PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 4
Added 2024-04-22 02:14:07 +0000 UTCTARGET DEMOGRAPHIC PATRONS! DO NOT USE THIS POST, USE THE TARGET DEMO PATRON TAKES!
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
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- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
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- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
This one is a banger. The Vasquez Rocks, where the TOS episode "Arena" was filmed was used for the scenes down on the planet. One of many times Star Trek has used this location for filming.
thesolarwind
2024-04-27 23:20:30 +0000 UTCNot credible? What was unbelievable or fake about them?
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:09:46 +0000 UTCYou've never seen a canon sawed clean in half? Or an intact one the size of a semi-truck?
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:08:16 +0000 UTCWe must learn to suspend tying to understand and justify every production and design decision. As in life, sometimes things just are the way they are.
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:07:40 +0000 UTCI have no problems with the acting in this one. The overdub of Gosheven's voice is annoying, but so is his stubbornness.
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:06:03 +0000 UTCI think this will be my last Patron Takes discussion participation. 😔 If you now want to stay involved and discussed, you gotta be on the $10 tier. And I'm comfortable contributing where I am at.
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:02:26 +0000 UTCNah.
Jovet
2024-04-26 02:01:31 +0000 UTCWe must learn to suspend disbelief.
Michael Metrick
2024-04-25 12:51:31 +0000 UTCNo such thing as semi-canon. Either it is or it isn't.
Michael Metrick
2024-04-25 12:50:25 +0000 UTCIf I could recommend one episode to someone who has never seen Star Trek, it would be this one. This episode is what Star Trek is all about. Also, they really elevated the musical score for this one.
Matthew Jimenez
2024-04-25 05:15:43 +0000 UTCThe Prime Directive is stupid and completely illogical.
T’Pynyn of Vulcan
2024-04-24 23:08:27 +0000 UTCThis is a good episode, but I feel like it had the potential to become one of the best TNG episodes. There is a lot of world building but ultimately the aliens are not credible.
Syl
2024-04-24 19:31:36 +0000 UTCThis episode really helps to define the Prime Directive in a meaningful sense that Trek really hadn't done prior.
fatproduce
2024-04-24 18:36:58 +0000 UTCAs a religious person and Christian, you can imagine why I don’t like this episode. Don’t get me wrong I fully get behind Captain Picard trying to show them that he is not a God, considering their newfound religion in Picard is clearly a false one especially since her as a religious person, we don’t take kindly to false gods. But what I don’t like is how the episode essentially takes a very anti-religious stance, such as how they say that all sorts of bad things will happen now that they have adopted a religion like inquisitions and holy wars, and acting as if that’s inevitable, when it is not. It also assumes that horrible things like war and genocide, will only happen when when you have religion, and that these people can only be peaceful without religion. They also don’t consider the fact that a religion might develop later on in their history to. It also has the view that any belief in anything that is supernatural is nothing more than superstitious primitive nonsense and therefore a society is more advanced, and enlightened, only when it has thrown off such things. You never hear anyone in this episode argue the pro religious side and argue the good that religion does. The episode only comes out it from the angle that any form of religious belief is bad and negative. Also, I hate Captain Picard’s comment near the beginning about letting the guy die. In all likelihood, if someone saw something weird and extraordinary like that, they would probably be thought of as crazy or they were seeing things. He wouldn’t have a religion just sprout up overnight, but the episode acts like it does because the writers can feel they have to show that the prime directive is always right in the end.
Leighton Cressman
2024-04-24 15:00:56 +0000 UTCWell, Alex you said you wanted Romulan lore, & well the origins of these Mintakans might be related. I'd like to elaborate, & even though what I'd like to say is never brought up in the shows, it may still rub up against the community spoiler rules. Anyone else who knows what I'm talking about, whats the consensus on telling them lore from semi-canon books that doesn't show up on screen?
Justin DiBari
2024-04-24 02:07:19 +0000 UTCWhy didn't Riker take the injured anthropologist into another room away from the bound & gagged Old Bronze Age Vulcan & then Beam out?
Justin DiBari
2024-04-24 00:05:44 +0000 UTCTruly one of the best episodes to make viewers understand Starfleet's Prime Directive. Plus a beautiful soundtrack by Ron Jones. Not the best episode of the season for me, but definitely in my top ten
AnnoHolic ACC
2024-04-23 16:58:06 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorites in the season. It's a great exploration into how Star Fleet has the prime directive and yet puts themselves into a position like this one that was totally avoidable. But it explains WHY the Prime Directive exists. This is why. Look how quickly things spiral out of control, how quickly these people attribute everything to Picard as a God. Kinda makes you wonder about humans and how their theology may have developed...
Jack Shipley
2024-04-23 12:22:13 +0000 UTC(Star-Trek-Eye-Borg) Quite frankly I'll be surprised if you don't love this episode. I've always considered it an example of TNG at its best and definitely a sign the writing team had gotten their mojo.
startrekiborg
2024-04-23 07:25:20 +0000 UTCAs a fairly religious person, some of what Picard says during this episode rubbed me the wrong way, but as I've gotten older I've noticed that he wasn't completely discounting religion as such, he just didn't want people to assume he was a god, given his own fallibilities. This episode does pop up on a lot of "Top 10 TNG episodes" lists, and I agree with them... this is where the show starts to get even better.
Jason C.
2024-04-23 05:48:22 +0000 UTCAn extremely stilted, unnatural way of speaking, like they were on a stage and had to shout their lines so the people in the very back could hear. Emotionless shouting. This was particularly bad in Ensigns of Command where the main antagonist on the village has his voice dubbed over by an actor who sat in a sound studio and loudly monotoned all lines.
Ian Westcott
2024-04-23 03:32:06 +0000 UTCI love this one. An actual great use of the prime directive, and a perfect example of what Star Trek is all about.
Steven Linden
2024-04-23 00:38:05 +0000 UTCI wouldn't read too much into it. I actually never really noticed that the Romulans or Vulcans have riddddges.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:26:44 +0000 UTCYeah, that's always bugged me, too.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:24:23 +0000 UTCThere are some subtle word choices that soften the "anti-religious" aspect. While the word "god" is thrown around very occasionally, "overseer" is the preferred word the Mintakans use. "Supreme being" is referenced once. Troi talked about a "supernatural being" versus saying god or deity.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:22:41 +0000 UTCDid you read my final sentence there...?
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:13:10 +0000 UTCWhat don't you like about the guest acting? In both named episodes.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:11:58 +0000 UTCOh, one thing you may want to keep in mind is that the gift that Picared receives at the end.
Tim b
2024-04-22 23:42:57 +0000 UTCI really like this episode and it left quite an impression on me as a kid. It taught me that superstition can make good people do bad things. However, these days I also find it a bit simlistic in some aspects, it seems to be implying that religion is something that every civilcation must and will eventually overcome. Even though I'm an atheist myself, I suspect religion is always going to be around in one way or another.
Tim b
2024-04-22 23:35:28 +0000 UTCI'm glad to see this one held up as well as I remember. Given it's a prime directive episode, I have no idea where you guys are going to come down on it.
Nick Sauer
2024-04-22 23:29:27 +0000 UTCPulaski does get a mention, with the "Pulaski" memory wipe technique which Pulaski used in Pen Pals
Martin Wiggan
2024-04-22 21:04:33 +0000 UTCI wonder if the Mintakan look was a makeup mistake. The script notes "proto-vulcan apparently means slanted eyebrows, pointed ears" but doesn't mention head ridges. The Mintakans however are are given the same TNG makeup revision the Romulans got.
JGoss
2024-04-22 20:55:46 +0000 UTCBroken record, but ... another top notch Ron Jones score.
JGoss
2024-04-22 20:41:29 +0000 UTC@Eric - I didn't quite word that right, and made an edit to better reflect what I was trying to say.
JGoss
2024-04-22 20:31:55 +0000 UTC@Evan - the background given on the Mintakans is that they believed in ghosts, supernatural beings, the stars controlling their fate, a fairly broad collection of Earth 'western' and 'eastern' religion, which we are told the Mintakans completely put away. It went beyond just believing in a god.
JGoss
2024-04-22 20:22:39 +0000 UTCI'm sure it was good enough for 1990 TVs
Evan Guthrie
2024-04-22 19:42:45 +0000 UTCPerhaps not outright anti-religious, but a refutation to the "god-of-the-gaps" mindset.
Evan Guthrie
2024-04-22 19:41:27 +0000 UTCWhile your interpretation of history is debatable, regardless of that I don't think the point of the episode was to show their religion went completely atheistic, just that someone they thought was a god was not so. It's like Native Americans discovering Europeans are not gods (they thought they were at first).
Evan Guthrie
2024-04-22 19:39:11 +0000 UTCOr they could have probably made a realistic dummy of the person and beamed him out while beaming the dummy in at the same time. They aren't going to do an autopsy. If they seem to think the person blinked out for a second, it wouldn't be that strange to be world altering.
Eric Wilson
2024-04-22 19:11:25 +0000 UTCI wouldn't say history shows that at all. There is no reason I can see in universe or out that religion is inversely related to science.
Eric Wilson
2024-04-22 19:08:11 +0000 UTCI’ve always liked this one! I adore most of season 3 it’s hard to think of the ones I don’t like.
Philbot
2024-04-22 19:07:21 +0000 UTCMy mom would always get frusterated at me for "grunting" as a response whenever I did that. I've tried explaining the differences in sounds, but I don't think its taken.
Nolan
2024-04-22 18:39:21 +0000 UTCI was going to mention the Mintakan tapestry, as you mention, it will appear in many episodes in Picard's quarters in TNG and more.
Data's Small Talk
2024-04-22 17:07:26 +0000 UTCOne part of this episode doesn't ring true to me. Primitive civilizations typically embrace religion, spirituality and belief in the unseen, and once scientific and technological advancements progress to give them diversity in thought, then atheism, agnosticism would increase. Nothing in this civilization showed me WHY they decided to drop religion and superstition, because some of them were so eager to go right back into it. It didn't feel organic.
JGoss
2024-04-22 16:35:41 +0000 UTCI hated this episode as a kid. Heard it was a "classic," a "fan favorite," so I rewatched it. Hated it again, still hate it, but maybe that's the point. The main proto-Vulcan actor did such a great job being obtuse that I hate this entire "PC load letter" episode. Say what you will about the Pakleds, Dude, at least they had a scheme.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-04-22 16:19:55 +0000 UTCWell, he DID have a life-changing experience. He saw things he didn't understand, got shocked, fell off a cliffface, and woke up in a strange place with strange people.
Jovet
2024-04-22 13:23:14 +0000 UTCGreat Picard episode. The Prime Directive seems overused sometimes, but since this was an unintentional crisis, did you think it was still overkill? One last thing. Now season 3 is in motion, what do you think about the cosmetic changes? New uniforms, intro, new cinematographer and style?
Chris S.
2024-04-22 12:57:31 +0000 UTCThere's a hilarious TNG podcast on youtube that goes on about Pulaski being a better doctor all the time. It's pretty funny.
tyranusfan
2024-04-22 12:26:26 +0000 UTCAll Riker had to do was walk up onto that covered bridge and get beamed up. No need to walk slowly out into broad daylight to be spotted immediately.
tyranusfan
2024-04-22 12:25:42 +0000 UTCI really like that the Mintakans are proto-Vulcans. It low-key justifies so many races just being makeup-less humans elsewhere in the show when there are other races that have parallel offspring themselves on other planets. Also, any episode set on the Vasquez rocks from TOS "Arena" is a winner for me.
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-04-22 11:54:03 +0000 UTCNow THIS is how you do a Prime Directive story.
Column Meanie
2024-04-22 10:13:20 +0000 UTCI think they are showing that heightened emotions like grief and desperation can be a catalyst for extreme beliefs like cults and such. He was still in mourning for his wife and desperate for salvation of sorts.
Andrea R
2024-04-22 06:57:46 +0000 UTCI love this episode. Just super interesting and charming and reminds of of what Star Trek is about. The future is a time when we will have our shit together and we have altruistic consideration for other cultures.
Michael Nemo
2024-04-22 06:49:33 +0000 UTCSo when Picard mentions Pulaski's technique Crusher seems defensive (I am familiar with it). When she tries to do it she can't and says it's because of the species unusual brain structure. But they have very similar brains to Vulcans. And the species that Pulaski did it on seemed to be much less common. Now of course Vulcan type brains are complex...so maybe that's it. But maybe Pulaski is just a better doctor than Crusher...🤷♂️🤔
Greg Quinn
2024-04-22 05:59:40 +0000 UTCLot's a good moments in this episode, and a good chance for Patrick Stuart to ACT. I found the anti-religious message a bit heavy handed and poorly argued, but I do appreciate an episode that is willing to make a clear statement and not just mouth platitudes that sound good to the audience.
Cirk Bejnar
2024-04-22 05:50:47 +0000 UTCPrime Directive episode! To me, this is one of the things that really make Star Trek, you know, "Star Trek." The biggest threat isn't anything the natives can do, it's the ethical tightrope the crew has to walk. Classic Trek.
Paul O'Neal
2024-04-22 05:35:40 +0000 UTCAnother great episode, thoughtful and with superb performances throughout. Good callback to Pulaski in Pen Pals. Third episode in a row with lots for Marina Sirtis to do, another example of her great chemistry with Jonathan Frakes. Knowing Troi, her look of fear at the end will have been underlined by her powers - she believed he meant to kill her and wasn’t bluffing.
Paul Rymer
2024-04-22 05:35:06 +0000 UTCA big pet peeve of mine is dead bodies breathing. Lois Hall, who plays Dr. Warren, is not seen to breathe after she dies as Nuria and Picard approach her. Good for her and the director! After the camera zooms in, the top of her hand is just barely visible as it rests upon her torso, and you can see it moving. But that's only noticeable if you really look for it, so it's pretty forgivable.
Jovet
2024-04-22 05:11:40 +0000 UTCAfter Dr. Warren dies, I've always thought it was odd how everyone runs away from her straight away. LOL
Jovet
2024-04-22 05:08:36 +0000 UTCThe actress playing Nuria is fantastic. Her face is sooo expressive. She's great when she "no longer fears Picard" but her best moment is still in the transporter room. Picard tells her to look at him, and you can see it all wash over her: fear and trepidation, then slight curiosity, then she looks at him and is shocked for an instant, and then it's "wow he's really different from me" and rampant curiosity!
Jovet
2024-04-22 05:04:06 +0000 UTCPeople seem to think this episode sucks, but I've always liked it. I wish the guest acting was a bit better (at least it's not as bad as Ensigns of Command was in that respect). Too bad, I really liked Ray Wise in Twin Peaks.
Ian Westcott
2024-04-22 05:04:02 +0000 UTCPicard's "Live in huts" speech/conversation is some of the best writing. You guys will really dig it!!
Jovet
2024-04-22 05:00:39 +0000 UTCYou two didn't have to wait 20 years for new Trek to come out...When this premiered it was like a slice of grandma's homemade bread. That flavor, writing and style that brings you back to OG TOS. - TNG is really getting their legs under them now.
Badger
2024-04-22 04:55:25 +0000 UTCThere are some very weird holes in Data's knowledge of humanity. In this episodes he needs a translator for Deanna's yes and no sounds. Has he really never encountered that before?
Phillip Grischa
2024-04-22 04:49:52 +0000 UTCThis episode makes me think about how easy it is for people to give in to superstition or conspiracy when lack of knowledge exists. A timeless story. Picard’s reasoned explanations are legendary.
Erik Baca
2024-04-22 04:41:54 +0000 UTCYeah, but he's similar to Vulcans. He's let his passions run away with him.
Nolan
2024-04-22 04:21:14 +0000 UTCPicard, explaining to Nuria that he isn't God: "What does God need with a Starship?"
Nolan
2024-04-22 04:19:40 +0000 UTCA very good, Star Trek-y episode. Vasquez Rocks, the Mintakans being described as "proto-Vulcan", solid integration of the Prime Directive, some strong Picard scenes. Good stuff all around. And keep your eye out for the cloth the Mintakans gift to Picard at the end, he displays it prominently in his quarters after this.
Avaria
2024-04-22 04:17:52 +0000 UTCPrediction: You both will "hurrah!" slightly at the mention of Dr. Pulaski's technique.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:15:37 +0000 UTCDr. Barron should have been fired. His approach to "fixing" the contamination was ludicrous. He's not fit to be a scientist of his specialty.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:15:14 +0000 UTCPrediction: You two are gonna wince at all the primey-whimey directive-perspective stuff dealt with in this episode. But you'll enjoy it.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:10:28 +0000 UTCLOL!
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:09:54 +0000 UTCAnd by the end he's all laughs and smiles and completely over it, and THEN they all learn that the humans never meant to reveal themselves... which you would have thought would be an important point to convey earlier...
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:09:21 +0000 UTCYup! Top 20 for sure!
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:08:09 +0000 UTCLOL! I didn't actually think of that once!! (Maybe 'coz it didn't actually hit him in the heart...) But it's true.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:07:31 +0000 UTCClarke has, for many years, been one of my most-favorite authors. So, when Picard says "It's Magic" in that sweet, whispery voice... it is a hell of a thing to me.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:06:20 +0000 UTCNah, it's an A. Maybe an A–.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:04:59 +0000 UTCI really thought she does sound like a boy! But I never watched that show much.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:04:45 +0000 UTCMissed opportunity for Liko's arrow to get Picard in the heart valve again, waking up at starbase with guest star Pulaski staring down at him "But I just put this in here!"
Alan Thompson
2024-04-22 04:00:53 +0000 UTCOne of the highlights of the third season. While even as an agnostic I think the ranting against religion is a bit overwrought, one could see and understand Picard's revulsion at being cast as a god. And we return to the Vasquez rocks. First seen in Star Trek as the Arena that Kirk and Gorn fight in and later as Vulcan in Star Trek 4. Another remarkable exploration of the prime directive.
Mike Rogers
2024-04-22 03:47:35 +0000 UTCPicard trying to convince Nuria he isn't a god is very reminiscent of "How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?"
Evan Guthrie
2024-04-22 03:36:47 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite episodes. Well-written, well-acted. Looking forward to your take.
Haven SMM
2024-04-22 03:24:32 +0000 UTCAs someone who isn't particularily devoute, but still has some Faith, I too love this episode. A Single person's belief can be fine, but a group's religious ideals can be a nightmare.
Nolan
2024-04-22 03:18:32 +0000 UTCI like most of this episode, but the one thing that bugs me is how cartoonishly stubborn Liko is in his beliefs. It's not like he was raised in those beliefs all his life and never questioned them. He adopted those beliefs literally that morning as his best guess to explain what he experienced. I know he's meant to represent the danger of unreasonable dogmatism, but it doesn't ring true for him to be so dogmatic about beliefs he made up himself earlier that day.
Jeff Cornell
2024-04-22 03:15:48 +0000 UTCI love this episode. Took my semi-religious butt awhile to reconcile my beliefs with Picard's speech about "superstitious dark ages" but I think that's more about a society grappling with such beliefs over individual faith. Plus, this species are proto-Vulcans, we know their unrestrained passions go HARD. Best not to start a holy war on their planet.
Nolan
2024-04-22 03:15:30 +0000 UTCUnder Nuria’s Mintakan makeup is Kathryn Leigh Scott from the original 1960s Dark Shadows. She was Josette (and all of her reincarnations and lookalike) the object of the vampire’s love/obsession. All in all I’ve always loved this episode. I wouldn’t call it my top ten, but definitely top 20!
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-04-22 02:58:21 +0000 UTCThis is the first episode of Season 3 I'm really excited about seeing your reaction to. This is one of my personal favorite episodes. I like that it also is another close look at the Prime Directive and gives you some idea of WHY the Prime Directive is "capital P" Prime. (It's a bitch of a directive too....)
John
2024-04-22 02:55:54 +0000 UTCWhat a wonderful episode, and a really great exploration of the Prime Directive. Poor Jean-Luc, though ... The first thing I thought when he got that arrow was damn, he just got that heart of his fixed! At least Pulaski gets a mention in this episode.
David Wayne Fox
2024-04-22 02:47:02 +0000 UTCI like how enthusiastic Riker is about getting dressed up again.
Leo Greenwood
2024-04-22 02:44:08 +0000 UTCVery good episode. What would you do if some lest advanced people thought you were a god?
Troy Massey
2024-04-22 02:36:51 +0000 UTCRich of RLM named this as his favorite episode of the series. Maybe a bit of an eccentric pick, but it's certainly not a bad one. One of the things that stood out to him, and in retrospect to me, is how anti-religion this episode is. The Star Fleet characters regard the Mintakans' growing religious belief as a regression in their civilization.
Eric Brinkmann
2024-04-22 02:36:06 +0000 UTCThis is possibly my favorite Prime Directive story. Ties directly to Arthur C Clark's saying that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Keep your eyes open going forward for the little tapestry the Mintakans give Picard at the end. It will be frequent set dressing in Picard's various rooms for years to come, a great little nod to continuity and the importance of these people to Picard. He was willing to die to preserve their rationality.
Alexander McKechnie
2024-04-22 02:30:07 +0000 UTCA classic Trek episode, and one of my favorites out of all TNG. As someone who is no longer religious, the scene where Picard convinces Nuria that he is not a god by taking her step-by-step through the logic really speaks to me personally.
Cameron Thacker
2024-04-22 02:28:31 +0000 UTCI never made that connection. Thanks!
Moonlander
2024-04-22 02:24:50 +0000 UTCAn excellent episode. I still only grade it a B, however. Decent acting all around, though PIcard is again in his element here, and you can hardly go wrong with a Picard episode when he's facing down the Prime Directive.
wildhunt1973
2024-04-22 02:22:54 +0000 UTCIf the voice of Oji sounds familiar, it's because actress Pamela Adlon is most famous for playing Bobby on King of the Hill.
THE LORE!!!
2024-04-22 02:22:08 +0000 UTCVasquez Rocks returns!!! You most likely recognize this location from the TOS episode "The Arena". This is also a really good Prime Directive episode, especially compared to early attempts in TNG such as "Pen Pals", and "Justice". IMO this makes 3 bangers in a row, and Season 3 has only just begun.
ijp8834
2024-04-22 02:20:12 +0000 UTCAhh, finally, The Picard has blessed this episode upon the Target Audience! My favorite moment here is easily when they bring up Nuria. You can just see how much Jean-Luc is admiring her coming to the realizations that nothing is beyond her people’s reach! The music here is also absolutely outstanding!
The Game Show Reviewer
2024-04-22 02:19:50 +0000 UTCLove this episode. Prime Directive can be an awesome plot device if you use it correctly. Picard is the best.
Elway Simpson
2024-04-22 02:18:21 +0000 UTCThis is the episode that brought me back to the series. It overwhelmingly felt like all the best things about Star Trek. The writing is brilliant, the score exciting and Patrick Stewart especially.....is fantastic! This is the beginning of some incredible episodes to come! Not just good ones.....great ones!! :)
Dale Gonyea
2024-04-22 02:16:38 +0000 UTC
