PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 3
Added 2024-04-22 02:13:41 +0000 UTCTARGET DEMOGRAPHIC PATRONS! DO NOT USE THIS POST, USE THE TARGET DEMO PATRON TAKES!
Comment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
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- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
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- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday, so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
I don't agree. Certain aspects become old, such as Troi always becoming victim... but the performance at the end was devastating.
Michael Metrick
2024-04-27 15:37:11 +0000 UTC* steal enterprise * throw a bunch of torpedoes at the populated areas of a pre-warp planet
Tim b
2024-04-26 20:59:53 +0000 UTCHe could have cloaked the entire planet, temporarily. He could have transported the attacking Husnock ships 1000 light years away. He could have changed all their weaponry to cheese. There is a laundry list of things he could have done to stop the attack and destruction of the colony—things that did not involve killing.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:56:33 +0000 UTCThe Federation's citizens are not capable of implementing genocide and thus have no law forbidding it. We, today, don't have a law against blowing up the Earth. But we can all agree that would be a heinous thing to do. But none of us are capable of effecting it.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:53:03 +0000 UTCAnd lame at the same time.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:52:13 +0000 UTC@Brooke Hill I disagree. The humans all wanted to fight. He didn't pick THAT up. He didn't pick up any desire for defense. The entire plot of the episode hinges around the idea that any sort of defense against the attack would have required killing. It wouldn't have!
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:51:38 +0000 UTC@badvertised What reason is that? I would think a species that can or will destroy entire Federation colonies would be pretty notorious.
Jovet
2024-04-26 01:47:40 +0000 UTCIn fact he died only 3 years after this.
David Brown
2024-04-25 17:19:32 +0000 UTCA forgotten episode, now I see how powerful it is.
Michael Metrick
2024-04-25 12:45:38 +0000 UTCThis TOS style episode feels like a weird "sweet melancholy". EDIT : I'm a fraud, I read the other comments, I forgot about the genocide !
Syl
2024-04-24 19:16:52 +0000 UTCI had completely forgotten about this episode. I think the only thing that ever stuck with me was "Good tea. Nice house"
Jeffrey
2024-04-24 15:10:40 +0000 UTCMost "Twighlight Zone" ending of a TNG episode so far
Justin DiBari
2024-04-24 13:21:31 +0000 UTCPreach. I love this one, one of my favourites of the season. John Anderson steals the show. His big scene towards the end turns me into a sobbing wreck.
JHVJ
2024-04-23 21:00:50 +0000 UTCI consider this the most underrated episode in all of Trek. First time I saw it, “All Husnock everywhere” hit me like a ton of bricks.
John M.
2024-04-23 18:20:29 +0000 UTCThis one had a very TOS feel to it. I could see this as a TOS episode. Heckuva twist.
Crankygrandma
2024-04-23 17:50:38 +0000 UTCYes, you would definitely think he could "cloak" the house. But maybe once he created that and his wife he thought they were remote enough no one would come by. And he didn't notice the Enterprise until the crew beamed down.
Joe Concepts
2024-04-23 16:42:13 +0000 UTCIt's probably too late but this is one of those episodes with great actors and a super thin narrative. There's a lot of "we need this for the plot to work" situations. All the powerful things this dude can do, and the one thing he can't is hide his presence on the planet from spaceships. I like the idea of this one, and the performances are great, but wasn't a fan of the execution.
Jack Shipley
2024-04-23 12:14:09 +0000 UTCWhat could he do? He'd have just as easy of a time arresting Q.
startrekiborg
2024-04-23 07:37:26 +0000 UTC(Star-Trek-Eye-Borg) This one is a bit of a mixed bag. The writing isn't bad, but I've always found it a bit dull. It's only saving grace is Kevin's confession at the end. That can't help but catch your attention, but then the episode is over.
startrekiborg
2024-04-23 07:33:42 +0000 UTCWhile not the most entertaining episode of TNG, this one does bring up a host of philosophical questions, and like Picard, I find there's no simple cut and dried answer to any of them. All in all, for the most part a rather average episode, but one that makes you think for a while afterwards.
Jason C.
2024-04-23 05:41:15 +0000 UTCIs there such a thing as the genocide equivalent of 3rd degree murder or man-slaughter though? Kevin lashed out in a moment of grief and rage that probably was for him was the equivalent of a human accidentally punching someone else so hard they were killed. Also how the heck do you even prosecute a being of such power? Picard was right in leaving him alone.
Matthew Riley
2024-04-23 00:36:58 +0000 UTCGood episodes, except.... "We have no law to fit your crime..." Uh... what? How about "genocide"? I never understood that line.
Tim b
2024-04-22 23:22:23 +0000 UTCI don't know how you guys will feel about this episode. I don't know how fans feel about this episode. But I have always liked this episode a lot, part of the reason is the acting of John Anderson especially the confession, and the other part is I always remember watching this episode with my grandfather who is the reason I started watching Star Trek and other sci-fi shows. He passed away 6 years ago. After he passed I binge watched TNG starting with this episode.
Martin Wiggan
2024-04-22 20:55:30 +0000 UTCI was watching an old video tape the other day of After MASH. She was playing the hospital's phone operator in that episode.
Dan Krantz
2024-04-22 19:09:53 +0000 UTCThis episode stuck with me after the first airing for years. It was not until recently that I discovered that John Anderson had lost his wife a short time before filming. What a performance. Best is yet to come tho
Miah1138
2024-04-22 19:09:03 +0000 UTCDo you agree with Picard's decision?
John Carpenter
2024-04-22 16:56:27 +0000 UTCAh, no wonder he gave such a good performance. Reminds me of Field of Dreams. The actor who played John Kinsella had just lost his father before filming his scenes, which he said impacted his performance.
JGoss
2024-04-22 16:52:10 +0000 UTCAlso funnier because just before the line, he winces from the tea.
JGoss
2024-04-22 16:44:37 +0000 UTCI mean, there's a pretty good reason in the episode why nobody's heard of them in a while...
badvertised
2024-04-22 16:41:53 +0000 UTCNow ish is getting real. I'd watch Anne Haney read a phone book, and if John Anderson's performance doesn't move you then consult a doctor. No spoilers, but it's worth checking the IMDB trivia to find out what he had just gone through before filming the episode.
badvertised
2024-04-22 15:17:45 +0000 UTCThis is one of my favorite TNG episodes. It keeps the audience guessing and John Anderson’s performance is outstanding (especially the final scene). I find it interesting to compare Kevin to Q. Both seemingly all powerful beings - but there is one thing Kevin can’t do that Q can - and that is reversed death. I’ve always wondered if that fact is what gives him a strong moral compass, as opposed to Q.
Brian K
2024-04-22 13:53:50 +0000 UTCRacking my brain trying to figure out where I had seen Anne Haney before. Liar, Liar and Mrs. Doubtfire!
Matt G Cowart
2024-04-22 13:42:24 +0000 UTCAside from the plot, which is great, we really get a full look of the Galaxy Class firepower, but it still got its ass kicked and the crewman on the bridge took a serious bump and got wrecked. Another great example of the audience trying to figure out the mystery as you guys are. Even Picard looked over to see that guy get blasted.
Chris S.
2024-04-22 12:34:01 +0000 UTCA personal favorite of mine. The scene where Kevin reveals what he’s done is well acted and provides a good twist on the mystery.
tyranusfan
2024-04-22 12:24:45 +0000 UTCWith a lesser leading guest star this one wouldn't be as good, but main guy really sells his whole performance. He's like the anti-god character trope from Star Trek where he is tormented by his own power rather than embracing it. This is also one of the episodes when I watch I can't help but think "Oh this actor is so dead by now.".
EnigmaticPenguin
2024-04-22 11:57:40 +0000 UTCLove the guest performances by John Anderson and Anne Heche. This episode has a bit of a Twilight Zone feel to it, which makes it even that much better. Kevin’s speech about what really happened still haunts me. “Oh how I wish I could’ve died with her…”. No one understands that kind of pain until you’ve experienced it for yourself. Lastly, Crusher is saying lines written for Pulaski here. One of the last scripts written with Pulaski as the doctor.
Column Meanie
2024-04-22 10:16:31 +0000 UTCI'm generally not a fan of the whole god-like being trope but, this episode is, in my opinion, the best use of the concept. I had forgotten how powerful the last act was form my earlier viewings. Great stuff.
Nick Sauer
2024-04-22 09:59:12 +0000 UTCAnd not just the men… but the women! And the children!
James H
2024-04-22 08:58:30 +0000 UTCI really like this episode, the acting is great especially in the final act. The image of the perfect green square of garden surrounded by nothing but wasteland from the Enterprise viewscreen has stuck in my mind since I first saw the episode. These sorts of pure sci-fi stories are what TNG does best - I think you'll like it!
Alan F
2024-04-22 07:07:06 +0000 UTCI really like this episode, especially having John Anderson as guest star. He really does great work here, made you feel the raw pain of losing someone and trying to move on in your grief. Just fantastic work.
Brooke Hill
2024-04-22 06:57:56 +0000 UTCWell, Starfleet itself has their Prime Directive, where they are not allowed to interfere with civilizations that are not warp-capable yet so it's not too outside of the thinking that maybe Kevin picked that kind of morality from humans. Something tells me that Kevin picked up more mannerisms from humanity than he intended, probably before he even met Rishon when he was in disguise.
Brooke Hill
2024-04-22 06:53:07 +0000 UTCNo Spoilers: One of THE most memorable episodes for me ever because of the reveal. Truly shocking and very Star Trek; although the tone at the end is very Deep Space Nine to me.
Michael Nemo
2024-04-22 06:47:27 +0000 UTCThe easy thing to do would have been having Picard argue with a stubborn Uxbridge to convince him that genocide is wrong and he should feel bad. I'm so glad they didn't. Instead, we got a genuinely new twist on the good ol' demigod-behaving-badly episode.
bab
2024-04-22 06:21:37 +0000 UTCNot to mention, they've already seen similar from the Borg and the Crystalline Entity
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:14:38 +0000 UTCAn upside down Riker going "whoop!" and bouncing off the pole still makes me laugh to this day.
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:03:24 +0000 UTCIt's funny hearing you two praise the first couple episodes' writing for "figuring" out Troi. Then here they resort to mentally torturing her to block her telepathic abilities. Though I suppose it's an upgrade from having her "away for a conference"
JGoss
2024-04-22 06:02:12 +0000 UTCI think Kevin said something along the lines of he would do whatever Picard/the Federation saw fit. So if that was sit in a cell for 200 years he'd do that. Of course who knows if he'd stick to that.
Greg Quinn
2024-04-22 05:41:55 +0000 UTCQ would probably say something along the lines of "I don't really give a shit either way"....
Greg Quinn
2024-04-22 05:39:27 +0000 UTCThere is an old argument that alien species would likely develop similar codes of morality if they manage to survive. Maybe what's more unrealistic is so many species being war like. Those species would probably have blown themselves up sometime after developing nuclear weapons.
Greg Quinn
2024-04-22 05:37:44 +0000 UTCI like this episode. It's a solid Star Trek story in the same vein as some TOS episodes. The crew encounters a god-like being and the trick is how to talk through the situation, because literally nothing they are going to do can even give him pause. It could have been forgettable, but the performances here really sell the episode. Another solid episode in what is shaping up to be a great season, yes?
Paul O'Neal
2024-04-22 05:31:32 +0000 UTCDefinitely one I appreciate more as an adult, and on a rewatch. The final twist is a gut-punch. Good acknowledgement from the writers that it’s one situation Troi could have resolved if she hadn’t been deliberately sidelined by Kevin.
Paul Rymer
2024-04-22 05:29:38 +0000 UTCAn absolutely incredible ending. Yet another "this could have been a disaster if the guest actors weren't so good." Actor John Anderson had recently lost his wife, and he described Kevin's tearful confession of his grief and anger when Reshan died as one of the hardest roles he'd ever had to play.
Ian Westcott
2024-04-22 05:01:22 +0000 UTCWould an entity of "special conscience" really allow 11000+ people to die—including his belovëd wife—solely because he vowed to live as a human? It is a pretty exceptional circumstance. But, it also gets pretty fuzzy, with "what did he know" and "when did he know it"s and such questions. Personally, I have issue with this. Once he knew what was happening, he could have stopped it in its tracks and that would be the end of it. No one would have known what he had done, and no one (or very few) would have (already) died.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:44:49 +0000 UTCMarina Siris once ranted abut the dress she starts wearing in this episode. Most people assumed that she was wearing tights separate from the dress but it was actually a onesie with an attached skirt, it was hard to take off and it took her 10 minutes to go pee. She also said the asymmetrical cut made her boobs look lopsided. She was not a fan.
Phillip Grischa
2024-04-22 04:44:02 +0000 UTCI finally figured out what has always bugged me about this one. I wrote about it in another comment here.
Jovet
2024-04-22 04:38:00 +0000 UTCA different take on the God figure story. I really enjoyed the reveal and it has stuck with me all these years. Not perfect, but solid.
MrDeadstu
2024-04-22 04:24:17 +0000 UTCI do not normally like godlike eps but for some reason I like this one.
Prof Moff
2024-04-22 04:15:27 +0000 UTCYes, and in hindsight I imagine that is well up there on his list of profound regrets. But he did also tell Captain Picard that he intentionally forsook his powers when he decided to make a life with Rishon. Her loss was so devastating to him that he lashed out in grief without being fully conscious of his action until after it had been taken. And has since had to live with the horror of that, Rishon being both a perpetual reminder and a balm against insanity. At least that's how I've always interpreted it.
Avaria
2024-04-22 04:05:18 +0000 UTCI do have a small issue with the writer(s) so freely giving human morals, values, and perceptions to such a completely different and rather unrelatable creature.
Jovet
2024-04-22 03:56:47 +0000 UTCThis is another episode where the idea is better than the episode turned out to be. The reveal does elevate the entire episode, but is this really a 45 minute story? This would have been a truly great half hour Twilight Zone episode.
Nerd's Gold
2024-04-22 03:54:19 +0000 UTCI guess what really annoys me about this episode is that "Kevin" had the power to stop the attack without killing anyone. And he didn't. Duhhhhhhhh. All he had to do was disarm the Husnock ship(s). He could have turned all their weaponry into cheese, and that would have been the end of it. It has taken me 20+ years figure out what's been gnawing at me (or galling me) about this one. I finally have.
Jovet
2024-04-22 03:51:39 +0000 UTCI hope that some viewers will go down the rabbit hole that is John Anderson's IMDB listing, he was in large number of tv shows and films.
Alan Thompson
2024-04-22 03:47:29 +0000 UTCI also appreciate that for most of that scene it's so quiet you can hear the air filter on the fish tank.
Avaria
2024-04-22 03:47:24 +0000 UTCI've always really liked this episode, maybe even a series Top 10. The whimsical style of Kevin's (John Anderson) defenses. Rishon (Anne Haney) being the best grandma. The overall mystery that seeps out in bits and pieces. And then Kevin's confession -- so understated yet heartfelt that you know it's something he's had to sit with, alone, for a long time. That scene comes back to me within moments of the episode starting, every time, so that in 35 years I've never forgotten Kevin Uxbridge or the Husnock.
Avaria
2024-04-22 03:41:28 +0000 UTCA worthy episode that is none the less not very remembered among the greats of TNG. It actually makes you think about the drawbacks of being an all powerful being if you have a conscience. And how in a moment of profound grief and anger you could end up doing something you could never forgive yourself for. Kudos to Marina Sirtis for playing out the pain and madness of not being able to shut out the music.
Mike Rogers
2024-04-22 03:36:00 +0000 UTCThis might be my personal favorite of the entire show. It's eerie and mysterious, not giving the audience any more info than the crew has, and each scene raises even more questions. Then the final reveal is harrowing, leaving a pit in your stomach and a lump in your throat. Plus we get another great Worf line: "Good tea, nice house." Overall a perfect episode.
Evan Guthrie
2024-04-22 03:20:54 +0000 UTC[16:46] in the episode, Riker slides his head backwards in puzzlement or bemusement. Never noticed that before. Pretty funny pose!
Jovet
2024-04-22 03:18:24 +0000 UTCI really enjoyed this episode. In the end, I don’t see that there is much that can be done to punish the Douwd for the atrocities he committed. If he was truly a man of special conscience, then he will live with that remorse for all eternity. The self-imposed exile seems like a reasonable option considering that he is immortal and what he is capable of.
Haven SMM
2024-04-22 03:16:59 +0000 UTCHypothetically, Part 2 of the episode would be Picard calling Q down as an appropriate arbiter and judge, cause there's nothing a human could do to punish Kevin cause there's certainly nothing we could do against that power.
Nolan
2024-04-22 03:10:34 +0000 UTCPeople might really judge Kevin at the end for his xenocide, but I always took it as an action with no intention behind it. You stub a toe on a chair, you wanna throw the frickin chair. Someone you love dies of some disease or traffic accident, you're mad at the illness or other driver and wanna lash out. You don't cause you can't hurt a disease and the other person isn't around. So you work through the anger, it's part of the greiving process. But what if that initial flare of anger was as easy as thinking? That's what we see here. A creature so in denial, not just about his dead wife, but wanting to avoid the guilt and shame of what he did. He was too powerful and not powerful enough. And what could Picard do in the face of that power? Lock him up? Try capital punishment? Against a creature with Godlike powers? Although...
Nolan
2024-04-22 03:08:30 +0000 UTCThis episode is overlooked a lot, which I think is a bit of a shame. The revelation at the end takes a fairly run-of-the-mill mystery and turns it into a wrenching examination of pain and regret. The fact that this peaceful being has spent millenia keeping a tight control on his immense powers only to commit total genocide in a grief-stricken moment of weakness is a shock that lingers long after the episode has ended.
Regan
2024-04-22 03:06:15 +0000 UTCThis episode should make you think about it after you've watched it. It also has one of the single best acted and directed performances of a guest star, IMO.
Paul Sage
2024-04-22 02:59:31 +0000 UTCIf you ignore the matter of enforcemet, Kevin was a non-Federation citizen, who was in a state of temporary insanity.
ijp8834
2024-04-22 02:54:59 +0000 UTCPicard had no power to enforce any other decision he might have made.
Regan
2024-04-22 02:53:27 +0000 UTCRiker [1:43] "Who would cause devastation on that order?" For some reason, no one you've ever heard of or encountered before.
Jovet
2024-04-22 02:52:41 +0000 UTCI haven't watched this episode in forever. (Many years; it's not one of the ones I go back to time and again.) It's gonna be pretty much brand new for me, I suppose. People talk about a twist, and I don't know what it is/can't remember it. So.... should be some fun.
John
2024-04-22 02:49:51 +0000 UTCI don't like this episode as much as some people here do (because it's morally abhorrent), but it's a pretty good mystery and head-scratcher that is hard to guess or predict. I do predict you two will love it. If I think about it, it has a pretty TOS-y vibe to it.
Jovet
2024-04-22 02:49:14 +0000 UTCHe's learned curtness and brevity as a form of humanoid politeness.
Jovet
2024-04-22 02:47:20 +0000 UTCFor some reason I always forget the ending of this, so when I rewatched it I was shocked at how powerful and haunting it is. Wonderful, agonizing performance by Marina Sirtis, and when Kevin talks about the genocide of an entire species the look on Picard's face is amazing...beyond shock or judgement, almost disbelief.
David Wayne Fox
2024-04-22 02:40:37 +0000 UTCYou’re going to love the final downer captains log. It’s on par with “let’s get the hell out of here” from City On The Edge Of Forever. Also, Worf saying “Good tea… nice house” is both hilarious and wonderfully in character.
Stuart Arbury
2024-04-22 02:38:45 +0000 UTCGood Worf lines in this one. I especially like the "good tea, nice house" and the exchange with Kevin when he says he admires his gall.
THE LORE!!!
2024-04-22 02:30:55 +0000 UTCThis episode and the ones before I think are excellent but are just missing SOMETHING to keep them from being outstanding. Personal opinion, and if you love this episode, I can't disagree with you. There's just something missing, and I can't quite place my finger on it. Otherwise it is a good episode with a decent idea.
wildhunt1973
2024-04-22 02:26:07 +0000 UTCThis is Star Trek at its finest. It's a great standalone story. It raises many questions, leading to more discussion and expanding the greater universe. I've always wondered: Have the Doud and the Q ever met? What would happen if they did? Who would win? Would anything be left after the fight?
Justin B
2024-04-22 02:23:51 +0000 UTCLove this episode! It's a great weird little mystery and the characters guest characters are excellent!
Alexander McKechnie
2024-04-22 02:22:25 +0000 UTCThis is a great episode of TNG. There is a lot of discourse online on about if Kevin is culpable for his actions, and if he is, did Picard make the right decision (ignoring his ability to enforce such a decision)? What do you think?
ijp8834
2024-04-22 02:17:29 +0000 UTCUm.....holy shit. That was not a twist I was expecting at all when I first watched this. Often forgotten episode(there's so many good ones this year) that is absolutely incredible. I think you'll both like this a lot.
Elway Simpson
2024-04-22 02:17:26 +0000 UTCI wonder how long into the episode we’ll be before Alex & Josh figure out the twist, because that’s a hell of a twist! Some good Worf lines here too. “Good Tea…nice house”
The Game Show Reviewer
2024-04-22 02:16:15 +0000 UTC
