FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E8 - Matter of Honor
Added 2024-02-09 15:05:01 +0000 UTC
Comments
@Juan Tutrifor "Nice crew. Comfortable ship." — Worf, probably
Jovet
2024-07-08 23:42:29 +0000 UTCholographic phasers. Problem solved
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-07-08 22:28:41 +0000 UTCPicard & Worf are ride or die. Riker & Worf are just bros. Idk if Worf even likes the rest of the crew.
Juan Tutrífor
2024-02-26 03:57:58 +0000 UTCTNG did away with that??? ummmm....
Derek Orr
2024-02-15 19:08:03 +0000 UTCRiker and worf Friends….hmm
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-02-11 00:53:23 +0000 UTCThey said they were in the phaser training range
Scarpad’s Domain
2024-02-11 00:43:42 +0000 UTCThis isn't the only time we see him in Trek. If I gave any more info than that about his short role later on It would be EXTREME spoiler territory. I recommend you IMDB search it and then watch the clip if you never noticed Brian in that role. I will try to remember to point him out to the guys in a few years
Strife
2024-02-10 17:24:52 +0000 UTCI've always assumed that the Federation have done most of the hard lifting when it comes to keeping relations with the Klingons on track.
Regan
2024-02-10 16:06:55 +0000 UTCYes!! The great Brian Thompson!
StonyD
2024-02-10 14:36:45 +0000 UTCR.I.P. Christopher Collins 1949–1994
Jovet
2024-02-10 12:02:13 +0000 UTCI accept your head canon.
John M.
2024-02-10 11:54:02 +0000 UTCThis is definitely one of the best episodes of S2. I think you guys have mentioned before that you've seen X-Files so I don't think this is a spoiler, but fun fact is the actor who plays Klag in this episode is the same one who plays the recurring shapeshifting Alien Bounty Hunter in that show. He's a great character actor who's been in a lot of stuff.
Michael Mannisto
2024-02-10 10:45:49 +0000 UTCYes. I think the production team blew it on this one. Perhaps the only reason he/they was in a Star Fleet uniform at all was so Wesley's line would make sense. But the whole situation is weird. I suppose if Kosinski gets handed a uniform, they're not that judicious in who they hand them out to after all. (Contrary to numerous character statements otherwise.)
Jovet
2024-02-10 10:11:02 +0000 UTCI was about to say: Or Beverly! But then ... yeah.
DataDroid
2024-02-10 07:24:09 +0000 UTCYou have been wrestling as Federation. I think it is time you switch sides and embrace your Klingon Warrior side.. That Bird of Prey is the Chef Kiss...
Badger
2024-02-10 05:13:35 +0000 UTCBecause of that, it wasn't until this watch that I realized Mendon was an exchange from a BENZITE ship and not Starfleet, thus clearing up 20 years of confusion over Meldock being the first Benzite in Starfleet, yet this guy apparently having graduated already.
Nolan
2024-02-10 03:42:57 +0000 UTCIt's certainly believable for the Klingons to be paranoid. It's not believable for a Klingon–Federation treaty to survive that paranoia for long. It also reduces the plausibility of the treaty's birth to begin with.
Jovet
2024-02-10 02:50:57 +0000 UTCI 'get' how profound TOS was, but I generally don't care for the show. I can admire Gene's vision of a hopeful future for humanity while being appalled at its nagging, childish propensity for fisticuffs (and overacting). TOS wanted to be a soap opera in space without the soap with an ounce of heart and intellectually vapid soapboxing. TNG largely did away with all that, which I really appreciate. Ironically, the most fisticuffs the TNG crew gets into has been when Q is around and sets them up for it.
Jovet
2024-02-10 02:48:08 +0000 UTCGlad you loved this episode. This episode cemented even more for me the fact that this show had found its footing and was going to be both different (than TOS) and good. Frakes really impresses me with his performance in this episode. One thing I enjoyed about TNG more than TOS was the more ensemble cast where everyone gets more of a chance to shine as opposed to it always being about the big 3 (and occasionally Scotty).
Collin Freeman
2024-02-10 02:32:30 +0000 UTCIt's a nice thing about TNG, what a great ensemble it is and all the friendships on display.
Kristina Weber
2024-02-10 02:18:43 +0000 UTCCould be wrong but I think you guys missed that the bacteria was discovered and brought to Picard's attention only when it was eating into the Enterprise. The scans Picard ordered were scans of the Enterprise's infection. There was a superb shot looking out from the back of the saucer down onto the top of the hull between the nacelles which I think happened when you were looking away.
Smear Campaign
2024-02-10 01:45:08 +0000 UTCI've always thought that this was Gene wanting to explore the issues of immigration and our capacity to overcome incompatibilities via cultural assimilation and integration. I know Gene didn't write the script, but the scene with Riker in the klingon mess hall embodied his original Star Trek vision of humanity. It was almost like an ancient Greek fable playing out in front of us, and the bit where he says until now I never knew how to eat Gagh and takes a mouth full is reminiscent of Guinan's interactions with the crew that we've seen up to now. Unfortunately, the Captain embodied the spectacular failures of 20th century immigration and how the smouldering embers of past wars can burst into flames if a handful of men f*** it up.
Smear Campaign
2024-02-10 01:29:38 +0000 UTCPicard and Riker's friendship or camaraderie is on display, too.
Jovet
2024-02-10 01:21:55 +0000 UTCOr LaForge! Of course, Troi could have foiled the whole plot by sensing the nearby angry Klingons...
Jovet
2024-02-10 01:19:10 +0000 UTCHe did an outstanding job! Deserving of the Emmy for Best Alien Gross Cuisine Design!
Jovet
2024-02-10 01:18:40 +0000 UTCBecause Captain Riker is still Q? (LOL!) [Picard surrendered to Q pretty fast too in S1E1; Q tried making Riker a Q in S1E10]
Jovet
2024-02-10 01:16:21 +0000 UTCI imagine repeatedly shooting the walls of the holodeck with phasers would damage them over time.
Jovet
2024-02-10 01:13:14 +0000 UTCThe original line was supposed to be "Michael Westmore couldn't be bothered trying to put this face on a new actor" but they changed it on the day of filming.
Regan
2024-02-10 00:55:10 +0000 UTCThe Klingons have... trust issues. Don't forget, they've been betrayed by allies before.
Regan
2024-02-10 00:51:47 +0000 UTCPerhaps the range is needed frequently enough that they wouldn't want all the holodeck time being taken up with people doing their phaser training.
Regan
2024-02-10 00:45:55 +0000 UTCIt's noteworthy: They loved this episode so much, they didn't even notice that Troi wasn't there at all.
StonyD
2024-02-10 00:45:13 +0000 UTCFrom Memory Alpha: According to prop master Alan Sims, the gagh was actually long brown noodles, while the rokeg blood pie was turnips in pumpkin pies, dyed red. (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion (2nd ed., p. 75)) He used chicken feet as pipius claw, animal organs as heart of targ, and other things such as fish, eyes, squid, and octopus. Most of the things Sims bought at the Asian market.
KatWithAttitude
2024-02-09 23:40:16 +0000 UTCAll I'll say is, it's a looong wait til next episode...
James Bottas
2024-02-09 23:15:54 +0000 UTCThats one thing I love with the juxtaposition (great word) of the two ships. The USS Enterprise is an exploration ship capable in war while the IKS Pagh is a war ship capable of exploration.
A Surprisingly Moist Fart
2024-02-09 22:23:10 +0000 UTCDid you miss he iconic "One or both?" line or wasn't it that outstanding for you? You didn't mention it whether in the reaction nor the discussion.
Sam Langanke
2024-02-09 22:14:44 +0000 UTCI think it's still pretty believable and works because, after all, a Starfleet officer has never served on a klingon ship before. This is a unique, completely out of the norm circumstance. So nothing has popped off yet, but as Josh said the peace is on thin ice. Further, maybe there has been some conflicts between other ships but Starfleet and the klingons have been able to preserve the treaty with some fast talking and/or cover ups
James Bottas
2024-02-09 21:31:02 +0000 UTCAlex, very good point that sometimes it's nice to have opening hooks where nothing's gone wrong and in fact something positive is being looked forward to
James Bottas
2024-02-09 20:44:11 +0000 UTCLoved the reaction :) You're really getting to some amazing episodes now :)
Andreas Schmitt
2024-02-09 20:08:52 +0000 UTCThe thing about season two is that there are a few mediocre episodes. They’re either phenomenal or clunkers.
Turtleboy
2024-02-09 19:22:05 +0000 UTCA missed opportunity to see Riker in a Klingon uniform!
DataDroid
2024-02-09 19:20:36 +0000 UTCThis is such a great episode. Without spoilers it really establishes a lot of the Klingon lore.
Turtleboy
2024-02-09 19:00:18 +0000 UTCNot every episode, but sometimes
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-09 18:42:27 +0000 UTCI haven't made a list of the whole series before, but my guess is I'd have it just a smidge higher, somewhere in the 30s.
John M.
2024-02-09 18:41:16 +0000 UTCLove the Bird of Prey out the windows! Please tell me you plan to continue putting something out there related to the episode!
The Game Show Reviewer
2024-02-09 18:36:25 +0000 UTCWhen he says, "They are in conflict!" that's just pure Starscream.
John M.
2024-02-09 18:35:42 +0000 UTCIt does prompt the question of why you need it if you have a holodeck. Best I don't think about it too hard.
John M.
2024-02-09 18:34:56 +0000 UTCAnd the original Mr. Burns, eventually replaced by Harry Shearer. It’s almost impossible to tell the difference I think maybe Shearer was just doing a Latta impression.?
Philbot
2024-02-09 18:08:27 +0000 UTCPicard vs. Riker! Picard channels his season 1 self and instantly surrenders.
Jeff Cornell
2024-02-09 17:49:43 +0000 UTCI like Worf and Riker's friendship too! There are some great episodes showcasing it. Very layered!
Kristina Weber
2024-02-09 17:21:32 +0000 UTCMendon did say he was part of the same… erm… family type unit, so that’s why he looks similar
Silk
2024-02-09 17:15:17 +0000 UTC21:05 TNG is not structured that way. Picard is not the lead character. The ship is the lead character. The bridge crew just tags along for the LOLs.
Jovet
2024-02-09 16:47:46 +0000 UTCFor the series night court Spiner’s family “The Wheeler’s” were supposed to be a one shot but the delivery and characterization Spiner brought to the character caused “night court” to bring the wheelers back several times that season and had plans to include them as regulars but at the last minute he left for TNG
Thicketdweller
2024-02-09 16:44:24 +0000 UTC"WOKE GARBAGE!!!"
Steven Johnson
2024-02-09 16:41:52 +0000 UTC15:55 That is my only real problem with the episode. If the Klingon–Federation alliance were truly that fragile, in jeopardy by one paranoid captain, it wouldn't last a year. Maybe not even a month. It's just not logical to have Kargan behave in that manner. But the rest of it was pretty well done.
Jovet
2024-02-09 16:41:43 +0000 UTCTo indulge your enjoyment of Data/Brent spiner This is a clip of Spiner before TNG. This is from night court the year before TNG https://youtu.be/bjWxNiA_ciU?si=eA2UO4HEX3vstrhr
Thicketdweller
2024-02-09 16:39:32 +0000 UTCFun fact: Captain Kargan was played by Christopher Collins (also known as Chris Latta)... the original voice of both Cobra Commander on GI JOE: A Real American Hero and Starscream on The Transformers (both Hasbro/Marvel Productions/Sunbow cartoons of the 1980s).
Darin Wagner
2024-02-09 16:32:59 +0000 UTCLoving the Bird of Prey in the window. Good touch.
Ca$hWednesday
2024-02-09 16:32:36 +0000 UTC5:25 On this topic, I've always thought it was weird that Riker was wearing a Star Fleet uniform on a Klingon ship, but Mendon was wearing a Star Fleet uniform on the Enterprise.
Jovet
2024-02-09 16:30:32 +0000 UTC2:25 That is not a holodeck. It's a specialized room for phaser practice and training. Being very dark, it's a cheap set to build.
Jovet
2024-02-09 16:26:52 +0000 UTC2:43 This actually comes from the Phase 2 Writer's Bible. Gene wanted it clear up front we were going to spend more down time with the crew, and I think that idea was one of many translated over from Phase 2 for TNG. The idea being not every story has to be some super dramatic thing, it can be a character piece/slice of life. It's also, in a general sense, what Star Trek is about. Showing us what the life of this future could be. The Holodeck is just one of those "toys" that offers so many opportunities for different kinds of play... Along with things we wont get into because of spoilers, but... Yeah, this is one of my favorite season 2 episodes. Not THE best, but definitely up there.
Steven Johnson
2024-02-09 16:25:55 +0000 UTCThis episode created optimism that the show would find its feet. Frakes is great once he is given something to really work with. Maybe Riker's talk with the Klingon whose father was disgraced is pushing things along too quickly, but I can't fault the sentiment. Also, Riker's comment to Worf at the end is a fine way to wrap up.
Numinous2019
2024-02-09 16:24:09 +0000 UTC0:16 That isn't what racism is. 1:18 That posture is called cockiness.
Jovet
2024-02-09 16:23:51 +0000 UTCOnce again, all these episode are "before my time" (only seen on repeats, and THIS one, only once), so I'm really struggling for things to say! Much better than I remember though... or maybe it's the shared experience that I enjoyed more
Ee'char
2024-02-09 16:10:22 +0000 UTC“This is the first good episode of TNG”.. Just kidding, but seriously a solid episode with a great script, and bearded Riker in full force.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-02-09 15:41:19 +0000 UTCIf there are 43 episodes better than this then it has to be the best show of all time
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-09 15:32:08 +0000 UTCThis episode has me so hyped when I first saw it, and nothing changed my mind since. This was the first GREAT episode in my opinion. More to come.
Eric Singer
2024-02-09 15:25:27 +0000 UTCThis is the first episode and one of three this season that are as good as anything in the series. (IMDB has it 44th.) I was 12 when I saw it and I’m jealous you got to watch it for the first time. :)
John M.
2024-02-09 15:18:33 +0000 UTC
