FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E11 - Contagion
Added 2024-02-22 20:32:40 +0000 UTC
Comments
I've thought so as well, especially with both eps dealing with a long dead alien race of great power.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-11 00:41:22 +0000 UTCI always thought this episode was very similar to the last outpost. Just Romulans instead of Ferengi , and the cause of the malfunctions is different.
Philbot
2024-02-26 07:42:12 +0000 UTCExactly. But just like in our time, the actual DESIGNERS of the computer did take this into account and made this an option. Let's also not forget that Geordi is mainly a warp field and propulsion engineer. Software Engineering and Computer hardware design is probably not his main field. But once he thought about how Data functions, it clicked for him.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-24 18:09:38 +0000 UTCHehe, my software engineering professor told me about this stuff. He used to program at a time where punch cards were still a thing. So he did a few software "patches" himself ;) They looked like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-24 18:03:51 +0000 UTCIt was one of mine as well. Had the entire run right off the spinner up to around #80 when I quit buying comics and went to college. Idiot me sold my entire comic book collection in the early 1980's for a couple of grand. I had several thousand books, all from the 60's and 70's mostly Marvel and just about every title published in that time period. I generally priced what they would be worth now a couple of years ago and just want to cry.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-24 18:02:21 +0000 UTCI caught that myself.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-24 17:55:21 +0000 UTC2001 Space Odyssey also had tablets and "glass cockpits" thin screens which was really way ahead of it's time (1968) but no touchscreens.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-24 17:54:43 +0000 UTCI'll be damned. I'm in my 60's and didn't know that.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-24 17:50:44 +0000 UTCDefenders was my favorite.
Ken R
2024-02-24 03:02:27 +0000 UTCAs a huge fan of his Man-Thing run, I would totally agree.
Nick Sauer
2024-02-24 02:39:38 +0000 UTCI bought my first computer in 1985 (PC clone) and I remember my dad giving me shit for it. Like the why should I waste my money on one of those kind of thing.
Nick Sauer
2024-02-24 02:38:42 +0000 UTCThat was exactly how I interpreted the episode as well. In the time of TNG computerization is so completely a part of everyday life that the thought of total shutdown and restart is something that pretty much no one would ever think of doing.
Nick Sauer
2024-02-24 02:33:44 +0000 UTCThe amount our guys here predict is actually hilarious, and they don't even know yet how much they've predicted ;)
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-23 23:31:01 +0000 UTCI'm not familiar with that, but it's a good idea!
Jovet
2024-02-23 22:26:00 +0000 UTCYep. It has to get from Engineering in the back of the ship, across, and then up the neck to get to the bridge
StonyD
2024-02-23 16:12:47 +0000 UTC“Ignore comments like that, most people don't even even mean it like that...” My original comment wasn't intended to be critical. I just find it a fascinating contrast in how I watch things versus how they do. Whether particular viewing habits are "good" or "bad" is pretty subjective because we are all different people and we consume our entertainment in different ways, with different goals and focuses. Streaming and actively reacting to what they're watching is focus like any other. Sometimes it does strike me that one or both seem to be overthinking things. But, as I stated above, because they watch this differently than how it would ever occur to me to do, they bring up some interesting points which I really enjoy analyzing. In this one, the idea that Data was acting out of character on the planet hadn't occurred to me. But it's a good point! Alex predicted Picard appearing on the Romulan ship before it happened. I cheered! This is why I am here! And, even if they hate my favorite episode or love my most-loathed one, this is fun!
Jovet
2024-02-23 13:55:56 +0000 UTCits all good to me it really sticks out as nonsensical
Narnman
2024-02-23 12:03:39 +0000 UTCI can't remember when it is but at some point in another episode there's mention of subspace buoys where logs are transmitted to, so that they can be retrieved if a ship goes missing or is away for so long they need a means to transmit back to Starfleet. I don't think that is a spoiler as it's not a plot point, just something mentioned almost in passing.
Paul Rymer
2024-02-23 09:11:39 +0000 UTC"I will say though it’s becoming discouraging to feel like there’s nothing we can say to convince people that we love this show without gushing over every single episode." Ignore comments like that, most people don't even even mean it like that, we all just happen to be a bit more blunt online compared to how we'd act in person around others and then there's the added problem that written text doesn't transport tone, sarcasm etc., so a mild criticism or even a joke can come across much harsher than intended. For what it's worth I love a good rant, so please don't stop being honest, if you don't like something just say it, you're in good company, Star Trek fans are the first ones to rip the franchise apart, we will argue amongst each other which parts of the franchise are the bad ones but it's all in good fun.
Phillip Grischa
2024-02-23 09:05:11 +0000 UTCFYI, the lights in the turbolift going sideways (fast in this case) is nothing new; turbolifts go up, down, and sideways throughout the ship. The speed merely indicated how fast it was moving (not that it was spinning), causing the g-force that pinned Geordi to the walls. Keep watching the lights in future episodes and you'll them going sideways again.
Andy Frankham-Allen
2024-02-23 08:54:12 +0000 UTCYour comment re: character moments was true, and when people talk about “the third season is when the show really clicks” a lot of it is about the character moments and scenes are more prevalent. If I’m being honest I find more than a few third season stories to be kind of clunkers, but I still love the episode because of the way the characters are written and react to the situation..and the dialogue is so much more natural than some of the awkward first and second season exposition.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-23 07:38:03 +0000 UTCNarnman, I missed your comment at that time. You are a much more attentive viewer than I am.
Numinous2019
2024-02-23 07:37:11 +0000 UTCSteve Gerber was one of the best Marvel writers ever.
Ken R
2024-02-23 07:13:41 +0000 UTCSame here. Last thing I wanted to do is be discouraging. Quite the opposite actually. I think you sometimes worry too much about what the audience thinks or how to create the best content. You make the best content when you stop worrying about that. I watch you because you guys are you, not because create content. You ARE the content
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-23 06:30:59 +0000 UTCJust a note of appreciation for the background work that you've been adding in the last few episodes. Nice to see Iconia and that beautiful warbird out the window. A little detail that's absolutely not required, but definitely welcome.
Avaria
2024-02-23 06:19:04 +0000 UTCDiscouragement is the last thing I was going for, so apologies. It is sincerely coming from a place of this being my favorite channel on yt, as I've told you guys before. I agree on the long comments not being ideal, but for now thanks for hearing and replying and yes let's revisit later, if you're down for it
James Bottas
2024-02-23 01:05:12 +0000 UTCI watched this episode a couple of weeks ago when I binge watched the whole second season. And you know, I’m damned if I remember a single thing about it.
Rich Cirivilleri
2024-02-23 00:36:55 +0000 UTCThere’s stuff you are all saying that I understand and I would love to discuss, but I don’t think really long comments back and forth is necessarily the best way to do it. I will say though it’s becoming discouraging to feel like there’s nothing we can say to convince people that we love this show without gushing over every single episode. We have spent months mostly praising the first season and a half, which apparently isn’t even good according to many people, yet we are told we aren’t enjoying it enough. If someone were to watch our reaction & discussion on The Measure of a Man and come away thinking we didn’t love it, then honestly our channel is probably not for them. Which is fine if that’s the case, but is very confusing to me. We’ll revisit this in our season 2 discussion probably, so keep these things in mind when we ask for questions at that time.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-23 00:23:42 +0000 UTCYep.
KatWithAttitude
2024-02-22 23:38:56 +0000 UTCJust feedback from multiple patrons. Do with it what you will. No hate. Huge respect for you guys and the countless hours of enjoyment from the journey so far. And I get it, knowing that you are going to be recording a discussion video is applying a pressure that wouldn't be there otherwise... basically I'm just saying don't have a worse time than you would normally, for our sake. Maybe you wouldn't even be doing the channel then lol..... but I'm just saying I hope TNG hasn't already "lost your trust" causing you to approach every episode needing to be "won back" or "re-convinced" that the series is quality
James Bottas
2024-02-22 23:37:40 +0000 UTCYou mean this one? ;) https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/worlds-first-computer-bug/
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 23:33:31 +0000 UTCI think I read somewhere that the original "computer bug" was a real moth that caused problems.
KatWithAttitude
2024-02-22 23:31:45 +0000 UTCWhile I agree with you there and it doesn't bother me AS much as these guys, I will point out that you seem to have gotten a lot more critical and pointed out flaws in writing, acting etc since you started TNG. Admittedly your discussions are a bit longer format, but you're also doing it more during the episode. You also have started to talk more over the episode than you did in early TOS. So I will point out that you've started to do more of these things since you've become more of a 'thing' on youtube and started worrying more about the content making than about just watching the show. Now I believe you that you enjoy TNG no less than you enjoyed TOS, but from an outsider perspective I'll say that... if you're new to the channel it really doesn't look like you're enjoying it a lot of times. And that has the potential to turn away new viewers. I'm not saying turn into the typical reaction channel that loves everything. Feel free to criticize bad episodes. We all know they exists. But especially when you take great episodes like measure of a man and spend most of your discussion on how it could have been written differently, that DOES come across like you didn't actually enjoy it all that much. And I think you sometimes even notice this, because you've recently started to appologize in the middle of the discussion and felt it necessary to point out "don't missunderstand us guys, we loved the episode". So I can understand some points of view here. But that's just a short bit of feedback. You need to do what you feel is right and what feels most natural to you.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 23:18:40 +0000 UTCYes! Enough said. Take your chief engineer's word for it
James Bottas
2024-02-22 23:15:33 +0000 UTC@Target Audience That's just quackers!
Jovet
2024-02-22 23:10:22 +0000 UTCWell correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming you weren’t making content out of your first time watching the show. I don’t think critically looking at each episode or exploring other possibilities with the premise takes away from enjoying the show. Obviously it’s different than just watching the show purely for entertainment, but we can’t really have our cake and eat it too if you get me.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-22 23:09:48 +0000 UTCI totally get that while discussing a show you're gonna come across nitpicks.. but I don't want this to start feeling like we're going into the episodes with the main goal of spitting out a Rotten Tomato score at the end.. I'm more interested in the ideas and themes of the episode being discussed, not how I would've rewritten such and such scene
James Bottas
2024-02-22 23:08:02 +0000 UTCIndeed. My family got their first home computer back then, but it took until the 90s before we got our first PC.
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:58:55 +0000 UTCI think my favorite character moment in this episode was when LaForge came flying onto the bridge and immediately yelled for them to destroy the probe. Two Seasons in and Picard immediately trusts Geordi without question on the spot. That is mutual respect.
StonyD
2024-02-22 22:58:04 +0000 UTCYeah I meant home computers that viewers would be familiar with. I should’ve clarified.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-22 22:57:02 +0000 UTCI own Howard the Duck on Blu-ray
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-22 22:55:44 +0000 UTCThe Neutral Zone was shown as a 2-dimensional line in TOS but obviously in space it would be 3 dimensional. It has perplexed what that would look like if it were real.
Collin Freeman
2024-02-22 22:53:46 +0000 UTCBeen there, done that! I think some of my phone bills were $400+. Oops. That 300 baud modem was torture, though!
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:48:23 +0000 UTCWhen Picard's door doesn't open? It might be a couple seconds with no line from Picard... but that's a highlight moment of the episode. That's when you get that liiiittle rush or chill. That's the snowball in the instant gravity sends it down the hill..
James Bottas
2024-02-22 22:45:45 +0000 UTC@Andreas Schmitt Seen it—yes. Care to remember it—no! LOL!
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:45:18 +0000 UTCYou worded that a lot better than I did! Part of me doesn't want them poking the holes to ruin the experience, but I have also found some of their hole-poking interesting to think about.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:44:47 +0000 UTCCool I mentioned this mistake in the Conspiracy episode comments section at the time
Narnman
2024-02-22 22:42:29 +0000 UTCAh the good old days. When downloaded porn was so pixelated you could barely tell it's a girl, the download took 4 hours for a single image and you had to explain to mom where that 300 bucks phone bill came from :D
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:41:28 +0000 UTCI mean, the part of the scene was, what, 3 seconds? Bawk, bawk!
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:36:46 +0000 UTCCommon, that movie is SO trash you HAVE to have seen it once :D
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:36:44 +0000 UTCI concur. I've commented essentially the same before. Guys, enjoy the show for what it IS, not what it ISN'T. It's self sabotage to go into this looking for holes to poke. You'll end up like you did in the opening minutes of this discussion video, lamenting how un-life altering TNG has been so far
James Bottas
2024-02-22 22:35:59 +0000 UTC*groan*
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:35:42 +0000 UTC12:20 Computers were already definitely a thing. The first mainframe computer was created in the mid-40s. IBM ran away with the market share by generalizing their design in the 50s and 60s. In the 60s and 70s, IBM started riding high on that market share. IBM's personal computer appeared in the early 80s despite common belief that average people had no use for one. The clones quickly followed. For some perspective, Microsoft Windows 1.0 was released in 1986. But, Windows did not start to become particularly popular until the early 90s. The first computer virus was made in 1971, but the first PC virus took 10 more years.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:31:18 +0000 UTCNo, not really. I mean, if you talk during movies/shows then yes lol
James Bottas
2024-02-22 22:28:52 +0000 UTC22:00 You're right... the Romulans generally would not volunteer a solution like that.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:24:51 +0000 UTC16:10 That's an interesting point. It never struck me that Data was acting out of character, but he was. I guess I didn't find Data's behavior tooo odd because how often does one get to explore 200000 year old technology? I imagine a caveman might act a bit out of sorts when confronted with technology like a tricorder, too.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:19:54 +0000 UTCEasy thing to miss, though.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:16:14 +0000 UTCIta becoming much less common even today. Most people never turn off their computers or phones. At best they're set to standby. But a complete shutdown is rare even today compared to a decade ago. Always-running is a real IT term and concept that was pretty innovative not so long ago
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:15:03 +0000 UTCThey completely missed it, talking. It's the Stargate chicken man all over again
James Bottas
2024-02-22 22:14:43 +0000 UTC12:10 No, the all the logs were transmitted from the Yamato to the Enterprise while the Enterprise was en route. The dialogue during the fancy-cam-work-on-the-bridge at the start talks about that.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:14:17 +0000 UTC11:32 There was a scene earlier where Picard stepped out of his Ready Room and the door hesitated. That was the first hint something is going awry.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:11:02 +0000 UTCComputers were a thing long before the 80s (I mean the Apollo missions run on a computer, you can go look at it still). But you're right in terms of commonly available home computers or.. personal computers, I.e. PC. Those started to appear along with the first home consoles around this time. At least more commonly. The first generation of consoles had already existed 1972 to 1983. The first Gameboy came out in 89. Tng was faar ahead of its time with handheld tablets, laptops and touchscreens, not to mention flat thin displays in general. Especially touchscreens in general use or tablets were still decades away
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:06:04 +0000 UTC6:30 Yes, that's the same ship from back then. Good catch!
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:05:56 +0000 UTCAbout the turn off and on again thing. My head canon take is that they tend not to do that anymore, either because it’s not generally needed or because the idea of turning it off completely makes it a dangerous prospect
Silk
2024-02-22 22:04:41 +0000 UTCPlease tell me you know Howard the duck the movie. Because if not... that HAS to be your next audience cut...
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 22:04:32 +0000 UTCYour opening comments highlight an interesting contrast. When I watched this show for the first time, I didn't laden myself with expectations to fit my satisfaction nor reflect on what they should have done with the show versus what we got. I like some episodes more than others, but to me, it is what it is. It would never occur to me to say "they should have done this instead" because it's already on the film and the producers wouldn't listen to me anyways.
Jovet
2024-02-22 22:03:28 +0000 UTCI like this one..any chance to see more of the Romulans. And of course the always incredible Carolyn Seymour 🤩
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-22 22:00:20 +0000 UTCComputer Viruses were already known back then. You are waaay too young to realize this but the word Bug is no accident. Computers used to be so big that actual real living bugs could cause issues :D and the word Patch literally meant Patch. Programs used to be on cards encoded in holes stamped into them. Sometimes a hole was an error so you literally.. patched it 😀
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-22 21:48:37 +0000 UTCNo spoilers in this comment. I watched the Red Letter Media video about mistakes in TNG. There is one so blatant that I'm ashamed to say I never spotted it. It's Season 1. Riker: "Ahead Warp 7, Mr. La Forge." Geordi: "Aye, Sir. Full impulse."
Numinous2019
2024-02-22 21:14:53 +0000 UTC
