpiggaming
2024-07-29 20:01:16 +0000 UTCGuess there’s two ways to answer that. I’m pretty sure TNG was in stereo back then but I’m sure the sound quality wasn’t anything spectacular. On the other hand, now that TNG is on Blu-ray, we have the ability to hear everything with much better clarity. If this were any other episode I wouldn’t have brought it up, but I think a lot of us feel that the score for this episode is so good that we really want you to appreciate it as much as possible.
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-07-29 19:57:18 +0000 UTCSo the people watching it on their box TV in 1990 weren’t experiencing it correctly either? Genuine question
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 19:27:17 +0000 UTCI believe TNG had a relatively high Nielsen rating and was a very valuable syndicated show as early as season two and was never in any danger of being cancelled. There really wasn't much competition for the big three networks (ABC, NBC & CBS), they were pulling 20s for their top series (Cheers, Roseanne-even Doogie Howser, M.D. was getting a 14), while TNG was getting something like a 10 rating share (which was really fantastic for a non-network series). If TNG had been on one of those networks, it most certainly would have been cancelled, but in syndication the main concern was revenue, not competition. It cost about 1 million per episode to make and was generating 10 million per episode in revenue, by season four. Each episode also aired twice a week. The first airing had 3 or 4 minutes of local avails and the second airing doubled that, so individual stations that bought it, got a lot of ad time to sell each week vs. their locals on network shows where they only got one minute halfway through and one minute at the end.
Stevtrek
2024-07-29 19:13:03 +0000 UTCThat makes sense. And I wouldn’t care for an episode like “who watches the watchers” but BOBW should be experienced with both ears.
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-07-29 18:53:23 +0000 UTCI had the same experience. Star Trek without the original crew was unthinkable for me. So I pretty much didn't join until season 3. I can't remember it it was because of Best of Both Worlds explcitly. As I am living in central Europe there also was a delay of one or two years before TNG came out. Mainly because of the dubbing. Fun fact: Patrick Stewart got a different german voice actor mid series which upset the hell out of the german speaking fans. And the network listened! They switched back to the first actor for the last seasons of TNG and the movies.
Sam Langanke
2024-07-29 18:43:37 +0000 UTCIn space, no one can hear the Borg pumping out their theme song. It's a vacuum, we're not sure why they're doing that. But no one tells them, because fuck my dick off it's the Borg let's get the hell out of here.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-07-29 18:39:39 +0000 UTCYes this a great episode but it's too dark and actiony for that. To be compared with City on the Edge, an episode needs more of an inner lightness.
Dan Halstead
2024-07-29 18:16:01 +0000 UTCStill think it's the best cliffhanger because it's so extremely "immediate." Meaning, it stops so abruptly that the resolution to that moment is right after To Be Continued .
Joe Concepts
2024-07-29 18:14:04 +0000 UTCIn my opinion, Part 1 is really good, but Part 2 is better.
Tom Occhipinti
2024-07-29 17:55:11 +0000 UTCYou've made comparisons between this and City of the Edge. You know .... I don't think this show has had its City on the Edge type episode yet. There's a candidate or two, and it's not this.
JGoss
2024-07-29 17:47:47 +0000 UTCThey don’t “shave against the grain” Alex and Josh give their honest opinions. I believe honesty, and authenticity is what separates them from most reaction channels .
Just another Red Shirt
2024-07-29 17:46:04 +0000 UTCYou basically described Rich from Red Letter Media's experience. When he first heard of TNG, he was convinced that Star Trek could never be Star Trek without the original cast, and concluded that the show would suck. He caught an early season 1 episode that wasn't that great like Code of Honor or something, and this seemed to confirm his bias. So he never gave the show a chance again. UNTIL the summer when suddenly everyone was talking about this cliffhanger and how they turned Picard into a Borg. THEN he got curious and started checking the show out, and realized that it actually had some really great stuff in it, and he was stupid for dismissing it. He's been a fan ever since. I'm sure a lot of other people had a similar experience. Without this episode, TNG would have likely been cancelled after Season 3. But the hype this episode caused brought in enough viewers that it cemented TNG's future into 7 seasons. As for season 4, season 3 got all the hype because it was the breakout season as someone else mentioned. It's the season where TNG finally figured out what it was. Depending on how you view it, it's either "the first good season" or "the last bad season" though I'm sure most people consider it to be the first good one. From here on out, TNG is a lot more consistent because they figured out what works. You're still going to get some duds every once in a while, or some weird episodes that didn't really work, but in general the quality level is going to be consistently on par with season 3 or higher.
BN13
2024-07-29 17:38:41 +0000 UTCI’m one of those ridiculous geeks that can recite the script by heart. My daughter makes fun of me because I sat there once and recited Wrath of Khan word for word for 20 minutes as a sample, to her amazement, including exact Stardates. For example, Kirstie Alley, in her 1st sentence, the stardate is 8130.3. Boy is that sad. Lol
Chris S.
2024-07-29 17:37:22 +0000 UTCYou got your wish. That was the LAST episode promo done by Ernie Anderson. It's all Don LaFontaine from here.
JGoss
2024-07-29 17:32:25 +0000 UTCThe only other season cliffhanger I knew of before TNG is Dallas, with the 'Who Shot J. R.?" Which was a sensation.
Mike Rogers
2024-07-29 17:31:50 +0000 UTCThe command structure on the Enterprise: Picard, Commanding Officer. Riker, Executive Officer, 2nd in command. Data, Operations Officer, 3rd in command, LaForge, Chief Engineer, 4rth in Command. Worf, Tactical Officer/Chief of Security, 5th in Command.
Aaron Wells
2024-07-29 17:31:11 +0000 UTCDid no one mention that all summer Patrick Stewart was in some intense contract negotiations for season four (he wanted more money...lol). This was known to people who read entertainment magazines. So the possibility was in people's minds that maybe they would kill Stewart off screen. So there was legitimate uncertainty (apparently...I was an 11 year old and wasn't following all that).
Greg Quinn
2024-07-29 17:30:20 +0000 UTCRegarding whether or not Josh and Alex should watch Part 2 now: Josh & Alex: "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." Me: "Shut up and watch it."
Tom Occhipinti
2024-07-29 17:24:30 +0000 UTCSince the Patron Takes are split into two groups, there are fewer eyes to spot these things.
JGoss
2024-07-29 17:15:06 +0000 UTC@Lwaxana's Poolboy - if you're listening with a single earbud, you want Mono so you actually hear everything. It's the best option for their method of listening
JGoss
2024-07-29 17:13:00 +0000 UTCShelby is at this point, not a full Commander. She is a lieutenant commander, equivalent in rank to Data, who is already the ships second officer. Shelby, however, has been working for Starfleet Tactical, overseeing the anti-Borg thing. She's already an expert, and removing Data from Ops would make an unnecessary hole. Under the circumstances.
Aaron Wells
2024-07-29 17:12:39 +0000 UTCI always interpreted it as he wants to be a captain, but he also loves working on the Enterprise and loves working with Picard, so the position he has is too good to leave. My husband and I have been in similar work situations where technically if we left where we were we'd have better career opportunities, but the atmosphere of where we're already at us just too good to leave. We know we'd probably always be happier where we are than if we left for something that looks better on paper. Plus, this whole episode is about Riker questioning his AMBITION, not his abilities. Ambition can be a good quality to have, but if you get too focused on it, you lose touch with wisdom and seeing all of the other things that are important. Just as Picard said in Tin Man, it's not always about speed and getting there first. In the same way, it's also not always about just getting the highest rank. As Troi said, being on the Enterprise has "seasoned" Riker, which basically means he's wiser now. Whether he fully realizes it or not, he's understanding that it's not all about the ambition of wanting to be Captain as soon as possible like he previously thought. If he's in a good place and he likes it enough, then he doesn't ever NEED to be captain. He already has everything that makes him happy. The episode contrasts this with Shelby who doesn't understand that wisdom at all and is basically pure ambition. If she's what Riker used to be, then I'm glad Riker finally grew up, rounded out, and gained some wisdom to offset that. The episode also warns that ambition taken to it's furthest extreme is actually the Borg. There is a line where the virtue of ambition becomes a vice.
BN13
2024-07-29 17:12:31 +0000 UTC"Eni...Enig....uh.... MYSTERY BIRD asks......"
JGoss
2024-07-29 17:11:41 +0000 UTCShelby is a commander, so she outranks Worf (Lieutenant) and Geordi (Lieutenant-Commander). Other than Riker, she is the only full Commander on the crew. It would be very hard to justify promoting them over her. It would constitute a judgment that Shelby is not deserving of her rank and amount to Riker putting a black mark on her record.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-07-29 17:06:31 +0000 UTCI predict that you will really like most episodes of Season 4, simply like the remainder of the twenty-five episodes and DESPISE one.
Jeffrey P
2024-07-29 16:58:46 +0000 UTCIt is from this point forward that Dr. Evil demanded that all the sharks had to have laser beams on their heads.
Alan Thompson
2024-07-29 16:53:57 +0000 UTCI guess it depends on what type of person you are and what you need mentally. My husband for instance will forget what's going on in a show unless he watches them very close together. But I can remember what happened in a show for years, and like analyzing and theorizing over what's going to happen next, so I like the anticipation.
BN13
2024-07-29 16:51:35 +0000 UTC@Matt maybe I’m confused, but that’s why we are watching (listening rather) in mono… so we both hear everything
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 16:40:29 +0000 UTCObviously I could be wrong, but I don’t see turning into the Borg as the way they would write Picard out of the show if he was leaving….. if it is I will criticize it lol
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 16:37:13 +0000 UTCBut what about this score? This score has been praised and analyzed on multiple occasions. The pounding chord as the camera spins around Riker is epic.
Michael Metrick
2024-07-29 16:26:41 +0000 UTCFair enough. My wife and I are almost 50, and she Binges shows like its nobody’s business. She’s so annoying. Married for over 20 years……for why? Kidding lol.
Chris S.
2024-07-29 16:18:02 +0000 UTCI don't see anybody watching this as their first episide being confused. The show explains who Riker is, what his role is, and who the Borg are. People can fill in the blanks and don't need the Q episode or even any episode to enjoy this. As a matter of fact, if I was selling the show this might be one I'd push if I wanted the audience to stick around for another.
Ken R
2024-07-29 16:11:53 +0000 UTCJustice for the BOBW score!!
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-07-29 16:00:03 +0000 UTCLove Alex's appreciation of the Riker Worf bromance.
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-29 15:58:34 +0000 UTCAs an audiophile I can't even imagine watching a show with directional sound and not getting it all. In a few cases it didn't just do a disservice but it actually preventing one or the other from HEARING some of it.
Matt Newmark
2024-07-29 15:54:21 +0000 UTCMono? Mono?! Now you’ve definitely got to rewatch the episode. I think the Blu-ray is in 5.1. Mono?! Oh Lordy!!
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-07-29 15:43:52 +0000 UTCMaybe, but it’s mono just like when we were using the TV audio, so it’s the same experience we’ve always had (in person) and we’ve praised plenty of scores
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 15:33:57 +0000 UTCIn being so certain that Picard is coming back (not saying you're correct), I'm afraid you guys are missing out on at least some of the drama in this one. At the time that wasn't at all certain, either to the audience or to the writers. Stewart's contract renewal was still under negotiation, and the writers had to give themselves room for it to go either way.
Dan Halstead
2024-07-29 15:33:54 +0000 UTC"Waiting 'so' long" GOT 7-8 hiatus: Hold my beer.
Matt Newmark
2024-07-29 15:33:30 +0000 UTCIf it’s the one I think you’re referring to (won’t confirm just in case), it was kinda alluded to in the episode, so I don’t think it’s strictly a spoiler. Still, agree that vigilance is needed!
Brian Dunleavy
2024-07-29 15:23:26 +0000 UTCFrom what I remember at the time, Star Trek TNG was still going through a lot of scrutiny by the audience up to this point. There hadn’t been a Star Trek series since the 1960s and there was a big anticipation for this series . When TNG first came out a lot of it was compared to TOS and a lot of people were not happy because they were looking for a similar TOS vibe. Also, the group that I watched TNG with was hoping that Riker would be the next captain since he was much more like Captain Kirk.
Steve777
2024-07-29 15:14:08 +0000 UTCOk, I gotta say, having one earphone each really did a disservice to your ability to appreciate the score.
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-07-29 15:13:44 +0000 UTClmao that's hilarious. BUT if you give up on BSG... we will riot! So Say We All!
Rod Gallow
2024-07-29 15:08:53 +0000 UTCYou figured me out! The title is really some convoluted nonsense about the Borg and Picard! But funny enough, the person who made the spoiler comment edited their OG comment after you read it so now it doesn't read like one. Me bringing it to attention was more meant for everyone to be careful.
THE LORE!!!
2024-07-29 15:06:10 +0000 UTCThought you were talking about us at first 💀
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:58:29 +0000 UTCI said in the recording “Steve is trying to get his take read by posting bait but it’s not gonna work” but then realized even saying that is still taking the bait so I cut it 😎
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:57:47 +0000 UTCNo idea which one you’re referring to, so instead of bringing attention to a spoiler let’s all move on
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:55:44 +0000 UTC"Egg... Eh... EnugmoticPunkoon."
Steven Johnson
2024-07-29 14:55:34 +0000 UTCThe twist is The LORE is talking about his own take!!!
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:55:05 +0000 UTCJust as hard as any other one 😆
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:53:45 +0000 UTCSure, there are benefits to both. Depends on the show and how into it you are
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:53:04 +0000 UTCI should clarify that my comment abour "shaving against the grain" was more that sometimes your tastes run contrary to the general concensus among fans, not that you guys are trying to stir up shit.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-07-29 14:52:35 +0000 UTCI knew it’d be hard to get a longer take read on this one. 😣
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-07-29 14:52:35 +0000 UTCPolice yourselves people
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-07-29 14:50:43 +0000 UTCDammit someone got a spoiler through
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-07-29 14:47:44 +0000 UTCWelp, someone asked a question referring to something that happens in part 2. IDK if the boys caught that it didn't happen yet or was a hypothetical, but great job. Gotta be careful, people.
THE LORE!!!
2024-07-29 14:41:32 +0000 UTCI will forever continue to submit comments just to see Alex struggle to pronounce my name.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-07-29 14:37:06 +0000 UTCI really felt the Boys fell off a cliff this season. Well, actually I quit watching it so I guess I can't give a fair assessment. House of the Dragon has been great. Shogun and Fallout are the only other standout TV shows for me this year.
Rod Gallow
2024-07-29 14:31:37 +0000 UTCI don't disagree with you, but for me, the issue is that there is so much content consumed, that time waiting is not time spent building excitement, it's time spent focusing on other stuff. So that when the show comes back, it's been mostly out of my mind. Back in the day when I followed just one or two shows, I would build hype, rewatch the episode 2-3 times in between, and come prepped for the next one, but nowadays, I barely remember what happens from one week to the next because I had so much else to occupy my mind. That's why I enjoy the binge watch, so I can follow through while everything is fresh in my mind. If there's a break, I've filled it with something else, so not actively thinking about the first thing anymore.
Guillaume Bergeron
2024-07-29 14:30:49 +0000 UTCI wrote you guys the perfect troll comment and you don't read it. *kicks over some bullshit* FINE! *Slams door and storms off*
Steven Johnson
2024-07-29 14:30:33 +0000 UTCYes! My take by this point was always that Riker wanted to Captain the Enterprise and no other ship would do.
Lincynity
2024-07-29 14:29:40 +0000 UTCOne more thing….This episode, believe it or not, made TNG a “water cooler” show, where people were talking about it the next day. Others, who were overhearing the hype, checked it out, and a whole slew of fans were hooked. More accurately, season 3 was the “break out” season where it starts to find its footing, instead of saying that S3 is suddenly awesome. But BOBW capped it off as “this is where the show took off” kind of vibe.
Chris S.
2024-07-29 14:22:43 +0000 UTCTrue, and it’s not only young people who are impatient as regularly proven by our audience 😆💀
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-29 14:18:36 +0000 UTCOne of the great things about week-to-week release of episodes is anticipation. In this ADHD instant gratification world we live in, people are conditioned to be impatient. There’s something to be said about building anticipation. My opinion is that its always been better that way. I’ve gotten into arguments with co-workers who disagree with me, and I just don’t get it. If you love a show that much, the whole point is to wait so you can think on it and rub your hands together, ready and excited to see what comes next. Society has lost a big part of that, and its disappointing.
Chris S.
2024-07-29 14:17:02 +0000 UTC
