UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S1E16 - Too Short a Season
Added 2023-11-24 15:00:07 +0000 UTC
Comments
I've always known this one had a reputation as one of the worst eps of S1, but I never really understood why. Yes, it's not a great episode, but it's not bad either. I think the weak points would be the terrible makeup(maybe having a different actor play the old Jameson) and Karnas being rather cartoonish. They wasted too much time on repetitive "bring me the real Jameson" scenes, and then after he dies, all of a sudden this guy is full of respect for him. Just didn't make sense. This drug existing has major implications, but at least they made some effort to downplay it's availability and make it seem dangerous, but honestly it seemed fairly benign before he OD'ed on it. Also nice to see Picard just steamrolling over Riker's unwillingness to let him go into dangerous situations. Perhaps something to do with he and Picard dealing with the Bynar hijacking, but that was ON the ship, AND they had nobody else to call on. Either way, going on an armed rescue is a big step. But yeah, big improvement for Picard here. Rohner did a good job, especially after they got him out of the ridiculous makeup. I suppose he would qualify as a "badmiral", but at least he's repentant about his mistake and trying to make amends, so he's not as bad as many. I also like that he didn't just shrug off his wife because of his newfound youth. His last words that he "only sees the gold" were really touching. It's been said that on some level men will always see the women they get together with as she was when they first met. Jameson still thinks of Anne as the girl he married 50 years earlier, regardless of what either looks like now. So there's good and bad here, and it's mediocre for me, but far from the dumpster fire it's made out to be.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-23 08:14:18 +0000 UTCor could have hired a different actor to play the older version
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-23 03:30:08 +0000 UTCIf I remember correctly, originally this was supposed to be a direct sequel to “A Private Little War.” They couldn’t get Shatner so they created Admiral Jamison.
Richard Finch
2023-12-03 04:19:38 +0000 UTCThe makeup it terrible compared to what we get later with similar characters. And even previously with Bones. No idea what happened here. Was this Michael Westmore? I almost cannot imagine it was him. Edit: It was him but apparently he was overworked at the time and it was a rush-job. Oh well.. definitely one of the worst results I've seen from Westmore.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-28 01:13:08 +0000 UTC'Just watched your reaction video (full episode) and knew you would hear from some fans they didn't like this one. HOWEVER, your "first time seeing" perspective brought an entirely new dimension to the story, which I hadn't chosen to "see" before watching it again WITH YOU GUYS. I found your viewing completely refreshing, and now realize I myself thought less of this story NOT because of any issue the others here might consider, but only because, up until now, the primary thing I perceived was that there was little or no character development for THE MAIN CAST. That's what I recall, but YOUR take on it was so in-depth (I hadn't made the connection to "A Private Little War" as you did), it made me realize just how good this story was - and that the guest actor playing Mark Jameson was indeed REALLY GOOD. Perhaps, exceptional. (Thanks go to writers of the show such as D.C. Fontana for the story's deep quality!) Anyway, thank you both from bringing new life to an episode I didn't particularly care for - until now. You will indeed see "clinkers" of future TNG stories (as another patron suggested), but I believe even those will bring joy to your viewing of TNG. I won't give any spoilers, although I will repeat what I've said before in other threads here: YOU WILL BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED at what is still in store for TNG, even before Season One is complete. GET READY, gentlemen: you are about to go where you NEVER thought you'd go.... before. I'm not kidding. (I'm rubbing my hands together, and here's a HUGE grin on my face in saying that..............)
Rhett Coates
2023-11-28 00:27:41 +0000 UTCWoo hoo!
James Bottas
2023-11-27 04:52:24 +0000 UTCWow, I didn't remember he was only supposed to by 85 years old here. He looks terrible for 85 in THIS time, and especially in the 24th century!
Joe Concepts
2023-11-27 01:16:01 +0000 UTCI don't think this episode reminds me of the Deadly Years so much as it does the TAS episode, "The Counter-Clock Incident". I thought overall it was an above-average episode. B/B-. You mentioned how much this episode used the guest actor a lot, which the rest of the TNG cast also noted and complained about at the time. The producers worked to not let that happen again (the guest actors overtaking or overshadowing the regular cast).
Collin Freeman
2023-11-26 22:53:32 +0000 UTCI'll be damned.
Monty Crawford
2023-11-26 22:15:50 +0000 UTCYou get the gold star!
Monty Crawford
2023-11-26 22:10:34 +0000 UTCJames for the win
Collin Freeman
2023-11-26 21:56:06 +0000 UTCMy comment is not so much about politics as it is about how people on both sides of our political spectrum can be shown evidence of truth and dismiss it.
Kelly Stith
2023-11-26 18:01:03 +0000 UTCAs some folks already pointed out in the Patron Takes, Michael Pataki (Karnas) was also Korax, the drunk Klingon who called the Enterprise a garbage scow in "Tribbles."
James H
2023-11-26 17:12:22 +0000 UTCThis episode out of context: "You have shown me sequential pictures, Picard! But I remain UNCONVINCED! Show me a KNIFE WOUND!"
StonyD
2023-11-26 04:36:49 +0000 UTCSay 'Picard' one more time mf...!
Badger
2023-11-26 02:33:13 +0000 UTCLooking ahead at the season's episode list. There are some good ones on the way, but I suspect a lot of us are waiting for one very specific episode that I hope nothing spoils. TRY NOT TO READ THOSE EPISODE DESCRIPTIONS, GUYS! I've seen "cable guide" descriptions of some episodes being run on TV, and one gave away a massive spoiler. And honestly even the Paramount Plus summaries are sometimes giving away a bit much.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-26 00:37:01 +0000 UTCYes and no, trek is often about morality plays and issues that mirror the real world, politics is intertwined in its DNA in many ways
Derek Orr
2023-11-25 19:16:58 +0000 UTCYou think one of them would have mentioned the scar thing a lot sooner in that last scene It was a bit hard to believe karnas would all of sudden decades later go to these lengths to trick and capture and get revenge on the Admiral Admiral having the conn was inconsistent…one scene it just appears to mean sitting at the helm, another scene it means in command in the captains chair.
Derek Orr
2023-11-25 19:14:36 +0000 UTCI can think of some future episodes where that just may happen...
Jovet
2023-11-25 15:49:34 +0000 UTCI think he’s a better actor out of makeup. Nobody ever mentions that not only did the character get younger but he also went from muppet to man. 😂
Philbot
2023-11-25 10:16:20 +0000 UTCListening to the rest, I found the hammy acting fun, but Karnas or whatever his name was does get a little repetitive the final scene. Where there was opportunity for real drama, the wife staying old while he gets young, the show kind of brushed it aside quickly. They were like a bizarro Capt and Mrs April. Good catch on Rocky 4, and he I think might be the guy who told Scotty the ship was garbage? I looked through the comments and don't see any mention of him but it sounds like him.
Ken R
2023-11-25 06:34:04 +0000 UTCThis was fun and he was good but this is no Doomsday Machine.
Ken R
2023-11-25 06:06:58 +0000 UTCYet another season one episode that wasn't as bad as I remember. I am starting to think that the biggest reason people don't like season one (and two) is not because they are full of bad episodes, but because they are full of mediocre episodes. There are no stand outs in season one. Season two has a few significant episodes, that are either good or great (one of them is anyway. Maybe just very good). But, once you get past about the first third of season three, the bangers start coming, and you really don't have to wait long between them from then to the end of season seven.
Nerd's Gold
2023-11-25 05:44:12 +0000 UTCI mean, he still has the scar though... so... gotta go with de-aging doesn't reverse scarring. Major plot point ;)
James Bottas
2023-11-25 03:58:40 +0000 UTCI didn't even remember this one! I thoroughly enjoyed it!
Captain Proton
2023-11-25 00:26:39 +0000 UTCIn my version Jameson would have been his age when he dealt with Karnas, not a teen
Mark Chrisco
2023-11-25 00:20:10 +0000 UTCThe end (the last act) is what I don't like. The rest of it is okay.
Jovet
2023-11-25 00:13:34 +0000 UTCI don't think Jameson could have looked close to being a teenager like he did right near the end with an actor that old. He didn't follow the directions and it cost him his life.
Jovet
2023-11-25 00:12:31 +0000 UTCI'm really anxious to see how they react to ALL of the episodes. They both have interesting viewpoints on them, which is very refreshing.
Jovet
2023-11-24 23:54:22 +0000 UTCThough, it must be acknowledged that Star Trek "goes there" sometimes.
Jovet
2023-11-24 23:52:47 +0000 UTCYes, it may be hard to get a hold of the stuff, but they had all they could ever study in Jameson's blood (and, now, medical records) so it's there, just waiting to be investigated forevermore.
Jovet
2023-11-24 23:51:46 +0000 UTCIt doesn't matter what it's a result of. His de-aging would have undone it.
Jovet
2023-11-24 23:49:36 +0000 UTCKirk did the same in Private little War so what a difference the 80’s vs 60’s diplomacy
Scarpad’s Domain
2023-11-24 23:23:23 +0000 UTCThat would have been funny if, at the end of the episode, you both sat in your chairs and agreed there’s nothing to discuss.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-11-24 23:19:26 +0000 UTCYeah this wasn't bad at all. Enjoyed it too!
PIG
2023-11-24 22:43:24 +0000 UTCWatching with you this wasn't as bad as I thought. I think those opening acts of overdone makeup and overdone old acting really sits in the forefront of the brain when looking back on it, overshadowing the intrigue and twists of the plot.
Nolan
2023-11-24 20:47:43 +0000 UTCI thought this was sort of implied when Crusher stated his disease caused his body to age more than his mind. You're right, they could have leaned into this further.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-11-24 20:47:27 +0000 UTCFor the record, put me in the "I enjoyed this episode" camp too. It definitely doesn't make me personally cringe as much as some season 1 episodes, and I can really excuse the makeup as being an unavoidable rush job. If the makeup had been as good as the Bones getup, I think even the old man performance would have been excused since it wouldn't be coming from a flapping Muppet face.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-24 20:20:31 +0000 UTCDon't worry guys, I'm with you, this episode is one of the highlights of S1. The makeup is passable, the twists and turns are great, and the guest actors performance is one of the best so far.
Michael Mannisto
2023-11-24 20:17:34 +0000 UTCThis might have been better received, had an older actor, in his early 50s say been cast as Jameson and de-aged back to his actual age for the finale which would have made better sense and more convincing.
Mark Chrisco
2023-11-24 19:27:42 +0000 UTCI wish they had brought it out in dialogue, but I'd have bought Jameson's far more decrepit appearance (and weird makeup) as being a result of his disease rather than his age. After all, he's only supposed to be 25 years older than Picard, and a full 50 years younger than Bones who looked far, far better.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-24 19:21:23 +0000 UTCSilvermane?
James Bottas
2023-11-24 18:56:42 +0000 UTCI really loved Alex's invisible beer can in this review. /edit: I'm not sure why there's so much dislike for this episode. I didn't remember anything about this one on rewatch, and besides the bad makeup and some minor overacting, I thought it was great. I was fully expecting to be trashing it right now but I'm happy that I was wrong.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-11-24 18:52:02 +0000 UTCClassic Target Audience! Always fun when you guys land on the far opposite side of the spectrum as the commenters, whether you're liking ones people hate or disliking ones people love lol. I kind of foresaw you guys liking this one, and I'm with you. Some 80s old man makeup that does not hold up in HD isn't enough to ruin the episode, not even close. The story with it's twists is good and the performances are good. Karnas not buying what's happened does go a bit long but this seems to be because the script really wanted the scar on Jameson's wrist to be the big moment.
James Bottas
2023-11-24 18:48:45 +0000 UTCThey did mention that it has a high mortality rate, so it more often kills the taker instead of de-aging them. On top of that, the alien race who has this miracle drug is said to be stingy with it and it's rare for anyone to be able to get their hands on it. I mostly agree with you, that this existing should have far reaching consequences for the Star Trek universe and it's odd that it doesn't.. but at least they did try to explain why it's not commonly used or known about
James Bottas
2023-11-24 18:37:04 +0000 UTCI disagree about the scar. That isn't a result of the natural aging process, so de-aging wouldn't remove it.
James Bottas
2023-11-24 18:31:17 +0000 UTCI agree totally, it’s going to be a very interesting end of season discussion.
Paul Rymer
2023-11-24 18:16:01 +0000 UTCThis episode always reminded me of a story arc in The Amazing Spiderman comic book back in the 1960's (ya, really showing my age here...) which itself was based on a book. A crime lord who was one of Spidey's antagonists was searching for and found a deaging fountain of youth formula, and then used it. It reversed his aging, alright....but it didn't stop until he was nothing left but a sperm and egg, and even those disintegrated. Anyway, this is not one of my liked episodes.
Monty Crawford
2023-11-24 18:02:53 +0000 UTCLet's keep the politics out of this. I suspect most of us are here to get away from that crap.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-24 17:27:26 +0000 UTCDon't worry about liking something we feel a bit more critical about. You guys elevate these episodes with your new perspective and you honestly make me enjoy these episodes more after seeing your discussion. (You did the same with several TOS episodes, like 'is there in truth no beauty, which I previously hadn't enjoyed, but later ended on my favorites list). Giving us a new point of view and letting us see what is great about these episodes is half the fun of watching you guys. Also.. oh yes the rest of the series is amazing :D However I also believe you are really going to enjoy the 2nd half of season 1. There's some great stuff in there still. I am already looking forward to your Top 10 list and predict most of them will be of the 2nd half of the season.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-24 17:22:09 +0000 UTCRegarding Carnas' disbelief is mirrored today in politics from my point of view.
Kelly Stith
2023-11-24 17:01:41 +0000 UTCI always liked the love story between Mark and Annie. Marsha Hunt was the oldest surviving ST performer at the time of her death in 2022 at the age of 104.
KatWithAttitude
2023-11-24 16:30:41 +0000 UTC1:04:36 "Is anyone gonna follow up on this de-aging stuff?" The one issue I have in Star Trek, and TNG in general, is the introduction of what should be societal-changing concepts and technology that have zero consequences or effect down the road. The de-aging compound is a very good, and early example of this. It would take years of study, but they obviously have the 24th century technological means to analyze and understand how the stuff works which would revolutionize people's life spans. Even transporters are tech that have the same gravity of impact. But, plot armor is strong.
Jovet
2023-11-24 16:27:12 +0000 UTCWell we have to add a one off guest appearance this update to the love score. Tosha - 3 Riker - 2 Data - 1 Troi - 1 Adm Jameson - 1 (or maybe many) Not sure how many blue pills that was but he turned into a frisky 80+ year old before a boorish controlling 30ish year old. Wonder which the wife preferred.
Prof Moff
2023-11-24 16:26:55 +0000 UTC1:00:30 I don't think the aging makeup was terrible. It was obvious at what it was, but the only bad thing about that is foreshadowing what is to come (as Josh did).
Jovet
2023-11-24 16:21:04 +0000 UTCJosh & Alex, I always respect your opinions and enjoy your discussions of TNG, but.....BUT....I don't agree in the main so far. This does not invalidate what you feel and think about the episodes, nor does it mean I am in the right. It's all about a matter of perspective.......hmmmm, that sounds like a good title for an episode.
Numinous2019
2023-11-24 16:18:24 +0000 UTC37:00 The last act in this one is sooo cringe. 55:35 The acting was pretty good. But the behavior of the characters, especially Karnas, was very cliché and dumb. And that scar would have been totally undone by the deaging compound. And then the moment Jameson is dead, Karnas becomes a big ol' softy... Nope, not buying it. Don't really like this one.
Jovet
2023-11-24 15:56:34 +0000 UTCJosh for the win! Calling it early! LOL!
Jovet
2023-11-24 15:22:22 +0000 UTCThumbnail looks like Bones
AzoriusMage
2023-11-24 15:07:55 +0000 UTCToo short a season, but this episode was too long :p It's one of the weaker ones this season.
Bret Kay
2023-11-24 15:05:25 +0000 UTC
