FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E21 - Hollow Pursuits
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Comments
For anyone interested in what the difference is between introversion and autism in cases where it might not be so clear, check out a youtube channel called Autism from the Inside. Specifically, this video by him is why I think Barclay is actually autistic, not just introverted or social anxiety. (Video contains nothing about Star Trek whatsoever, so no risk of spoilers) https://youtu.be/y9bwUb-M1Bg?si=cQODrsSsZf0VeQ28
BN13
2024-07-26 19:43:52 +0000 UTCI agree. Introversion and neurodivergence are completely different, unless you are using an extremely broad definition of that term that means anything that's not the majority, and I don't think anyone defines it that way. However, even though it's not being used this way, technically, all neurodivergent means is your mind is wired differently from the majority of people in some way. Introverts are definitely mentally wired differently than extroverts. Neither one is wrong, just different. But again as you said, if we started using the term that way, then it would also include things like left-handed people, or people with less common sexual orientations or genders. As of right now, when people use the term neurodivergent, thay are referring to people with some sort of diagnosis such as Autism or ADHD. But I wonder if in the future this definition will eventually broaden? Much like how the definition for Autism itself has broadened? Especially since the term neurodivergent is being used in order to get away from people being labeled as "normal" or "not normal". There is nothing wrong with being neurodivergent or neurotypical. It's just a different wiring. It's just that one is much less understood than the other right now.
BN13
2024-07-25 17:06:52 +0000 UTCI wouldn't call being an introvert being neurodivergent. It's totally normal, like being left-handed. An introvert is not divergent from anything.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-25 16:09:01 +0000 UTCJust one more proof that Troi sucks as a counselor lol
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-25 16:07:15 +0000 UTCThe blight of people who didn't grow up in the 80s.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-25 16:06:08 +0000 UTCI was under the impression that Alex knew (from Red Letter Media) that Tasha died, but not how soon it happened, whereas Josh didn't know at all.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-07-25 11:18:43 +0000 UTCIt's been over 30 years since I first saw this episode, and I never realized until the opening moments of your discussion that the title is a pun ("Hollow Pursuits"/"Holo-Pursuits")!
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-07-25 09:56:38 +0000 UTCEveryone wants to be a Riker or a Data unfortunately I’m a Barclay. Except he’s actually good at his job. I can’t science well. Wesley wasn’t a dick he’s a perfect little boy genius so he just steamrolled broccoli. 😂 There was one episode of TNG I never saw for years! I’m not remembering which one now but somehow I kept missing it for like 20 years and I finally went back and watched it. It felt good to savor one last adventure with the boys. 😆
Philbot
2024-07-24 14:23:05 +0000 UTCThis episode also was forward thinking, anticipating deep fakes and certain kinds of "erotic" recreations of real people using AI and the ethics of it. The touched on it, but it was 1990 and the biggest problem was photoshopping heads onto other people's bodies.
Hunter
2024-07-24 03:06:00 +0000 UTCThe thing I find unrealistic in this is that in the 24th century people don't seem to know about extreme shyness, including medical professionals like Counselor Troi, the one person who should know. Was "Introvertism" cured by the 24th century to the point no one recognize it like people would not recognize smallpox today?
Hunter
2024-07-24 02:53:46 +0000 UTCI get the feeling that Barclay is banned from the holodeck after it all.
mike
2024-07-23 20:39:05 +0000 UTCLove your opening to this lol.
mike
2024-07-23 20:30:14 +0000 UTCWith Geordi i think intent matters he didn't make the Bhrams hologram for any sexual or self-gratification he was working on the issue and the computer helped fill in the gaps. Barkley made the people he personally knows with the intent of having control because he felt out of control with them but he knew why he made them
Who Cares reallly
2024-07-23 20:16:17 +0000 UTCGreat episode, even better reaction. Thanks guys as aways for doing what you do... On a side note... Love how Geordie will never live down the Leah Brhams holodeck feasco... 😅
Dru Blood
2024-07-23 19:30:27 +0000 UTCTheory: There was no facsimile of Picard in the holodeck. That was just Picard having fun getting into costume. That's why Barclay didn't really get into trouble.
Jason the Dave
2024-07-23 18:49:00 +0000 UTCExcellent post. Thanks for sharing that insight
Nathan Olson
2024-07-23 18:46:03 +0000 UTCNot recognizing Howl'in mad Murdoch from A-Team is a cardinal sin.
Paul D Hassett
2024-07-23 18:35:43 +0000 UTCWould have been more hilarious if holo-Josh was giving Alex a massage or something.
Paul D Hassett
2024-07-23 18:33:29 +0000 UTCI think you nailed exactly how I took it
harrypothead42024
2024-07-16 11:59:56 +0000 UTCWith Riker not understanding or liking people like Tam and Barclay, again, I think it just comes down to personality theory. Riker said it best in this episode. His tolerance only goes so far. Unfortunately that's how it is for everyone. We all start with ourselves when it comes to which people we are going to understand and gravitate towards. It's like we all have a bubble that starts with ourselves, and expands out. It will expand out less for some and more for others depending on how accepting we are of differences, but we all have a limit where somebody is going to be outside of this bubble. Riker is an Extrovert, an Artisan, and an S-type. He's very charming, ambitious, personable, sociable, and about as neurotypical as it gets. He's also very healthy, and he's basically the poster child of how to do all of these things well. His sphere of tolerance is also very broad. Basically, as long as you are at least somewhat sociable and are able to mostly fit within the established norms, Riker's not going to have a problem with you. But you get people like Tam and Barclay, where Tam is straight up antisocial and rude and his mind reading ability completely throws off everything we know about how to socialize, and Barclay who straight up can not function in society, and Riker has no idea what to do with these people. They are about as polar opposite from him as you can get, Introvert, Idealists or Rationals, N-types, very off putting and uncomfortable, no ambition, do not understand or want to be around people, antisocial, unhealthy, are about as neurodivergent as you can get, and they are both really struggling with what life has dealt them. Not only is Riker not going to be able to understand those people, but we actually have a tendency to dislike and not trust people who are too opposite from us. This is because part of who we are is based on what we value. Riker values socialbility for instance. People who are opposite from us actually tend to devalue what we value, and value what we devalue. In Riker's case, what he devalues would be social isolation, making others uncomfortable, and not following generally accepted standards. Tam and Barclay basically embody and need everything that Riker can't stand. Therefore he can't understand them, and doesn't like them.
BN13
2024-07-15 14:53:53 +0000 UTCYes, I enjoyed that bit, too. As much as there are advances in the 24th century, human behavior remains a constant. "I need to get rid of this loser, so I'll build up his reputation so some shmuck will be happy to take him off my hands."
Collin Freeman
2024-07-13 17:51:16 +0000 UTC"Yeah, irony can be pretty ironic sometimes." - William Shatner, Airplane II
Collin Freeman
2024-07-13 17:40:54 +0000 UTCThat is a very good point. Addictions are psychological, whether it's a physical substance or fantasy/illusions.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-13 17:38:44 +0000 UTCPersonally, I always wondered more about Barclay's previous captain. While maybe Riker is just overreacting, I found the idea that the other captain not only wanted to get rid of Barclay but also was able to possibly trick Picard into being happy to have him very interesting. But it's kind of a Trek tradition to show us other captains aren't necessarily as great as Picard is.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-13 17:35:09 +0000 UTCYeah, the word I'd use is tacky, maybe immature. Sorta like Wesley. Bullying is a "face to face" thing, unless you believe in the concept of "cyberbullying" which I do not.
Jovet
2024-07-13 16:38:16 +0000 UTCthat alone should be fine,
Eric Wilson
2024-07-13 13:11:04 +0000 UTCI mean, if "bullying" is only something you can do to someone face to face then maybe it's the wrong word.. but my point stands that Geordi's behaviour was crummy
James Bottas
2024-07-13 06:16:49 +0000 UTC@James Bottas Still not bullying Barclay, though. He wasn't there!
Jovet
2024-07-13 05:27:21 +0000 UTCBut, do you enjoy their.... imagination?
Jovet
2024-07-13 05:23:37 +0000 UTC@startrekiborg “WOKE GARBAGE!!” LOL!
Jovet
2024-07-13 05:22:49 +0000 UTCRegarding the AI discussion of it with actual peoples likenesses. I think its only wrong if your intent is to distribute it. People have fantasies, people have crushes, Budding teenage youths to adults fantasize about people they know, celebs etc in their head with their imagination all the time. Its always been thing, if you were to enhance your experience by making your fantasy/dream an interactive simulation for yourself and yourself alone, how is that any different? How is it harming anyone? How is it different from just picturing it in your head other than its way more realistic and immersive as the program? Or someone writes a erotic fanfiction about their crush? We going to start regulating imagination? Now if you were trying to distribute/make public/profit that's where you are crossing the line. I have zero issue with what Barclay did except not including a damn locking sub routine for the holodeck door lol. I would also perhaps would have put an additional security measure for the characters to deactivate or the program saves an ends if someone overrides the lock and comes in without authorization.
Sequiro
2024-07-13 04:33:22 +0000 UTCI can see social anxiety disorder too. He definitely has severe social anxiety. But I don't think this excludes the possibility of autism as well. He could very well have both, but the social anxiety is a lot more obvious. However, both have different degrees of social awkwardness for different reasons. Social anxiety is not wanting to interact with others due to fear/anxiety surrounding how you think you're going to be judged. Asperger's is truly not understanding certain social norms, how you are expected to act, or how to conform to them. And I admit, Data and Laul are probably better representatives of Asperger's/Autism because social norms elude them, and they have to learn how to mimic and mask in order to fit in. But Barclay has some of this going on too, such as not knowing what Geordi expected of him when he asked him to the engineering meeting, not knowing how to present his ideas, and not understanding when someone like Geordi is talking to him as a friend instead of getting onto him for something.
BN13
2024-07-13 02:29:50 +0000 UTCThat's why I like learning about personality theories and different types of neurodivergence. You learn that there are so many different ways that people understand, process and interpret things, and different people have drastically different needs. But you also learn that none of these approaches is "wrong." You might relate to or agree with some more than others, but you learn a lot once you realize that the people who behave the most opposite from you, are actually just as valid as you, and you can learn a lot from their different approach. We all actually fill in each other's understanding gaps if we can manage to actually really listen to each other.
BN13
2024-07-13 02:09:56 +0000 UTCI dunno... using the nickname when speaking to the captain, an attempt to get him transferred elsewhere, and telling the captain he can't tolerate even being in the same room as the man... Riker may have been being a hardassed disciplinarian but Geordi was out of line
James Bottas
2024-07-12 20:07:47 +0000 UTCI'm guessing Derek is alluding to Schultz politics rather than voice acting. I don't agree with his views at all, but sometimes you have to separate the artist from the art and the character from the actor. Unless there's stuff I'm unaware of.
Lincynity
2024-07-12 20:04:39 +0000 UTCI believe there is a lock on the Holodeck, because the two people we see open it go to a panel and type something in, which I'm guessing are their access codes because it's the chief engineer and the executive officer we see doing it. I can't believe that Captain Picard is expected to go in there, and just anybody can walk in while he's doing whatever he does to relax, whether it's fishing, fighting, or f#cking.
harrypothead42024
2024-07-12 20:04:22 +0000 UTCBut Fleet Admiral La Forge in the films is pretty chill.
Jovet
2024-07-12 20:03:15 +0000 UTC20:00 this is an old school television show stylistic thing. We are supposed to take it that everything is fine between the rest of the crew and Lieutenant Barclay from now on
harrypothead42024
2024-07-12 19:59:00 +0000 UTCExcellent comment. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ I've always simply defined "extrovert" as someone who thrives on interacting and working off of/with others. An "introvert" does not. It's like left/right-handed, though. Neither one is wrong.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:58:34 +0000 UTC@paultardspambot . I think it's wonderful you're taking the time to ask these types of questions. 👍
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:56:58 +0000 UTCIt’s been more than 30 years and I just got the pun.
John M.
2024-07-12 19:52:54 +0000 UTCIt seems to me people wishing to enter a holodeck need to interact with the holodeck panel because the door sensor needs to be told to do something. It normally seems to ignore people walking by so that the doors don't open up and disturb the simulated environment all the time. That's not the same as the door being locked. But, it could also be.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:52:05 +0000 UTCEven if you lock the door, which you surely can, people with the right authority can just unlock it anyways.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:49:44 +0000 UTC"Cast aside your masks, and let me SLIP into your mind..." (I want to see Alex doing these lines, in the same sing-songy voice!) LOL!
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:47:54 +0000 UTCMost adults, and even children, on the Enterprise are portrayed as being mature, responsible, well-adapted, productive, and exorcising excellent self-discipline. That is sure not the state of things today.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:47:35 +0000 UTCAlmost every sitcom of the 70s-80s-90s and so on can be legitimately criticized for having perfect something. Perfect parents, perfect children, perfect mom (bumbling father), etc.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:45:25 +0000 UTCRiker and Geordi were not bullying Barclay. The "nickname" wasn't kind, but in a command hierarchy you're expected to follow orders. Discipline is not bullying.
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:42:59 +0000 UTCReading subtitles is not the same as hearing the actors deliver the lines, though. The cadence, tone and inflection, facial expressions... all are part of the performance. Captions might be an okay crutch if you're hard of hearing or in a noisy room, but it's not the same as wholly experiencing the media. It's not that they should be encouraged to sit there in complete silence, but I believe protracted and frivolous discussion should be left for the Discussion video which exists for that purpose. There's a happy medium. It's also true that multiple TNG episodes do benefit from multiple viewings, so when/if they re-watch them, they may pick up even more about it, which is to their benefit (but not ours).
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:41:41 +0000 UTC*pats Jon1701 on the back*
Jovet
2024-07-12 19:35:08 +0000 UTCWesley is an entitled nepo-baby. It absolutely makes sense that he makes fun of people who appear not to be the best on their job.
Sam Langanke
2024-07-12 17:58:00 +0000 UTCYou aren't privy to other people's "general knowledge" and don't know whether it would be a spoiler or not. So if it hasn't already happened in an episode A&J have made a video on, considered it a potential spoiler.
Lincynity
2024-07-12 16:46:55 +0000 UTCVery accurate re introverts. I can be perfectly involved and confident in social/work situations but man does it drain my energy and I can't wait to be alone for a few days.
AzoriusMage
2024-07-12 15:59:56 +0000 UTCThe disrespect from Wesley didn't really make sense, as unlike Wesley Reg passed the Academy Entrance Exam, Graduated from the Academy, and recieved a Promotion to Lt JG. Wesley holds a title that only holds meaning on the Enterprise where Nepotism is allowed, as far as StarFleet is concerned he's a nobody who failed an exam.
James Knight
2024-07-12 15:28:28 +0000 UTCRight, I get that. I just meant that, from general knowledge, you are at least partially spoiled on some things. Like, I wasn't around then, but I don't know if when you first watched Wrath of Khan, you knew that Spock doesn't stay dead. I understand the examples of Yar and Crusher would count as spoilers if a commenter said them, I was just saying that from what you said, there were some things you were aware of from cultural osmosis that were sort of spoilers, like you did know Crusher was going to come back before she did without anyone saying it. I get we're not supposed to say it, I'm just pointing out you guys can't be completely spoiler free, since like, when Tasha died, one of you said something like "I didn't know she dies this soon"... I also know you wanted to see things as they would have been watched, but I think first season TOS greatly benefits from being watched in production order versus show order as it makes more sense. Like the first episode in production order, when Spock first does a mind meld, we get an explanation of what it is, but out of order, it happens without explanation then later happens like its the first time, and there are a lot of things like that in TOS. I think the enhanced version really benefits TOS and it doesn't even look that dated, but I get you wanted to see it as it was. It might be interesting at some point to revisit some TOS episodes that are effect heavy and compare the remastered version to the original. The remaster of TNG is so minor only super obsessive fans would notice, it's stuff like changing readouts on screen to make them sync with continuity when only people who were freeze framing would even notice or adding a different angle of the enterprise or editing out some small mistakes like just barely visible mikes in frame or adding a tiny detail to a matte background. Like, unless you're absolutely obsessive, you could see the new version of TNG and never notice the difference whereas its noticeable in TOS it just looks better.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 15:20:16 +0000 UTCLots of people have misconceptions about what an introvert and an extrovert actually are. Introverts especially are misunderstood and tend to be associated with a bunch of negative or socially isolating traits. Like in this case, social anxiety. Not all introverts are like Barclay. I'd say Barclay definitely has other stuff going on in addition to being an introvert, such as social anxiety most definitely, and I'm convinced he's neurodivergent. He's either an N type, most likely a Rational, or he's on the autism spectrum in addition to being an N type Rational, with social anxiety, and possibly even social anxiety disorder. And even then, Barclay would be able to function perfectly fine with these things if he had the right supports in place and handled them in a healthy way. With Barclay, we're looking at someone who handles these things in unhealthy ways because all he's ever been exposed to is people who expect him to be "normal" like everyone else, and shun him when he's not. So everyone becomes a threat that he doesn't know how to handle except to hide from them so he can actually be himself. And he shames himself for not being able to meet these unrealistic social expectations, so that makes him want to hide more and be extra defensive. He never had healthy strategies modeled to him because no one actually understood what was going on with him. What people don't know and frequently misunderstand is according to Carl Jung, there is only ONE difference between an Introvert and an Extrovert, and that is hiw they recharge their energy. Introverts recharge by being alone, and are drained by socialization. Extroverts are energized by socialization and are drained by being alone. And to what extent someone does this can vary greatly. Some introverts are actually energized by being with a small friend group for example, but are drained by large crowds. And some Extroverts even need a socialization break from time to time. Believe it or not, Geordi, Picard, and Troi are all normal introverts. Introverts can actually be very sociable. Especially if they're at work when they need to be "on." They just need time to themselves to recharge. Captain's Holiday actually showed the difference between Introverts and Extroverts by contrasting Picard and Riker's idea of an ideal vacation. Picard recharges by being alone with his books, but Riker, an Extrovert, energizes by socializing with the local women which he tries to force on Picard so he'll "have a good time" when that actually annoys the hell out if Picard and he just wants to left alone so he can think, because he recharges by NOT socializing. We saw Troi's introversion too in The Price when she had no interest in going to the wormhole social event because she was drained, and she was even starting to find her entire ship's counselor role draining because she wasn't letting herself "turn off." That's more what normal introversion is when there's nothing else going on. Calling Barclay an Introvert is almost as bad as calling him "shy." There's actually a lot more complex stuff going on which is one reason why I love this character. By the way, I can relate because I also have a lot of Barclay's stuff going on in addition to just being an introvert. When you have disorders, simple things become impossible. If you're just an introvert, you can still function normally in society.
BN13
2024-07-12 15:17:32 +0000 UTCThats a cool interpretation, but I think Barclay fits more with severe social anxiety disorder then the autistic spectrum.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 15:02:25 +0000 UTCyeah. I guess what I would say, in TAS we saw there was a more primitive version of this installed on the original Enterprise, but based on the way this is introduced in TNG, it seems this version is an impressive new technology that maybe at this points only exists in this form on the flagship so it's kind of experimental. I tend to be a "fanwanker", the opposite of a "nitpicker", I like thinking of plausible explanations for things as opposed to nitpicking. For some nitpickers, I understand you need to not break the reality of the show, but to satisyf every nitpick, the show would be nothing but expository dialogue that wouldn't actually make for better drama, when you can often think of a "headcanon" reason things make sense that didn't necessarily need to be explained. There's a later specific example of this I'll mention when we get to it. I think generally, the Galaxy class was a bit of a boon-doogle. Keep in mind, it was designed when the Gillworms were taking over starfleet, so a lot of the weird Enterprise stuff can be explained by the Gillworms decommissioning ships while using Utopia Planetia's resources developing an impractically large ship with mission creep. That explains the children thing, why every system on the Enterprise needs to be replaced in the first few seasons and why it seems to break down so much, and heck, the holodeck could have even been intended as a disruptive technology. as realistically, so much of what happens really should have been though out by its designers, like creating Moriarity or no guidelines on hows its used or why its safety protocols so easily fail.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 15:00:08 +0000 UTCThe thing is, this is crew of the federation flagship. We've see how hard is it t get into starfleet, and people who would do anything for this opportunity. Riker thinks Barclay is just a slacker and hes not used to that in Starfleet. Its less about hm being a bully then thinking about the people who deserve the position more in his mind then this guy who he thinks is just phoning it in.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 14:46:07 +0000 UTCThey have subtitles on so even if they are talking they don't miss dialogue, and honestly it would be pretty boring to just watch people watching something in silence.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 14:43:15 +0000 UTCI love the "...spoiler for the Benchwarmers?" comment lol
Billy T. Riker
2024-07-12 14:38:32 +0000 UTCI’m kind of surprised that didn’t come up. They almost certainly knew because they did an IMDB search of him
Strife
2024-07-12 14:00:32 +0000 UTCReally good discussion here you guys! Episodes like these that deal with moral dilemmas are Trek at its best.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-07-12 13:06:21 +0000 UTCRiker is an absolute 100% Extroverted Alpha Male. In personality tests, EXTROVERSION is measured by percentage. Extroverts can sometimes be overly judgemental of introverts... especially one who is 100% INTROVERTED like Reg. I used to work for someone exactly like Riker. He was a black-belt karate expert. Women flirted with him constantly. Over 6 feet tall. A guy had no chance with the ladies with him around. Unfortunately, it's 30 years later and people change alot in 30 years. If only there was a way we could live forever in new bodies.
THE Fans
2024-07-12 09:47:36 +0000 UTCI think it shows very well how easy it is to get caught in a wave of bullying behaviour in a close knit group of peers and Geordi deserves kudos for calling a halt to it, even though it was prompted by Picard and with a nudge from Guinan. To me it's noteworthy Riker didn't seem to take that on board during the episode. But if he had no flaws at all he'd easily be a Gary Stu, I rather like that he has that depth of character.
Lincynity
2024-07-12 08:26:30 +0000 UTCYeah, it's weird to think he got fired during the making of the pilot episode of the A-Team. It would have been a very different series if they hadn't rehired him when they saw the test audience response.
Lincynity
2024-07-12 08:16:33 +0000 UTCLove the TNG backgrounds and effects. It's really fun. Thanks for that.
J-Ro
2024-07-12 06:45:10 +0000 UTCYeah, I’ve always loved that moment. It’s like over the top in the best possible way. It’s also how I’d like to respond to people who aren’t cooperating. 😂
FullPowerDamnYou
2024-07-12 05:45:58 +0000 UTCI love that announcer and his over the top style. The best is when he does a promo for two different shows, one drama and one comedy, and he changes his entire way of speaking based on the genre he is selling.
Ken R
2024-07-12 04:30:31 +0000 UTCthere are endless possibilities. if it existed for real most would never leave the holodeck leading to massive social issues
Narnman
2024-07-12 04:08:37 +0000 UTCI think having Commodore Laforge throwing his rank around and bungling things up became the most worn out trope-- and the reason season 8 was so bad that one dares talk about it anymore
Moonlander
2024-07-12 04:04:51 +0000 UTCThat sounds logical. Or…they’re just very fickle gen z’ers. ;)
startrekiborg
2024-07-12 04:02:33 +0000 UTCBoth of the examples you gave (Tasha not being in the whole series, Beverly returning) would’ve been spoilers if you said them before they happened. It’s best to act as if it’s the date that whatever episode we are on aired. If you didn’t know the info at that date, you probably shouldn’t say it. Obviously when this episode aired, you wouldn’t know anything about DS9, because it didn’t exist. I would recommend joining the Patron Discord where you can talk with spoilers freely because we are not in there and the Patrons can help you out with these kind of questions - http://discord.gg/xG4tfAjNUV
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-12 03:40:12 +0000 UTCI would have an issue with someone using my likeness in the manner that Barclay does. While Barclay is harmless, what he's doing is no different than some stalker building a fantasy in his head about a perceived relationship with me. Now Barclay is clearly able to see the difference (marginally), someone else might not. We've seen the result in too many homicides of women, when the fantasy a man builds in his head up about a woman, doesn't fit the reality.
Linda Thackeray
2024-07-12 03:33:59 +0000 UTCI would avoid. The general policy is - if it's something that happens in a future episode, don't say it. Talking about future production (excluding cast) is permissible, like "Ronald D. Moore becomes writer on DS9, Ira Steven Behr becomes showrunner" etc.
JGoss
2024-07-12 03:21:41 +0000 UTCSo I have a general question about spoiler policy. Is it ok to mention in a broad sense if a topic is explored or not in later episodes show without giving specifics? For example, when they say "Maybe thats a DS9" episode would it be spoilers to say "DS9 doesn't do holodeck stuff" or "DS9 actually does explore some of the things you're talking about" I asked because I got temporarily booted for saying some general things about this season's finale that I thought wasn't at all specific but would have been useful for context going in (what was going on at the actual time of the episode). Looking back, while I didn't say anything specifically spoiler, I can see how something I've said could have.... given a hint about something very general about the episode, but it feels like just by generalized knowledge about the course of an pld franchise, there are some things that are "spoiled" that wouldn't have been at the time. "Safe" examples are how they knew Tasha Yar didn't stay with the show for its whole run, which viewers at the time couldn't have known, or that Dr. Crusher was returning at some point and wasn't permanently written out of the show in season 2. It's tricky for me because I'm a fan of retro-active continuity which makes it tricky as there are observations and comments I want to make in terms of how certain episodes establish certain things, but even saying that is in a strict sense a spoiler because they only find out things are established by seeing future episodes. Is there a spoiler/comment policy somewhere?
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 03:17:02 +0000 UTC32:00 They could have/likely programmed the table to persist despite the destruction and end of the rest of the simulation.
Jovet
2024-07-12 02:29:07 +0000 UTCI agree personally, but I think distributing it in any way should count as harassment.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-12 02:22:41 +0000 UTC24:30 LOL!! Oh boy. None of us Patrons would ever dare to fantasize like that...
Jovet
2024-07-12 02:21:34 +0000 UTCYeah that’s basically what I said about the teaser haha
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-12 02:13:03 +0000 UTCI feel like if you lock the holodeck and someone overrides it, your program should instantly end. I understand it’s a TV show and it doesn’t matter though
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-12 02:11:10 +0000 UTCI think this episode is perfect. I wouldn't change a thing. From the musical swell when Barclay kisses "Goddess of Empathy" Troi on the holodeck, to Picard's mortified stunned silence, to Barclay's nervous stammering, to "Little Jack Horner" Wesley.
Jovet
2024-07-12 02:10:45 +0000 UTCWell ya gotta love Dwight Schultz as Murdock in The A-Team.
Dale Williams
2024-07-12 02:07:08 +0000 UTC@Derek Orr Exactly. If Barclay can't be a good officer, he should resign and go find his life's true calling.
Jovet
2024-07-12 02:05:28 +0000 UTCI mean it's not so bad if you've just made a program recreating a Halo or Mass Effect game........actually in the latter case there are some moments I'd want the door locked😉
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-12 02:03:08 +0000 UTCActually really well done! 😯
Jovet
2024-07-12 01:59:27 +0000 UTCMy guess is, because they're such character-focused people, it mostly comes down to how they like the guest actors and direction. The writing too, but much less about the broad story and much more about execution, I think they've said that specifically too. Even a rather average plot, if executed very well, can be great.
Paul
2024-07-12 01:58:17 +0000 UTCNice user name. TWOK reference I assume
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-12 01:52:25 +0000 UTCI mean, putting aside 2x3, while the holodeck might trap someone inside or could potentially be used to really fuck with someone's mind. It can't really threaten the federation per se. The Talosians could potentially commandeer a starfleet vessel, beam aboard, and travel around the federation making starfleet ships fight each other and bombard their own planets. I just don't see the same threat from the holodeck.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-12 01:51:00 +0000 UTCWell, based on Elementary Dear Data, it seems there were holodecks before, just more rudimentary. Certainly the Galaxy class ships would all have them being the newest and most advanced.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-12 01:43:15 +0000 UTCcan you elaborate Derek?
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-12 01:40:52 +0000 UTCI think Barclay being able to solve the plot problem actually speaks a lot to the uniqueness of his character. I'm coming from a psychology perspective though. On the one hand, Barclay is an Introverted Rational according to Keirsey's Temperments/MBTI. On yhe other hand, I'm convinced that Barclays is on the autism spectrum. Specifically he fits the profile of what used to be called Asperger's. Anyway, there is a reason why these people are called Neurodivergent. They literally think differently than most people. Their strength is they see things that most people never think about or notice, and they are particularly good with pattern recognition. I'd say that even Barclay's crew recreations are a form of pattern recognition by how he interprets certain traits of theirs in a fantastical setting. But yeah, the perfect example of this is how Barclay is actually the one most uniquely suited to solve the seemingly disconnected problem. He saw the pattern that tied everything together when no one else could. He was even frequently one step ahead of the engineering team because he kept coming to the same conclusions as them before they did because he was arriving at those conclusions through different ways. His problem solving did a good job of representing some of what neurodivergent people have to offer that no one else can.
BN13
2024-07-12 01:40:42 +0000 UTCAs far as the locks thing, there are locks, it's pretty clear when Geordi first interrupts Barclay he doesn't just walks in, he inputs something into the panel to open it. So yes its not just like anyone can walk in but command officers can override that and open it.
paultardspambot .
2024-07-12 01:32:34 +0000 UTCRe: locking the holodeck, while you were watching and kept yelling "lock the door!" it made me think of a line in the movie The Final Countdown. It's aboard a US Navy aircraft carrier, and one of the officers has the line: "one thing we value on board ship is privacy, probably because we have so damned little of it!" You reminded me of that line.
tyranusfan
2024-07-12 01:26:04 +0000 UTCI think Riker in this episode has to be the hard-nosed XO. It's his job to make sure the crew is doing their jobs (and their efficiency ratings are appropriately high for the Enterprise). Barclay is hurting his averages! That reflects on Riker, and I guess he didn't handle that very well.
tyranusfan
2024-07-12 01:17:53 +0000 UTCI would say, concerning Riker's attitude, he's the XO. At the end of the day, he's responsible for the performance of the crew. And Reg just being so negligent in his duties potentially makes him look bad. and puts him in an awkward place.
THE LORE!!!
2024-07-12 01:16:11 +0000 UTCHow come? (KIDDING!)
James Bottas
2024-07-12 01:01:42 +0000 UTCI think we need to ask a lot more ladies of their opinion about this
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-12 00:48:07 +0000 UTCLol, I always like the little skits.
Jeremy S
2024-07-12 00:40:44 +0000 UTCno way would i use a holodeck knowing someone could just walk right in. i guess as the show likes to mention every so often , 'we do things differently in the future', leading to 'privacy doesnt exist we share everything together"
Narnman
2024-07-12 00:06:41 +0000 UTCAlso, there has to be a way with AI to use the announcer's voice for a promo for Next Time on Taaarget Audience
Ken R
2024-07-11 23:57:54 +0000 UTCSPOILER by season 8 he is a commodore admiral and his job is to interfere and give wrong advice every other episode.
Ken R
2024-07-11 23:53:38 +0000 UTCI was really worried about you not liking this one, because Barklay is really awkward, and you either connect with him or he's going to annoy the hell out of you. I'm very happy you like him, because he's kind of iconic for being this one guy on the enterprise that isn't "perfect" like everybody else. TNG was a bit criticized at times for having a TOO PERFECT crew, and from what I know, this fan submission (apparently the author is an English professor somewhere?) tried to shake that up a little. Turns out she was successful :)
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-11 23:42:52 +0000 UTCWell he was a red-shirt first, so he was on the command track. And in the military you often get the position before you get the rank assiciated with a position of that level. So becoming chief engineer and later being promoted to a rank that reflects that position is very realistic in military terms.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-07-11 23:40:44 +0000 UTCDoes no one think the reason the promo highlighted whatever danger/action this episode had is because the hook of a shy guy on a holodeck isn't really interesting enough to even potentially reel in someone who has never seen the show before? Who having never seen Riker or Troi before would be enticed by a fake version of them? This episode was ok, just seems like another 70s family drama story in space, it isn't a shy kid at school, but it is a shy kid in engineering.
Ken R
2024-07-11 22:42:42 +0000 UTCI also wanted to say, this episode really elevates Geordi for me. He doesn't just treat Reg better because he was ordered to.. He seems to really take to heart that he wasn't treating him well and really sincerely puts in effort to reach out and make up for it. an aspect of the episode I find really touching
James Bottas
2024-07-11 22:32:12 +0000 UTCYou guys were CAPTIVATED by this one. The quieter you guys are when viewing, the better the episode.
Darin Wagner
2024-07-11 22:28:39 +0000 UTCtop tier reaction and discussion guys. It's a tough topic, representing real people with Ai for "private" reasons. Personally, I don't think something is being done to me if something is done to a picture or model of me. Doesn't matter how highly detailed that picture or model is, it's not me. Might it make me embarrassed or uncomfortable to find out? Sure, but that's why there should be a damn lock and a Privacy Required warning on the holodeck door lol. So long as it isn't being used to harass me. You said yourself during the reaction Josh, the holodeck is basically just being in your head. Anyhoo.. great videos today
James Bottas
2024-07-11 22:24:19 +0000 UTCYeah, Geordi's doing pretty well. He was a junior-grade Lieutenant in season 1, a full Lieutenant in season 2, and now a Lieutenant Commander in season 3. My headcanon is that commanding the Enterprise in The Arsenal of Freedom in season 1 put him on the fast-track to a command-level rank.
Jeff Cornell
2024-07-11 21:36:41 +0000 UTCDid you notice that Geordi has been promoted from Lieutenant to Lieutenant Commander? I noticed because Picard addressed him as “Commander.” I thought he was talking to Commander Riker, but then Geordi replied. One might read into it an undercurrent of “we promoted you to senior management; you need to start senior managing better.”
Aramis Calcutt
2024-07-11 21:28:29 +0000 UTCDon't be so hard, Josh. You have to consider that there was no Internet in 1990. Fanfiction was just written words that didin't spread much around.
Sam Langanke
2024-07-11 21:21:58 +0000 UTCOdd that a crew hired and trained to make first contact with alien species have no idea how to do so with one of their own.
Alan Thompson
2024-07-11 21:18:51 +0000 UTCI mean its not unreasonable for new tech to spread out other ships and bases over just a few years …ultimately its an empty cargo hold retrofitted with holo emitters and maybe an upgrade to the ships computer power and software 🤷♂️
Derek Orr
2024-07-11 21:15:42 +0000 UTCGreat discussion as usual guys. I understand wanting things to be connected, but I think that if Barclay had learned something from his holodeck scenarios to help save the ship, that would have undercut the entire episode. Barclay's arc was about being present in the real world and not hiding in a holodeck fantasy. If the holodeck had provided a solution somehow, it would have subtly validated the behaviour that he was trying to move away from. While the episode presents Barclay as a sympathetic character, it doesn't necessarily condone all of his actions.
Ryan Caulfield
2024-07-11 21:14:30 +0000 UTCHonestly Rikers treatment of Barclay is completely justified and normal for a military environment
Derek Orr
2024-07-11 21:13:02 +0000 UTCI must confess with hindsight Barclay is my favourite Star Trek character. I was a fan of the A-Team, Murdock in particular, as a teenager but Barclay grew on me with rewatching. I really enjoyed your views on the character and I agree except I do think there are at least implied consequences. Troi saying "We have a lot to talk about Mr Barclay." and him name dropping her before deleting his programs (except Program 9) puts him squarely in her wheelhouse, most likely complying with some kind of therapy. Maybe it's my headcanon but this is probably a disciplinary condition. All things considered, although he overstepped boundaries it's not like the Enterprise got hijacked by aliens while he was distracted on the holodeck ~cough~Riker~cough~
Lincynity
2024-07-11 20:56:56 +0000 UTCLittle Riker! Lmfao!
Chris S.
2024-07-11 20:45:29 +0000 UTCThank you for saying "tough"
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-11 20:26:10 +0000 UTCI think that's right, the XO is the direct link between the senior staff and the captain and when the senior staff is unable to get their junior officers/crew in line, he has to step in and be the Big Bad
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-11 20:25:49 +0000 UTCLet’s be honest, wouldn’t it be tough for most of us to end up with a therapist who you find very attractive?
Joe Concepts
2024-07-11 20:24:22 +0000 UTCI think Riker hates the idea of someone not doing their job well, but especially in the case of just plain being unreliable. And also, the shows tends to suggest that the first officer is the guy who would be the one to discipline the crew.
Joe Concepts
2024-07-11 20:21:22 +0000 UTCI enjoy y’all’s sense of humor and creativity.
FullPowerDamnYou
2024-07-11 20:19:56 +0000 UTCUnfortunately what the actor is doing these days in real is an even bigger shock
Derek Orr
2024-07-11 20:17:48 +0000 UTCThe riker stuff is interesting. He is being a realistic XO based on real world naval officers XOs being responsible for discipline of the crew on behalf of the Captain. On the other hand yes there is an element of Riker representing the normal folks or popular/jocks as you called them. Barclay was written to represent the stereotypical awkward star trek fan with bad social skills etc….and in the 1980s context of the show…when nerds where absolutely not even remotely cool or accepted….riker was being pretty normal to be honest…he represented what most people could not say out-loud or as forcefully
Derek Orr
2024-07-11 20:16:53 +0000 UTCYou're not alone buddy
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-11 20:15:02 +0000 UTCOne thing I ALMOST mentioned was it's really funny about how the Talosian power of illusion was so dangerous it destroyed their whole planet and as a result Starfleet ruled it off limits with the DEATH penalty, and yet 80 years later, here, have a holodeck!
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-11 20:14:51 +0000 UTCGreat job guys
Phil Ken Sebben
2024-07-11 20:10:56 +0000 UTCThis!
Jeffrey
2024-07-11 20:07:16 +0000 UTCTo your point about Barkley not learning something from the holodeck that helps solve the mystery… I don’t think that would fit the moral of the story. The weight of the moral was on Geordi—by listening to Picard and allowing Barkley to be a part of the team, Barkley saved the whole ship. If Picard had agreed with Riker and not told Geordi to be his “best friend,”the ship would have been destroyed.
Benjamin Azure
2024-07-11 20:06:14 +0000 UTC34 years and I’ve just realised Hollow Pursuits is a play on the the word “Holo-pursuits” 😂😂
Jon1701
2024-07-11 19:58:43 +0000 UTCOops sorry 🙏
Christopher Dorn
2024-07-11 19:57:08 +0000 UTCI was wrong, they got it and they liked it. These guys are becoming unpredictable. Lol
startrekiborg
2024-07-11 19:54:23 +0000 UTCCareful, spoilers. I could say more directly on your comment, but…spoilers.
startrekiborg
2024-07-11 19:52:58 +0000 UTCAlso I just love Barclay as a character. His speech to Geordi about social anxiety is just how I've felt when I'm by myself with a lot of new people, particularly if they are very extroverted and confident. It's good to know that people like me could exist in the optimistic ST future.
Kristina Weber
2024-07-11 19:49:22 +0000 UTCThere is a Star Trek series called Lower Decks that focuses on lower deck ensigns. It's animated tho.
Christopher Dorn
2024-07-11 19:48:09 +0000 UTCI'm glad you called out Riker's behavior. I think it actually does fit because he's so senior in the crew and has such a confident personality. He probably doesn't show his softer side to very junior staff in other departments and can't empathize as easily with an anxious introvert like Barclay. To Barclay he would seem overbearing and bullying where our main cast is not threatened by Riker and would find him more playful and warm. We all have different sides to our personality that come out in different settings.
Kristina Weber
2024-07-11 19:47:40 +0000 UTCBest intro ever
Captain Proton
2024-07-11 19:46:12 +0000 UTCThat was the best hook YOU guys have done, and this is one of the most fun TNG episodes yet. 🥦 is an absolute fan favourite and, as episodes continue, a wonderful commentary of seeing the ability in people beyond their disabilities. And yes, Dwight Schultz is an incredibly skilled actor from A-Team!
Ross Townsend
2024-07-11 19:42:26 +0000 UTCLong Live Barclay! 🥦🥦🥦
The Cincinnatian
2024-07-11 19:34:16 +0000 UTCEarly on in season 1, there is some dialog that let's us know that the Holodeck is rather unique to the Enterprise (pilot?). As time goes on, there seems to be some "power-creep", and it sounds like holodecks are more prevalent, at least for other starships and starbases.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-11 19:28:46 +0000 UTCHolo-Troi has 3 minutes of screen time and is a more fleshed out and interesting character than Vash in Captain’s Holiday💀
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-11 19:20:43 +0000 UTCI love this episode! Reginald Barclay is a gem you didn't know you needed.
C_Drew
2024-07-11 19:19:28 +0000 UTCNo, we saw it
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-07-11 19:12:46 +0000 UTCThere was a moment when Geordie was talking to Barkley and mentioned hollow addiction and how he even fell in love on the hollowdeck. You might have missed it?
D Jammers
2024-07-11 19:10:19 +0000 UTCYou got your fake name in my fan submission! You got my fan submission in your fake name! Guys, why can't it be both??
JD Nevesytrof
2024-07-11 19:09:55 +0000 UTCBest intro ever! After Captain’s Holiday I was afraid of what you’d think of this episode, but I’m glad you enjoyed it so much. Reg is one of my favorite guest characters they’ve had. The actor is phenomenal, and having seen him in A-Team for so long, it was a shock to see him play such a different character in TNG but he nails it.
Brian Moore
2024-07-11 19:09:01 +0000 UTCExcellent intro, guys. S-tier.
Collin Freeman
2024-07-11 18:58:09 +0000 UTCThese intro skits are gold
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-07-11 18:53:22 +0000 UTC
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