FULL DISCUSSION - Star Trek TNG S2E5 - Loud as a Whisper
Added 2024-01-31 19:42:53 +0000 UTC
Comments
I saw this episode first when I was around 12 or 13 years old and it's actually where I first learned that it's polite to speak directly to the person and not their translator. 🤷🏻♀️ I mean, I was never in the position to worry about that before then, but it was definitely one of those "oh if I'm ever in this position, this is what I should do!" things. My best friend when I was around 8 or 9 was a deaf girl, but we didn't have a translator or anything. We just played normally. I picked up a little sign language here and there just from being around her and we got along great until she had to move. I always find it interesting how un-awkward it was as a kid, whereas now if I were around someone I couldn't communicate with very well and it was just us two, I feel like I'd definitely feel anxious and awkward.
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-02-04 17:51:29 +0000 UTCI like Harry. I’ve always found Riva off putting.
Philbot
2024-02-02 21:53:17 +0000 UTCI know you're talking to OP, but...although I am a fan of furry redheads in general, Prince Harry is definitely not one of them! 😂 Though, that's more to do with his.. personality.
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-02-02 16:50:32 +0000 UTCNot a Prince Harry fan, I'm guessing? :-)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-02 14:28:26 +0000 UTCAnd that happened two seasons in a row!
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-02 14:27:39 +0000 UTCSomeone in the writers' room says "I have this cool idea for a scene. Someone shoots someone and we see them disintegrate. Now we just need to come up with 45 minutes of stuff to surround it."
Dan Krantz
2024-02-02 02:21:06 +0000 UTCAnother "filler" episode
ScenicCityCoins
2024-02-02 01:30:55 +0000 UTCHmmm... PTSD from Dr. Zaius? Is that you Bright Eyes? 😉
Moonlander
2024-02-02 01:04:06 +0000 UTCIn terms of why Reeva went into so much frustration after the loss of his chorus, I never understood it to be angry at the species (although would be fair) My take on it was he was angry at himself for letting the situation happen and he blamed himself and lost confidence in his own judgment and the story for troi was to help him see past that
Andrew Duffy
2024-02-01 19:23:37 +0000 UTC😂 I like his furry orange face personally! Imo I think she was actually interested?
Lady Beyond The Wall
2024-02-01 18:52:24 +0000 UTCPulaski always reminded me of my aunt.
Philbot
2024-02-01 18:23:35 +0000 UTCI was never sure if Troi was actually interested in Riva or just humoring him. Maybe it’s just because I was put off by his furry orange face.
Philbot
2024-02-01 18:20:11 +0000 UTCBased on the single writing credit, it was a woman that...from what I can gather in this episode...wanted to write about disability, and used Troi as a self-insert (the character was instantly enamored with her, she solved the problem, and the entire end scene was the Captain telling her how awesome she is.....see also "Ensign Ricky will save us!" fanfic)
StonyD
2024-02-01 16:51:42 +0000 UTCWhile, I am an exception to the rule that season 2 sucks. But, I have often been the lone defender of this episode. Cool to see so many positive responses connected to having rewatched and episode forgotten or ignored for a significant period of time. It is not to say there are not flaws but time and perspective often lead to new insight. it is fascinating.
Thicketdweller
2024-02-01 15:26:16 +0000 UTCThere have been worse but this was a tension-free, not quite a compelling story where there was not enough story and too many minutes. Not to be too dismissive, but this was basically a more serious episode of the Brady Bunch. There a kid would have a problem, the father gives them a speech and then they say "Gee dad, I never thought about it like that", behavior changed, problem solved. Here they took 40 minutes plus to do what the Bradys did in 20, only it was Troi giving the speech. It would be interesting to talk with whoever wrote this and ask them what they saw as the virtues of a story with no villain, and no problem introduced until minute 25 of 40, and why they thought this was entertaining.
Ken R
2024-02-01 10:40:18 +0000 UTCMuldaur was one of my earliest screen crushes 😍. Whatever about how Dr. Pulaski was written, Muldaur played her very capably.
Numinous2019
2024-02-01 09:45:27 +0000 UTCThat scene when Riva and Troi were having dinner would have been more cool if they cut back and she was sitting on the edge of the bed pulling her boots on...AKA Kirk..
Badger
2024-02-01 06:41:23 +0000 UTCIndeed, politeness dictates that you also speak directly to a hearing person using a translator for another language. Riva's angry reaction serves as an etiquette lesson for the audience.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-01 05:30:07 +0000 UTCThey commented on her approving smile when Data demonstrates sign language, a very nice moment. (Diana Muldaur is, of course, a fantastic actress.)
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-01 05:28:24 +0000 UTCAccording to a Los Angeles Times article from the time of the episode's broadcast, Riva was partially inspired by Henry Kissinger. The TNG staff seemed clueless that not everyone would consider that comparison flattering to Riva.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-01 05:27:04 +0000 UTCIIRC, Gene Roddenberry first met George La Forge at a Star Trek convention where La Forge went to the costume ball as the post-accident Christopher Pike.
Anthony Bernacchi
2024-02-01 05:24:58 +0000 UTC"Don't look at them; look at me!" Riva is Riva. The thoughts and words are his own, expressed through the voices and emotions of the Chorus. Even though it is the Chorus speaking, it is rude and diminishing to Riva to have any response directed to the Chorus. This is analogous to a deaf person being ignored while using an interpreter. The instinct of most hearing people is to respond directly to the interpreter, since they were the one who spoke, but it can be offensive and exclusionary to the deaf person who is actually expressing themself. That's why the tone was sharp in that instance.
Avaria
2024-02-01 04:22:41 +0000 UTCThe meeting room you were trying to name is called the Observation Lounge.
Regan
2024-02-01 02:55:42 +0000 UTCA lot of deaf people do find it offensive when people ignore them and speak to their translator instead.
Regan
2024-02-01 02:50:36 +0000 UTCBy the way, I find it amusing that so far....it seems like Josh and Alex feel about S2 the way everyone else feels about S1 LOL! I think (hope) that will change as we get deeper into the season.
StonyD
2024-02-01 01:44:20 +0000 UTC"No aggression, even if provoked" , cut to Riker looking over at Worf, and Worf is like "...what?! I am TOTALLY under control, you son of a--" LOL
StonyD
2024-02-01 01:43:15 +0000 UTCIt's a perfectly decent episode. It's just that it desperately needed a B plot to compensate for the A plot not having enough going on to fill a full episode.
Adam Zey
2024-02-01 01:42:51 +0000 UTCYeah she looked more annoyed with him most of the time than anything. Both she and Riker had odd disapproving looks of Reva to start. I kept waiting for some reveal about how he caused a lot of deaths or something. But nope. Just ambiguous direction I guess.
StonyD
2024-02-01 01:41:15 +0000 UTCDid you notice the continuing development of Pulaski?
Aramis Calcutt
2024-02-01 01:21:27 +0000 UTCYeah, this one is one of those forgetable ones. I watched just to kill time this afternoon. Good reaction though.
Monty Crawford
2024-02-01 01:02:43 +0000 UTCAnd yet, it did go with the "disabilities aren't disabling" route, where the accomodations are commonplace, technological advancements exist to make everyone more equally abled, and when there is a disability that hasn't been accounted for or figured out, there's more hope that it will, which as a sighted but legally blind person, I appreciate the hell out of.
Nolan
2024-02-01 00:46:50 +0000 UTCIt featured Edith Keeler, but I wouldn’t call her the star of the episode. Kirk, Spock, & Bones all had stuff going on as well and Kirk was definitely the focus. Too Short a Season is probably the better comparison, but that episode moved pretty quickly. The guest character criticism isn’t what makes or breaks the episode, it’s one of the factors though. Also, I wouldn’t say we LOVED too short a season, it didn’t make our lists. It was on a similar level to this one.
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-02-01 00:17:50 +0000 UTCI must say I'm having trouble with your explanation "if it's completely about a guest character, then my interest is limited". I mean, City on the Edge of forever featured Edith Keeler a lot and you cared.. and you LOVED the episode about the old-then-young Admiral guest character... So what is it about a guest character focused episode that makes you like or dislike it?
Andreas Schmitt
2024-01-31 22:29:47 +0000 UTC19:38 Yeah, but he could have seen the shadows in the room changing. That would tell me someone was walking up to me.
Jovet
2024-01-31 22:29:38 +0000 UTCWelp, I liked this episode a lot more than you did... if you love the next one I'll cry :D
Andreas Schmitt
2024-01-31 22:26:33 +0000 UTC7:40 I presumed that Troi was being polite towards Riva but had no real interest in him romantically. Riva was into her in all sorts of ways... professionally, personally, and lustily.
Jovet
2024-01-31 22:17:58 +0000 UTC7:00 That's a very astute point, Josh. I have been around numerous sight and hearing impaired people in my life. My father was blind since about age 6, and I had a deaf distant uncle. One thing I quickly learned is that such disabled people have a choice: they can accept themselves, or they can resent the "normies." I've been around several such people who choose the route of resentment and are bitter towards "the hearies" or the "the sighties," and it's really rather sad. I guess I am lucky that my father was not one of those people. He was very well adjusted, pretty independent, and had no big chips on his shoulder for being blind. I just wish some of the people he circulated with could have learned from him.
Jovet
2024-01-31 22:16:37 +0000 UTCOh my!
Jovet
2024-01-31 22:04:55 +0000 UTCYeah Ten Forward backdrop boys! Love it!!
JD Nevesytrof
2024-01-31 20:46:41 +0000 UTCLiterally, I have no memory of this one at all. I know i've seen it. I just... Nope.
Steven Johnson
2024-01-31 20:42:09 +0000 UTCWe bring him up in the next one
Josh (Target Audience)
2024-01-31 20:41:28 +0000 UTCI mean, it's Riker, what more do you need to say? He's based. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDVX_CizAdg
Steven Johnson
2024-01-31 20:40:59 +0000 UTCGuys, unless I'm phasing in and out of this universe (The Tholian Web) you didn't discuss Riker, after indicating you would.
Numinous2019
2024-01-31 20:33:31 +0000 UTCApologies if someone has mentioned this before (it’s hard to keep track) but Roddenberry named Geordi La Forge after an actual ST fan, George La Forge, who was a paraplegic. I’m glad TNG didn’t go the whole “no one has any disability, this is the future, everything is perfect” route.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2024-01-31 20:18:04 +0000 UTC
