UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S3E2 - The Ensigns of Command
Added 2024-04-21 17:05:40 +0000 UTCBeen making some changes that should improve the video quality and alleviate syncing issues in next week's reactions. Thank you for dealing with it this week.
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Comments
Sorry but the colonists (Colonists) are not native to this world. Nor do we have any direct evidence that they are the only sentient life to ever exist there. They believe they are, but belief doesn't equal fact. And since they didn't expand over the planet, it's highly unlikely they did extensive studies for fossilized records to make such a factual point. The colonists were Federation citizens and under the authority of Federation Treaties all of which predate their arrival on the planet. Period. Even if they were indigenous to that planet, it doesn't alter the fact that Data's argument was absolutely right. And that is they would be utterly annihilated from orbit, without ever having a chance to defend themselves. Data didn't forcibly relocate them. He just provided clarity to the reality of their situation. Something that the colonies leader wasn't providing. They could have chosen to stay and die for their beliefs. And yes Data would absolutely have told native American's to uproot their lives if the threat was capable of destroying them from orbit (or even further distances) without them having a chance to raise a hand to defend their claim. The difference in native American's ability to fight back versus European colonization isn't even remotely similar. Able to destroy them from literally outside of the orbit of the planet, So likely distances of hundreds of thousands of miles, versus the ability of European's of hundreds of meters.
Mark Wood
2024-04-27 21:31:26 +0000 UTCData and Picard getting to be friends is so cool.
SageGreenGoat
2024-04-23 07:53:45 +0000 UTCThe colonists arrived on the planet years after the treaty was signed. I'm also not sure what definition of "native" is being presumed, but "native inhabitants" in my book would have had to have evolved on the planet. So you can throw that essay in the garbage. It was the Enterprise's duty to uphold the treaty. If that meant letting the colonists die by their own choice, so be it, but it's completely wrong for the crew to start fighting the Sheliak (who have done nothing wrong). Goshaven's spirit was in the right place, but his pride clouded his judgement. It is pretty miraculous that the colony survived where it did, but they shouldn't have been there to begin with. Lives really are more important than "things" and Goshaven just comes across as an asshole. I am a bit skeptical that he really could have been that sound of a leader if his thinking in this most-important matter is that woolly.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:50:48 +0000 UTCShe had been a diplomatic resource in the past, already. Just FYI.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:35:33 +0000 UTCAnd they haven't even seen him at his best yet! đ
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:34:11 +0000 UTCThe context is the very first thing Riker or Picard said when Geordi and O'Brien walked into the room: We have a job for you, and we don't want to hear that 'it's impossible." So, the line they didn't laugh at is Geordi's final update to avoid saying to the captain that it's outright impossible, and instead explain how it's not going to happen anytime soon.
Jovet
2024-04-23 00:31:13 +0000 UTCAre you Memory Gamma or an other kind of Star Trek encyclopedia?
Sam Langanke
2024-04-22 20:37:29 +0000 UTCI read somewhere that the water feature played havoc with the dialogue so everything had to be ADRd later on. Iâve often thought there was more to it as why wouldnât you just let him have another go with a different accent?
Jon1701
2024-04-22 19:19:52 +0000 UTCThis episodeâs title comes from, of all places, a poem titled âThe Wants of Manâ by John Quincy Adams, the sixth President of the United States. As far as I can determine, this is the first of only two Star Trek episodes to date with titles derived from quotes by U.S. Presidents, although there are also Star Trek novels called "Last Full Measure" (Lincoln), "Fear Itself" (FDR) and "The Shocks of Adversity" (Washington). âThe Ensigns of Command,â the second episode of TNG Season 3, preceded âEvolutionâ in production order. This is why âEvolutionâ has a Ron Jones score while âEnsignsâ has music by Dennis McCarthy: Jones was still the usual composer for even-numbered episodes, as in the previous two seasons. TV stations carrying TNG in syndication sometimes air âEnsignsâ in production order, before âEvolution,â even though this makes no sense because âEvolutionâ addresses Dr. Crusherâs return. (Then again, the two of you might have been happier seeing âEnsignsâ first because you would have seen Gates McFadden was back in the second shot of the episode rather than in the opening titles.) âEnsignsâ had a troubled production in various respects. In her afterword to a book edition of Harlan Ellisonâs original script for âThe City on the Edge of Forever,â Melinda Snodgrass compares the radical rewrites of her script to those of âCity,â although she acknowledges that even her preferred version of âEnsignsâ was far inferior to Ellisonâs episode. Snodgrassâ version (available on her website) implied that Gosheven and Ardârian were in a relationship, but that did not prevent Ardârian and Data from *consummating* their quasi-romance, which would have been Dataâs first time making love since his encounter with Tasha two seasons earlier. I suspect that viewers might not have responded well to this development (although Snodgrass manages it well), and that the writing staff was right to remove it. The 3rd Revised Final Draft script carries the pseudonym âH. B. Savageâ as the name of the writer, but Snodgrassâ name appears on the finished episode. Someone elseâs name does not appear in the episodeâs credits: Grainger Hines, the actor who played Gosheven. TNGâs producers felt that Hinesâ delivery of Goshevenâs dialogue sounded too much like John Wayne, and another actor rerecorded Goshevenâs lines in ADR. (The voice actorâs name is unknown.) As a result, Grainger Hines requested the removal of his name from the credits. The episode also sustained a last-minute, $200,000 budget cut. One person, however, may have been even more unhappy about his experience with this episode than Snodgrass or Hines: Wil Wheaton. Wheaton had accepted a role in the feature film "Valmont," a prestigious production that would have provided a major boost to his career. "Valmont" was filming in Paris, and its production would conclude in the first week of TNG Season 3. Wheaton did not anticipate that this would be a problem because he knew that the first two Season 3 episodes were filming in reverse order, meaning that he would be back from Paris in time to shoot Episode 1, for which Wesley was obviously necessary because the episode would address his motherâs return to the Enterprise. An unnamed TNG producer told Wheaton that he needed to return in time for the filming of âEnsignsâ because it was a âWesley episodeâ in which he would have a crucial scene with Gates McFadden. Having pulled out of "Valmont" as a result, Wheaton discovered that his role in the âEnsignsâ script was minimal. The same producer then wrote Wesley out of the script almost entirely before filming began. Wheaton said years later, âThe message was very clear â we own you â and it was a move to sabotage my career.â This episodeâs resolution has always made me angry, but for years I thought this was my problem rather than the episodeâs. Ever since I first saw the episode as a kid, I thought it was grotesquely unfair that the colonists had to leave Tau Cygna Five, and I fully sympathized with Goshevenâs arguments about why they should have been able to stay. However, I also thought that I was wrong to feel this way. Enforcement of the treaty is necessary for the sake of interstellar harmony, and the Sheliak, however unlikeable, do have the legal right to the planet. However, L. I. Underhillâs essay about the episode on the Eruditorum Press website made me realize that I was right about the situation all along. Goshevenâs people are the only intelligent lifeforms ever to have existed on Tau Cygna Five. That makes them the planetâs native inhabitants, and it is every bit as wrong to remove them as it was for European settlers to displace the Indigenous peoples of the Americas. In Dataâs âreverse psychologyâ speech, he patronizingly says that the settlers will be dying âfor land and for honor.â Millions of people throughout human history have died for those very things. Would Data say that the Indigenous peoples of America should have willingly ceded their land and gone passively to whatever territory or reservation the landâs new masters would allow them? The Tau Cygna Five settlers would have been fully justified in allowing the Sheliak to kill them all â men, women, and children â rather than give up their planet, and the right thing for the Enterprise crew to do would have been to defy the Federation and Starfleet and fight to defend Tau Cygna Five from the Sheliak, even if it meant their own destruction. (Couldnât Snodgrass at least have let Gosheven stay on the planet to die?) Whereas the rewriting of âThe City on the Edge of Foreverâ left only two lines of dialogue from Ellisonâs script intact (âSince before your sun burned hot in space, before your race was bornâ and âTime has resumed its shapeâ), the 3rd Revised Final Draft script of âEnsignsâ (available on the Star Trek Minutiae website) includes entire scenes that are word-for-word identical to their equivalents in Snodgrassâ version. (Wesley still has a slightly larger role, helping with the attempt to modify the transporter, even in this version of the script; his removal from most of it must have happened extremely late.) Since other sections of the script are different, the final script must have seemed like an ugly, ungainly patchwork to Snodgrass, although of course the viewer of the finished episode is unaware of this. Mart McChesney (the Sheliak) previously played Armus in âSkin of Evil,â in a similar costume. Christopher Collins, who had played Captain Kargan in âA Matter of Honorâ and Captain Grebnedlog in âSamaritan Snareâ the previous season, provided the Sheliakâs voice. This reaction features one of Joshâs most impressive recognitions of an actor to date: Mark L. Taylor (Haritath) did indeed appear in "High School Musical 2," eighteen years after this episode. Unfortunately, the malicious minimization of Wesleyâs role in the episode also eliminated a memorable moment for OâBrien, which was identical in Snodgrassâ script and the 3rd Revised Final Draft. The transporter console blew a fuse after Wesley tinkered with it, causing OâBrien to say, âIf you *ever* touch my transporter again⊠Iâll kill you.â OâBrien has no dialogue in the completed episode.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-04-22 15:09:40 +0000 UTCOh, and regarding space battles, I agree with you when they serve as a replacement for good storytelling, but when they serve a legit purpose in the story and there are real consequences involved, I still get excited by classic Trek nautical style battles. Thankfully, classic Trek tends to use space battles very sparingly, making them all the more exciting when they do occur.
Lovok
2024-04-22 12:56:19 +0000 UTCEven by your standard there are other episodes this season I like more, but that doesn't take away anything from "Ensigns" -- indeed: really good, solid Star Trek.
Lovok
2024-04-22 12:51:00 +0000 UTCI found it odd in tone out of context. Geordi had no idea they were anywhere near resolving things with the sheliakâŠhe was riding the turbolift. And then leading with his hardy har har line about we can do it! Seems insensitive and out of characterâŠ.and then when picard tells him its all good but doesnât explain whyâŠgeordi spins around and is back in the turbo lift and leaving like meh whatever thenđ€
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:13:04 +0000 UTCWesley is in the episode though. He has a brief line and appears in 2 scenes
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:09:56 +0000 UTCHow is replacing someones voice, covering anything up
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:06:40 +0000 UTCI find these kind of episodes to honestly be the very best of star trek. No grandiose pew pew space battles or end of the universe stakes. Just perfect star trek story telling
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:03:58 +0000 UTCNo, itâs actually an entirely different actorâs voice. The physical actor asked to have his credit removed. The directors didnt like his voice so they brought in someone with more presence in their voice
Derek Orr
2024-04-22 06:02:35 +0000 UTCIs Gosheven ADR? I always thought he was just a terrible actor. His delivery, like a NPC voice actor.
Philbot
2024-04-22 04:38:18 +0000 UTCwell, almost completely written out
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-22 03:05:20 +0000 UTCIt is not impossible for a primary character to be completely ADR from start to finish For example. 1980 Flash Gordon. Starring Sam Jones he upset the director and he was vocally erased from the movie and replaced by and adr actor who goes unnamed.
Thicketdweller
2024-04-22 02:30:18 +0000 UTCThey did somewhat "fix" Troi's character by deciding to use her also as sort of a diplomatic resource, maybe a sociologist to interpret aliens, etc. They basically just stretch her job out to give her more to do.
Joe Concepts
2024-04-22 02:26:47 +0000 UTCWesley did appear in this episode time index 22;08 in the transporter room when Picard drops in and Wes saysâhe wants the impossibleâ. Geordi responds âthatâs the short definition of captain.â
Thicketdweller
2024-04-22 02:25:46 +0000 UTCIâm not disagreeing with your basic statement..dialogue gets switched and scripts âsalvagedâ all the time, (and Crusherâs involvement early this season isnât heavy by any means) but in this particular instance itâs Melindaâs original first draft..even the Sheliak are still named Hrathan at this stage.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-04-22 00:53:31 +0000 UTCThanks for putting this out on a Sunday. Was able for the first time to watch the show in my theater on a projector in 5.1. Really appreciating the remastering that way. Noticed Crusher's uniform was a more "medical" teal than outright blue. Really great lighting on the planet, especially when Data first arrived and in the shuttle. I think the next two episodes are even better, but maybe the first three consecutive great episodes of TNG to come.
Stephen Wright
2024-04-22 00:46:29 +0000 UTCThe intro. Today the graphics are crude but then it was impressive and the upgrade for S3 was noticeable.
James Baloun
2024-04-22 00:36:32 +0000 UTCGreat reaction!!! This isn't among the best of the season, but it's still a good, solid episode with several memorable scenes.
Lovok
2024-04-22 00:28:54 +0000 UTCAudio Volume Levels seemed to be better this time, but still a few parts where music would drown you out. Great stuff, keep em coming, you have a new Patreon. ^~^ (probably going for the Target Demographic when the trial ends.)
Triforce of Shadows
2024-04-21 23:58:34 +0000 UTCLoved the reaction. Especially the Picard heavy scenes. You guys thoroughly appreciate Picard in the same way we do. Love it.
Andrea R
2024-04-21 23:42:29 +0000 UTCIt may be on there but in McFaddenâs own words the first several episodes were literally written for Pulaski. Maybe they updated the scripts by changing the names.
Column Meanie
2024-04-21 23:19:05 +0000 UTCThis is it boys, pretty much what everyone was talking about when they said season 3 is when it gets good. Sure, the show will still throw you a stinker here and there but more often than not, this is the standard you get going forward. What would have been a standout episode for season 1 and 2 kind of ends up getting lost in the shuffle for this season. Not taking anything away from it, it's a great episode.
Mordock_Vapelord
2024-04-21 22:46:22 +0000 UTC:Joe+Piscopo_bah-dom-Bing!:
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:44:36 +0000 UTCTheir CRS Syndrome has gotten pretty comical!
Jovet
2024-04-21 22:43:01 +0000 UTCItâs possible thatâs true for some episodes, but Melinda Snodgrassâs original script is on her website, and Crusherâs name is there from the start.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-04-21 22:38:06 +0000 UTCFunny you guys mention "that's how you talk to Data, Pulaski" because it actually was Pulaski's dialogue. When the actress left, and Gates came back, they didn't change Pulaski's dialogue for a few of the first episodes of this season. They literally scratched out Pulaski and wrote in Crusher (and they wrote Crusher-specific scenes in "Evolution" addressing her absence and return)
Column Meanie
2024-04-21 22:03:57 +0000 UTCThe actor was fine with his performance. The producers hated his accent and requested he dub his performance with a neutralized American accent. He refused and so they dubbed him with another actor.
Column Meanie
2024-04-21 22:03:03 +0000 UTCDidn't care much for this episode when it aired. But I was around twenty then and it was too "talkative" for the taste of my younger self. I defenitely appriciate it more today.
Sam Langanke
2024-04-21 21:52:15 +0000 UTCI must say, some of my favorite parts at this time are you guys misspronouncing alien names :D "What were they called? Shelikans?"
Andreas Schmitt
2024-04-21 20:33:37 +0000 UTCMichael Piller addressed Beverly's return in 'Evolution', and there was no big deal at all about her being back in this episode. So they flipped them.
David Brown
2024-04-21 19:37:50 +0000 UTCFrom IMDB According to Paramount's public records, actor Grainger Hines (Gosheven) was unhappy with his performance, so he requested his name be removed from the credits. All of his lines were subsequently overdubbed by another actor. Conspiracy theorists, however, find several holes in this idea, and many fans believe it to be a cover-story for a secret incident which Paramount did not want publicized. (Also, i think the next week preview clip has his undubbed voice)
Mike Rogers
2024-04-21 19:36:43 +0000 UTCI believe that this was supposed to be the season opener and for some reason it was switched.
Mike Rogers
2024-04-21 19:24:45 +0000 UTCI've only watched this episode a couple of times. A great episode, one that is a great preview of good ones to come. Well written and directed. Two things: one, I didn't remember at all the scene where Picard and Troi beam over to the Sheliak ship..was a pleasant surprise for me. Two: I always thought that it was a lost opportunity for Data to..ah..well you know. The girl really had the hots for him.
Monty Crawford
2024-04-21 19:24:10 +0000 UTCDefinitely a better showing than Evolution, and yet still not one of S3's strong points. I'm always down for a Data episode however. He's still very early in his quest to become more human. I don't know if it's a "knowledge lost over the generations" thing, but even when the original colonists left, roughly during the TMP era, ships existed that could easily level such a settlement from orbit. Unless they have planetary shields and photon launchers, I never understood how they thought they could ever hold out. Since you mentioned Wesley not being in the episode, there's a story to that. Wheaton had been cast in a film between S1 and 2, and his commitments to filming that were set to overlap with the first week of S3 filming. However this episode was the first produced, not Evolution where he had a more significant role, so he didn't think it would be a problem. One of the producers convinced him that this was a Wesley centric episode that he couldn't be written out of and that it would advance the mother-son relationship. He cancelled his involvement in the movie, and when he showed up to the first week of production for S3, he found he'd been lied to and almost completely written out of this episode. He took the whole thing, understandable, as the producers essentially saying they owned him and discouraging him from advancing his career outside the show. He considered quitting the show for a while after that. As to Gosheven, apparently Grainger Hines sounded too much like John Wayne for the producers' liking, so his lines were all dubbed over. Hines requested his credit be removed from the episode. Seems like a silly production decision to me, but there it is. Solid episode.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-21 19:06:34 +0000 UTCGreat reaction! Makes me appreciate it even more!
Andrew Bassey
2024-04-21 18:53:42 +0000 UTCagreed
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-21 18:38:48 +0000 UTCYou guys should have laughed at the end when Geordi showed up and said "Captain, we can do it. We can modify the transporters! It'll take fifteen years, and a research team of a hundred..." Just about as funny as Picard hanging up on the Sheliak and making them wait.
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:21:14 +0000 UTCI realized after watching this episode again (and you guys said this was a court episode without the courtroom) that Melinda Snodgrass, a former lawyer, wrote it, so that all makes perfect sense.
Collin Freeman
2024-04-21 18:20:20 +0000 UTC42:20 Josh getting the misty eyes this time...
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:15:04 +0000 UTC37:30 I love how terrified Kentor looks during Data's demonstration.
Jovet
2024-04-21 18:10:27 +0000 UTCToday's video seemed fine! Didn't notice any problems with syncing or quality.
Jeremy S
2024-04-21 18:02:40 +0000 UTCGreat reaction! Thank you, gents.
Jacob
2024-04-21 17:54:43 +0000 UTC"Shellicans" makes me so happy.
badvertised
2024-04-21 17:35:38 +0000 UTCAppreciate it, thank you!
harrypothead42024
2024-04-21 17:32:39 +0000 UTCFun fact from Memory Alpha (This is not the entire poem): The title of this episode is from the poem "The Wants of Man" by John Quincy Adams. In the context of this poem, the term "ensign" means a flag or symbol, not the Starfleet rank. I want the seals of power and place, The ensigns of command, Charged by the people's unbought grace, To rule my native land. Nor crown nor sceptre would I ask, But from my country's will, By day, by night, to ply the task Her cup of bliss to fill. Yes, our sixth President John Quincy Adams. Even the long dead son of a Founding Father can still contribute to Star Trek.
KatWithAttitude
2024-04-21 17:18:15 +0000 UTCHappy Sunday!
SinocTheHodgeheg
2024-04-21 17:08:20 +0000 UTC
