Target Audience / FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E1

Star Trek The Next Generation was a syndicated show. There wasn't a "summer hiatus." Season two was shortened by the writer's strike and started very late - end of November or early December - depending on the market, but all other seasons had 26 episodes, one first performance and one repeat. (In my market, they aired TNG twice a week, repeating the new episode, before the next "new" one, so you had two chances to watch it.) There were no breaks. I can't say I recall exactly for season two, but I believe they aired a few episodes from season one for a third time. But that would have been the only time. And for the record, the last two episodes of season two aired in July of 1989 and the first of season three at the end of September. So when it said "next time" it truly as just the next week.

Stevtrek

2024-05-03 03:02:21 +0000 UTC

Fine episode... not much to say about it. But here is where I will add that I always thought that season two Dr. Pulaski was a more interesting character than season one Dr. Crusher. (Even if she is a rehash of the Bones character) We'll see what season three Dr. Crusher brings to the contest.

Stevtrek

2024-05-03 02:49:52 +0000 UTC

25:20 They actually still could have shown this episode out of order. easily. They briefly mention that Dr. Crusher was gone recently, but nothing said onscreen absolutely requires that this be her first episode back. That's why we DON'T see her arriving and hugging Wesley for the first time. The absence of stuff like that was intentional precisely because of what you guys said. The writers really never knew what order the shows were going to get to the viewers in.

Steve Boshear

2024-05-02 18:46:58 +0000 UTC

Take this for what it's worth, but I've been watching Star Trek and participating in Trek communities since I was a small child in the early 80's and this comment section is the very first time I've heard mention of any significant contingent disliking Dr. Crusher.

Steve Boshear

2024-05-02 17:23:44 +0000 UTC

The thing about Crusher returning being "spoiled" by the opening credits was that I don't think her return was even supposed to be a big thing from the producers' perspective. TV shows at the time were in the habit of actively glossing over cast changes. (See Bewitched, Roseanne, etc.) They wanted it to not be a big deal so that it didn't get in the way of people just tuning in and watching the dang show. They did not expect most viewers to be catching every episode every week, and binge watching wasn't a thing at all. It was in their best interest to make each episode FEEL like it had the same status quo as the others. Make a big deal about an actor being replaced and suddenly half the audience feels like staying current on Star Trek is too much work.

Steve Boshear

2024-05-02 17:11:42 +0000 UTC

👍👍👍

Jovet

2024-05-02 14:05:35 +0000 UTC

The thing about ST:TNG was even though contemporaneous fans generally rate seasons 1 and 2 lower than those that followed, they still tuned in every week so they could nerdily critique every aspect of it.

jeff hughes

2024-05-01 01:05:28 +0000 UTC

The worst that happened with DS9 was late in its run you would see fewer and fewer markets air it in primetime. While the show always generated profit for both parties, there were bigger hits during key hours that would deliver higher profit to both parties.

Mark Wood

2024-04-27 22:26:06 +0000 UTC

There was no issue whatsoever ever in getting stations to keep TNG hell or even DS9. As though their run they generally had better overall coverage than shows on ABC, NBC or CBS and certainly FOX. Viacom gave the program away. Syndicated station didn't have to shell out a dime for either TNG or DS9. Viacom directly sold the national ad time for the full fee. So it literally costs the affiliates nothing. The affiliates got to sell the local ad time and pocket that revenue without again having to spend a dime. Even with the lowest the ratings got for DS9, affiliates never didn't make a profit off of Trek. Now since Viacom was spending millions between 1.2 low end for TNG to 2.5 million an episode, they needed to get enough from national ad time to cover that expense. They never had a problem generating a profit on any season of TNG, or technically DS9 though that profit margin had declined greatly by DS9's end, it was also more costly than TNG (though a good chuck of that was also inflation). Traditionally even with syndication pre TNG, you paid a license fee based off of the size of your market to the studio providing the programming, and then used ad times to hopefully offset that license fee. Which is always a risk, because you never know in advance how a show will perform, and you pay your license agreement before a show airs, based on how you hope it will perform. Trek's syndication package guaranteed that every affiliate would not have to worry about losing money, as they spent no money to get the right to broadcast the show. As for staying on the air for two years on a network schedule, that would have likely been fine. Since Variety would on occasion provided market ratings as well as weekly national syndication ratings. You could see that in the markets were TNG aired during primetime that is where it typically had the largest local HH data. Now we also have a small amount of demo information from TNG's early years. And a bit more from its later. The Show always index high on income and male demos. So what you do is compare that to the Pocket Piece Ratings data that was provided to networks and ad buyers to look at the meat and potatoes of ratings data. Not total households, but the actual demographic data from those households. Now that wasn't released to the general public at the time. But comparing the demos that were reported sporadically for TNG during its run, see how much larger basic HH data was for the markets that aired it in primetime versus its national average. And then comparing that to the demo graphic data for the three networks during tis first two years. And TNG would have gotten a 3rd year and beyond. ITs strength was never its overall audience, it strength was in its income index, and male demos especially 18-34 and 18-49. Even during its low points it would have been above average in all three of those data points. And since primetime TV that isn't live sports in driven by a larger percentage of female viewers (on the film side men are the primary audience for movies for some reason). Ad buyers pay a significant premium to hit the male 18-34 and male 18-49 audience. Since they were a harder audience to hit (outside of live sports. And a solid income index just helps inflate those ad rates across the board. Interesting fact Voyager for one year had the highest income index of any show on network TV for that year, and its wasn't early in its run (it might have always done very solid in this metric, but Variety when it provided that data typically only listed top 5. And they didn't provide that for every year.

Mark Wood

2024-04-27 22:21:16 +0000 UTC

I never liked Crusher. Preferred the potential of Pulaski, but that was ruined by writing.

Michael Nemo

2024-04-22 16:14:58 +0000 UTC

I really dislike this seasons outfits, too thick and for some reason you can see all the seams it's SO odd they look so poorly designed with the seams the way they are. Don't despair the costumes get better in the following seasons!

Todd Pritchett

2024-04-22 04:08:24 +0000 UTC

Beverly Crusher's return was somewhat of a last minute change prior to the start of production of Season 3. During the incredibly short hiatus (remember: Shades of Grey aired in mid-July because of the stike) Diana Muldaur essentially approached the producers and let them know she would not be returning, and there was essentially no love lost with her departure. No animosity, but there was a general feeling that the character had not gelled (I fully place this on the fault of terrible writing- to shoe horn her into the mold of "a female Bones" was a great disservice to the character AND to the actor who played her, and while the character did certainly grow more throughout the Season 2, she still had those Bones attributes all the way to the season finale). For many years there was also a lot of rumors that Diana Muldaur did not get along with the cast, but this has been dismissed by cast members and Muldaur. Michael Dorn, Wil Wheaton, and most recently Patrick Stewart have all said very positive things about Muldaur and her contributions to the series. With her departure, and with the first SEVERAL episodes of Season 3 already written for Pulaski, it left the producers scrambling to find a solution. The producers reached out to McFadden to see if she would be interested in returning (since Maurice Hurley has left...and he was the main reason for her departure), but it took Patrick Stewart reaching out to Gates McFadden and begging her to come back. They reworked a few scripts, rearranged the shooting order of a couple of episodes, and they were off to the races.

Column Meanie

2024-04-21 21:46:18 +0000 UTC

"NO! You have to like the seasons in this order: [insert order] And each episode you have to like in this order: [insert order] I'm glad I could help you understand what is good and what is not. You're welcome." -The Internet lol Kinda sucks people were telling you what to expect. I'm totally fine listening to you guys come up with your own minds. People have to stop telling you what to expect and just let you discover them on your own, with us for the ride. So much more fun that way. Why can't the conversation with us and the reactors start after the episode or season, not before?

PIG

2024-04-20 10:12:46 +0000 UTC

makes 'em look my cleaner in my opinion.

Just Mav

2024-04-20 08:50:01 +0000 UTC

Uniforms: they took away the color piping on the black shoulder fabric.

Schnabley

2024-04-20 06:45:27 +0000 UTC

They could have had Gates respond to the bride after Ken Jenkins gets thrown around the bridge, lost opportunity!

Schnabley

2024-04-20 06:32:00 +0000 UTC

The surprises have to be spoiled sometime. If they put it in the opening credits and broadcast it like that, then it must be good enough.

Jovet

2024-04-20 02:03:02 +0000 UTC

@Steven Linden Yep. Don't forget Arbitron back in the day, too!

Jovet

2024-04-20 01:58:34 +0000 UTC

ST TNG is sooo bad at keeping 'surprise' moments quiet. Maybe you guys can't watch the opening credits either...lol

MrDeadstu

2024-04-20 01:26:16 +0000 UTC

@Target Audience The fact he was pretty-much okay and didn't have any marks or burns on him was really lame and really unrealistic.

Jovet

2024-04-19 19:11:00 +0000 UTC

@Anthony Bernacci Maybe. But it didn't work with me. Baseball is my favorite sport. Stubbs is one of my least-favorite guest characters. But, his blind determination and selfishness got him what he wanted. Same thing happens today.

Jovet

2024-04-19 18:34:51 +0000 UTC

My bad, I meant to say he took 12 electric damage

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-19 18:33:17 +0000 UTC

Also, Steve makes our backgrounds so I refer to him on anything regarding that

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-19 18:31:25 +0000 UTC

@Steven Linden Dictionaries is a whole other show. — Phil Donahue

Jovet

2024-04-19 18:24:26 +0000 UTC

@Anthony Bernacci @Shatner's Cigarette Obviously I don't believe it's a spoiler or I wouldn't have written it. What, exactly, does it spoil? Surely my comment has to be considered more vague than "the middle episodes are the best" or "you'll never be disappointed by a season premier again" or other such comments here. I listed no names, seasons, episode titles or numbers, or timelines—just a fact to highlight Paul's final point. To me, it's on the same level as a "There are 7 seasons of TNG" fact.

Jovet

2024-04-19 18:22:25 +0000 UTC

What was a much bigger deal than season premiers was "sweeps", the week or so during which the Nielsen ratings for a show were used to determine ad purchases. That was where they wanted to put the episodes they had the most confidence in.

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 18:10:19 +0000 UTC

Maybe it's just the fact that I started watching in season 3 so it's what I'm used to, but to me the show just looks SO much better visually right from the opening shot of this episode.

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 18:05:42 +0000 UTC

In fact, we've already seen Dr. Selar.

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 18:04:36 +0000 UTC

If you're going to be really pedantic, it should only be used for EXECUTION by electrical current, as it comes from "electrical" + "execution". Most dictionaries now just define it as "injury or death from electric shock", or words to the effect.

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 18:02:32 +0000 UTC

He’s got you there @Jovet. Jovet taught me early on to imagine we are in the same week of the 80s that the episode aired. Dont fuck with this Temporal Prime Directive. 😂

Shatner's Cigarette

2024-04-19 17:33:47 +0000 UTC

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about the baseball theme in this episode LMAO! It's more of an Easter egg than anything else, though. It's like putting a picture of 3D chess when you haven't seen a 3D chess episode yet.

Ricky

2024-04-19 17:31:30 +0000 UTC

Always imagine that this is the same week of the original airing in the 80s. We are “back in time” for these reactions. Dont even HINT at future spoilers. They chose the baseball due to the themes in THIS episode.🖖

Shatner's Cigarette

2024-04-19 17:26:02 +0000 UTC

Baseball is a theme in “evolution”. It has nothing to do with anything else we are not talking about.

Tim b

2024-04-19 17:07:17 +0000 UTC

You're only watching the episode teasers after the episode and during the discussion, yeah? Avoid these like the plague before episodes because they spoil many surprises.

JGoss

2024-04-19 16:12:11 +0000 UTC

So, uh, you guys have a baseball in your 10 forward backdrop.... Just wondering, do you know the significance of that? Just thought that was interesting to have that in there or if it was just part of the image that you picked for the backdrop.

Ricky

2024-04-19 15:13:32 +0000 UTC

“ hi my name is Bob Kelso, and I like whores.”

Just another Red Shirt

2024-04-19 15:05:54 +0000 UTC

I can understand the complaints about Stubbs, but if you ask me, what you guys are interpreting as a bad performance is to some degree intentional. Stubbs himself is always playing a role, so to speak - as Troi points out, his self-portrait is well practiced.

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 14:30:02 +0000 UTC

Uh... descendant?

Steven Linden

2024-04-19 14:27:23 +0000 UTC

She was a dancer and a poor actress who grew into the role and got better

Scarpad’s Domain

2024-04-19 14:26:40 +0000 UTC

I think the reason many fans think of Dr. Crusher as boring and bland is, ironically, related to one of the reasons Alex and Josh love her so much -- the subtlety of Gates McFadden's facial acting. Many of us grew up watching TNG on standard definition televisions, which made the nuances of McFadden's performance more difficult to appreciate. We always liked Dr. Crusher because she was a well-written, likeable character, but she was boring in comparison to Dr. Pulaski because, as with Patrick Stewart and Marina Sirtis, you could always tell even in standard definition that Diana Muldaur was ACTING. Watching Gates McFadden in high definition is like looking at a restored Renaissance painting that was formerly dirty and covered in varnish -- it's only now, in the Blu-ray era, that we can appreciate how great she was all along.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-04-19 14:21:11 +0000 UTC

Jovet, from Alex and Josh's point of view that may be a major, major spoiler. I really think you should delete it (although it may be too late, since it's been 12 hours).

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-04-19 14:13:55 +0000 UTC

One of the issues with Stubbs may have been that Michael Piller loved baseball so much himself that he thought Stubbs loving baseball would automatically make him sympathetic.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-04-19 14:12:10 +0000 UTC

Right. Rick Berman (who was the one who had told her she was fired in the first place, although it was Maurice Hurley's decision) made the first call, Patrick Stewart made the second call.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-04-19 14:10:56 +0000 UTC

I love Marina Sirtis -- she's a wonderful actress -- but I suppose she wouldn't have wanted to work with late-career Marlon Brando, either.

Anthony Bernacchi

2024-04-19 14:09:19 +0000 UTC

The "Theiss Titillation Theory" still applies, though. R.I.P. William Ware Theiss.

Jovet

2024-04-19 08:15:24 +0000 UTC

It's a pet peeve of mine, as it's a far-too-common misconception.

Jovet

2024-04-19 08:12:34 +0000 UTC

Thank you for pointing this out, it's been bugging me too! 👍 R.I.P. Winrich Kolbe

Jovet

2024-04-19 08:11:27 +0000 UTC

That was painful. I guess I'm too old for 12-year-old humor.

Jovet

2024-04-19 08:02:28 +0000 UTC

I don't know of this "Discovery" of which you speak.

Jovet

2024-04-19 07:53:11 +0000 UTC

This episode marks the entrance of costume designer Robert Blackman, who will go on to design uniforms for Star Trek for nearly 15 years.

J-Ro

2024-04-19 06:06:21 +0000 UTC

I learned something new today.

Greg Quinn

2024-04-19 06:01:59 +0000 UTC

Agreed; I remember being fascinated by this concept back when this first aired, and also with the binary stars. While I understand perhaps finding more enjoyment in the various character arcs throughout the show and agree those are a major reason to watch it, I've always found at least as much (if not more) enjoyment in the science fiction plots. After all, it is ostensibly a science fiction show, not a kitchen sink drama...but YMMV 🖖

Patrick47

2024-04-19 05:31:43 +0000 UTC

Yeah, I don't get their criticism of Jenkins or Stubbs. The character is supposed to unlikable and arrogant but with ample (if subtle) motivation established for why he is that way, and the actor portrays those nuances wonderfully. I also wonder if they caught the parallel the writers were drawing between Wesley and Stubbs, that Stubbs was basically what Wesley could become in 30 years if he continued his more obsessive tendencies.

Patrick47

2024-04-19 05:13:35 +0000 UTC

In interviews Diana Muldaur said she was returning to Star Trek as a favor to her friend Gene Roddenberry, who personally called her and asked her to return. Then rumors came out she was being paid more than Patrick Stewart. As you came imagine the cast resented her for multiple reasons. 1. She replaced one of their friends, Gates. 2. She got the job by being the boss’s friend. 3. She made more money than all of them because of a relationship with the boss. 4. She also refused to wear the normal one piece uniform so they made her a custom two piece one, this ticked off the cast because they all hated their uniforms too, but they were told to suck it up.

Rich Loga

2024-04-19 04:33:46 +0000 UTC

I really, really love the design of the TNG uniforms. They may look like pajamas to some, but they are hyper-futuristic. The piping on the shoulders was always ugly to me, but these newer uniforms look 10× better. Sublimely good!

Jovet

2024-04-19 03:06:02 +0000 UTC

18:20 Stubbs was not, unfortunately, electrocuted. Electrocution is DEATH by electric shock. He lived. (Just as drowning is death by suffocation in liquid.)

Jovet

2024-04-19 03:02:59 +0000 UTC

10:13 That doesn't bother me. Time passes between seasons, just as it passes between episodes. We don't see or need to see every "moment" on the ship. Pulaski left, Crusher came back. Personnel transfers happen regularly in the military.

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:54:56 +0000 UTC

Spoilers 😉

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:48:38 +0000 UTC

They don't watch the teasers or ANYTHING beforehand.

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:43:15 +0000 UTC

She says Hurley "fired" her because she complained about the way some of the female cast/crew had been treated by the production management.

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:42:32 +0000 UTC

...and even started directing episodes themselves!

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:41:52 +0000 UTC

For me, the worst TNG episodes are still to come.

Jovet

2024-04-19 02:40:52 +0000 UTC

Winrich Kolbe (German, pronounced vinrish kolb) is a pretty prolific trek director, and for a time dated one of the cast members on a later trek show

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-04-19 01:43:11 +0000 UTC

@Greg Quinn Yes! The actor did a fine job playing an insufferable asshole. He has the occasional funny quip, but he's mostly just an insufferable asshole.

Jovet

2024-04-19 01:35:28 +0000 UTC

Stubbs always reminds me of Dr. Daystrom from "The Ultimate Computer". That character also "peaked early" and spent most of his life afterwards trying to live up to his own reputation. At least Stubbs didn't become completely insane.

KatWithAttitude

2024-04-19 01:24:02 +0000 UTC

I know this one is pretty long, but it explains some about my feelings for reboots in general and about two rebooted shows/franchises I love in particular, and there is a sort of a connection to this episode. I've mentioned before that I'm also a Mystery Science Theater 3000 fan, and I have loved it since 1990 even through cast changes and network moves. I don't love every episode, but I don't love every ST episode, either. When MST3K moved from Comedy Central to The Sci Fi Channel in 1997 they were allegedly inspired by this episode and got their own billions of Nanites, and some became recurring characters. This is the host segment where they are introduced in the first Sci Fi Channel episode: https://youtu.be/cFMuqup_jos?si=DbRJAiX57SoYrg0J There's even a potential (but probably not) reference to the Pakleds in the scene. I have the audio only of the 178 (roughly 90 minutes each after the commercials were taken out for DVD release) Comedy Central/Sci Fi Channel episodes plus more ripped and loaded onto my MP3 player, and sometimes I listen to them at work. I've watched them enough where I don't need to see with my eyes to see them in my mind. I've considered doing the same thing with TOS and TNG but it took a long time to do the MST3K episodes, and it would take even longer to do all that ST. Maybe some day. There are tons of ST references throughout the first 10 seasons of MST3K, ranging from TOS to Voyager, including an episode from the Comedy Central years where the host segments are a pretty good parody of the TOS episode “Mirror, Mirror”. There could be more references in a Netflix reboot that happened a few years ago, but I wouldn't know. I gave most of the first Netflix season a shot and hated it because everything I loved in the first 10 seasons had been stripped out and it felt like a shell of the former show. I managed to get through the first 12 of the 14 episodes thinking it had to get better or at least be funny but it just didn't work for me so I gave up and purged it from my memory banks. It went one more short season on Netflix before it was canceled and then one crowd funded season later on and nothing in the last couple years. The reboot even temporarily affected how I felt about the earlier shows and I didn't watch or listen to any of it for quite a while. I eventually decided the MST3K reboot is in a mirror universe and doesn't exist in my little world. The bad feelings that experience gave me is a big reason why the rebooted Star Trek movies and timeline don't exist for me, either. I personally don't avoid spoilers so what I've heard and read about them was enough to turn me off completely. If anything about them intrigued me even a little bit I would have given them a shot, but nothing did. For me, “reimagined” is no imagination at all. Just because I'm in my 60s doesn't mean I don't like new and shiny things. I just don't like new and shiny things that whizz on the original.

KatWithAttitude

2024-04-19 00:55:25 +0000 UTC

well, maybe a couple times

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-04-19 00:48:22 +0000 UTC

Most of the criticism for seasons 1 and 2 came years after by newbie viewers. Trust yourselves.

Michael Metrick

2024-04-19 00:46:34 +0000 UTC

How can you not get hyped for "Staaaaaarrrrr Trek, TheNextGeneration"?

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-04-19 00:45:52 +0000 UTC

I gotta disagree about Ken Jenkins. If you want to say his part wasn't written well, that's one thing, but he wasn't "phoning it in." I don't see that at all.

tyranusfan

2024-04-19 00:44:52 +0000 UTC

Of course, without saying too much, there are other doctors on the Enterprise, but only the CMO is part of the main cast.

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-04-19 00:39:52 +0000 UTC

I liked this episode and I liked Stubbs!

Michael Metrick

2024-04-19 00:35:56 +0000 UTC

Yeah, if this had been on a network, like TOS, it likely would have had trouble staying on the air after the first two seasons.

tyranusfan

2024-04-19 00:30:59 +0000 UTC

Lots of TV heart-to-hearts take place in a bathroom.

tyranusfan

2024-04-19 00:28:16 +0000 UTC

You could kind of tell when Picard awkwardly leaned over next to Data I think in the scene where he inquired about communicating with the nanites

Timothy Nikiforovs

2024-04-19 00:17:52 +0000 UTC

https://youtu.be/P0uWn7dW3XQ?si=EKd1nqrr5FTlGtZV

Zack

2024-04-18 23:25:59 +0000 UTC

Stubbs was the ancestor of the great Dr Robert Kelso of the 21st century

Zack

2024-04-18 23:22:46 +0000 UTC

Speaking as someone that was going to conventions and talking to fans, Dr. Crusher was indeed missed.

Mike Rogers

2024-04-18 22:43:38 +0000 UTC

"See, Wes, if you hunker down and work hard just like me, then some day when you are old and lonely you, too, will be able to play whole seasons of Strat-o-matic Baseball in your head using players who lived and died 400 years ago." -- Dr. Stubbs

Timothy Hennon

2024-04-18 22:28:40 +0000 UTC

I just watched it myself recently, it was great. But it does have some... miiinorish spoilers for later TNG seasons.

Ian Westcott

2024-04-18 21:56:26 +0000 UTC

'Why doesn't Star Trek make better season openers...?' A question you will never ask again.

Andy Frankham-Allen

2024-04-18 21:56:20 +0000 UTC

I will say: only watch the teasers after the episode. I don't remember if you mentioned you watched it after but... TNG teasers spoil A LOT. Seriously, they're fun to watch afterwards, but they're not going to get you hyped, and they will ruin some of the surprises in episodes.

Ian Westcott

2024-04-18 21:55:01 +0000 UTC

They’re aware of this but it does have spoilers so will not watch for now

Silk

2024-04-18 20:40:07 +0000 UTC

See Wes dont be a square your whole life or you'll turn out like Dr Stubbs here

Narnman

2024-04-18 20:20:16 +0000 UTC

IIRC Crusher was not a part of season 2 due to one of the producers at the time. Not because of anything Gates McFadden did with the work she was given.

Timothy Keck

2024-04-18 20:19:31 +0000 UTC

Diana Muldaur was offered main cast status but didn’t want to commit to a regular series as she was still being offered other roles. So she preferred to be a special guest. The producers wanted a regular in the doctors role; Patrick Stewart lobbied both the producers and Gates McFadden until she agreed to come back. By season 3 the production team member that didn’t like Gates had gone. Season 3 is the point where the core cast had developed a close friendship and were acting more like a theatre group than a TV cast. Key to that was Patrick Stewart dropping his serious actor attitude to have fun with the others (instigated by Frakes and Sirtis). No spoilers, the acting quality from S3 from the cast is stellar as they all learned from each other and suggested changes to scenes to improve them.

Paul Rymer

2024-04-18 20:04:58 +0000 UTC

About the format - yes the uncut and spontaneous approach as an exclusive for Patrons makes sense. I assume it also might speed up the time between filming and uploading which is good for us.

Paul Rymer

2024-04-18 19:50:46 +0000 UTC

I personally thought the actor himself did fine with what he was given. But I agree they could have had the same overall plot elements and had him be a bit more sympathetic.

Greg Quinn

2024-04-18 19:48:18 +0000 UTC

That's my take...although there are a few episodes this season I personally feel are worse than this.

Greg Quinn

2024-04-18 19:47:13 +0000 UTC

Thats not my memories at all. Pre TNG airing, there was a lot of negative fan comments about the lack of any direct connection to TOS. Their was also a lot of negativity not eh lack of any real known actors on the show (LeVar and Will being the only two actors that had any real exposure, but in both cases LeVar's is primarily from one role, as was Wesley. Nothing to see a consistency of ability. When TNG started yes it was popular, but it also dropped rather quickly a good chunk of its audience and continued to decline overall through the end of tis 2nd season. And yes even with that decline TNG was a financial success, just not a massive hit. Now to also be fair there was still an excitement to having new Trek as many a fan was still desperate to have original weekly Trek for the first real time since the end of 69. So seeing weekly Trek was still a welcome treat, even with those that were really critical of the show (myself included). In comparison During later stages of Berman's Run or the Streaming period today. I wouldn't stick with a show just because I loved (Trek) if I thought the quality was the same level of was getting in seasons 1 and 2 (well really 2, as season 1 gave enough us a few episodes of absolutely real quality, giving us hope that more was to come, and in general the writing even of its style was getting better). The usenet forums on Trek weren't full of glowing praise. The SOS that tracked fan rankings of episodes as they aired were typically low. Professional reviews of the day (when some episodes would get them, weren't glowing). Those are all real time reflections of peoples interactions with the program. From viewer engagement (ie ratings) no those fans that posted opinions on the internet of the day, That wasn't in hindsight view that the first two seasons were weak. It was real time opinions that the shows were weak. Ratings for season three stabilized the decline in ratings from the first two season, and showed the start of average ratings growth (the general pattern for most shows is decline over the years, shows that have managed to grab an audience for whatever reasons are viewed as being more successfully contacting to their audience). That ratings change continues through the next three seasons, before it beings its decline. I keep ratings and short reviews myself of shows as they aired, which started as a college thing. And my ratings for those years hasn't changed much (plus or minus), over the decades .

Mark Wood

2024-04-18 19:31:21 +0000 UTC

In my opinion, starting at season 3 the overall quality of each episode is consistently better. The "bad" episodes feel less bad than 1 and 2 "bad" episodes. HOWEVER, I don't think the season gets the GREAT episodes until mid-season on. That's why everyone is voting for mid to later season 3 episodes to watch live. In my opinion.

Andrea R

2024-04-18 19:28:43 +0000 UTC

Great idea to watch the teaser and comment 👍

Andrea R

2024-04-18 19:25:04 +0000 UTC

This might be a spoiler but I think you're going to like this season a lot more than the last two and I think you're going to see why people piss on the first two seasons so heavily. They aren't really that bad, the last five are that good.

harrypothead42024

2024-04-18 19:24:36 +0000 UTC

nanites at the time were basically theoretical. Now a real field though, called nanobots.

Greg Quinn

2024-04-18 19:09:11 +0000 UTC

LOL wait till the rest of the season openers LOL.

Jason Biggs

2024-04-18 19:05:45 +0000 UTC

I think Stubbs would have been much more effective a character if he'd been played or written way more likable, I think he was supposed to be the 'brilliant asshole' type, but they didn't let him be brilliant. Instead we just got the asshole part. I mean they could have let him have a noble moment or contribute to solving the problem, or something.

Matthew Riley

2024-04-18 18:54:41 +0000 UTC

Diana is one of the only TNG cast members who didn’t feel like “one of the family” so to speak. The rest of the cast hasn’t really said anything negative about Diana (with the possible exception of Marina “no filter” Sirtis, who said she was “thrilled” when Gates returned as it was nice to work with an actress who didn’t “hide their lines all over the set”.. ouch)

Glenn Johnson Barnes

2024-04-18 18:48:39 +0000 UTC

Patrick Stewart had to call Gates McFadden to convince her to come back,she wasn’t sure she would be welcomed back

Mark

2024-04-18 18:48:03 +0000 UTC

I love how during A Matter of Honor, when Mendon wants to talk to Wesley in private, he essentially pulls him over to the door in front of the men's room :D

Andreas Schmitt

2024-04-18 18:46:09 +0000 UTC

It was a reasonably big deal in fandom, and in the sci-fi mags. I will say I don’t think Crusher was a big deal with fans until she was no longer there. Kind of a “don’t know what you’ve got ‘til it’s gone” situation.

Glenn Johnson Barnes

2024-04-18 18:44:22 +0000 UTC

Too bad. Imagine their shock seeing Beverly out of nowhere in the opener of the next episode if that was the premiere.

JGoss

2024-04-18 18:39:06 +0000 UTC

New director of photographer for season 3. The best change is that they fixed the bridge lighting and didn't have to resort to sticking black cardboard to the reflective panels anymore.

JGoss

2024-04-18 18:36:32 +0000 UTC

Did you guys notice that the show is shot a little brighter as well? Seasons 1 and 2 were a little darker.

Matthew Bailey

2024-04-18 18:34:51 +0000 UTC

Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) made a good point about Pulaski. She said there was plenty of room for two doctors on a ship of 1,000 people - one tending to do the away missions and another more of a research / complex case doctor. Opens up opportunity for tensions on arguing over the best course of treatment, someone to treat a severely injured doctor, and there have been loads of times when one doctor has been more or less stumped by an issue even in The Naked Now. It’s not like Pulaski had much screen time anyway.

Smear Campaign

2024-04-18 18:20:20 +0000 UTC

Even though you may not have liked his first episode, Michael Piller is basically responsible for the show taking off from now on. He's the head writer/show runner from now on, and will write some very important episodes, but also be in charge of picking stories and final editing and story direction from here on out. And it paid off. Maurice Hurley, the head writer/show runner of season 2 left. He will write the occasional story but Michael is the man in the big chair now.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-04-18 18:18:11 +0000 UTC

The real fun is noticing that some background extra do seem to go into that door at times.

Joe Concepts

2024-04-18 18:15:28 +0000 UTC

There’s one more smack bang in the middle of the ship on the big cut away schematic in engineering. (Frakes pointed to it in a behind the scenes clip as all the fans asked where the throne was).

Smear Campaign

2024-04-18 18:14:53 +0000 UTC

He was a jerk on that show, too, but it was a comedy and he was much more fun.

Joe Concepts

2024-04-18 18:13:29 +0000 UTC

In regards to Beverly: You can thank Gene Roddenberry. When Gates was fired, Gene made sure her character wasn't killed but written out in a way that made it possible for her to return. As soon as Maurice Hurley left the show, she was re-hired for season 3. I guess both doctors didn't have a good time during their first season. In Gates' first season she had a lot of issues (like Denise Crosby and others) with the writing. She felt like she had little to do, almost no good scenes and she had a major problem with supposedly raising a genius son but whenever he needed help he went to the men instead of his mom. Diana on the other hand did not enjoy her time during season 2 very much either. She had felt very much at home on the TOS set and loved the writing of her episodes. But she felt TNG had become too technological and was too busy dealing with gizmos and gadgets and lost the human element. The writer's strike probably didn't help, it made season 2 even more chaotic. The rest of the cast also just missed Gates and hated the fact that she was fired after season 1. That made it even harder for her to fully become a part of the family in season 2. So, a very difficult first season for both doctors. You'll see what happens from now on :)

Andreas Schmitt

2024-04-18 18:10:59 +0000 UTC

Yup, there was only a 2 month gap between Shades of Gray and Evolution, which is nothing these days. Usually it's 4 months, but the show had a late finish in season 2 due to the strikes. Then the show goes on hiatus for the holidays, and with re-runs, it feels like the show goes all year round.

JGoss

2024-04-18 18:08:39 +0000 UTC

Still a few more episodes to go for the finalized uniform. For the first 6-8 episodes of season 3, the uniforms were wool with odd-looking seams on the front of the tunic. The actors could barely move in them, so they were redesigned yet again. First with Patrick, and then the rest of the cast a couple episodes later.

JGoss

2024-04-18 18:01:40 +0000 UTC

Love your discussions, it's fun that you guys enjoy this favorite show so much like we do, also the longer unedited is great.

Szledje

2024-04-18 17:55:06 +0000 UTC

If you want to know more about the first couple of seasons watch Shatner's documentary called Chaos on the Bridge about the first seasons of TNG. I haven't seen it in years so I can't remember if there are spoilers beyond season 2. Maybe someone else can chime in on that but you will see the how and why that they got to keep going and how the quality seemed to get better on a more consistent basis starting with season 3.

Strife

2024-04-18 17:53:33 +0000 UTC

Exactly. This is the test of a real fan. Do you know where the bathroom is on the bridge lol. Also IIRC Picard has a bathroom opposite of where his replicator is. Perk of being Captain is not hitting the public restroom after Worf had gagh for lunch.

Strife

2024-04-18 17:49:15 +0000 UTC

Don't forget that back in the day, they didn't really make a big deal out of "season premieres". Usually, the most you got was an ad telling you the show is back after the summer. Very few season finales were made a big deal either. The first real one like that was the famous Dallas "Who Shot J.R.?" cliffhanger and resolution. Once we starting getting into the '90s shows started more and more to make some excited finales to keep you coming back.

Joe Concepts

2024-04-18 17:45:42 +0000 UTC

At the time seasons 1 and 2 were not badly received. Lots of negativity from TOS fans early on, but TNG became popular. I think over time as the later seasons had more hits than misses it became a consensus that 1 and 2 are not as good.

Paul Rymer

2024-04-18 17:44:56 +0000 UTC

They’ll still be in the YouTube version.

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-18 17:30:44 +0000 UTC

We’re working on it

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-18 17:29:40 +0000 UTC

The return of Dr. Crusher wasn't THAT big a deal back in the day. Today it's seen as a bigger deal in retrospect.

Darin Wagner

2024-04-18 17:27:09 +0000 UTC

So excited for you guys to watch the episode quality quickly ramp up to near perfection by mid season!

Benjamin Azure

2024-04-18 17:26:14 +0000 UTC

Anyone else finding the video quality a bit rough on this one?

Smear Campaign

2024-04-18 17:16:33 +0000 UTC

Love the teaser react at the top, but I just love the teaser in general. Kinda miss the Patron takes shown on screen!

JD Nevesytrof

2024-04-18 17:09:14 +0000 UTC

Thursdays are quite interesting now, with Discovery Season 5 and TA's TNG Season 3 coming out a few hours apart.

James Knight

2024-04-18 17:08:10 +0000 UTC

Dr. Crusher was out in season two because producer Maurice Hurley hated Gates McFadden. Hurley was gone for season three, and McFadden was immediately invited back. A few years later, Diana Muldaur was surprise-eliminted from LA Law, making two series in a row.

Mike Humbert

2024-04-18 16:52:02 +0000 UTC

There IS actually an AI that cuts out filler words :D A buddy of mine recently used it for a podcast recording we did :D And nanites are also in current development. They're hoping to use them in micro surgery and to kill cancer cells. :) Yet again one place where TNG was very ahead of its time. Also... smaller starts that suck off material from larger companion stars are absolutely a real thing.

Andreas Schmitt

2024-04-18 16:50:46 +0000 UTC

This episode more of a Gates McFadden return to the series and re-establishing her relationship with Wesley. The look of the show was obviously kicked up a bit and they definitely could have brought B Crusher in before ruining it in the credits.

Stephen Wright

2024-04-18 16:49:40 +0000 UTC

I mean the nanite idea was cool like we said, but Mr. Stubbs literally ruins any potential development by being unhinged unfortunately

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-18 16:12:21 +0000 UTC

I think its fair to say that, maybe not always, if the episode is "tech" or "space battle" related, it's not going to be as interesting to them as something that deals in character drama or exploring a more interpersonal conflict. Which is why... Certain much beloved episodes to come may not land as hard for the guys as some people are hoping they will, and other lesser appreciated ones may be their favorites. It all comes down to a matter of taste, methinks. I've always had a soft spot for this episode, though I do agree that if there is a weak link here it is Stubbs.

Steven Johnson

2024-04-18 16:05:54 +0000 UTC

They do have a bathroom! On the schematics for the bridge there's that door in the back to the left? That's the briefing room. So if you're standing in front of that door, facing it. Turn around. There will be another door on your right, which is always off camera. That's, apparently, a bathroom back there.

Steven Johnson

2024-04-18 16:04:08 +0000 UTC

I like Bev in theory.. she can feel kind of useless or misused. But I enjoy your guys enthusiasm for the character! She’s mostly there to be the bleeding heart while Picard is like “Not now Doctor.” I think in some ways Pulaski succeeded because she was up in everyone’s business wether they needed a doctor or not she was ready to be the Bones!

Philbot

2024-04-18 16:03:24 +0000 UTC

I think this is one of the fascinating things about watching your reactions. When I first watched this at the premiere, nothing like this story existed. There wasn't a mainstream nanite concept - at all. This was a blending on Von Neumann spacecraft and the microscopic level. Now, this concept doesn't seem as novel as it did when this first aired. But I really loved this whole idea and so the idea carried this episode for me in a way it clearly didn't for you.

Paul Sage

2024-04-18 15:59:59 +0000 UTC

Michael Piller would become to TNG what Gene Coon was for TOS.

Mark Chrisco

2024-04-18 15:52:03 +0000 UTC

No

Josh (Target Audience)

2024-04-18 15:47:15 +0000 UTC

This was actually shot as the second episode of the season but was chosen as the season opener.

Collin Freeman

2024-04-18 15:46:21 +0000 UTC

Did you guys ever watch "Scrubs"? Ken Jenkins played Dr Bob Kelso, the hospital administrator.

Regan

2024-04-18 15:46:05 +0000 UTC

https://i.imgur.com/tR9bYmQ.png "We Saw You From Across the Bar and Really Dig Your Vibe"

Steven Johnson

2024-04-18 15:45:39 +0000 UTC

The new uniforms are a gabardine two-piece, with a seperate top and pants. The old uniforms were a lycra-spandex jumpsuit. The old ones had a simple round crew-neck collar and coloured piping on the black shoulder yoke. The new ones have a raised neckline similar to a Nehru-collar and the piping has moved from the shoulders to the neck.

Regan

2024-04-18 15:44:52 +0000 UTC

You hit the nail on the head, Josh: the chemistry among the cast was so key and it really jelled over the course of the first 2 to 3 seasons. That was a huge part as to why this show became so popular as time went on.

Collin Freeman

2024-04-18 15:38:14 +0000 UTC

Hahahahaha! Nice.

Collin Freeman

2024-04-18 15:33:57 +0000 UTC

The new uniforms make it easier to go to the bathroom. Now, if only they had fuckin bathrooms. 😱

Juan Tutrífor

2024-04-18 15:32:17 +0000 UTC

If you ever watched "Honey, I Shrunk The Kids", the girl Wesley walks into Ten Forward with was the daughter in that film

Ee'char

2024-04-18 15:26:01 +0000 UTC

Syndication covers a multitude of sins. The audience generally built up as the show continued and writing got better. Also, the fairly new Fox network was craving any programming their stations could get their hands on to fill time slots throughout the week, and so cities that had Fox stations at the time were typically where Star Trek: TNG could be found. And so, there was definite interest in keeping the show going. It aired on other stations in smaller markets.

Collin Freeman

2024-04-18 15:25:05 +0000 UTC

FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S3E1 - Evolution

Comments

Fine episode... not much to say about it. But here is where I will add that I always thought that season two Dr. Pulaski was a more interesting character than season one Dr. Crusher. (Even if she is a rehash of the Bones character) We'll see what season three Dr. Crusher brings to the contest.

Take this for what it's worth, but I've been watching Star Trek and participating in Trek communities since I was a small child in the early 80's and this comment section is the very first time I've heard mention of any significant contingent disliking Dr. Crusher.

👍👍👍

The thing about ST:TNG was even though contemporaneous fans generally rate seasons 1 and 2 lower than those that followed, they still tuned in every week so they could nerdily critique every aspect of it.

The worst that happened with DS9 was late in its run you would see fewer and fewer markets air it in primetime. While the show always generated profit for both parties, there were bigger hits during key hours that would deliver higher profit to both parties.

I never liked Crusher. Preferred the potential of Pulaski, but that was ruined by writing.

I really dislike this seasons outfits, too thick and for some reason you can see all the seams it's SO odd they look so poorly designed with the seams the way they are. Don't despair the costumes get better in the following seasons!

makes 'em look my cleaner in my opinion.

Uniforms: they took away the color piping on the black shoulder fabric.

They could have had Gates respond to the bride after Ken Jenkins gets thrown around the bridge, lost opportunity!

The surprises have to be spoiled sometime. If they put it in the opening credits and broadcast it like that, then it must be good enough.

@Steven Linden Yep. Don't forget Arbitron back in the day, too!

ST TNG is sooo bad at keeping 'surprise' moments quiet. Maybe you guys can't watch the opening credits either...lol

@Target Audience The fact he was pretty-much okay and didn't have any marks or burns on him was really lame and really unrealistic.

@Anthony Bernacci Maybe. But it didn't work with me. Baseball is my favorite sport. Stubbs is one of my least-favorite guest characters. But, his blind determination and selfishness got him what he wanted. Same thing happens today.

My bad, I meant to say he took 12 electric damage

Also, Steve makes our backgrounds so I refer to him on anything regarding that

@Steven Linden Dictionaries is a whole other show. — Phil Donahue

What was a much bigger deal than season premiers was "sweeps", the week or so during which the Nielsen ratings for a show were used to determine ad purchases. That was where they wanted to put the episodes they had the most confidence in.

Maybe it's just the fact that I started watching in season 3 so it's what I'm used to, but to me the show just looks SO much better visually right from the opening shot of this episode.

In fact, we've already seen Dr. Selar.

If you're going to be really pedantic, it should only be used for EXECUTION by electrical current, as it comes from "electrical" + "execution". Most dictionaries now just define it as "injury or death from electric shock", or words to the effect.

He’s got you there @Jovet. Jovet taught me early on to imagine we are in the same week of the 80s that the episode aired. Dont fuck with this Temporal Prime Directive. 😂

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about the baseball theme in this episode LMAO! It's more of an Easter egg than anything else, though. It's like putting a picture of 3D chess when you haven't seen a 3D chess episode yet.

Always imagine that this is the same week of the original airing in the 80s. We are “back in time” for these reactions. Dont even HINT at future spoilers. They chose the baseball due to the themes in THIS episode.🖖

Baseball is a theme in “evolution”. It has nothing to do with anything else we are not talking about.

You're only watching the episode teasers after the episode and during the discussion, yeah? Avoid these like the plague before episodes because they spoil many surprises.

So, uh, you guys have a baseball in your 10 forward backdrop.... Just wondering, do you know the significance of that? Just thought that was interesting to have that in there or if it was just part of the image that you picked for the backdrop.

“ hi my name is Bob Kelso, and I like whores.”

I can understand the complaints about Stubbs, but if you ask me, what you guys are interpreting as a bad performance is to some degree intentional. Stubbs himself is always playing a role, so to speak - as Troi points out, his self-portrait is well practiced.

Uh... descendant?

She was a dancer and a poor actress who grew into the role and got better

Jovet, from Alex and Josh's point of view that may be a major, major spoiler. I really think you should delete it (although it may be too late, since it's been 12 hours).

One of the issues with Stubbs may have been that Michael Piller loved baseball so much himself that he thought Stubbs loving baseball would automatically make him sympathetic.

Right. Rick Berman (who was the one who had told her she was fired in the first place, although it was Maurice Hurley's decision) made the first call, Patrick Stewart made the second call.

I love Marina Sirtis -- she's a wonderful actress -- but I suppose she wouldn't have wanted to work with late-career Marlon Brando, either.

The "Theiss Titillation Theory" still applies, though. R.I.P. William Ware Theiss.

It's a pet peeve of mine, as it's a far-too-common misconception.

Thank you for pointing this out, it's been bugging me too! 👍 R.I.P. Winrich Kolbe

That was painful. I guess I'm too old for 12-year-old humor.

I don't know of this "Discovery" of which you speak.

This episode marks the entrance of costume designer Robert Blackman, who will go on to design uniforms for Star Trek for nearly 15 years.

I learned something new today.

I really, really love the design of the TNG uniforms. They may look like pajamas to some, but they are hyper-futuristic. The piping on the shoulders was always ugly to me, but these newer uniforms look 10× better. Sublimely good!

18:20 Stubbs was not, unfortunately, electrocuted. Electrocution is DEATH by electric shock. He lived. (Just as drowning is death by suffocation in liquid.)

10:13 That doesn't bother me. Time passes between seasons, just as it passes between episodes. We don't see or need to see every "moment" on the ship. Pulaski left, Crusher came back. Personnel transfers happen regularly in the military.

Spoilers 😉

They don't watch the teasers or ANYTHING beforehand.

She says Hurley "fired" her because she complained about the way some of the female cast/crew had been treated by the production management.

...and even started directing episodes themselves!

For me, the worst TNG episodes are still to come.

Winrich Kolbe (German, pronounced vinrish kolb) is a pretty prolific trek director, and for a time dated one of the cast members on a later trek show

@Greg Quinn Yes! The actor did a fine job playing an insufferable asshole. He has the occasional funny quip, but he's mostly just an insufferable asshole.

Stubbs always reminds me of Dr. Daystrom from "The Ultimate Computer". That character also "peaked early" and spent most of his life afterwards trying to live up to his own reputation. At least Stubbs didn't become completely insane.

well, maybe a couple times

Most of the criticism for seasons 1 and 2 came years after by newbie viewers. Trust yourselves.

How can you not get hyped for "Staaaaaarrrrr Trek, TheNextGeneration"?

I gotta disagree about Ken Jenkins. If you want to say his part wasn't written well, that's one thing, but he wasn't "phoning it in." I don't see that at all.

Of course, without saying too much, there are other doctors on the Enterprise, but only the CMO is part of the main cast.

I liked this episode and I liked Stubbs!

Yeah, if this had been on a network, like TOS, it likely would have had trouble staying on the air after the first two seasons.

Lots of TV heart-to-hearts take place in a bathroom.

You could kind of tell when Picard awkwardly leaned over next to Data I think in the scene where he inquired about communicating with the nanites

https://youtu.be/P0uWn7dW3XQ?si=EKd1nqrr5FTlGtZV

Stubbs was the ancestor of the great Dr Robert Kelso of the 21st century

Speaking as someone that was going to conventions and talking to fans, Dr. Crusher was indeed missed.

"See, Wes, if you hunker down and work hard just like me, then some day when you are old and lonely you, too, will be able to play whole seasons of Strat-o-matic Baseball in your head using players who lived and died 400 years ago." -- Dr. Stubbs

I just watched it myself recently, it was great. But it does have some... miiinorish spoilers for later TNG seasons.

'Why doesn't Star Trek make better season openers...?' A question you will never ask again.

I will say: only watch the teasers after the episode. I don't remember if you mentioned you watched it after but... TNG teasers spoil A LOT. Seriously, they're fun to watch afterwards, but they're not going to get you hyped, and they will ruin some of the surprises in episodes.

They’re aware of this but it does have spoilers so will not watch for now

See Wes dont be a square your whole life or you'll turn out like Dr Stubbs here

IIRC Crusher was not a part of season 2 due to one of the producers at the time. Not because of anything Gates McFadden did with the work she was given.

About the format - yes the uncut and spontaneous approach as an exclusive for Patrons makes sense. I assume it also might speed up the time between filming and uploading which is good for us.

I personally thought the actor himself did fine with what he was given. But I agree they could have had the same overall plot elements and had him be a bit more sympathetic.

That's my take...although there are a few episodes this season I personally feel are worse than this.

Great idea to watch the teaser and comment 👍

This might be a spoiler but I think you're going to like this season a lot more than the last two and I think you're going to see why people piss on the first two seasons so heavily. They aren't really that bad, the last five are that good.