UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S1E17 - When the Bough Breaks

I suppose I have a soft spot for this one. It's certainly not one of my favourites, but I don't mind it. There are flaws in the execution to be sure, but there is some potential here. I do find the idea of this hidden planet that's become a myth to be fairly intriguing. It's a decent addition to the lore of the Trek galaxy. I get the criticism that it's never explained how Aldea became this myth, but ask the average person where the stories of Atlantis came from. Virtually everyone has heard of Atlantis, but few could really point out the exact origins of the myth. I think the whole "ozone destruction" thing was a little on the nose as an environmental message. It should have just been this barely detectable radiation from the generator that has this cumulative effect over time. Of course this would remove all the drama from the episode, but there was an obvious solution that would have worked for everyone that nobody mentioned. Stealing children from their parents is obviously a morally bankrupt move, but I guess the point was they were desperate. That aside, it was also a stupid move. Those 7 children would never have been able to form a viable gene pool, forgetting about the radiation. Assuming there was no viable way to get the kids back, the federation would either take whatever the Aldeans were offering or reject their offer and leave, but either way they'd quarantine the planet so nobody else could be abducted. The children would grow up resenting their abductors, and passing that down to their children. Eventually the Aldeans would die off and leave behind resentful young families who would now control the planet. At that point the federation would be able to move in and lay claim to their whole world and it's tech. It was just never going to work. But what would have been a much easier sell would have been letting the Aldeans adopt orphaned children. Now I'm sure especially under Gene's vision, that there are far fewer abusive and negligent parents in the 24th century, humanity having "evolved" and all that. Plus with poverty and disease and war being all but eliminated, there's much less stopping people from getting their shit together. Still, there would be SOME people that put their kids up for adoption because they're unwilling or unable to be parents, and as we saw with Jeremy Aster, kids can be orphaned by accidents or disease. Certainly kids with no families or homes would be better off living with the Aldeans. The radiation issue would still need to be dealt with, but this would obviously be a much more mutually beneficial arrangement for all involved. Wesley was pretty solid in this episode. He did a good job balancing taking care of the other kids and being a starfleet officer in training and trying to find a way out of there. But seriously, are you gonna tell me the old woman didn't catch on that he was scanning her? Maybe she knew and figured there was no harm in it. It was also nice to see that Picard is better with children than he let on in Farpoint. It's evolution for his character.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Unless the device, which is reacting to her emotion, can play music that is melancholy in both cultures, considering the technological capacity of the species, its certainly possible to manage

david mcgowan

Yeah I was talking about a certain character in a certain series who we see go from teen to adulthood. Don’t want to spoil so I can’t describe more.

Jef Etters

Very late to the conversation (I was sick the last couple of weeks), but there's a major philosophical problem with the scene where the girl plays "melancholy" music on the Aldean instrument and her "foster father" asks her to play something happier. Research has shown that, even among humans, people from different cultures don't hear music as having the same emotional content -- not every culture considers Western minor-key music to sound sad, for example (and, of course, different cultures use different key structures and musical intervals). There's no reason that a melody would sound sad to both a human and an alien, unless one of them was already familiar with the music of the other's culture.

Anthony Bernacchi

You’re gong to have to wait until Voyager until we get to a planet where time passes at a different rate. That’s a good episode, though. Thinking way ahead, the pilot of DS9 aired while TNG was still on. Technically, to keep the timeline straight, you should alternate TNG episodes with DS9 when you get there.

Richard Finch

The handful of kids they kidnapped aren’t going to repopulate the planet by themselves, anyway. And after a couple generations you’ve got kids that are all cousins.

Richard Finch

Yeah, but Bog and Jake were actually supporting characters, they weren’t one-offs like these kids we’ll never see again.

Richard Finch

I think this was our first look at the more consistently-written Wesley of future seasons. Early Wesley sure was all over the place.

Ryan Baillie

I think Jef is talking about a certain series as a whole - not a particular episode. I can't think what episode you are referring to. "Similitude" maybe?

Ryan Baillie

Oh wait: I just remembered a very famous kid episode - but that one's fantastic.

Ryan Baillie

This was my second time watching this episode, and my first in a decade. I couldn't remember much, but had a fond (if vague) recollection about this one. Not the best episode - certainly - but it was charming. I remember this being *the* kid episode. There are kids in future episodes - and even some A-plots involving them - but this is the one where the kids were the stars.

Ryan Baillie

Never minded this episode but so have to keep reminding myself I was 11 when it came out. The setup isn’t great but it’s got a nice theme from Ron Jones and some good performances. Probably the best of the “kid” episodes. There are worse S1 episodes.

Jon1701

Not sure what the ADR on the bridge was about in this scene, but they had a habbit of using it throughout TNG to make minor changes to dialogue and such. In the episode you watched recently, where the ferengi bring picards old ship, the stargazer, back, it was used a fair bit, as the ship was originally supposed to be a Constitution class, same as Kirk's Enterprise, but after filming a lot of scenes, it was decided it would be a different class, the Constellation class, so they had to change it.

FPG

Chris S. That's an interesting idea (to limit the screen time). which I hadn't previously thought of. I do think that writers have a responsibility to young actors, especially if they are cast in high profile shows. Those actors need to be protected against fan or audience backlash by the writers being very careful with their parts.

Numinous2019

Dolphins aren't extinct. There are dolphins on Enterprise. You will never see them there but the old tech manuals of Enterprise from the 1990s listed cetacean ops as an area of the ship manned by dolphins for the purposes of 3 dimensional navigation studies. On galaxy class starships it was near the navigation labs.

Strife

ADR could have been done because the director during editing decided he wanted the actor the emphasize a word he did not in the original audio.

Mike Rogers

To within the correct second, sure. But, particularly because the episode audio is still audible in the room, it takes significantly better synchronization than that for it to feel right from moment to moment. The "3, 2, 1, go" works great for that, but dealing with that half a dozen times per episode would bother me a lot more than occasionally talking over some dialog. That's just an inherent obstacle of reaction channels. The whole point is to see their reactions, but any actual reaction they have necessarily interrupts whatever the show is doing at that moment. Feedback is good for helping them find the right balance on that tightrope, but pausing for discussion would fundamentally break the experience imo, at least for the uncut reactions.

Jeff Cornell

Yes essentially, Automated Dialogue Replacement. In TNG it's often used because of poor boom microphone placement, muffed lines or on-set noises (the automatic doors were distinctly loud in real life)

JD Nevesytrof

Late to the party here but just to clarify, The director Kim Manners is a man. he later went on to be a producer & frequent director for the X-Files during it's original run then later Supernatural. He died in 2009 of lung cancer

Retro Tom

They display timecode, its pretty easy to synch that way

Derek Orr

That might work fine for the YouTube edited videos, but it sounds like a synchronization nightmare for the uncut reactions.

Jeff Cornell

Did you recognize Sue Ellen Mischke, the “bra-less wonder” from Seinfeld?

Aramis Calcutt

Honestly it’s getting harder to watch these when you guys keep talking over the dialogue in the show. Could you guys consider just pausing here and there during the show to comment ?

Derek Orr

Josh: "If you guys like this episode, we're gonna have to have a team meeting or something" Does anybody else want that team meeting anyway? ;)

Andreas Schmitt

If it's the one I'm thinking of, WOW - Josh and Alex will jump right out of their chairs................

Rhett Coates

That is not well-liked by fandom. And I dont know why. I LOVE that episode. Its actually haunting/creepy at times, and strangely wondrous. My lips are sealed at this point though.

Chris S.

Hmm. Possibly. But Alex and Josh have proven to be unpredictable, which is great because they always give us a new perspective. You might be totally right, or way off, but we’ll see. They might not like “C.O.A.” For obvious reasons, BUT I think its a good plot.

Chris S.

I won't spoil either, but it's definitely a WTF moment...

KatWithAttitude

That would SUCK!

Chris S.

I know all the behind scenes stuff, and the series itself backward and forward. But enlighten me. What does ADR stand for? Is it re-overdubbed dialogue?

Chris S.

To me, sorry, but the old man and the sculptor dad felt like creepers to me. Lol. Stop touching Harry you pasty teabag! Lol

Chris S.

I cant spoil….but its been a while. Thinking…thinking….

Chris S.

Such great points! Oooo, Aldea is such a legend. Ok, how? Exactly. They could have been a planet and the Enterprise receives a distress call from them, and thats the teaser. Then you dont have the “mythical legend” part to worry about.

Chris S.

Thats interesting. Fresh for you too! I guess that one fell through the cracks.

Chris S.

Oh I remember about this one is some stupid scene where a little kid is playing a harp or something and disappears the harp drops to the floor or something I don’t know. It’s 40 years ago and I am as senile as fuck. I don’t think I need to see it again.

Rich Cirivilleri

You know, I agree. When they did feature him prominently, they had trouble making him relatable and while he is a prodigy, he shouldn’t be the one to solve the problem in any episode. I think they should have made him a guest character, only appearing a couple of times throughout the seasons, especially if the episode heavily involves Beverly. I think “Justice” did it right. Wesley was prominent, but it was really intense for Beverly, about to lose her son now after Jack.

Chris S.

Frere Jacques, Frere Jacques….yeah. Lol

Chris S.

No, definitely not. But as the article says, it is, "...a milestone in the company’s quest to build artificial general intelligence". It represents the first time an AI is using its own (artificial) intelligence to reason out the solution to a problem, rather than relying on a bank of training data to provide the answer.

Blaine Martin

Dont feel bad fellas. This was not a good episode. It was very TOS in style and plot. But yeah, the children episodes are usually annoying. But, they’re few and far between. However some intense acting by Patrick Stewart lifts the episode a bit. He was fired up about the abduction, and Beverly’s concern obviously. The way though that mother and son kind of worked together to scan the inhabitants to find a solution was kind of nice. Not a deep episode by any means, but had a couple of highlights. I know you guys have heard this before, without spoilers, but the 3rd season, there is a complete change in style and tone, and the writing starts to focus more on our characters, instead of the old-school TOS plot style. Uniforms, cinematography, writing, even music, all begins to change. Excited to get there!

Chris S.

Without being specific re: “kid episodes”, possibly my least favorite TNG episodes are a late 5th season, and an early 6th season pair of “kid shows”

Glenn Johnson Barnes

I disagree to an extent to that one Patreon comment about how all kids episodes are never good in the franchise. Without getting into spoilers, DS9 had great kid characters that actually feel like real people, have character arcs, and grow throughout the series.

Ca$hWednesday

I'll say it again, Will Wheaton needed better writing. He may not have been the most experienced young actor, but he was capable of playing Wesley as more relatable and more sympathetic than the scripts that were provided for him usually allowed. I don't know why things worked out on TNG the way they did (I'm avoiding spoilers), but I don't believe it was Wheaton's fault as an actor.

Numinous2019

The article says that the model’s progress with elementary math is not a signal of AGI or super intelligence.

Josh (Target Audience)

This is something kids animation has been struggling with for a while, execs thinkong kids needs to be watching other kids. Which is boneheaded as all kids are looking for figures to look up to and be inspired by. Kids are more likely to be wary of other kids than anything. Bout the only good example I have of a cartoon mandated kid character is Enzo from ReBoot, if one can get past the jamk pioneering 90s animation. (Frak, I forgot I use it as my avatar, lol)

Nolan

Hmm, and they wanted the kids they got to have the most potential to grow into successful members of society. These aliens really be kidnapping kids the same way some shop for milk at the grocery store: "Hmm, no homo, just the 1%"

Nolan

I don't agree that Star Trek and kids don't mix. Later shows use kids very well. Without going too much into future trek there are kid characters that are actually well written and integrated into the storylines.

Phillip Grischa

lol

Prof Moff

You mentioned at the end of the video that you're not worried about AI because it "doesn't actually display any intelligence and only regurgitates the ideas we train it on". Unfortunately that info is about a month out-of-date. OpenAI had a project called Q* which made that exact breakthrough last month. That's a big part of why their CEO was fired recently - he tried to keep it secret from the board. You can read about it in the MIT Technology Review right here - https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/11/27/1083886/unpacking-the-hype-around-openais-rumored-new-q-model

Blaine Martin

The Enterprise-D technical manual shows an area labeled "Cetacean Ops". This is later shown in Lower Decks on another class starship. But suffice to say, dolphins do exist and some even serve aboard starships as members of Starfleet.

Blaine Martin

Let's make an episode based on Brigadoon without saying the word Brigadoon.

Nerd's Gold

Now, a dark but funny ending would have been the sound effect of the dad smacking the kid around off camera when he says he doesn't want to do calc. This episode was alright, kind of harmless, it has a little story, a little problem and they found the solution logically. It's way better than the Ferengi garbage. The main woman went on to become a real almost-star, who was in Desperate Housewives, Dallas, and Starship Troopers. So I guess she had a career.

Ken R

You were one of hundreds. This was filmed the day after the Haven video went up on YouTube. Go read the comments for what we mean.

Josh (Target Audience)

Tom Occhipinti

You’ll get a lot of forehead bumps just hold on

Scarpad’s Domain

They wanted to show by the 24th century you had families on the ship

Scarpad’s Domain

In the beginning they wanted kids more involved, families , but that pretty much got abandoned

Scarpad’s Domain

*FINALLY!!! Wow, you guys are giving us long-time Trekkies and viewers of the show a perspective that is SO fresh, it articulates what some of us (--me here--) have been trying to figure out since the show was in its First Run. Alex's comment that there was no real back-story given on just WHY the planet Aldea had such a storied, "mythical" existence: THAT was the missing piece of the puzzle that always, well, puzzled me, as to why I never really liked this episode. I actually liked it for being another Star Trek episode I got to see the crew, but something about this story always BOTHERED me - as the freelance writer that I am - and I never "got it" until YOU guys reviewed the story and made the comment referred to above. (Yes, I've written a Star Trek story; ask me off-site about that if you wish.) The acting and directing/production values were way up there, but the story lacked ANY exposition as to just how this world was so mythical. That is a huge deal! Having at least some back-story on such things as how often had it "appeared" in Starfleet lore, or how, or what captains made contact (if any), should have been revealed, especially if it might have added tapestry to how the story wove its way from a kidnapping (pardon the pun) to how an entire race was dying from radiation poisoning. PLEASE keep up with these comments: YOU GUYS brought genuine appreciation for this episode that until now I didn't really care about. Now, I want to see what was written for this episode, what was REMOVED (for running time issues, perhaps?), who made those decisions and why, and how author might have felt of having that deleted, IF that is what happened here. EXCELLENT perception, guys. Most excellent.

Rhett Coates

I liked Miri, and I thought this episode was ok. And this is the first ep where Wes wasn’t annoying

Scarpad’s Domain

Sort of a classic TOS "laughter on the bridge" ending, with Picard taking the place of Spock.

James H

When kids watch an adventure show they're learning how to be adults from the behavior of the "hero" characters. Kid characters just get in the way of that process because kids already know how to be kids.

James H

Someone wake me when this episode is over. ZZzzzzzzzzz

Collin Freeman

I don’t hate this episode. It just exists and you know to avoid it in the future.

Geoffrey Linehan

That's a cry for help due to Lwaxana being a terrible mother lol

StonyD

I watched every single episode of TNG as it aired, from beginning to end. I've seen many of them dozens of times over the years, and own it all on BluRay. I genuinely have absolutely NO memory of this episode whatsoever.

StonyD

My only real takeaway from this episode is I genuinely liked Wesley in this one.

Ca$hWednesday

I completely forgot that one. Well, now I remember why.

Sam Langanke

oh I should point out I do not mean here, I mean on Youtube. I read some of those comments and I think there is a lot of people that need a hug.

Prof Moff

**WARNING** **WARNING** I am sure you are going to get massive comments for your dolphins are extinct comment. Prepare. The trekkie army will be armed with tech manuals, scenes and other proof as to why your comment was the dumbest thing ever said on the internet..... Okay it wasn't, but it won't stop the hardcore know-it-alls from making some dumb point fandom has created. GOOD LUCK

Prof Moff

About kid episodes: no spoilers but in one of the Trek series, a child grows to an adult in arguably the widest range of growth in the entire franchise. And it is incredibly well written.

Jef Etters

Yep. One ep comes to mind where the entire performance of a huge guest is entirely ADR’d.

Jef Etters

Rest assured they get a lot better at kid episodes and there aren’t too many of them in the franchise.

Paul Rymer

I admit, I find it amusing when Troi says humans are unusually attached to their children. As opposed to Betazoids? Or maybe just Lwaxana lol

Glenn Johnson Barnes

Well, I thought you might like this one better than the TOS Kids Eps. But you did not...at least it's only 1 out of 17 which is bad.

Duane Chancey

Maybe that was part of the scan

Josh (Target Audience)

I think one major problem here is that the writers are so set on making no one seem too bad, and make them be nice to each other. All the kids are well-behaved and very polite to the aliens, and all the aliens are very pleasant people who don't mean any real harm to anyone. Aside from Picard yelling once or twice and Radue getting mad, there's no conflict. I guess you could argue that they took kids they could tell wouldn't be trouble makers?

Joe Concepts

I will predict right now that of the two you'll do next week you will really like at least one of them.

KatWithAttitude

I've got a real question. Aside from the creepy thought that they maybe were expected some of these kids to, let's say, reproduce with each other... what if they found out a couple of them were gay?

Joe Concepts

But an adult sponge!

Joe Concepts

I don't love this episode, but I don't hate it. This episode didn't bore me, either. And the sets were really well done! There are others coming I found much more boring/dumb/worse. Masaka! Korgano!

Jovet

Get used to obvious ADR, they use it a LOT over the entire series.

JD Nevesytrof

45:03 You know what? I never before noticed that fluffy (snot rag) was stuck to Picard's back at the very end. haha

Jovet

“What are those furry things from Star Trek? Oh, god, what are they?” Are you telling me you’re having trouble….with “tribbles”?

Ragnarok

The main character of my favorite childhood show was a sponge

Josh (Target Audience)

Perfectly right when you say you don't get why TV people think kids need kids to relate to a show! I've often said the same. It seems like now, even like action/adventure kind of cartoons feature kid characters. When I was growing up, all the popular shows were superhero and action shows starring adult characters. Even something like Transformers included one single kid but even he was a teenager. G.I. Joe didn't need little kid members, He-Man's didn't have a little brother, and Star Wars movies were all about adults, etc. I have definitely noticed that many of the shows my nieces and nephews watch are kid-centric now.

Joe Concepts

ROTFL! @ "it's a sex planet"

Jovet

Wil Wheaton's brother and sister play two of the children.

KatWithAttitude

One of if not the best cold openings is still a few seasons away.

KatWithAttitude

Ohh something to watch after work!

Bret Kay