UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S2E14 - The Icarus Factor
Added 2024-03-01 15:00:18 +0000 UTC
Comments
I wouldn't call this an amazing episode or anything, but I think a lot of people can relate to a troubled relationship with a parent, myself included. And it's good to get some development for Riker and build up some backstory. BTW Riker is 30 here(Frakes 37), and Kirk was 32 when he got his first command(Picard 28 IIRC). As to Kyle saying "I hung in for 13 years", I assume he meant 13 years AFTER his wife died, which would have been when Riker was 2 years old. One thing that bugged me was Wesley when he said "and I didn't have a father long enough to know him". It's just the way he said it, with a smirk on his face, like it was a joke or something. Not a great moment for him. Love Data in this one as well. He's so eager to console Worf and defend Geordi's competence/ego as an engineer. The guy is like a golden retriever. You gotta love him. Worf's Rite of Ascension ceremony is I think the first scene to really establish that Klingons have a pretty pronounced masochistic streak. There was a TNG edit on youtube called a Klingon Christmas or something like that, where worf is being tortured by the pain sticks while he recounts a "klingonized" version of a Christmas carol. Absolutely hilarious. As for the anbo-jyutsu thing, the name of the sport translates as "staff fighting in the dark", which is straight to the point. Yeah, it's kind of ridiculous, enough to be the most memorable part of this episode(and the mats around the ring kind of remind me of the Galactic Empire emblem). It served it's purpose as a vehicle for Riker and his dad starting to reconcile, but I don't need more of it. Mediocre episode IMO, but fairly important to Riker's character. Unfortunately it starts to form a pattern of Riker turning down command opportunities. First the Drake and now the Aires. Of course the show must go on, but it does make him seem less than decisive unfortunately.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-14 08:34:30 +0000 UTCGreat episode of two B stories really side by side with excellent character development for worf and riker. Nothing to complain about there.
Incredible Jon
2024-03-10 22:46:39 +0000 UTCYou have made me realise this episode is better than what I remembered. Thank you. Amazing how you can watch the same episode 30 years later and have a different viewpoint. I thought you were gonna hate this one lol glad to be wrong!
Andrew Bassey
2024-03-10 15:33:55 +0000 UTCYou are right. I meant to say less episodic.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-08 12:08:36 +0000 UTCTrue story! HARDCORE Trekkie in the late 90s
Ee'char
2024-03-08 09:18:01 +0000 UTCIf you guys love Worf this much now , I’m dying to see you react to Picard season 3
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 05:01:34 +0000 UTCIts not at all a ridiculous idea. It’s ridiculous to think things would be that similar in 4 centuries and that we haven’t moved beyond a class system in a post scarcity utopian economy
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 05:00:17 +0000 UTCIts also just a rank for lots of other people on the ship. Chief petty officer
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:58:45 +0000 UTCBlows my mind that they dont know scuttlebutt or facsimile lol
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:55:19 +0000 UTCHow on earth was TOS less episodic than TNG? There where flat out zero season long story arcs etc.
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:54:37 +0000 UTCNever heard that before
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:52:18 +0000 UTCBecause this is where the begin to frame him as a NCO type
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:51:39 +0000 UTCHe is only a LT JG. There is no hard and fast rules about any particular position requiring a minimum rank
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:51:12 +0000 UTCYikes. Hard disagree on the better actor
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:49:09 +0000 UTCUgh he would have been so boring
Derek Orr
2024-03-08 04:48:18 +0000 UTCRike! Er ers! Beating each other up!
Philbot
2024-03-04 00:05:29 +0000 UTCRiker’s dad was one of the front runners to play Picard. They liked him because he was more Kirkish.
Philbot
2024-03-04 00:03:35 +0000 UTCSir.
Mark
2024-03-03 09:23:08 +0000 UTCLove that you feel what we all feel. It’s about the characters 🖖❤️
Jon1701
2024-03-02 22:00:58 +0000 UTCO'Brien is the man ✊
Matthew
2024-03-02 21:58:48 +0000 UTCWith all due respect, BEGONE!
Evan Guthrie
2024-03-02 21:40:27 +0000 UTCNot so fast! Are you forgetting Mr. Montgomery, who was also distinguished member of the Enterprise crew? I'm not even making that up. Some fans joke his first name is Scott, just to make it even more confusing.
Steven Johnson
2024-03-02 21:01:44 +0000 UTCTwo points I forgot to mention: people have accused Riker of hypocrisy due to his comments to Klag in "A Matter of Honor" upon learning he is estranged from his father (dialogue which, admittedly, was probably written before this episode was planned). However, Riker has very specific and valid reasons for hating his father. He would likely honor and respect a father who had survived being a POW, as Klag's father did. Troi's comments about "human males" -- "In adulthood, fathers continue to regard their sons as children... and sons continue to chafe against what they perceive as their fathers' expectations of them" -- are hilarious because they are a perfect, albeit gender-flipped, description of Troi's relationship with her mother.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-03-02 15:02:45 +0000 UTCBecause he is a chief, an enlisted rank. The lieutenant pips are wrong.
Sam Langanke
2024-03-02 08:35:53 +0000 UTCAnd before it was a bucket, it was a cask (“butt”) of water with a hole (“scuttle”) cut in it for dipping.
James H
2024-03-02 04:32:06 +0000 UTCYou are getting ahead of the show. At this point they were still adhering to Gene Roddenberry's ridiculous idea that everyone in Starfleet is an officer and there are no enlisted personnel. He thought this would be a natural evolution from all of NASA's astronauts being officers. So at this point, O'Brien is only called "chief" because he is the transporter chief.
Regan
2024-03-02 01:54:55 +0000 UTCBeyond everything else this episode showed how much better of an actress Diana Muldaur was than Gates McFadden. It wasn’t her fault how the character was written and by the end of this season it’s a shame she got caught up in show politics
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-03-02 01:28:04 +0000 UTCI think Yar was only a Lt JG as well when she was security chief.
Regan
2024-03-02 00:42:52 +0000 UTCHe is the transporter chief. His rank is a bit problematic from a continuity point of view. In the pilot episode he was referrred to as an ensign. Now he appears to be a Lieutenant. It won't be settled until later.
Regan
2024-03-02 00:39:20 +0000 UTCHistorically, the "scuttlebutt" was a bucket of fresh water with a ladle that was kept at the bottom of the mast for sailors to get a drink. So sailors referring to rumours as scuttlebutt is actually the same as office workers referring to talk around the water cooler.
Regan
2024-03-02 00:36:19 +0000 UTCAlways, After all we’re all learning something new every day
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 23:40:40 +0000 UTCBut it is true that the target audience is avoiding all spoilers. It is likely impossible. They can avoid them all, but even looking at the cast or the episode titles is not in their plan. Which makes it important to watch what you say on this channel
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 23:34:45 +0000 UTCStarbase Montgomery... no doubt named after Montgomery Scott (Scotty)
Mike Rogers
2024-03-01 23:19:09 +0000 UTCAlso, I've only just noticed that Worf is wearing pips for Lieutenant Junior Grade, despite being Security Chief. When Geordi became Chief Engineer, he became a full Lieutenant
Ee'char
2024-03-01 23:13:17 +0000 UTCWhy did Wesley call O'Brien "chief", when he's wearing Lieutenant's pips? Why not Lieutenant?
Ee'char
2024-03-01 23:08:17 +0000 UTCI don't know if you already knew, or if it's been said already, but Betazoids all have BLACK irises. Just in case you thought Deanna's eyes were a bit... off
Ee'char
2024-03-01 22:57:42 +0000 UTCRiker's Dad = Villain in LETHAL WEAPON 1
StonyD
2024-03-01 21:26:39 +0000 UTCI immediately choked from your "Your next assignment is...Beyond Belief..." LMFAO!! Nice. Why is that so damn funny?
StonyD
2024-03-01 21:24:16 +0000 UTCIf this had really been Riker's last appearance as a regular on the show, back in 1989, we would likely have known well in advance. First, characters were rarely written off for purely dramatic reasons. There would have been articles in newspapers and magazines about how the producers were "retooling" the show because certain dynamics weren't working, or that Jonathan Frakes had left for another series or couldn't reach a satisfactory contract negotiation result. And the promos for the episode would also make it clear if it was really Riker's last episode. There were almost never any real surprises when it cams to major cast changes back then.
Aramis Calcutt
2024-03-01 20:39:09 +0000 UTCAh, yes. Burke Devlin. Thanks for the reminder.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-01 20:16:45 +0000 UTCHe was an original cast member of 1960’s Dark Shadows..something which will come up again.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-03-01 20:13:48 +0000 UTCStar Trek TNG was certainly less episodic than TOS or other earlier shows. One of the reasons for that was people could actually watch episodes later whenever they wanted and even keep them thanks to VHS recorders. Prior to the 80's, that technology was not common and so networks programmed shows with the mindset of "you see it, or you miss it" and wanted people to be able to come in on any given episode and not feel left out because they didn't know what was going on in previous episodes.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-01 20:04:22 +0000 UTCMitchell Ryan played Kyle Ryker. He is another one of those journeymen actors that appeared in dozens of TV shows and films. I especially liked him in 2 Clint Eastwood movies: Magnum Force and High Plains Drifter. Typically I like his work, but no so much in this role.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-01 19:21:31 +0000 UTCJust FYI, "scuttlebutt" is a Navy term for "rumor mill" or "gossip"
Andreas Schmitt
2024-03-01 19:20:30 +0000 UTCNow you've given me an ear worm.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-01 19:15:24 +0000 UTCThere were ever hardly any true heroes. It's all an illusion.
Collin Freeman
2024-03-01 19:14:32 +0000 UTCI think I saw two reactions to that movie, and in both they thought the character's name is Cobb, too. O'Brien's rank would be Chief Petty Officer in our Navy.
Joe Concepts
2024-03-01 18:53:38 +0000 UTCI will say this one wasn't quite as bad as I remember. BUT I think it's the image of them in those stupid plastic outfits are the lasting image of the episode. And based on your reactions, you obviously get it.
Joe Concepts
2024-03-01 18:36:09 +0000 UTCIn Greek mythology, Icarus was the son of the inventor Daedalus. The father and son escaped from King Minos, the tyrant of Crete, by flying away over the ocean using wings Daedalus had constructed from feathers and wax. Daedalus warned his son not to fly too high, or the Sun would melt the wax, and not to fly too low, “so that the waves may not weigh down your wings.” But the beauty and glory of the Sun overwhelmed Icarus; he flew too high, the wax melted, and he plummeted to his death in the sea. People always forget one aspect of this story: Daedalus’ warning against flying too low. In this episode, Kyle Riker’s desire for his son to accept command of the Aries is the equivalent of this warning, but Will Riker has the self-confidence not to follow his father’s advice. The universal judgement of Star Trek fandom is that this episode features an enjoyable B story (Worf’s Rite of Ascension) alongside a cliched and pointless A story (the Rikers’ father-son conflict). Fans indeed regard the episode as unmissable for the Worf storyline alone. Alex will be thrilled by the fact that Chief O’Brien plays a prominent role in both stories, and that his characterization becomes deeper than ever before, with the first hints that he has a colorful and adventurous past. It is hard to believe that O’Brien was still an unnamed character, billed as “Transporter Chief,” only nine episodes ago (in “Loud as a Whisper”). Given that the Enterprise visits Starbase Montgomery for engineering consultations, I have often wondered whether Starfleet named the facility for Montgomery Scott, using his first name rather than his (much more common) surname. At this point (the mention of the Tholians in this episode notwithstanding), TNG’s writers and producers were extremely wary of including direct references to TOS, but this one may have slipped under the radar, deliberately or even subconsciously. It is noteworthy that Picard refers to Kyle Riker as “a civilian advisor” in an era of the franchise over which Gene Roddenberry had control. Roddenberry normally strongly objected to the use of the word “civilian” in Star Trek because it implied that Starfleet was a military organization, which, contrary to all appearances, Roddenberry insisted it was not. Part of a discussion among the Regula One scientists was deleted from Wrath of Khan prior to release because Carol Marcus used the word “civilian” (although the line reappeared in the Director’s Edition). Mitchell Ryan (Kyle Riker), who passed away in 2022, was one of the leading candidates for the role of Jean-Luc Picard in 1987. In addition to "Liar Liar," he is best known for his roles in "Dark Shadows" and "Dharma & Greg" and as the villain of the first "Lethal Weapon" movie. The character’s first name may be a reference to the fact that in an early story outline for the TNG pilot by D. C. Fontana, in which the Enterprise had already been in service for some time, Kyle Summers was “William Ryker”’s predecessor as the Enterprise first officer. In the script and closed captions for this episode, the name of Riker’s prospective command is spelled “Ares” – as Alex mentioned, the name of the Greek god of war. In future episodes which refer to the ship (in none of which it has a major role), the spelling changes to “Aries” (the constellation of the Ram). Although Riker’s possible departure is not the reason for Worf’s bad mood, Worf’s state of mind does lead him to imply something he otherwise might not have said so openly: that Riker is someone he would feel honored to die alongside in battle (hence his request to join Riker on the Aries’ dangerous mission). I suspect the reason Dr. Pulaski’s ex-husbands have all remained on good terms with her is in the hope of making love with her for old times’ sake if they meet up again. I also think Kyle must have deduced that Will and Troi had been lovers from Troi’s statement just after meeting him that “I’ve felt certain things”: there was probably a family resemblance between the father and son’s emotional responses on seeing an attractive woman like Troi, and Kyle realized that Troi picked up on this. The math concerning Riker’s past implies that his mother died when he was two (the two missing years Alex and Josh wondered about) and that Kyle raised him for the next thirteen years and abandoned him (or, at best, let him leave home without further contact) when he was fifteen. The implications of the statement, “I hung in there for thirteen years. If that wasn’t enough, then that’s just too bad,” make Kyle an utterly despicable person (which also damages Pulaski as a character), and there is a strong argument to be made that Riker forgives him too easily at the end of the episode. This episode makes it easy to remember how old Riker is at any point in his run on TNG: in Season 2, fifteen years have passed since he was fifteen, so he is 29 in Season 1 and 30 in Season 2. (Jonathan Frakes was 36, six years older than Riker, when he filmed this episode.) John Tesh, then the co-host of the American TV program "Entertainment Tonight" and a long-time Trekkie, plays one of the holographic Klingons. [SPOILER REDACTED] The Blu-ray closed captions misspell the name of the implements the holographic Klingons use on Worf, which the script calls “painstiks.” Kyle Riker’s illegal move in the anbo-jyutsu match appears to be striking Will’s knee with his staff. The 2nd Revised Final Draft script does not specify what the move is, probably to allow the stunt coordinators to work it out.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-03-01 17:25:08 +0000 UTCWell please excuse our ignorance of this in our upcoming Crimson Tide reaction
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-03-01 16:24:06 +0000 UTCIn navy terms C.O.B. Or (chief of the boat) is the longest serving serving enlisted man without commission a title of respect.
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 15:48:11 +0000 UTC38:32 There are the laughs I was waiting for!!!
Jovet
2024-03-01 15:45:07 +0000 UTCWas I the only one humming the Flash Gordon theme song during the Rikers fight.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-01 15:43:24 +0000 UTCDon’t pay the child support and visit once every 5 years describes my father accurately.
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 15:38:57 +0000 UTCJust look back at TOS. Ugly suits are 75% of the game
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 15:33:26 +0000 UTCWith all due respect, BE GONE!, sir.
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 15:27:47 +0000 UTCI know her too, but we don’t do that
Thicketdweller
2024-03-01 15:22:55 +0000 UTCThere's no more heroes left in the world.
Stephen Wright
2024-03-01 15:15:21 +0000 UTCHmm does it involve a Sun?
AzoriusMage
2024-03-01 15:01:47 +0000 UTC
