Target Audience / UNCUT REACTION & DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E22

I like this one a bit more than you guys. I think it's strong in the characterisation of Data and I think the ending is well judged. The fake crying over Data's death is less strong.

PapaCoffeeCup

2024-07-28 15:05:17 +0000 UTC

The Final Draft script of this episode, available on the Star Trek Minutiae website, ends after the scene with Data and Fajo in the Enterprise brig with the words, "75 thru 80 OMITTED FADE OUT. END OF ACT FIVE THE END". In other words, six more shots that appeared in an earlier version of the script were omitted from the Final Draft. It wouldn't surprise me if these constituted a tag scene on the bridge like the one Alex described, and someone decided that the scene in the brig was a stronger finish.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-07-25 10:55:44 +0000 UTC

The RedLetterMedia guys actually have that uniform from this episode. After it was dissolving the outfit and had the patch on the chest. They bought it from some prop house a while back and have used it in a couple of their videos.

Boggle

2024-07-23 22:05:49 +0000 UTC

Well, I pretty much am on the same page you guys on everything. Except Saul Rubinek. I always forget the episode exists except for his performance. My favorite kind of Star Trek actor, campy and flamboyant, but able to still handle subtle scenes.

Deep Red

2024-07-19 18:41:28 +0000 UTC

The small person was David Rappaport a British comedy actor that had been in a lot of stuff. Not a dwarf, he had some other developmental syndrome. I thought his performance was pretty poor in the clips I saw, but that's to be expected from someone contemplating suicide I guess. I think Rubinek was lucky they had no time, less is definitely more in this instance. Rappaport's version of Fajo is so non-human looking that his cruelty doesn't really hit hard enough. Rubinek looks like a normal guy and is occasionally charming, making his cruelty harder to swallow.

Leyton Jay

2024-07-17 12:16:56 +0000 UTC

data’s forced servitude and moral dilemma over killing, the sense loss amongst the crew, and utter repugnance of the collector, the acting from pretty much everyone makes it work.

David Marcoot

2024-07-17 04:55:34 +0000 UTC

How so?

Jovet

2024-07-17 02:44:44 +0000 UTC

There are many actors I feel that way about, #1 on my list is Nicolas Cage. He only knows how to play one thing, and if he's in that kind of role, he's fine; if he's not in that kind of role, he's not fine. Whatever you may think of Mr. Rubinek's acting in general, here he was in that role he's good at.

Jovet

2024-07-17 02:43:08 +0000 UTC

Data "did" his "first murder" which turned out not to happen. He didn't have to shoot Fajo, he chose to. It's profound for the character.

Jovet

2024-07-17 02:40:14 +0000 UTC

🙄

Jovet

2024-07-17 02:37:07 +0000 UTC

@Spencer Loften I can excuse or kind-of-understand all their criticism of this one EXCEPT for the ones about Rubinek's performance. He was gold, absolutely fantastic. Really makes me wonder what episode they were watching! 🤷

Jovet

2024-07-17 02:35:18 +0000 UTC

yeah, I saw one reactor who can cry on command and her thing is how she is "moved" by every emotional scene. At least with these guys there reactions are genuine and you know it's what they actually think. If you just want people to fawn over something you love, there are plenty of channels like that.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-17 02:22:49 +0000 UTC

this episode hits hard for me

David Marcoot

2024-07-17 01:15:08 +0000 UTC

The "Courtney Brown" of Star Trek the Next Generation

Eric Singer

2024-07-16 21:33:46 +0000 UTC

I think your suggestion is fair and definitely not offensive; and many reactors have gone that way. But for them, it's all content that from a business standpoint it gives more to react to good. Second...most the episodes they seem to get some enjoyment out of even if they don't love them. The few they really seem to hate they almost enjoy from a hate watch perspective. Too many reactors are doing the greatest hits thing and you end up having them say, in season five "oh I'm surprised what's his name did that" about a major character and that's just the worse. Think about how annoyed everyone gets here when they don't remember a name that references a scientist who appeared once (Daystrom) in TOS. Imagine everyone if they kept calling Crusher "the red haired doctor lady"...lol I personally like the idea of what they are doing. There is some trek I never watched...and I plan to first time watch it along with them (assuming they get to it, stick with it, and we all live long enough...I mean 5 or so years might just be an eternity...lol).

Greg Quinn

2024-07-16 19:33:15 +0000 UTC

here's a video comparing the two actors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcN4upJ3FQ4

paultardspambot .

2024-07-16 16:01:42 +0000 UTC

Isn’t that a little like saying a so-so day in my life that could have been better is worse than a really bad day?

Jeremy Torgerson

2024-07-16 13:17:23 +0000 UTC

I think it’s this whole binge watching thing that everybody does now. We had to wait a week between episodes, and the summer between the season finale and the season premiere. And if you missed it, you were pretty much screwed until you caught it again in a rerun. The other thing I think is a huge mistake is applying 2024 production standards and budgets (and very, very short seasons) to older shows. TNG (all of series TV at the time, actually) had to put out 26 hour-long episodes a year with a very limited budget. It’s amazing this show’s quality overall considering those constraints. Familiarity breeds contempt, I guess. I’m really afraid of how they’re going to be reacting to decent episodes three seasons from now, when DS9 is overlapping.

Jeremy Torgerson

2024-07-16 13:14:36 +0000 UTC

Who was asked on a Saturday or Sunday and showed up for work Monday morning.

Jeremy Torgerson

2024-07-16 13:04:22 +0000 UTC

The original actor to play Fajo attempted suicide after the first three or four days of filming. Saul Rubinek is a close friend of Brent Spiner and came in to do it at the last minute as a favor, with only a day to prepare. As an actor, that’s genius work to me. You can see the original work of the other actor. It’s an interesting contrast between the two. They used a dwarf to play Fajo the first time and he was interestingly pretty menacing under much more make up. You can find those original shots pretty easily on YouTube. That’s the other reason why they couldn’t do a lot of make up for Rubinek – they literally had a weekend.

Jeremy Torgerson

2024-07-16 13:03:04 +0000 UTC

Saul Rubinek always seems like a one dimensional actor to me. He is fine I suppose but is always the same personality no matter what the setting is. Old trekkie here, watched everything multiple times now and this has always been a meh episode. Your opinions are always valid no matter what, keep up the great work and we’ll keep watching too. It is just amazing that these stories remain entertaining and have something to say to later generations after all these years!

Jack Fletcher

2024-07-16 03:39:55 +0000 UTC

Gotta say I'm not feelin' you guys' vibe on this one. I think perhaps there was a little too much focus on the out-of-story production content. You missed a very good episode, Data growing beyond his programming darkly and even lying to Riker.

Josh Eversole

2024-07-16 02:26:10 +0000 UTC

Right when Data tells Riker "something must have happened in transport" and you can see on Rikers face the realization "Data just lied to me"

John Carpenter

2024-07-16 02:16:59 +0000 UTC

@Andreas Schmitt I think we all know why he pulled the trigger. He said it, "I cannot permit this to continue." – Fajo's manipulation, criminality, selfishness, reign over his subordinates, etc. The real question is: Why did he not admit all the facts to Cmdr Riker?

Jovet

2024-07-16 01:07:05 +0000 UTC

You might want to check out the Galifrey Gals reaction to this episode.

Richard Finch

2024-07-16 00:01:59 +0000 UTC

Really? I never watched enough of that show.

startrekiborg

2024-07-15 23:51:02 +0000 UTC

I remember him placing the nicest guy in the world on Frasier. Great actor.

Richard Finch

2024-07-15 23:46:44 +0000 UTC

Yep days before this episode aired.

Mark Wood

2024-07-15 21:21:40 +0000 UTC

Sorry I didn't mean to be offensive, it was just an idea so that you might have more fun in the long run. But your journey, your decision. I will definitely keep watching. :)

Liquid82

2024-07-15 19:35:13 +0000 UTC

We are watching everything. Thank you for appreciating our honesty.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 19:06:22 +0000 UTC

The reverse can be applied too. I never liked "The Bonding" on original airing (my younger days), and yet you both positively shone through emotionally why it was good, and explained it well, I appreciate it more now thanks to you and posted at the time! As I said, glad you liked it a little bit :) We are all on a journey with you, some for the 1st time, and some like me, watched the entire show on 1st airing. TNG for many is close to our Hearts (Picard was my role model for sure) and so I guess some of us might get a little "emotional" when we disagree. Keep doing what you are doing, overall I love your reactions and cant wait to see your reaction for the S3 Finale! We all love ST, all of us can only be honest in how we see it. TNG/ST Forever!

Andrew Bassey

2024-07-15 18:48:09 +0000 UTC

I think we have to come to terms with the fact that our guys have very high expectations of the quality of the episodes. Solid or good episodes with outstanding moments for the development of the characters like the q episode or this data episode are simply not enough. We have to respect that. I have no problem with them not liking episodes that much. But it's sad because you can already guess that they're only going to enjoy 25% of what's to come (TNG). I appreciate that they always give their honest opinion. But the most important thing is that our guys enjoy their Star Trek journey. And I'm not sure if that will go well over 7 seasons.... Maybe it would be an idea if they only watched the top 7 episodes of the remaining seasons of TNG. And the movies. They will have much more fun with the continuous plot of DS9 and voyager.

Liquid82

2024-07-15 18:41:53 +0000 UTC

I'm not so sure about this. I think our guys will absolutely destroy 2 of the last 4 episodes. In the other two, I think they will at least recognize their potential. Either way it will be entertaining. :D

Liquid82

2024-07-15 17:25:11 +0000 UTC

As the collector pointed out, those artifacts are ALL priceless and one of a kind cultural artifacts. Data is still a Starfleet officer, and part of that is not to destroy something so valuable to a culture, if possible. Let's not forget that Data is basically immortal, so he's not exactly under time pressure to get this situation resolved. He can take his time and plan, and also trust that in the meantime there's a chance the Enterprise crew will figure out what happened. I agree the execution wasn't perfect, but at the end of the day what matters is not "did Data shoot or not"... because yes we all know he did.. the REAL question is... WHY did he shoot... did he shoot because he calculated it was the only way to stop the collector from killing, or was it just a little bit of emotion after all.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 15:26:26 +0000 UTC

Also my recommendation on this issue: Just keep doing the "episode revisited" that you did for some TOS episodes where you differed from the fans. Eventually when you're with DS9 or whatever, maybe go back and re-watch some early TNG episodes that were heavily "disputed" and make another video about them. Worked well for the TOS re-visited ones.. so why not?

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 15:15:57 +0000 UTC

I can't speak for anybody else. I don't ever get annoyed by you complaining about an episode, sometimes I just genuinely do not understand where your strong feelings about it come from. But that's fine. I just don't want you to set your bar for the episodes so high that your enjoyment of the show suffers, that's all. As for what the patrons post as feedback.. obviously you don't have to like it all, but at the end of the day, just as much as we want YOU to be yourselves and react the way you do and say honestly if you don't like something (I mean, you ripping apart Kenobi is why is subscribed in the first place, as I told you many times). But I feel the other side of that coin is that we patrons also need to feel free to voice OUR view of both the episode and your reaction to the episode freely, including when we feel you were overly critical of something. With a few exeptions I've recently not observed anybody having a problem per-se with you not liking an episode or critizising it, or loving one that we consider meh. For example I think The Bonding is a pile of garbage, but I 100% understood WHY you enjoyed it, you simply focused on completely different aspects of it and connected with it in a way I didn't. I also understood why you didn't enjoy other episodes I enjoy way more, because you explained what you were looking for. But when there are episodes like Captain's Holiday where I see you rip into an episode and I really don't understand why, when your reactions throws me a complete curveball, then I'm going to say so. And that's not meant as "Alex and Josh are idiots because they didn't like this", but more a "Ok this time around I really don't get it, we need to talk about this some more when the season is over". Also I think you got a bit defensive when we said "maybe this is because you felt weird on that day, or on any other day you would have liked it more". Because.. that's not saying you're wrong.. that's just us trying to figure out where the strong emotions came from, and nobody is immune to an episode being different depending on when you watch it. That's part of the blind reaction thing in the first place. You only get to see it for the first time once. And discussing why you feel the way you feel about it, is part of the fun for us, especially when we cannot figure it out and your reaction doesn't match our usual understanding of you. Also.. keep in mind that most of us have seen these episodes 100 times by now. So we have seen them on different days, with different moods, having watched most of the shows before we watch it again for the 50th time... that gives us a more average view of the episode. You've seen it once.. on a particular day... after watching a particular other episode, after having experiences in that specific week, after haing expectations of a season you haven't seen yet... So it's only natural that your view might sometimes massively differ from the general consensus... and I think it's totally possible that you may change your view on some episodes and about your own reaction to it, after having watched TNG 50 times, with different moods. All part of the journey.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 15:01:29 +0000 UTC

I highly disagree with that statement Josh.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 14:49:24 +0000 UTC

This one is in my top ten all time TNG episodes, mostly because of the genius performance from Saul Rubinek.

Jonathan Llyr

2024-07-15 14:05:22 +0000 UTC

I'm more surprised by the reaction to the reaction. I didn't realize so many people would feel the need to defend this episode so vehemently. For me, this was always a good, not great, episode. The script isn't there, although I like the performances with what they were given. To me, I never reached the point of caring enough to try to "fix" the episode or hate it. It's just a solid episode B tier. Let's move on to better episodes to come.

Justin B

2024-07-15 12:55:51 +0000 UTC

Thank you for all the input Andreas. I said we haven’t changed how we critique it, not how we react. Our reactions have obviously evolved as time goes on. Our 175th Star Trek reaction being the same as our reaction to The Man Trap wouldn’t make sense, so I agree with you there. I meant the criteria on which we judge individual episodes is the same, although we do have less forgiveness as time goes on and we see more and more excellent episodes. I think the whole “being defensive” thing is an unfortunate disconnect of making content that our personalities are still trying to mix with. What I mean is, in our real life among our peers we all roast each other and argue all the time in good fun. So, when we get comments online complaining about things we naturally lean into cracking jokes or debating about it in the comments and in our videos. What we’ve learned is not everyone likes that. I think people online are used to being able to complain on creator’s stuff and the creator not engaging or not specifically interacting back and challenging them. We have toned it down a bit, but it will always be part of our content, because it’s part of who we are.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 12:48:16 +0000 UTC

You have a higher opinion of this episode than I do. It is one I will skip.

Jeffrey

2024-07-15 12:46:25 +0000 UTC

Most of this episode had to be reshot because the original actor who played Kivas Fajo (David Rappaport) killed himself after a couple of days filming. Very sad but it worked out well for Star Trek as his character was frankly ridiculous with terrible prosthetics and make-up, the replacement was better in every respect.

Leyton Jay

2024-07-15 12:38:54 +0000 UTC

Not only that, I also feel Brent Spiner's performance in the finished episode was MUCH better. I think those two actors just played off eachother better.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 12:37:54 +0000 UTC

It was a ship in Star Trek III and yes, it was an homage to Gus Grissom.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 12:36:40 +0000 UTC

Irritating episode. When Saul Rubinek would show up as a guest star on a series, it was time to flip to another channel. Some folks like him. He just always seemed the same in all roles across shows/across genres. First time posting here. Keep up the good work. Don’t alter your trajectory too much. You’re doing great.

Frank Tagader

2024-07-15 12:36:25 +0000 UTC

Completely different things. IN Seasons 1&2 sometimes you barely reacted at all DURING the reaction. That's what made some of us wonder if you're even having fun still. That wasn't criticism, that was worry. This is different, and I'm not the only one who noticed you criticising the episodes a lot more since season 3 started. And that's again, not criticism, it's just something we notice. And I doubt that's just our perspective, when you have repeatedly stated yourselves that you are now more frustrated with B tier episodes that didn't quite make it, because you've seen what S tier looks like. Your own words. I'm just saying, if you are going to put the bar that high from now on, get ready for some real frustration, because as great as these shows are, there is no show from that era that could do an entire season of S tier. Back then they needed to fill the season with 26 episodes which plenty of today's TV makers call "completely insane". I'm not citicising you, I just want you to have fun still, and still be able to get full enjoyment out of A and B and even C tier episodes, which will still be the majority of episodes. I enjoy your reactions just fine still. However I will also say that you guys have developed a bit of a thin skin recently. You see every feedback we give as criticism and immediately go into defensive mode in the comments and even in the video use stuff like "we don't care" and other direct comments about people talking about your reactions. If you don't want us to give you feedback on how we observe your reactions changing over time, just say so. But don't let us give you that feedback and just respond with "you're all wrong, we react the same way as always"... because... no.. you don't. That doesn'T mean you need to change that or force yourselves to react a certain way, but maybe you shouldn't just dismiss us either. You WERE insanely critical of this and Captain's holiday, that's just a fact. Frankly I'd find it WAY more interesting if you picked up such feedback and turned it into content. Make a end-of-season video on "ok we got many people saying we were overly critical of episodes A,B or the season, what do we think why that may have been the case" or something. Just telling us "nope, you're all wrong" is fine I guess but it doesn't really add to the experience. Edit: And really... please don't see every percieved criticism from our side as a "you need to react the way I want you to"... because that is NOT what we're saying.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 12:33:54 +0000 UTC

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't overly impressed with Saul Rubinek's performance. He's a fine actor, but something didn't quite click for me here with his character. Data firing on him made perfect sense, and I thought the ending fit. Don't let some of these comments get you down, you're allowed your own opinions and it's a treat to see these episodes from different eyes than our own 👍

Brooke Hill

2024-07-15 11:53:40 +0000 UTC

That’s fair. For the record our problem was the execution of it, not Data shooting Fajo, but I’m glad it worked for you.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 11:49:38 +0000 UTC

We disagreed about stuff in this discussion lol. We are usually on the same page generally because we are looking for much of the same things in an episode, but typically our “disagreements” are one person having a strong opinion on something that the other person doesn’t feel as strongly about, whether that be positive or negative opinions, so the other person says something like “oh interesting, I didn’t think of that.” Probably our closest thing to a straight up disagreement on an episode as a whole was the season 1 episode Justice that at the time Josh really enjoyed and Alex didn’t like. We have more traditional “debates” when it comes to movies where our tastes are more varied, but majority of our audience doesn’t watch that content, so they wouldn’t know.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 11:48:09 +0000 UTC

But they disagree about stuff all the time?

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-07-15 11:35:31 +0000 UTC

Honestly the main thing that frustrates me about these Star Trek reactions is that Alex and Josh never seem to disagree with each other, ever. If Alex starts off with his thoughts and he's lukewarm on an episode I know for a fact that Josh not only feels the same way, but for the same reasons. It's like they're two criminal suspects getting their stories straight before an interrogation. It makes the episode critiques less interesting for me, because there's hardly ever any real debate between them at all. Before your time, but--have you guys ever seen Siskel and Ebert? They disagreed about movies, often, and their debates were what made the show great.

Charlie's Illiteracy

2024-07-15 09:28:59 +0000 UTC

I'm not sure it's fair to judge Rappaport based on that performance, he was obviously not in a good place at the time. There are better examples of his work. But it's fair to say Rubinek turned in a better performance at remarkably short notice. I heard that Brent Spiner and the director both said they knew an actor who could step in, and both of them were thinking of Saul Rubinek. That says a lot about his talent and reputation.

Lincynity

2024-07-15 08:41:20 +0000 UTC

First time I vocally disagree with you about something. The Data firing the disruptor thing. I thought it was perfect. This is the growth we have witnessed with Data. He had no idea he was going to be rescued soon if at all. Data isn’t forbidden from taking a life if necessary. Generally, it would be self-defense, but these are special circumstances and data realizes this. “I cannot allow this to continue.” He is saying to himself as much as he is to Fajo. And Data’s obtuse response about the weapon discharged in transit showed a level of autonomy as did Riker. The look Riker threw O’Brian made it obvious he knew Data was full of shit and he let it slide.

StealthMomo

2024-07-15 08:04:59 +0000 UTC

Agree Saul did better...the finger snap to transmit the sensory data....

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 06:24:19 +0000 UTC

A lot of people in this community have reverence for nearly every episode regardless of how average or terrible it is. This is a community full of Star Trek super fans who pay to watch two random guys they don't know react to Star Trek episodes. I don't mean that as a personal insult either. All I mean is they're going to love Star Trek more than the average person. Bad episodes are good and average episodes like this one are amazing. I haven't agreed with every take of theirs but I do think they're right about this one just being "ok".

Spencer Loften

2024-07-15 06:20:33 +0000 UTC

I've thought about how Data could have hit him with a object. Heck he could have grabbed the Roger Maris card and whipped it into Fajo like a throwing star.

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 06:14:32 +0000 UTC

Completely disagree that the guest actor wasn't good. Saul Rubinek did a fantastic job, his character is super memorable among most fans of this show. I wonder if part of the reason you guys don't like some of these episodes is because you're too young to remember a time when television shows worked with much lower budgets than they do these days.

Matt F

2024-07-15 05:27:22 +0000 UTC

I support the show's choice to show us Data resisting his good friend's deliciously-terrible character versus making us think he was dead the whole time.

Jovet

2024-07-15 05:09:51 +0000 UTC

What they need to understand is... if they start "chef kissing" I may unsubscribe! LOL!!!

Jovet

2024-07-15 05:04:51 +0000 UTC

Exactly! Data does have "secrets," too.

Jovet

2024-07-15 05:03:15 +0000 UTC

Yes, Data pulled the trigger. O'Brien says “It seems to have discharged, sir.”

Jovet

2024-07-15 05:02:17 +0000 UTC

@Column Meanie Ditto.

Jovet

2024-07-15 04:58:51 +0000 UTC

Andreas, you also said at points back in season 1 & 2 of TNG that we didn’t seem to be enjoying the show at all. Before this episode we loved 6 of the last 8 and called many of them perfect. I would argue everyone is becoming more critical of us when we don’t have a 100% positive reaction. We haven’t changed anything about how we critique the show.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 04:56:10 +0000 UTC

(I was joking, of course.)

Jovet

2024-07-15 04:51:40 +0000 UTC

@Andreas Schmitt Well stated.

Jovet

2024-07-15 04:48:21 +0000 UTC

Every single character ever shown in bed in TOS was in uniform.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 04:33:32 +0000 UTC

I think it's more that you've become particularly critical of this season, which is a bit weird to people who watched you the entire time and seen you give absolutely terrible episodes of TOS and TNG S1&2 a break. I guess the honeymoon period is over :P I get it, you've now seen what TNG can do and it frustrates you that the show cannot hold that high value the entire time, but ... I will say it again... this is a time in TV making where they pump out an episode per week, and are glad if they even have 26 scripts to begin with, let alone polish every single one. They're glad if they have a script ready on the day of shooting. There's a lot of amazing episodes to come, all the way into Enterprise which has some of my favorite episodes. However, if you expect seasons of 26 MEasure of a Man type episodes.. that's just unrealistic and will make you frustrated most of the time...

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 04:20:41 +0000 UTC

I'm in about the same boat as you guys. I don't have the level of reverence for this episode a lot of people seem to. It's good, but there's probably 9 or 10 this season I like better. Probably the main difference is I liked Saul Rubinek's performance more than you guys. As I said in my patron take, my favourite performance of his was from the episode Heroes in SG1 S7. His character there is rather unlikeable there as well, but by the end you have a lot of respect for him. BTW, when you speculated that when Data was doing the silent treatment that he might have ended up beating up Toff, the other collector guy, he couldn't because you see him wearing one of the belts as well when he walks in. I've always wondered if the shield provided general physical protection as well. Obviously it wouldn't stop the disruptor or Fajo wouldn't have been worried. However Fajo, Toff and Varria were all wearing the belts and had their arms over each other's shoulders and he touches objects in his collection, so they seem designed to repel Data specifically. Makes me wonder if Data couldn't have picked up the chair and clobbered Fajo into submission for it. For that matter, Data could probably throw any small dense object with enough precision and force to disable the shield emitter. As for the "did he shoot" scene, he absolutely did. The above speculation aside, Data was backed into a corner. Fajo had murdered Varria and threatened another member of his crew. Data couldn't physically restrain him with that shield up, and wouldn't get another chance to escape, he had no idea the Enterprise was on the way, and moreover he gave Fajo a chance to surrender. Aside from using an illegal weapon to do it, being the only one available, it's arguably a justified shooting of a dangerous criminal that was resisting arrest. I don't think he lied to Riker, he said something must have occurred during transport, that something being he pulled the trigger. Riker didn't ask a direct question, and Data didn't give a direct answer, and they both knew to let it go. I thought the stuff on the Enterprise was handled fairly well, especially Worf and Geordi's roles this episode, and Picard's voice breaking just a bit reading the line from Shakespeare was a nice touch. Geordi's refusal to accept Data could have made a mistake just reinforces how close they are. I do think if they had not included Data being disabled and kidnapped and let us think he was actually dead until the mourning scenes were done it all would have worked much better. Just cut one scene that was explained in dialogue later anyway, and do a little editing, and it's much better. Still, it's a memorable entry with a pretty detestable villain.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-07-15 04:02:57 +0000 UTC

I haven't heard the patron takes yet, so excuse me, but.. in case someone didn't mention it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcN4upJ3FQ4 The original actor, who was replaced because he attempted suicide during shooting (and later did so again successfully) Quite frankly I think the actor that we ended up getting was massively superior and did an amazing job. Not sure what you disliked about him. Then again, I didn'T understand what you disliked with Dr Stubbs either shrugs

Andreas Schmitt

2024-07-15 04:02:52 +0000 UTC

I always thought this one was "fine." It was a Star Trek. That I watched.

Nolan

2024-07-15 03:53:03 +0000 UTC

That makes Josh's flub on his name fraking hilarious

Nolan

2024-07-15 03:47:13 +0000 UTC

You see, what you guys need to understand is.....

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-07-15 03:22:33 +0000 UTC

Noticed the crocodile tear for the first time on this viewing as well.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-07-15 03:20:35 +0000 UTC

This is one of those episodes that’s not bad but nothing great. It’s what writers used to call an April episode. An episode you are making to fill a week while you focus on better quality stuff to end the season. You get some ok eps when you have to do 26 episodes a season and with Star Trek they have to be working on usually 4 scripts at a time to give the effects, props and makeup teams time to get everything ready, so some episodes don’t get much attention or love from the staff.

Jonathan

2024-07-15 02:57:40 +0000 UTC

The comment about Data taking him in to the law was off the mark. As far as he knew at that point, the Enterprise thought he was dead and was never going to come for him, and he just lost his only way out. He was stuck there. He was the only one who could stop this guy.

Nerd's Gold

2024-07-15 02:49:27 +0000 UTC

All I'll say on Saul Rubinek was that he made Kivas Fajo a LOT more fun to watch than Dr. Stubbs.

JD Nevesytrof

2024-07-15 02:35:00 +0000 UTC

Why do they keep kidnapping the crew? 🤣

John Deardurff

2024-07-15 02:29:17 +0000 UTC

You're Gonna get a shitstorm in the comments so I just wanna let you know you've given good commentary & analysis discussing the flaws of this episode. Personally this is a favorite of mine, but I to recognize those flaws you've brought up. Also "Scary emotionless Data" when you finish the show some years from now look up Data Serial killer TNG meme, someone took clips throughout the show to make Data look like a psychopathic killer murdering random crew members off screen with Picard & crew oblivious & it's Fucking Hilarious

Justin DiBari

2024-07-15 02:10:57 +0000 UTC

For me this episode was like a meal with a few different sides and a main course. The main course is decent, not great or bad, but the sides (the ending with Data probably firing on Fajo) was truly excellent. Perhaps the dessert bit elevated this from what would have been an B episode more towards B+. The only thing I disagree with you guys on is Fajo's actor, Saul Rubinek. I think he played the role really well, it's just that I hated the character he played. But then, that was the point.

Paul

2024-07-15 02:02:19 +0000 UTC

Perhaps if the character plays his role well enough, they have a hard time separating the actor and the character? Because I agree, I hated the character, but the actor played him phenomenally well.

Paul

2024-07-15 01:51:45 +0000 UTC

I mean no matter what we end up thinking of it, the content is going to be chef’s kiss

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 01:23:22 +0000 UTC

Thanks Chris, I think people want to see us love what they love so when we don’t (even when we still like it) they get frustrated. I get it. Getting mad at one of our reactions is like a right of passage to be a Target Audience fan lol.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 01:21:25 +0000 UTC

These guys on the season three finale: "We enjoyed the episode, it was solid enough...it could have been excellent, but..."

Charlie's Illiteracy

2024-07-15 01:18:15 +0000 UTC

I feel you on the heat wave man. I am not a summer person

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-07-15 01:12:43 +0000 UTC

We are just saying what we would have liked to see, I’m not sure what you’re questioning

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 01:04:15 +0000 UTC

We aren’t forgetting, we just don’t accept that as an excuse for the show not being good when the same 90s show is good all the time. We didn’t excuse TOS for being a 60s show either. If someone wants to that’s fine, but we don’t. That’s always been the case.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 01:00:55 +0000 UTC

Their sometimes misguided criticism of excellent episodes no longer surprises me. However I do remain entertained by their analyses. 😁

Column Meanie

2024-07-15 00:59:11 +0000 UTC

Love watching you guys but you have yet to propose a better ending to any of the episodes this season, and this one is no different. Are you making these suggestions because you genuinely think the endings are broken? Or are you just trying to one-up the writers/directors?

Column Meanie

2024-07-15 00:57:18 +0000 UTC

I think they are forgetting they are watching a 90s television show. Writers in the 90s didn’t trust their audiences like they do today.

Column Meanie

2024-07-15 00:47:48 +0000 UTC

Always best to look inside, see if something needs changed there first... The old "log in your own eye" parable. I can't expect a standing ovation for my favorite episodes. Plus, as someone else pointed out, opinions change on multiple viewings or with age. For instance, as a kid I really didn't like The Icarus Factor... As an adult, constantly reflecting on my relationship with my father, who is now gone, that episode has alot to say.

THE Fans

2024-07-15 00:46:07 +0000 UTC

I thought about that lol. Maybe he was just trying to avoid disciplinary action. Still even that's not data's style.

BN13

2024-07-15 00:42:25 +0000 UTC

Also, it wasn't 3 weeks. It was 16 hours to the Enterprise's destination. 3 weeks was how long it would take if they needed to take a detour to get more of the chemical.

Jeff Cornell

2024-07-15 00:40:52 +0000 UTC

yeah and pardon this pun : a real eye opener

Narnman

2024-07-15 00:25:02 +0000 UTC

“Perhaps something occurred during transport Commander” Awesome line. Gives me chills. We know its meant to leave you wondering, but in our hearts we all know that he DID fire.

Chris S.

2024-07-15 00:24:21 +0000 UTC

Cool. Some of the folks on here are too harsh on you you guys. They forget this is the FIRST TIME you are seeing these episodes as if they’re in first-run. Maybe in front of each episode you should make that disclaimer? People just don’t get it sometimes. In 10-20 years, you might look back and feel differently about some episodes. I know I did. Trek fans are brutal. What were you thinking??? Lol. Kidding. I won’t spoil anything, but at least this isn’t “NuTrek”. Gulp. When it comes to that stuff…well… nitpick isn’t even the word.

Chris S.

2024-07-15 00:21:16 +0000 UTC

Yeah, gonna hard disagree here. That's fine, we can have different opinions. I thought Saul Rubinek was an incredible guest actor -- maybe one of the best of the series. I think you sometimes have a bit too little patience for the situation where the crew is behind what the audience knows. That CAN be boring, but I think it flowed organically here. That shouldn't be an audience mood killer, and often it doesn't hurt, but that always seems to rub you the wrong way. Just gonna disagree with that. Marvelous episode.

Ian Westcott

2024-07-15 00:21:09 +0000 UTC

Oh. Brent Spiner said at a convention (its on tape) that he DID commit suicide during the weekend, and called Rubinek quickly. But hey, it was a long time ago, and the actors do forget dates and details.

Chris S.

2024-07-15 00:14:37 +0000 UTC

Lol

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:13:58 +0000 UTC

Yeah...I have seen this episode several times but this is the first time I saw it.

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:12:58 +0000 UTC

Love the unplanned bit at the end!

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-07-15 00:12:35 +0000 UTC

We didn’t miss it, we literally say this in the discussion.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-15 00:11:26 +0000 UTC

So, when you said "it's been 3 weeks already" I think you missed a little bit. It hadn't been 3 weeks at all. So, the 3 weeks was for them to go get more of that substance they needed. They had just enough to do the job, but with no margin or error, hence why how far away/how long it would take to get more become relevant. They, however, went directly to the colony that needed it, the time to which, as far as I know, was never stated, but implied to be much less. Riker alerted another federation ship in the vicinity of the place where more of the substance could be sourced so if they did need more said ship could bring it to them, making 1 3 week trip, rather than 3 weeks there and 3 weeks back. I love your guys reactions, it makes me see things differently. I'd always assumed the thing about the disruptor being in a discharged state was because the bad guy shot the woman first, I just assumed it was that disruptor data had grabbed. But I think the point of the scene, and the way you guys took it, was that data had fired it right as the transport happened.

FPG

2024-07-15 00:08:00 +0000 UTC

I get ya. Hey a 7-8 is pretty good regardless. No worries. Sometimes I misinterpret your nitpicks. But they’re your thoughts and still valid. Would it be fair to say the script could have been “tighter”? You know, cut out some fat? It was still written and paced well though.

Chris S.

2024-07-15 00:07:33 +0000 UTC

Maybe they would have liked the David Rappenport version better (personally from the clips I've seen...I think Saul did better).

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:07:12 +0000 UTC

Another voice adding to the praise of Saul Rubinek. This was always an episode I enjoyed for general uniqueness. Cool premise and of course a Data episode typically makes a winner. Never top tier but enjoyable. This watch through I noticed something totally new. Saul Rubinek works up and drops a real tear when he remembers his sad upbringing, right before INSTANTLY revealing he's lying. He does this so casually I've never noticed it before. He's a master class actor and always stands out. I predict over time this episode will reveal itself to you as better than you initially thought.

Skipper Martin

2024-07-15 00:07:07 +0000 UTC

something i noticed for the first time ever when watching along: when kivas fajo is giving his fake background story how he grew up poor there was actual tears going down his face. wow what a faker, so evil he almost believes his own lie! that moment puts the actor's performance even higher for me

Narnman

2024-07-15 00:06:21 +0000 UTC

Yeah him sleeping with his clothes on is a connection to Picard telling him to rest. He didn't go back and lay down willing... he kept working on it till he basically collapsed on the bed exhausted with just enough energy to take off his visor. Makes perfect sense in the context of that and surprised they missed that.

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:05:42 +0000 UTC

Fair criticism on Data chilling at the controls. My biggest personal criticism is Picard ordering a warp 8 to rescue Data instead of warp 9. I mean come on....he did warp 9 to get rid of Troi's mom.

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:02:48 +0000 UTC

True.

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:01:27 +0000 UTC

Yeah this is their worse take ever....lol

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:01:12 +0000 UTC

You guys saying that Saul Rubinek wasn't good in this is 100% the worst take you two have ever had. By far... Really a terrible terrible take. But still I enjoyed your reaction. Even when I'm hate enjoying it. Lol

Greg Quinn

2024-07-15 00:00:31 +0000 UTC

I bet they like the next episode's guest actor!

Joe Concepts

2024-07-14 23:26:59 +0000 UTC

Really surprised by the criticisms of this episode. In particular, the actor who plays the villain was, in my opinion, fantastic. I believe that most people who watch this episode feel similarly.

WastedPo

2024-07-14 22:45:55 +0000 UTC

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Anthony Hopkins & Meryl Streep should be begging him for acting lessons. ;

startrekiborg

2024-07-14 22:44:41 +0000 UTC

Fajo's description of Data's life as a series of intellectual curiosities is a profound and accurate one.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:27:39 +0000 UTC

@KatWithAttitude @The Untempered Cynic Yes! Thanks.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:25:52 +0000 UTC

@Ken R Klingons have to talk about their honor constantly because it turns out that most of them don't actually have any.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:25:09 +0000 UTC

Josh or Alex want a glimpse at Troi's bloody corpse. LOL!

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:19:36 +0000 UTC

The only thing I don't like is how long it took Data to come out of the escape shuttle the second time. He didn't come out until Varria was screaming in agony.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:18:36 +0000 UTC

You are correct that the story would suffer if the use of the weapon were more ambiguous. But it's definitely not ambiguous: Data DID fire the Varon-T disruptor at Kivas Fajo. Riker knows it. You can see it all over his face. But Data did not admit to it (nor did he deny it). That is the most-fascinating spot in the episode.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:13:14 +0000 UTC

Because Data knew how much more paperwork would have been involved.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:03:18 +0000 UTC

His performance is the perfection of sleazy, selfish, and smarmy.

Jovet

2024-07-14 22:00:29 +0000 UTC

It seems like when a guest star comes in an plays a despicable character and does it really well , like Stubbs, instead of giving them props, they diss them.

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-07-14 21:45:03 +0000 UTC

Troi and worf have absolutely no chemistry together what writer would do that

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-07-14 21:25:14 +0000 UTC

The boys do seem extra nit picky of late

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-07-14 21:23:29 +0000 UTC

I thought this a great episode with a great performance from rubinek, and a great character building episode as Data wrestles with wanting to be human, confronts humanity’s darker impulses

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-07-14 21:10:49 +0000 UTC

Oh, there's some interesting episodes left this season 🙃

James Bottas

2024-07-14 21:08:13 +0000 UTC

Yea yea, you guys are better directors and writers, ehem

P S

2024-07-14 21:01:44 +0000 UTC

I know our commentary can sometimes seem harsh, which is why I gave that disclaimer towards the end that the episode is good. When I rate out of 10, a 5 is “fine” or a C, and anything 6 or above I would consider “good”. I’d probably go 7 on this one, so like a B- but this is Josh, I can’t speak for Alex. He’d probably go lower than me.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 20:58:49 +0000 UTC

Thanks. I think for whatever reason I am a “season” person and this season has had such a surplus of brilliance that the bar is quite high as a consequence. It will be reset at the start of season 4. Hopefully these last 4 episodes are good 😅

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 20:53:11 +0000 UTC

Na I'm definitely THE other fans. That's going to be my new name. Thanks.

THE Fans

2024-07-14 20:51:13 +0000 UTC

Oh 7 or 8 is a good score. Guess I can't read you guys, I thought you were making it a 5 or D... A score of 7 or 8 would make it a C or B?

THE Fans

2024-07-14 20:47:47 +0000 UTC

You guys are the best. Just saying, I hope you haven't raised that bar too high. Finding what's great in Star Trek will continue to very often mean looking for the good in very flawed episodes, as you guys know. <3

James Bottas

2024-07-14 20:33:08 +0000 UTC

It’s an okay episode. It’s not one that I typically rewatch but has merits on its own. There are parts that make it a bit long. Can’t disagree with the suggestions that would make it better.

JP RFL

2024-07-14 20:32:25 +0000 UTC

If the question is which one would you rather watch or only one of these can exist, then yes obviously the good one. The disappointment factor was the only thing we were comparing. I personally don’t get disappointed by “bad” episodes, maybe angry though lol

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 20:24:20 +0000 UTC

The choice to have Data lie about it to Riker, and I do think it was essentially a lie, was not the best way to execute that. That is what didn't work for me

James Bottas

2024-07-14 20:12:29 +0000 UTC

Thank you. I always enjoy your reaction/discussion videos and this was a bonus 2 for 1!

Ryan Caulfield

2024-07-14 20:09:29 +0000 UTC

Like you, I felt that this episode really fell flat in the writing. All the ingredients were there, but the pacing of the scenes was oddly slow, and many of the lines were dumbed-down explanations of what was obviously going on. Despite the interesting glimpses into the progression of Data's character, it's one of the more forgettable episodes for me.

Jeff

2024-07-14 20:09:00 +0000 UTC

I mean, I see what you're saying, but no, not at all lol. I will happy take a good episode that arguably could have been great, over a bad episode

James Bottas

2024-07-14 20:06:19 +0000 UTC

The Squire of Gothos is the name of the TOS episode featuring Trelane

Eric Kelly

2024-07-14 20:05:44 +0000 UTC

I know my comment makes it seem like that's my only take away lol... because it's the only example I mention. It's not just that though. The disbelief that Data would be sufficiently held captive, as another example. Wishing half the episode, the Enterprise crew piecing together the mystery, was cut.. I'm just not with some of these critiques

James Bottas

2024-07-14 20:03:43 +0000 UTC

Actually have no problem with Data killing him. It’s “logical” given Data’s circumstance and one could argue since Data is a machine the morality of killing wouldn’t apply the same as it would to a human. Or at the very least it’s a great conversation. Unfortunately, the show imo botches the whole sequence so that conversation doesn’t matter

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 20:02:25 +0000 UTC

Last episode was “just” good, and that was fine. It depends on the episode. I think the framing of our discussion here as “turning our nose up” is wildly inaccurate. Truly surprised anyone would disagree that a good episode with the potential to be excellent but falling short is more disappointing than an episode that’s not good.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 20:00:03 +0000 UTC

Good points

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 19:54:28 +0000 UTC

If our main criticism of the episode was Geordi sleeping in his uniform then I’d agree, but it was a minor comment, which for whatever reason is what everyone always focuses on instead of our real criticisms of the episode. For a prior example - “Q would know what eating is, just not the experience of eating” was not our actual criticism of Deja Q, but it’s the one thing people focused on for some reason.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 19:53:40 +0000 UTC

Planet Hell

Lincynity

2024-07-14 19:41:02 +0000 UTC

He attempted suicide during filming. He succeeded with another attempt a few months later.

Lincynity

2024-07-14 19:40:26 +0000 UTC

I think Data pulling the trigger, an attempt to kill Fajo, makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but he had no evidence that rescue was going to happen. Even if he did expect to be rescued, what if Fajo hurt or killed someone else in the time it takes? I think Data calculated it as a defensive act that would prevent more murder by Fajo

James Bottas

2024-07-14 19:36:15 +0000 UTC

in this video what you guys explain is that episodes now fall into one of three columns: A: elite tier like Yesterday's Enterprise. B: "Just" good, which is now bad and you'd prefer garbage over or C: Garbage. Hasn't Star Trek Earned a bit more than that by this point fellas? Turning your noses up at two thirds of the journey would get rough, no?

James Bottas

2024-07-14 19:21:33 +0000 UTC

Strong episode and in my opinion you guys are way off with most of your nitpicks on this one. Geordi sleeping in his clothes... well, he didn't want to rest, he wanted to keep investigating the shuttle explosion. He was ordered to rest. So it stands to reason that he decided to take a nap for an hour or two and get back to work. Hasn't literally everyone taken a quick nap without fully disrobing or changing into full on pajamas?? Sorry, but I think this is an example of you guys simply not being in the mood to give the episode the "buy-in" that it deserves

James Bottas

2024-07-14 19:18:46 +0000 UTC

Don't know the Trek lore of ships name Grissom, but I'm sure they are an homage to Gus Grissom, Mercury and Apollo astronaut who died (with two others) on the pad for Apollo 1.

C

2024-07-14 19:02:04 +0000 UTC

This episode is not in my top 10 or anything, but I'm still surprised you guys didn't like it a bit more, though I understand your reasons. I think Saul Rubinek as Fajo was quite good, but I tend to like him as a TV actor in general, so perhaps there is some bias there. And, despite the flawed execution, I really like the idea of the moral and upstanding Data being confronted by someone who has no morals or respect for life at all. I also appreciate that Geordie cannot accept that Data would ever not follow protocol or make a mistake, which is a good counterpoint to the ending. In my view, if the firing of the disruptor were more ambiguous, it would be too easy to dismiss as something Data would never do. I think it's far more fascinating that Data probably did fire (though it's still not made 100% definitive) and he is the only one who will ever know that. It shows how human he can be when circumstances allow and that he has the capacity for character growth beyond his programming. When Data evades Riker's question, I always saw that less as him lying to Riker and more about him trying to come to terms with what he had just done. In my mind, Data himself was just as shocked/appalled as we were that he had actually pulled the trigger, so to speak. Also, it's a very small thing, but I really like how Fajo constantly refers to Data as "just" an android which sounds very limiting or derogatory. And then at the end, Data responds back that he is "only" an android which is a subtle difference but more of a positive spin, I'd say.

Ryan Caulfield

2024-07-14 18:48:28 +0000 UTC

I believe they called it Planet Hell.

KatWithAttitude

2024-07-14 18:46:30 +0000 UTC

He did not commit suicide during the filming of this episode.

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:27:40 +0000 UTC

The cast and crew had a nickname for that set. Anyone remember it?

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:27:01 +0000 UTC

People are free to think what they want, it is just funny to me as I'd say TOS had better writing, but on Earth-TNG "My name is Worf, I have honor" is considered to be deep and complex, but Spock being written to have honor yet never having to talk about it because it was written so we can see it , that is somehow simplistic and unsophisticated. To each their own.

Ken R

2024-07-14 18:25:18 +0000 UTC

1:07:02 ROTFL!!! Counselor Worf!

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:12:28 +0000 UTC

This episode is one of the few episodes of Trek where we knew right before or very shortly after (the actor died what something like 5 days before the episode aired?), that the production of the episode had been dramatically impacted by things outside of the control off the producers. And it was fairly rare at this time, do get any real information about behind the scenes events in any such timely manner. Because of that I tend to be a little more gentile about my criticism. For example it was known before it aired that the Season 2's opener was a rushed reuse of a unused Phase 2 script, due to the rush to get something, anything ready to shoot after the long strike. Thanks to convention, it was known to be who followed behind the scenes stuff in Trek that Shades of Grey was a clip show. As some of the actors mentioned it once the ended filming (which was months before it eventually aired. But for the most part at this time we didn't get real behind the scenes info until summer convention schedules that included actors, writers, and production personal. So often months sometimes years afterwards.

Mark Wood

2024-07-14 18:11:11 +0000 UTC

Kirk was lying in bed during Obsession when McCoy comes to see him about Ensign Garrovick. Not sure if he was asleep. I can put an image under Community of Kirk actually asleep in his quarters but I don't remember what episode it is.

KatWithAttitude

2024-07-14 18:05:37 +0000 UTC

Pitch forks? You mean plot alternatives in the episode pitch??

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:05:27 +0000 UTC

The Chorus was killed from the outside-in. Varria was killed from the inside-out.

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:03:18 +0000 UTC

@Chris S. That was later.

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:02:29 +0000 UTC

Thank heavens they axed that.

Jovet

2024-07-14 18:01:47 +0000 UTC

This is an A episode. Josh and Alex are flat-out wrong. Maybe they'll appreciate it more in the future.

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:57:35 +0000 UTC

They had to film the whole thing twice, was part of the problem, after Fajo's original actor committed suicide.

Artribution

2024-07-14 17:56:58 +0000 UTC

Nice, thanks Collin. I do remember in Tholian Web we see Uhura in her quarters not in uniform, but she wasn’t sleeping.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:56:40 +0000 UTC

It was also seen in Conspiracy, Where Silence Has Lease, and The Enemy

Doug

2024-07-14 17:56:06 +0000 UTC

50:31 Horse hockey.

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:55:22 +0000 UTC

It was a later attempt that was successful. Not the one during the filming of this episode.

Lincynity

2024-07-14 17:54:25 +0000 UTC

You were right about the cave being the same as the one from Captain's Holiday. That cave set with the steps gets reused a few times.

Doug

2024-07-14 17:53:29 +0000 UTC

Yeah, this is a fantastic episode. One of the best of S3.

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:51:30 +0000 UTC

Yes, named after Mercury astronaut Gus Grissom and presumably the name was reused when they christened another ship since the previous one was blown to bits.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-14 17:51:09 +0000 UTC

You are not 'THE other fans'. I agree for the most part with Josh and Alex. Beginning and ending were great. But the middle was meh.

Sam Langanke

2024-07-14 17:48:12 +0000 UTC

I would agree with you, TA. Closer to an 8 for me. Missed potential but still a good episode.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-14 17:48:02 +0000 UTC

Good thought

Collin Freeman

2024-07-14 17:46:37 +0000 UTC

Or using them as projectiles against Fajo long distance...

StonyD

2024-07-14 17:46:12 +0000 UTC

What use would Starfleet have in a officer, android or not, who would not kill if they were ordered to? Its literally in the job description.

Alan Thompson

2024-07-14 17:45:59 +0000 UTC

41:02 No the belt would not block that. (More specifically, the forcefield device attached to his belt.)

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:45:44 +0000 UTC

40:32 Much more gruesome than the Chorus getting zapped.

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:45:25 +0000 UTC

I think he tries to sleep in Amok Time but is restless, then calls the bridge and asks Chekhov how long will they be delayed if they divert to Vulcan. He was in his uniform then. Also Bones goes to sleep in his uniform in The Man Trap with some help from some sleeping pills.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-14 17:45:06 +0000 UTC

Won’t speak for anyone else, but for the record whenever we say it’s like TOS it’s rarely ever negative. We obviously love that series.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:34:34 +0000 UTC

I find it funny the way people frequently use TOS here as a knock " oh, it felt like TOS" when the most TOS episode we've seen so far is YE.

Ken R

2024-07-14 17:28:54 +0000 UTC

Somehow, I can't pin it down, but this episode feels like a misplaced TOS episode. A C-tier episode with B and A tier moments sprinkled in.

Chris Mickelson

2024-07-14 17:21:48 +0000 UTC

Please explain what was fickle about anything in our reasoning. Also, Jovet was also wrong. He said we would hate it. We liked it overall.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:20:36 +0000 UTC

29:58 "Picard not great with names lately." LOL!!!

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:16:00 +0000 UTC

You were right. I was wrong. They are fickle. ;

startrekiborg

2024-07-14 17:13:21 +0000 UTC

Has nothing to do with anger. My guess would be the guy doesn’t value Data over his entire collection (or at least what’s in that room) and nothing is stopping Data from destroying it. I don’t think not wanting to break things that belongs to others would outweigh being a slave to Data.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:13:00 +0000 UTC

I think it was a 7 or 8 with 10 potential. That’s why it’s frustrating.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:11:39 +0000 UTC

We said we were OK with knowing about Data when they didn’t, the issue was them spending a bunch screen time trying to figure it out instead of more scenes with Data

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:09:36 +0000 UTC

We nit pick every single episode, people only point it out when they disagree with us

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:07:57 +0000 UTC

It is a good episode. That’s why it’s frustrating.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:07:03 +0000 UTC

Yeah, as an Ohioan I’m aware of the BUST Courtney Brown. I thought he was 2001 draft not 2000 for some reason. I was young.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:06:37 +0000 UTC

18:46 No, it was going to take 16 hours to get to their destination. If they needed more hytritium, it would take 3 weeks to get to where it is. The USS Grissom is closer to where it is than the Enterprise.

Jovet

2024-07-14 17:06:12 +0000 UTC

Was there ever a scene of Kirk asleep in his quarters? I genuinely don’t remember.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-07-14 17:05:45 +0000 UTC

It’s a solid episode, its strength lies in the crews reactions to Data’s “death” and I’ve always loved the ambiguous ending. Not one of my top 6 of the season but falls somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Darren Seal

2024-07-14 17:04:02 +0000 UTC

I think considering the circumstances Saul Rubinek did a great job, can’t have been easy being dropped in last minute and refilming stuff that had already been done

Darren Seal

2024-07-14 17:03:20 +0000 UTC

All great episodes. Every one! Seriously you bring up great points but hey, it's television... BTW, this episode was written by my friends cousin.

Michael Metrick

2024-07-14 16:56:10 +0000 UTC

I loved it too. But its their opinion, which is okay. I’m not sure that those “not so great” parts really ruined the episode at all. Were the parts of the crew trying to figure it out unnecessary? Sorry, but I dont think they were. Thats what they should have been doing. Not perfect. But a little overboard with the nitpicking. But thats just me. One if the best of season 3.

Chris S.

2024-07-14 16:52:34 +0000 UTC

It was a successful suicide attempt unfortunately. David Rappaport. Very sad.

Chris S.

2024-07-14 16:46:23 +0000 UTC

A rule of screenwriting: give the audience information that the characters don’t have.I don’t think this episode could have worked any other way because you’d have to pick one. Either Data’s scenes, or the crew’s. This is a great episode. Not the best, but a solid “B”. I know you guys like to try to figure out the mystery as it goes along, but it just won’t work on many stories. When the audience knows what’s going on but the characters don’t it gives you a reason to rout them on.

Chris S.

2024-07-14 16:39:42 +0000 UTC

Fajo says "You want to see me beg for mercy? You're not going to get any of that." And he proceeds to sit down. After he had to force Data to finally sit down just hours before. Later he touches the confinement force field, just like Data touched the confinement force field. Nice details in the script.

James Baloun

2024-07-14 16:39:14 +0000 UTC

I've never liked this one and usually skip it. But this is mainly because I find episodes centering around sleezy villains to be difficult to watch. And I especially can't stand watching anything by Saul Rubinek for this exact reason. The guy is good at what he does, but there is something about him that just always oozes extra sleeze. I don't get that effect when I watch this episode with the original actor. So I always thought that was just my personal bias preventing me from enjoying a great episode that everyone else liked. But you guys brought up good points. Like "The Hunted," this episode suffers from execution problems, and could have been a lot better if it were executed differently. I find this episode boring too for that reason, and there is a lot that I don't buy into. Particularly, why would Data lie at the end? I can see him making the logical decision to kill somebody even though, as he said in "The Hunted" he is not programmed to kill. But why would he lie about it afterwards? as you said, he'd just explain his logical conclusion to Riker.

BN13

2024-07-14 16:35:36 +0000 UTC

My patron take was accurate because you guys take the time to explain what you like and what you dislike clearly and honestly. So I saw you guys struggling with certain parts of this episode but that you'd still enjoy it. You'd just wish it had been even better than it was.

Timothy Keck

2024-07-14 16:17:58 +0000 UTC

I didnt find it boring at all on 1st airing and repeats. Intriguing actually in that we get to know more about Data and analysing just how far his programming will go. And thought Saul Rubinek: Kivas Fajo did a wonderful job in his acting. A little nit picking in this episode I thought. (Yep I love Captains Holiday and adore Tin Man episode!) But glad you at least liked it a little bit. It also shows collecting material things just for your own pleasure and "showing off" what you have reenforces and emptiness with something missing from in this case, his life. (just my opinion of course, and have collected things before but then sell them on to someone who will actually make good use of them) The discharged phaser during transport is very interesting and again progresses and evolves Data another step further...

Andrew Bassey

2024-07-14 16:15:07 +0000 UTC

I've always thought this was a good episode. Perhaps some of these episodes seem better to those of us who have seen the entire series in relation to the entire body of episodes. I agree, though that they might have had a stronger reaction to Data being "dead," but like with Tasha's death they had to complete the mission, before they had time to grieve. And by the time the mission was complete Geordi was all ready onto the idea that Data might still be alive. (It was three weeks travel to get more of the substance they needed, it was only hours to the planet that was contaminated, so Data had been gone for only about 2 days) Your taking of a break from ST:TNG is coming at a good time. I think some of your reaction might be coming from a boredom with the series.

Stevtrek

2024-07-14 16:08:22 +0000 UTC

I respectfully disagree. It was a logical decision. The only way to stop his reign of terror was to shoot him. Imp

startrekiborg

2024-07-14 16:03:26 +0000 UTC

the number one draft pick the year Brady was drafted was Courtney Brown, a defensive end drafted by the Cleveland Browns. He had a productive rookie season but struggled to stay healthy the rest of his career, a good example for your analogy.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 15:40:47 +0000 UTC

"I am the third act..." lmao!!

StonyD

2024-07-14 15:38:06 +0000 UTC

I Give up

startrekiborg

2024-07-14 15:35:45 +0000 UTC

The guest star's acting wasn't good enough?!!! You guys are on drugs. Or too much Fireball.

startrekiborg

2024-07-14 15:33:24 +0000 UTC

Funny, I don't recall any complaints in TOS during the many times Kirk was shown sleeping in his uniform. Or maybe you did. It's been a long time since I rewatched a TOS reaction. Another episode where we'll just have to agree to disagree. Fair enough.

KatWithAttitude

2024-07-14 15:28:08 +0000 UTC

There are deleted scenes on the blu-ray with the original actor David Rappaport as The Collector, which might be worth reacting to as a bonus item.

Matt Everkoul

2024-07-14 15:27:37 +0000 UTC

At the time Data was contemplating shooting him, he didn't know that the Enterprise had figured out he wasn't dead. Presumably after killing the guy he could have escaped, but the point is it was an "emotional" decision, not a rational one.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 15:22:34 +0000 UTC

This episode is a popular one and by many considered almost seminal, but mostly because of the questions it raises about Data and how limited by his programming he is. Is he more human than even he realises? I personally think it's the right story told in the wrong order. Had it been shown entirely from the Enterprise POV after Data entered the shuttle, we were shown them trying to come to terms with his death. Then had them go "OK so this contamination is suss. Wait this dude is a collector? F me! We need to track down and talk to this prick." Then had Data wake up, make Varia a more sympathetic character and shown the situation getting dangerous. The audience would be on the edge of their seats waiting for the Enterprise to arrive. Instead we only got that tension for the escape attempt. Maybe if they hadn't been on the backfoot with losing filming days they could have made improvements. Who knows. But from the cut scenes, it wasn't Rappaport's best work, and with hindsight we know he wasn't in a good place. So it may have never been destined to be as good as it might have been.

Lincynity

2024-07-14 15:17:55 +0000 UTC

They also cut a scene- Fazio or whatever sent in Varya to try and seduce him because he knew Data was "fully functional" and wanted to see him having sex, Data rejects her which humiliates her and is part of her arc of turning against her captor/lover, but the producers axed that scene

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 15:14:56 +0000 UTC

yeah, the original actor with the makeup might have been better but his suicide attempt forced a new actor and a quick reshoot. I thought he was ok.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 15:13:27 +0000 UTC

He described the belt as interfering with Positronic activity. Presumably its also some kind of charge as it knocked Data backwards. It also feels like we've seen something similar to the vernon t disruptor but with a more dramatic effect in the episode where the deaf guy with the "chorus" had his chorus killed, but that seemed to work more like described here. I guess it was a prototype

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 15:02:52 +0000 UTC

Maybe the panel for the gun only lets you do so many attempts before it locks out and Data has tried before so he is guessing combos.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:54:03 +0000 UTC

I think there might be a disconnect again between you guys and the other fans. This is definitely a 10/10 for me.

THE Fans

2024-07-14 14:51:07 +0000 UTC

I half-agree with them. Structure it completely from Data's POV, the entire episode is mind games Fajo is playing with him, and at the end when he goes to fire, he suddenly gets transported, we play out as we saw in the episode, with the caveat we hear that our crew figured it out off screen (because by S3 they are all just that good, we don't need to see the steps). I think it would have been stronger, along with tightening up the whole personal forcefield idea (or scrapping it for a different method to hold Data at bay while allowing dynamic camera shots in their interactions).

StonyD

2024-07-14 14:46:01 +0000 UTC

The site of the contamination was 16 hours away, as Riker noted in the hook. The backup supply of hytritium was three weeks away, and they signaled the Grissom to stand by there in case they needed to grab that too. The whole episode takes place in 2-3 days, more or less.

tyranusfan

2024-07-14 14:40:55 +0000 UTC

Recall Geordi had been running himself ragged, he just crashed without bothering to take off his uniform

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:39:08 +0000 UTC

Troi and Worf together?! Now there’s an interesting idea. Maybe in a parallel universe.

Lwaxana’s Poolboy

2024-07-14 14:37:19 +0000 UTC

you guys seemed especially nitpicky starting this one. As far as the three weeks, I think Data is mostly alone. Fajo's sees him as an item, part of his colection, he's not interacting with him all the time.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:33:01 +0000 UTC

The various items are valuable one of a kind treasures. Data doesn't act from anger, smashing them wouldn't make any sense, it wouldn't make Kivas set him free and most of the items are stolen. Data isn't going to destroy valuable property for no reason.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:26:05 +0000 UTC

I’m here for the pitch forks

Phil Ken Sebben

2024-07-14 14:24:25 +0000 UTC

it's Salvador Dali, and the painting is called "The Persistence of Memory"

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:19:17 +0000 UTC

There are a couple types of mysteries in stories: the ones where the truth is discovered by the viewer/reader and by the protagonists at the same time, and ones where the truth is revealed early on to the viewer/reader but the protagonist doesn't discover it until the end. The first types are the Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie stories and the where you're basically with the protagonist the whole time. The latter however works better for this type of story, where you are also with the antagonist and see what he's doing. The entertainment is in experiencing the protagonists uncover the mystery, seeing their thought processes. I'm not sure there is a proper, other place they could have put the uncovering of the mystery to the audience and still had time to play out the dynamic between Data and Kivas Fajo (which is a fun name to say). This second type isn't a mystery story, just a story which contains a mystery. I do agree they could have had more about the emotional impact this had on the crew, but with 45 minutes, a story has to pick its scenes. Also, strongly disagree about your take on Saul Rubinek - he's a excellent actor and has been in a lot of movies and tv, but all things art are a matter of taste

Vina

2024-07-14 14:12:44 +0000 UTC

And presumably named after Gus Grissom.

Mike Rogers

2024-07-14 14:09:31 +0000 UTC

So the writers wanted it more explicit that Data did shoot but the producers wanted it more ambiguous. I think he did shoot but was not lying, his program told him he didn't since it was ambiguous as he did but didn't. Originally there was a different actor playing Kivasnwith more alien makeup, sort of troll looking. He was short and they wanted to have his ship be scaled to his size. The actor attempted suicide after some shooting, and they had to reshoot things with a new actor (who works well). The original actor did commit suicide 2 months later. This is a hard one for me as I like it but for whatever reason they replay it so much in syndication, I feel like I have each scene memorized and it's hard to separate that from my original feelings on it, though I did enjoy it. It always feel to go fast for me.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:06:40 +0000 UTC

The writers wanted it to be more explicit he did shoot but the producers wanted it more ambiguous. This is one case where I think the producers were right.

paultardspambot .

2024-07-14 14:02:50 +0000 UTC

Grissom was the ship from your favorite movie, Josh! FOR FUCKS SAKE BRO. What you guys don't understand is... No, i'm kidding. Hey, if you love A B plots where we're ahead of the characters in one storyline, just you wait! Hoo boy. Saul Rubinek is a great character actor, and he does a great job with Kivas. I do wish the episode was ENTIRELY focused around the two banger of Data and Vajo, though.

Steven Johnson

2024-07-14 14:01:55 +0000 UTC

The first version of Spider-Man that I ever saw was the version on The Electric Company. He didn't talk (he used word balloons and I was too young to read at the time). He was scary as fuck.

Darin Wagner

2024-07-14 13:59:49 +0000 UTC

He didn't outright lie, it was more of a... misdirection? "Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander." It's fuzzy

Vina

2024-07-14 13:58:04 +0000 UTC

(Posting without watching the reaction and discussion yet. Due to the heat wave, I haven't felt like synching up the Blu-rays with the reactions for several days. This is also why I haven't commented on "Hollow Pursuits" yet -- I didn't remember it well enough to comment without rewatching it.) Along with “Yesterday’s Enterprise,” “The Offspring” and “Sins of the Father,” “The Most Toys” is one of my six top-ranked Season 3 episodes. Other Star Trek fans do not necessarily hold this episode in as high regard as I do; it is perfectly understandable to prefer “Who Watches the Watchers,” “The Bonding,” “The Enemy” or “The Defector” to “The Most Toys.” However, I personally find this episode more interesting than those others. (“A Matter of Perspective” is also a personal favorite of mine, as it is for Alex and Josh; for some reason the TNG production team seems not to have realized how good it was.) I have an unusual but beautiful memory of watching this episode with my late mother. Mom was a huge Data fan, and I had always been under the impression that she had loved this episode, which we originally saw sometime in the 1990s. Around 2010, when Mom was terminally ill, I mentioned the episode to her and was surprised to discover that she did not remember it. However, when I showed it to her on DVD, she loved it just as much as I had remembered her loving it the first time. There is an outlandish theory about this episode floating around the Internet for which there is no evidence either in the episode or outside it: that Kivas Fajo is a hostile parody of the title character of "Doctor Who." Fajo and the Doctor have nothing in common other than being eccentrics who answer to no higher authority and travel with attractive young women. One could say the same of the Count of Monte Cristo, and no one claims that Fajo is a satire of that character. There is a tendency for "Doctor Who" fans to dislike and resent Star Trek, perhaps because they consider it too conformist or because it was so much more popular than "Doctor Who" for so long, whereas Star Trek fans tend to love "Doctor Who" and consider themselves faithful Whovians. (This fascinates me because, although I have been a fan of both shows for my entire adult life, I started watching "Star Trek" about three years before "Doctor Who.") This may explain the origin of such a farfetched and implausible theory concerning “The Most Toys.” The production of “The Most Toys” experienced one of the saddest behind-the-scenes events in Star Trek’s history. British actor David Rappaport, who was a little person and had starred in the 1986-1987 CBS series "The Wizard," was the initial choice for the role of Kivas Fajo. (Gates McFadden was a member of "The Wizard"’s original cast, appearing in the pilot episode, but another character replaced her for the later episodes.) Timothy Bond, the director of “The Most Toys,” wanted the sets of Fajo’s ship built to match Rappaport’s size, with four-foot-high ceilings, forcing everyone else to bend over while in his domain; fortunately, as it turned out, the rest of the production team overruled Bond. Rappaport, who suffered from depression, began filming the episode (a selection of his completed scenes appears on the Season 3 Blu-ray), but attempted to take his own life over the weekend during production, necessitating the recasting of the role. Tragically, Rappaport shot himself to death two months later, three days before the first broadcast of “The Most Toys.” For the first time since “The Alternative Factor” in 1966 (and under far more distressing circumstances), Star Trek had to recast the main guest star of an episode on an emergency basis at the last minute. Canadian actor Saul Rubinek, a Trekkie who had gone to school with Bond, was in Los Angeles at the time and called Bond to ask if he could visit the TNG sets. When Bond got back to him, he asked, “How much do you want to see these sets?” While the late Robert Brown’s performance as Lazarus in “The Alternative Factor” is impressive when one takes into consideration the circumstances under which he was working, Rubinek’s performance as Kivas Fajo is simply magnificent, making the character one of the most memorable and compelling villains in TNG’s run. Rappaport had been playing Fajo with prosthetic makeup that made clear he was an alien, but there was no time to modify the prosthetic for Rubinek, who played the role with a simple facial tattoo. Both for this reason and due to changes in her character’s look that Jane Daly (Varria) requested and received with Gene Roddenberry’s approval, makeup supervisor Michael Westmore considered “The Most Toys” his least favorite of the Star Trek episodes on which he worked. Rubinek’s other TV guest roles include two episodes of the 1990s revival of "The Outer Limits" and an episode of Ronald D. Moore’s current series, "For All Mankind." Nehemiah Persoff (Toff) played the lead role in the original "Twilight Zone" episode “Judgment Night.” He also guest-starred in "Wonder Woman": “Formula 407” and, as the Eastern Alliance Leader, in "Battlestar Galactica": “Experiment in Terra” (the same episode that featured John de Lancie in a small role). Persoff was among the longest-lived Star Trek actors; he passed away in 2022 at the age of 102. Jane Daly appeared in a 1999 segment of "Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction." Finally, this episode’s effect on Michael Piller was to cause him to start collecting baseball cards.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-07-14 13:47:34 +0000 UTC

Discussion right after: I like the right after discussion when thoughts are fresh; I like the waiting to gather thoughts discussion; Can't have both except in a mirror mirror universe. But mirror universe does not exist. Although, a clean shaven mirror mirror Josh and Alex wearing suits would be pretty awesome.

Prof Moff

2024-07-14 13:23:51 +0000 UTC

The Grissom was the ship the Klingons attacked and destroyed in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.

Collin Freeman

2024-07-14 13:03:20 +0000 UTC

So, did Data intend to shoot Fajo..? If so, he would have commited murder - and would have been lying to Riker about the disruptor discharge once back on the Enterprise. If not, he would have allowed Fajo to keep killing others in future. A great open ended ethical question...

The Ninth Doctor

2024-07-14 12:42:44 +0000 UTC

A terrific episode for Brent Spiner and a truly tragic back history regarding the production of this story. Given the dark circumstances, it's amazing what the end result was - onscreen.

William McRae

2024-07-14 12:39:58 +0000 UTC

Hoping you guys are as enamored with Data’s last line in this episode. I replay that last minute over and over. Such a great scene and acting by Brent Spiner

Glenn Zigli

2024-07-14 12:39:24 +0000 UTC

Just in time for my pizza, ta lads!

SinocTheHodgeheg

2024-07-14 12:39:19 +0000 UTC

UNCUT REACTION & DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E22 - The Most Toys

Comments

I like this one a bit more than you guys. I think it's strong in the characterisation of Data and I think the ending is well judged. The fake crying over Data's death is less strong.

The RedLetterMedia guys actually have that uniform from this episode. After it was dissolving the outfit and had the patch on the chest. They bought it from some prop house a while back and have used it in a couple of their videos.

Well, I pretty much am on the same page you guys on everything. Except Saul Rubinek. I always forget the episode exists except for his performance. My favorite kind of Star Trek actor, campy and flamboyant, but able to still handle subtle scenes.

data’s forced servitude and moral dilemma over killing, the sense loss amongst the crew, and utter repugnance of the collector, the acting from pretty much everyone makes it work.

How so?

Data "did" his "first murder" which turned out not to happen. He didn't *have* to shoot Fajo, he chose to. It's profound for the character.

🙄

@Spencer Loften I can excuse or kind-of-understand all their criticism of this one EXCEPT for the ones about Rubinek's performance. He was gold, absolutely fantastic. Really makes me wonder what episode they were watching! 🤷

this episode hits hard for me

The "Courtney Brown" of Star Trek the Next Generation

here's a video comparing the two actors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcN4upJ3FQ4

Isn’t that a little like saying a so-so day in my life that could have been better is worse than a really bad day?

Who was asked on a Saturday or Sunday and showed up for work Monday morning.

Gotta say I'm not feelin' you guys' vibe on this one. I think perhaps there was a little too much focus on the out-of-story production content. You missed a very good episode, Data growing beyond his programming darkly and even lying to Riker.

Right when Data tells Riker "something must have happened in transport" and you can see on Rikers face the realization "Data just lied to me"

@Andreas Schmitt I think we all know why he pulled the trigger. He said it, "I cannot permit this to continue." – Fajo's manipulation, criminality, selfishness, reign over his subordinates, etc. The real question is: Why did he not admit all the facts to Cmdr Riker?

You might want to check out the Galifrey Gals reaction to this episode.

Really? I never watched enough of that show.

I remember him placing the nicest guy in the world on Frasier. Great actor.

Yep days before this episode aired.

Sorry I didn't mean to be offensive, it was just an idea so that you might have more fun in the long run. But your journey, your decision. I will definitely keep watching. :)

We are watching everything. Thank you for appreciating our honesty.

I'm not so sure about this. I think our guys will absolutely destroy 2 of the last 4 episodes. In the other two, I think they will at least recognize their potential. Either way it will be entertaining. :D

I highly disagree with that statement Josh.

This one is in my top ten all time TNG episodes, mostly because of the genius performance from Saul Rubinek.

You have a higher opinion of this episode than I do. It is one I will skip.

Not only that, I also feel Brent Spiner's performance in the finished episode was MUCH better. I think those two actors just played off eachother better.

It was a ship in Star Trek III and yes, it was an homage to Gus Grissom.

That’s fair. For the record our problem was the execution of it, not Data shooting Fajo, but I’m glad it worked for you.

But they disagree about stuff all the time?

Agree Saul did better...the finger snap to transmit the sensory data....

I've thought about how Data could have hit him with a object. Heck he could have grabbed the Roger Maris card and whipped it into Fajo like a throwing star.

I support the show's choice to show us Data resisting his good friend's deliciously-terrible character versus making us think he was dead the whole time.

What they need to understand is... if they start "chef kissing" I may unsubscribe! LOL!!!

Exactly! Data does have "secrets," too.

Yes, Data pulled the trigger. O'Brien says “It seems to have discharged, sir.”

@Column Meanie Ditto.

(I was joking, of course.)

@Andreas Schmitt Well stated.

Every single character ever shown in bed in TOS was in uniform.

I always thought this one was "fine." It was a Star Trek. That I watched.

That makes Josh's flub on his name fraking hilarious

You see, what you guys need to understand is.....

Noticed the crocodile tear for the first time on this viewing as well.

The comment about Data taking him in to the law was off the mark. As far as he knew at that point, the Enterprise thought he was dead and was never going to come for him, and he just lost his only way out. He was stuck there. He was the only one who could stop this guy.

All I'll say on Saul Rubinek was that he made Kivas Fajo a LOT more fun to watch than Dr. Stubbs.

Why do they keep kidnapping the crew? 🤣

Perhaps if the character plays his role well enough, they have a hard time separating the actor and the character? Because I agree, I hated the character, but the actor played him phenomenally well.

I mean no matter what we end up thinking of it, the content is going to be *chef’s kiss*

Thanks Chris, I think people want to see us love what they love so when we don’t (even when we still like it) they get frustrated. I get it. Getting mad at one of our reactions is like a right of passage to be a Target Audience fan lol.

These guys on the season three finale: "We enjoyed the episode, it was solid enough...it could have been excellent, but..."

I feel you on the heat wave man. I am not a summer person

We are just saying what we would have liked to see, I’m not sure what you’re questioning

We aren’t forgetting, we just don’t accept that as an excuse for the show not being good when the same 90s show is good all the time. We didn’t excuse TOS for being a 60s show either. If someone wants to that’s fine, but we don’t. That’s always been the case.

Their sometimes misguided criticism of excellent episodes no longer surprises me. However I do remain entertained by their analyses. 😁

Love watching you guys but you have yet to propose a better ending to any of the episodes this season, and this one is no different. Are you making these suggestions because you genuinely think the endings are broken? Or are you just trying to one-up the writers/directors?

I think they are forgetting they are watching a 90s television show. Writers in the 90s didn’t trust their audiences like they do today.

I thought about that lol. Maybe he was just trying to avoid disciplinary action. Still even that's not data's style.

Also, it wasn't 3 weeks. It was 16 hours to the Enterprise's destination. 3 weeks was how long it would take if they needed to take a detour to get more of the chemical.

yeah and pardon this pun : a real eye opener

“Perhaps something occurred during transport Commander” Awesome line. Gives me chills. We know its meant to leave you wondering, but in our hearts we all know that he DID fire.

Oh. Brent Spiner said at a convention (its on tape) that he DID commit suicide during the weekend, and called Rubinek quickly. But hey, it was a long time ago, and the actors do forget dates and details.

Lol

Yeah...I have seen this episode several times but this is the first time I saw it.

Love the unplanned bit at the end!

We didn’t miss it, we literally say this in the discussion.

I get ya. Hey a 7-8 is pretty good regardless. No worries. Sometimes I misinterpret your nitpicks. But they’re your thoughts and still valid. Would it be fair to say the script could have been “tighter”? You know, cut out some fat? It was still written and paced well though.

Maybe they would have liked the David Rappenport version better (personally from the clips I've seen...I think Saul did better).

something i noticed for the first time ever when watching along: when kivas fajo is giving his fake background story how he grew up poor there was actual tears going down his face. wow what a faker, so evil he almost believes his own lie! that moment puts the actor's performance even higher for me

Fair criticism on Data chilling at the controls. My biggest personal criticism is Picard ordering a warp 8 to rescue Data instead of warp 9. I mean come on....he did warp 9 to get rid of Troi's mom.

True.

Yeah this is their worse take ever....lol

You guys saying that Saul Rubinek wasn't good in this is 100% the worst take you two have ever had. By far... Really a terrible terrible take. But still I enjoyed your reaction. Even when I'm hate enjoying it. Lol

I bet they like the next episode's guest actor!

Really surprised by the criticisms of this episode. In particular, the actor who plays the villain was, in my opinion, fantastic. I believe that most people who watch this episode feel similarly.

ABSOLUTELY!!!! Anthony Hopkins & Meryl Streep should be begging him for acting lessons. ;

Fajo's description of Data's life as a series of intellectual curiosities is a profound and accurate one.

@KatWithAttitude @The Untempered Cynic Yes! Thanks.

Data "did" his "first murder" which turned out not to happen. He didn't have to shoot Fajo, he chose to. It's profound for the character.

I mean no matter what we end up thinking of it, the content is going to be chef’s kiss