FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E6 - The Schizoid Man

My head cannon is that he simply he isn't actually as good a cyber expert as Soong...so he couldn't build his own android body...but his arrogance is so great he tells people he is. 🤷‍♂️

Greg Quinn

It's probably been mentioned but Data starts whistling as Graves did. In Encounter at Farpoint when we first see Data he is attempting to whistle and says he can't do it despite a lot of effort. Very cool little detail and an example of what makes the writing on this show so great. Also on the bridge Graves makes a callback to the song and the Tin Man saying words to the effect that you're not a man without heart.

David Scudder

Or four fingers, split in the middle.

Anthony Bernacchi

I do think it would have been cooler if Picard had predicted his own incapacitation (which I thought he might have done because I didn't notice the other body).

Anthony Bernacchi

I think it was a way for the producers to go against Roddenberry s edict about no Vulcans. A middle finger to Gene, so to speak.

Collin Freeman

Agreed

Collin Freeman

On a side note, it is astonishing how many of your questions and comments will be addressed and revisited as the seasons unfold. You are asking all the right questions and making all the right connections. Almost like you were their target audience or something. (see what I did there? 😉)

StealthMomo

Oh you're right, I never made that connection. Gives the scene more purpose, too, than just being a gag. Nice!

DataDroid

They only show Geordie knocked out but I always thought, by implication, there was another engineer there with him but we never see him onscreen. Perhaps they filmed a long shot that showed another person on the floor and it got cut for time? I'm fairly certain Picard wan't referencing himself as well when he called sickbay. [Edit: Just went back and watched the scene. After Picard is knocked out you can see two other sets of legs.]

StealthMomo

I'm with you, I like this episode a lot. But it wouldn't quite make my top tier list, only because of the quality of some of the others. Also I think the beard scene at the start was to help explain why it took the crew a little longer to catch on: They knew Data had been acting a little funny lately in his pursuit of being human, and just chalked it up to that at first.

Dan Halstead

Apparently he did not teach Soong everything he knew. 😅 Or just didn’t have the time to put one together.

Philbot

Yeah, Graves is "so amazing," he should have gotten his own android body made for himself.

Jovet

I never understood the point of it. Based on how "warp" is supposed to work, the ship would not be slowing down having just ended warp travel anyways. Shortsighted but luckily insignificant plot point.

Jovet

Yeah, the funeral speech was so cringy, Picard put a stop to it. Watching this with the boys was the first time I'd watched that part since I first saw it.

Jovet

Color me downright disappointed!!!

Jovet

That would be, like, the Company actually listening to Ripley! Just not gonna happen. LOL

Jovet

It's how Shakespeare might have written "in this fashion"

Jovet

Agreed, that's probably what was in the script. But, I mean, he was literally right in front of Picard's Ready Room waiting for the turbolift. I don't see how anyone didn't hear him LOL

StonyD

I don't think anyone else overheard Data whistling.

Anthony Bernacchi

It's an adverbial form of "thus."

Anthony Bernacchi

The one call back I wish they'd have pulled was from season 1 episode 1. When Data (with Ira inside) starts to whistle I wish they'd have had Riker hear/see that to show he's on to the switch. Since in the first episode Riker whistles in the holodeck and Data looks over and says "Remarkable".

A Surprisingly Moist Fart

His side of the story certainly added to the picture that basically everyone had a different idea of what TNG was supposed to be like. It took Michael Pillar and Ron D Moore to finally get them on track for a consistent style of writing.

Andreas Schmitt

it's a pretentious way of saying "thus"

Ee'char

I just binge-watched The Prisoner last summer, with its own “Schizoid Man” episode.

James H

English is not my mother tongue, but I watch everything out of the US and the UK not dubbed. I think I never heard of the word "thusly" before.

Sam Langanke

Agreed. The good episodes mean S2 is a real step up from S1, but the bad ones are worse. Unfortunately, this sort of feels like S2 is treading water overall and not moving TNG along the way it needed to develop.

Numinous2019

It’s weird but a part of me wants Ira to succeed and get his “2nd life” with his “girl”. He’s capable of so much more feeling than Data he should get a chance to make a go of it. But that’s also his downfall he’s only been an Android for like a day, Data is aware of his strength and short comings Ira is like a raw nerve in a indestructible machine.

Philbot

I think it's just to add flavor and world building. It's more like "Sometimes being beamed somewhere is a strange experience.", not, "This might change your personality and make you act like an egotistical old man.".

Anomalocaris

The strange thing about this episode is that they really pushed how a near warp transport could affect the people who were transported, but then it never gets mentioned again, even when Data starts acting strange. You'd think that someone would have suggested it as a possible reason, at least in passing.

Nerd's Gold

Yeah, they mentioned comments about Riker's job, but the away mission aspect seems to have been missed. Riker (and Star Trek first officers in general) basically have 3 jobs. One, he manages the day-to-day operations on the ship. Which crew members are assigned to which shifts, that kind of thing. Two, he is the default acting captain if Picard is unavailable or incapacitated for any reason. Three, he is the default on-site 'captain' for off-ship missions.

Jeff Cornell

I wouldn't worry about Riker not seeming to have much to do. Most of these early season 2 episodes haven't really featured away missions. Those are where Riker gets utilised the most, because he usually leads them.

Regan

I'm not sure why the writers chose to introduce Dr Selar instead of sending Dr Pulaski to Graves' World, but I do like the acknowledgement that the chief medical officer is the head of a team and not the only doctor on board. The Galaxy Class ships have a crew of over a thousand people. Of course the CMO isn't the only doctor. Even on the Constitution Class ship of TOS they showed this when they had Dr Mbenga treating Spock in "A Private Little War".

Regan

Yeah. Graves says to Picard "They said I shouldn't be up here", indicating that Geordi wasn't alone when he came up to confront him.

Regan

Well shit! I had no idea. Thank you for telling me. That sucks. Enjoyed hearing his side of history in the TNG doc Shatner made.

StonyD

After Picard is knocked unconscious, you can see a third body on the floor with him and Geordi, so Graves had already knocked out two people.

James H

you guys mentioned Tracy Tormé here. are you aware he recently died? rip

Narnman

Glad you liked this one, but I have trouble remembering I've actually seen it many times. Other episodes I can remember word for word, but not this one. In my seasons rankings I have this down for "Time Filler With Good Moments".

KatWithAttitude

I just saw on Facebook its brent spiners birthday. Happy birthday to a great actor

Matthew Beek

It's not exactly what one would expect for a season-opener, for sure. I would say it's probably better than Amok Time or Spock's Brain as a season opener though.

Darin Wagner

I think I have to clarify: I by no means think this is a bad episode. Not at all. But you know when a character or story just makes you feel uncomfortable? That's it for me. I also don't like it when someone does something that makes me feel embarrassed for them.. and that Data speech at the funeral gives me that in spades. So... great Brent Spiner episode, good human story... but it just rubs me the wrong way. But... I liked it better this time around, thanks to your reaction to it. So it's not the worst TNG episode in my opinion, not even close. It's just the one I like to watch the least.

Andreas Schmitt

Suffice it to say, this was an early fine performance from Spiner and a fine heavyweight performance from W. Morgan Sheppard... who seems a lot older here than he actually was... having been in his 50s here. It was kind of his niche to play elderly men even though he himself wasn't elderly. Selar was a small delight in this episode too.

Darin Wagner

To me this season isn’t just a bad one. It’s more like a roller coaster ride. It contains some of my favorite episodes and some of my least favorite. But it has a higher amount of the bad ones than later seasons, I’d say.

Joe Concepts

Josh has REPEATEDLY said: Do NOT tell us anything that does or does NOT happen. That includes whether characters return or do not return. For fucks sake. I'm sick and tired of this spoiling and then claiming it's not a spoiler despite going EXACTLY against what Josh has defined as a spoiler.

Andreas Schmitt

Interesting to see how we get more and more of the crew telling us how they really feel about Data’s “humanity.” In both the Sherlock Holmes episode and this one, we see Geordi arguing in favor of Data’s emotions, etc, and Picard admitting he is definitely more than a machine. He even calls Data a “life form.”

Joe Concepts

I was surprised that neither of you was inspired to stroke your beard thusly.

Joe Concepts

Writing anything beyond "First!" is profound. Trust me.

Jovet

*boner

Jovet

This is what I didn't like about the episode. I found it boring because it was extremely predictable. Other than Data's beard (which was terrible, especially compared to Riva's), I foresaw everything in this episode happening before it happened. Mr. Spiner did a pretty good job of playing not-Lore, too. But, oh, so predictable.

Jovet

Possibly! I mean we don't see what exactly Graves did to put his consciousness into Data, he might have done something to block Data's programming from logging and that's the reason he has no memory of the events.

DataDroid

Spoilers, Darin.... Anything that treats any knowledge of future episodes or casting decisions is a spoiler. Treat this channel as if the show is coming out today and we can't know what happens in the future because future episodes haven't been made yet.

Jovet

Uh, no Darin, it is a spoiler. I'll copy and paste straight from Alex's and Josh's words on the Patron Takes post: "NO SPOILERS - If it is information regarding anything THAT DOES OR DOES NOT HAPPEN after this episode, don't include it in your comment."

James Bottas

Hey this is cool timing .. it's Brent Spiner's birthday today 🥳

James Bottas

"Straight Data" reminded me of Sacha Baron Cohn's one character....

Greg Quinn

No spoiler. But 4:50 for those in the know. That's all.

Greg Quinn

Cameron and James, it's not a spoiler. No plot elements have been revealed. Cool your jets.

Darin Wagner

"That could be an interesting story." Yeah! And ... *bite on my tongue*

Sam Langanke

Please do not comment that things will or won't happen

James Bottas

They don't want to know future events that do or do not happen. Saying that a character appears/does not appear again is a spoiler.

Cameron Thacker

Check Memory Alpha if you don't believe me.

Darin Wagner

Speaking of a scene to give it away to the crew (especially Riker)....Data can't whistle. Remember? That should have been the moment.

StonyD

I remember seeing Brent spinet on night court,he was hilarious and now on tng he makes Data his own character,instead of being the new Spock

Mark

Okay, going forward, the moment any of the crew sees Data acting weird, it needs to be an immediate Red Alert lockdown. It's always going to be bad news.

StonyD

Maybe Graves consciousness alone was enough to enable Data's body to operate? Or was it just that Graves was the dominant personality and the real Data was confined to an android version of the subconscious?

Numinous2019

Riker brings the jazz, anything else is a bonus ☺️

SinocTheHodgeheg

I didn't know that. McGoohan would have been great. He's one of my favorite Irish actors.

Monty Crawford

I've been thinking about this the whole time now. At first I was 'Oh yeah, that makes sense', but ... hmm. I think he HAD to reactivate him at some point otherwise he wouldn't have been able to move in this body, would he? Also, in the episode 'Datalore' Data explained to Beverly that there were small projections that timed how long he would stay unconscious, that kinda implies to me that he would be reactived automatically after a while. Though, would that make it an actual off-button, then? But I think Data had to be actived at some point for Graves being able to use the android body. I could be wrong though^^ Perhaps they didn't want that experience have a lingering impact on Data, although it is weird that he can't remember ANYTHING. (sorry, got off on a bit of a tangent there..)

DataDroid

This feels like a season 1 episode to me. It takes far too long for the crew to realise what is happening to Data. Graves' part also seems too short for an actor like Patrick McGoohan, who was the first choice to play the part.

Numinous2019

Glad to hear you like Data and Riker. By this point in the series, I was all-in with all of the characters. Don't worry, plenty of more episodes to come. And to quote Commander Uhura "Be careful what you wish for. You may get it."

Collin Freeman

Also, remember that when Data mentions his off button to Graves and how it "robs [him] of his consciousness". This means that all the time Graves was in his body, Data was "off", and could not possibly have any memory of his actions while under Graves' influence.

Ee'char

Darin Wagner

Agreed on Brent's great performance, and the performance of the actor who played Dr Graves. To me the best part was the introduction of Suzie Plakson into the franchise. Hot hot hot hot.

Monty Crawford

Re-watching TNG as an adult gives a new appreciation for Brent Spiners work. Truly underrated as an actor.

Stephen Wright

Don’t be too concerned about cast members not being featured much, with 7 seasons they all get multiple opportunities to shine. Sometimes you get back to back episodes that feature one character heavily - it’s just the way it is. There isn’t a strict “rota”, which is a good thing as you don’t know what to expect.

Paul Rymer

I agree with you that Graves coming to the realization himself at the end that he had to leave Data's body was kinda weak to solve the problem. I think if they just had organized that scene a little differently it would have been more convincing. Graves tries to justify the injuries he had caused with excuses. If they had put the revelation that he had actually injured Kareen quite severely at the end and make THAT the final thing that convinces him that he has to leave the body because he can't handle the strength of an android body and is afraid he might hurt the woman he loves so much again would have been stronger imo.

DataDroid

This was an early episode I remember catching, before I'd *really* got into TNG (age 11-12). I remember all the wham lines, but the story was lost on me back then. Obviously, the "cable" channels over here have been repeating the franchise non-stop for YEARS, so this is far from the first time I've seen it since back then, but I don't really have much else to say. Except, "When I stroke the beard... thusly..." 😂😂

Ee'char

I....I want to say something PROFOUND because I am first! ..........................yeah, I got nothing.

StonyD