PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 16
Added 2024-06-12 14:07:02 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and they may be featured in our video!
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Comments
The last weak episode of season 3, IMHO. Coming up I really enjoy every episode even if it's not universally rated as "peak Trek", though some are.
Cirk Bejnar
2024-06-16 15:31:03 +0000 UTC... HE'S BITING THAT FEMALE!!! *chef's kiss*
A G
2024-06-14 22:53:46 +0000 UTCWe deal in quatloos here.
John M.
2024-06-14 10:38:02 +0000 UTC"Why is the sky black?" and "Thank you for my life." ............Those remains two of THE MOST memorable lines I've heard in all of Star Trek - for reasons both of you (TA) will experience by the time the episode concludes. And I've seen the new Star Treks', too.
Rhett Coates
2024-06-14 01:12:26 +0000 UTCIt seems a little bit of lazy writing for the admiral to just regard Lal as Federation property again. Has anyone mentioned that the ceiling of the transporter pad is the floor of the TOS pad? I haven't read every comment.
Miah1138
2024-06-13 18:49:35 +0000 UTCWhat an episode! Several Predictions here. 1. You will cry! 2. You will pop when you see who directs the episode - the start of a legacy. So many great scenes, kissing Riker, Data asking his intentions! As much as the Admiral is an asshole, hearing him talk about Data trying to save Lal is heartbreaking. However you may feel about what is a sensitive subject - there's also a bit of eerie foreshadowing of the present day in that scene with a child choosing their own gender
Carl Davies
2024-06-13 17:11:18 +0000 UTCOh no, we're not here to debate Bacon-Erdos numbers Dave!
Trouty McTroutTrout
2024-06-13 11:43:14 +0000 UTCHe rized her up with a sentence. My man doesn't know his own strength
Manny Fleurmond
2024-06-13 02:34:19 +0000 UTCI wasn't crazy about this episode when it came it out, and I expect you both may feel the same. I initially thought the Lal character was a bit too goofy, but I appreciate the performance more now than I did then. It hits much differently after rewatching it many years later.
Gary A. Neilson
2024-06-13 00:26:52 +0000 UTCWhile I knew how this episode ended, having seen it once before, what surprised me was the emotional sledge hammer that hit me five minutes into the episode as a result of that knowledge. The scene that was the biggest gut punch to me was when Lal's inability to process fear in Troi's quarters. Lal's line to Data that she had enough love for both of them brought me to tears. What a great episode.
Nick Sauer
2024-06-13 00:03:47 +0000 UTC(Star-Trek-Eye-Borg) I think you’ll love this episode. It has good character growth for Data, plays with all your emotions (comedy, drama, heartbreak), and the scene with Lal kissing Riker is the best. I bet you guys explode with laughter.
startrekiborg
2024-06-12 22:37:20 +0000 UTCPrediction: Alex will cry. Josh will be the closest he’s been so far. Both of you will find mad respect for Frakes as a director! Seriously, what an amazing directorial debut for him. This episode makes grown men cry (me too, Alex. Me too.)
Brian Moore
2024-06-12 22:03:23 +0000 UTCWelcome to banger town! All buses lead to banger town and all shops are now selling bangers at half price. Ok you get the point, but seriously I predict at least Alex will need a tissue for the issues raised in this episode! A nice piece of lore and character development for Data in it's own right. Hopefully the stodgy Admiral doesn't ruin the mood (he does somewhat redeem himself late in the episode). Curious how you compare the emotional element here to The Bonding from earlier in season 3? I'll ask again when the reaction comes out so you have a shorter post to reply to. Hope you enjoy!
Trouty McTroutTrout
2024-06-12 19:39:25 +0000 UTCI agree with Admiral Haftel's position, having the only two Soong type androids on a long range exploration vessel would be risky. Also, in a scene the didn't make it from concept to the script, Haftel arrived in direct command of his unamed Excelsior Class ship, which would have served as an ititial clue to him being a hands on Admiral (like Admiral Kirk before him).
James Knight
2024-06-12 19:34:06 +0000 UTCI love how this is straight after Yesterdays Enterprise. It’s another incredible episode but yet so different. It really highlights the versatility of the show. That ending is one Treks saddest.
Darren Seal
2024-06-12 19:27:27 +0000 UTCRiker's rizz sneaks up on him in this episode.
Mike Rogers
2024-06-12 19:22:04 +0000 UTCThis is Rene Echevarria's first script. He's another prolific Star Trek writer moving forward for TNG and DS9, so keep an eye out for his stories if you like this one.
Justin B
2024-06-12 19:20:06 +0000 UTCI'm with you. I appreciate this episode for what it is, and darn it if I don't tear up every time I hear, "I will feel it for both of us. Thank you for my life." But overall, this isn't a favorite. But props to the actor playing the Admiral at the end. His last speech was fantastically acted, and it always breaks my heart.
Justin B
2024-06-12 19:05:53 +0000 UTCThis was the first episode of Star Trek I ever saw. Definitely one of the saddest in the show. I like how by the end even the asshole starfleet admiral comes around.
Spencer Loften
2024-06-12 19:02:12 +0000 UTCI 100% agree. That's my only big problem with this episode. It's a little too easy to include the "Starfleet Admiral that sucks" as an antagonist, but otherwise, it's a good episode for Josh and Alex. Not one of my favorites.
Justin B
2024-06-12 19:00:16 +0000 UTClol, true
Faitestealer
2024-06-12 18:56:25 +0000 UTCBefore I had kids, this episode always broke me up, I really felt for Data. After I had kids, I just want to shoot Lal out of a torpedo tube into the sun. Data, you idiot, how expensive is a positronic daughter gonna be.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-06-12 18:40:17 +0000 UTCOn purely a logical analysis and plot dynamics I mostly agree. But the episode evokes enough emotions for me that it works. But to each our own.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-12 18:19:12 +0000 UTCI never thought about that.
Monty Crawford
2024-06-12 18:16:52 +0000 UTCHere you go a Character show ... Papa Data ... hashbrown AndroidGenderRevealParty... some highs and lows in this one.
Lt Dan I scream
2024-06-12 18:15:32 +0000 UTCProbably not...but maybe the first time he was 100% sure the being asking it could rip all his limbs off his body in less than .07 seconds.
Greg Quinn
2024-06-12 18:09:06 +0000 UTCTear jerker...
Greg Quinn
2024-06-12 18:07:03 +0000 UTCA bit odd that after measure of a man and the legal conclusion Star Fleet would still be trying to do this. But hey that's Star Fleet...
Greg Quinn
2024-06-12 18:06:05 +0000 UTCI never once thought to compare this episode to Measure of a Man. I watched the show in its original run and enjoyed each episode as it's own story, except for ones that had obvious connections to past ones like the Borg episodes. This thing about comparing episodes to each other seems to diminish one's enjoyment of the show. Kinda like how these guys thought Deja Q was just a "fine" episode simply cuz it didnt stack up to Q Who. I dont understand this human need to compare episodes. Does not compute......
HS
2024-06-12 17:25:44 +0000 UTCYeah that updated Andorian design needed to be put back in the oven for a Looong time after this
Justin DiBari
2024-06-12 17:20:53 +0000 UTCNotice how In Measure of a Man, Picard initially concedes that Data must turn himself over to Star Fleet to be studied. However, in this episode, he tells Data to ignore the admiral’s order to surrender Lal. To me, it’s an another great example this season of the writers making Picard a character who truly cares about his crew.
Lwaxana’s Poolboy
2024-06-12 17:20:20 +0000 UTCNow, keep going 'til you get to Kevin Bacon.
David Brown
2024-06-12 17:19:50 +0000 UTCSo Data remembers the experience of kissing Riker.
David Brown
2024-06-12 17:16:04 +0000 UTCSolid character work episode. You'll find the directorial credit beyond belief, and you guys'll be excited to see an Andorian again, but probably wonder why they're green. Good performances alm around. And an Admiral coming to realize he was a heartless dipstick for once.
Nolan
2024-06-12 17:06:15 +0000 UTCJonathan Frakes directing debut with this episode - lots of humour, heart and humility. Expect more episodes to be directed by cast members from now on, to (mostly) good results..!
The Ninth Doctor
2024-06-12 16:58:50 +0000 UTCI like Picard’s arc in this episode. He starts out viewing Lal as an unauthorized science experiment and comes around to seeing her as Data’s child
Matthew McKinnon-Gray
2024-06-12 16:36:00 +0000 UTCI would be surprised if you guys didn't love this one.
TomEmilioDavies
2024-06-12 16:23:11 +0000 UTCThere are 3 episodes of Star Trek that I have seen make people cry. This is one of them. TNG is on a roll, and the best of Season 3 is still yet to come.
ijp8834
2024-06-12 16:16:06 +0000 UTCOrder a man to hand the Target Audience over to the state? Not while I'm their Patreon! :D
MadScientist
2024-06-12 16:14:12 +0000 UTCThis episode made me cry. I have not spoken to my mother for 20 years. She died last year, I never told her thank you for my life.
Just another Red Shirt
2024-06-12 16:05:07 +0000 UTCShe’s and android, and her name is spelled “Lal”. 😂
Column Meanie
2024-06-12 16:03:01 +0000 UTC....yeah, but she's a robot... LOL!
StonyD
2024-06-12 15:57:19 +0000 UTCEh...I mean, I look at it as a follow-up to Measure while also continuing Data's journey into humanity. But, to each their own.
StonyD
2024-06-12 15:56:42 +0000 UTC"What are your intentions with my,daughter" I'm sure this isn't the first time Riker has heard this lol
Faitestealer
2024-06-12 15:42:04 +0000 UTCJonathan Frakes directorial debut! And he gets a great one (hence his scarce appearance in the episode) This is heartfelt episode that brings me to tears. no matter how many times I see it. Hope you guys feel the same way about it. Amazing job by Jonathan Frakes!
Chris S.
2024-06-12 15:41:31 +0000 UTCA child choosing their sex and appearance. Another example of Trek being ahead of its time!
Column Meanie
2024-06-12 15:40:30 +0000 UTCThis is another popular episode that doesn't make it for me. It just feels like a rehashing of Measure of a Man, where for the 2nd time Starfleet forgets that androids were granted autonomy. This time around, the android of interest is not Data, but a new character we just met this week, while the episode itself provides none of the courtroom intrigue that elevated Measure of a Man to legend status.
Evan Guthrie
2024-06-12 15:32:56 +0000 UTCAlex is more openly emotional, so £50 on Alex.
Numinous2019
2024-06-12 15:31:06 +0000 UTCI agree with you. That's the problem with the Enterprise crew dynamics in TOS & TNG. Any meaningful conflict has to be introduced by outside people. So almost everyone in Starfleet is unsympathetic or a jackass. I do like the actors (mostly) who play these berks though.
Numinous2019
2024-06-12 15:28:43 +0000 UTCData doesn’t seem to have much luck with family, lost his brother, his lover and now his daughter… glad he doesn’t have emotions
Warpiggaming
2024-06-12 15:20:13 +0000 UTCThis episode will break you.
Vagon Khan
2024-06-12 15:19:49 +0000 UTCSame boat, never been able to finish that voyager episode since my kid was born
Warpiggaming
2024-06-12 15:17:59 +0000 UTCLal is played by Hallie Todd, and she really sells this episode..funny, touching, with just a hint of a mechanical movement. Her mother was Ann Morgan Guilbert who played Millie on the old Dick Van Dyke show, and in the 90’s played Grandma Yeta on The Nanny.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-06-12 15:11:16 +0000 UTCAnother great episode, data gets a chance to shine again with a shory about kids and his legacy, and how the admiral says at the end about how fast his hands moved, there aren’t many episodes like this that use family/kids as a big gut punch but there is a few, banger no 2 let’s keep going
Warpiggaming
2024-06-12 15:05:33 +0000 UTCAdmiral Haftel was played by Nicolas Coster, who had a recurring part as Blair’s father on “The Facts of Life”. Blair’s mother was played by a recurring Marj Dusay, who played Kara the brain thief on Spock’s Brain (“Brain and brain, what is BRAIN!?!”)
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-06-12 15:03:23 +0000 UTCI'm um... not a fan of this episode. It's one of the many tropes I really can't stand in an episodic series. YMMV, (probably will) but I am not a fan. Coming off episode 15, this was bound to be a letdown.
John
2024-06-12 14:59:13 +0000 UTCWhy was Lal limited to choosing between real species in the Star Trek universe for her appearance? If I were Lal I would have ended up looking like Legolas with angel wings.
Phillip Grischa
2024-06-12 14:37:19 +0000 UTCThere are multiple heart-wrenching scenes in this episode, but the line about Data's hands moving faster than you can see is what gets me. Fantastic choice from the show creators to tell it, not show it this time.
snthd
2024-06-12 14:36:48 +0000 UTC"..not while I'm his captain" Picard with the moral backbone made of adamantium.
valen
2024-06-12 14:36:37 +0000 UTCMany admirals in Trek are awful, but Haftel has my vote for the worst. He uses being a father as a shield, but acts nothing like one. He doesn't even get a comeuppance at the end. Just laments it wasn't meant to be, and doesn't acknowledge his actions contributed to her death.
JGoss
2024-06-12 14:32:58 +0000 UTCDon't look up Jonathan Frakes' info on IMDB or anywhere on the internet and social media after this episode! Doing so would be the result of violating the Prime Directive! That will be all, guys.
Anthony Goodwin
2024-06-12 14:24:55 +0000 UTCMany will remember this as Jonathan Frakes’ directorial debut but also of note is this is the first episode written by Rene Echevarria, who, much like Ron Moore, will go on to pen a multitude of classic TNG and DS9 episodes, and is probably best known for drafting many of the more emotionally resonant episodes of the show, this being no exception.
Carl Williams
2024-06-12 14:24:48 +0000 UTCI’m a dad of a young daughter. I find this one hits much harder now than previous viewings.
Matthew Riley
2024-06-12 14:21:47 +0000 UTCAnother obnoxious Starfleet officer. At least he redeems himself... this one always draws a tear or 20 from me.
David Wayne Fox
2024-06-12 14:19:39 +0000 UTCMy favorite part of this episode is the change of heart you see in the Admiral. At first, he views Data and Lal as nothing but hardware (like Maddox in Measure of a Man), but by the end, he’s moved by Data’s attempts to save his daughter.
tyranusfan
2024-06-12 14:18:09 +0000 UTCI'm not crying. It's all the damn space pollen.
Jeffrey P
2024-06-12 14:17:06 +0000 UTCGreat character episode for Data! Very emotional. Really enjoy how the Admiral initially appears to be another jackass but has his heart softened by the end. Spectacular performances all-around. Picard standing up for parental rights against the state was first class. Lal being integrated into Data at the end was so very touching. Another banger!
Lovok
2024-06-12 14:16:55 +0000 UTCGreeting from Youngstown, Ohio. I love when Data takes Picard to school on his reproductive rights! Rarely do we see Picard get owned on philosophical or moral issues!
Mark Magana
2024-06-12 14:15:22 +0000 UTCSuch a touching, sad, and beautiful episode. Who has tears?
Andrew Bassey
2024-06-12 14:13:07 +0000 UTCI predict some sort of reaction at the appearance of the Andorian body option, followed by tears at the end. This episode even made its own Badmiral tear up.
Steve Boshear
2024-06-12 14:11:32 +0000 UTCAnytime we get used to the idea of Starfleet being the “good guys”, an evil admiral shows up to remind us that it’s just like any other corrupt organization. What kind of monster decides to take away someone’s daughter away for study?
Bryce Ronee
2024-06-12 14:11:01 +0000 UTCThe TNG episode that makes me cry every time. Only strike against it for me is that it goes over some of the same terrain as Measure of a Man. But from ‘his hands were moving so fast’ to the end I’m a blubbering mess.
John M.
2024-06-12 14:10:41 +0000 UTCThis episode made me cry. I liked the callbacks to Measure of a Man but this one seemed even more poignant to me. Fully invested.
Paul Rymer
2024-06-12 14:09:43 +0000 UTCThis one is such a charming and poignant story. Data having a child is a natural progression of his character. The performance of Lal by Hallie Todd is worthy of an Emmy. As a kid I found her performance humorous. As an adult with an autistic little sister the performance hits home. You instantly feel sympathy for this child-in-adult form discovering the world around her. In many ways TNG did Forrest Gump four years before that film was released. The final scene with Lal is gut-wrenching. An excellent outing for first time director Frakes. Also, welcome Rene Echevarria to the writing team. You will see his name attached to many of the greatest episodes of TNG and DS9.
Column Meanie
2024-06-12 14:08:37 +0000 UTCWho's going to cry first, Josh or Alex?
THE LORE!!!
2024-06-12 14:07:54 +0000 UTC
