UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S1E13 - Datalore
Added 2023-11-16 16:31:02 +0000 UTC
Comments
This episode has a few flaws, little things like having Data use a contraction right after they got rid of Lore when that was supposed to be something that separated them, but overall it's one of S1's better offerings. Spiner had been figuring out his performance as Data bit by bit leading up to this episode, and bringing in an evil twin I think helped hammer out even more of those details by contrasting between the 2. The contractions thing is a retcon of the past 12 eps for sure, but better now than later in the show. We also get a better idea of what Data is like on the inside, and learn of his "off switch". Lore is pretty menacing in this episode. That turbolift scene, and him threatening Wesley and Dr. Crusher in the cargo bay, and to a lesser extent the scene where he kicks Data, those scenes scared the shit out of me as a kid. Knowing how strong Data and Lore are, I don't want to thing about the kind of damage that punch did to Worf. For him to show that level of pain, Lore probably broke his sternum or something. Certainly "shut up, Wesley" is a classic meme this episode spawned, but they did kind of make him a punching bag(figuratively) in this episode. Yeah, kind of arrogant of him to be like "you got a lot to learn about being on the bridge, mister" while he's an ACTING ensign, and he could have brought his concerns about Lore impersonating Data to Picard or Riker in a smarter way. I must say Ron Jones score is excellent in this episode, though it does work to telegraph that Lore is going to be evil. Still, very memorable. Picard's reference to their computer upgrade was a nice bit of foreshadowing for 1x15. All in all, a strong entry for S1 and a perfect example of why skipping the season would have been a terrible idea.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-21 07:37:11 +0000 UTCWorf was pretty much the Big Show of TNG. Whenever a new bad guy shows up they show them as bad asses by beating up the Klingon.
Travis Boyle
2023-11-23 17:43:14 +0000 UTCSeason 1 of TNG isn't nearly as bad as people generally say. And there is good stuff throughout. There's some stuff that hasn't aged well, compared to later seasons, but the show did not do a bad job of getting its legs under it.
Jovet
2023-11-22 07:03:20 +0000 UTCYou gentlemen are kinda talking over a lot of important exposition...
Jovet
2023-11-22 06:24:06 +0000 UTCThat early conversation with Lorw about him craving knowledge, all knowledge from thousands.. makes me think he could have been the origin of you know who.. you know they?
Philbot
2023-11-21 09:57:42 +0000 UTCI think this episode is stupid because everyone is kind of an idiot in it they all fall for Lore’s lies. His obvious lies, he’s not a good liar he just bullshits his way through things and everybody believes it.
Philbot
2023-11-21 09:55:25 +0000 UTCthey did a good job with recent star treks to explain why they are so awkward but until then, at the time, it made no sense
Castanea
2023-11-19 00:21:55 +0000 UTCThe words. Data = facts. Lore = myth. It took me like 30 years to realize this, lol!
Jef Etters
2023-11-18 20:31:00 +0000 UTC@Target Audience Gene didn't insert Wesley into the story because he though of himself as perfect. Majel AND Wheaton talk about this often: He wanted Wesley as the character because it's who he WANTED to be: He wanted to be a young boy again who gets to explore this better world that Gene wishes he could live in. It had nothing to do with thinking of himself as a boy-wonder.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-18 15:56:08 +0000 UTCI have often wondered if the crystaline entity was inspired by the Marvel comics character Galactus. Galactus was introduced in the mid 1960's as a planet eater...eating the life force of an entire planet.
Monty Crawford
2023-11-18 02:58:26 +0000 UTCSpiner does such a great job with Data (in later seasons) that it really hurts me to watch him over-act when playing any other character in TNG (I haven't seen Enterprise). I understand those other roles would have been like a holiday for him from playing such a lower key personality. However, Spiner imbued Data with such integrity and essential sympathy that it is so jarring to see him go over the top.
Numinous2019
2023-11-17 20:37:30 +0000 UTCGo back to the first moments when we saw Wesley and he hadn't even had dialogue yet and the response just to seeing him was "Oh God, look who it is". It's baked in before the writing even gets a chance to show itself. It's not the writing.
Ken R
2023-11-17 20:33:00 +0000 UTCData was using contractions all the time literally right up until this episode.
James H
2023-11-17 18:31:14 +0000 UTCWell, I guess I can’t blame you for that “minor” spoiler. Hehe. Honestly, the first 2 seasons are good. It was just the tone and style change in S3 that made it almost a differrnt show. Plus the stories became more sophisticated.
Chris S.
2023-11-17 16:10:28 +0000 UTCThis IS closest to TOS. TNG becomes a different show starting in season 3, which we obviously see the style and tone change. Edward R. Brown, the cinematographer for the first 2 seasons, and retired when Marvin Rush took over as DOP, and instead of the harder lighting at times, Rush gave it a bit more even lighting. My favorite season of the entire series is 3. Perfect blend of plot and character, and almost every episode (to me) was a hit. Plus, the music hadn’t been toned down yet, so it still had that “adventure and melodic” orchestral music. Ron Jones and and Jay Chattaway were the guys! Sorry, went on a side tangent lol.
Chris S.
2023-11-17 16:06:20 +0000 UTCI think Lore contacted the entity, but it too time for the entity to arrive. During that time, they disassembled Lore.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-11-17 15:08:53 +0000 UTCHere it just seems like they revert back to the first handful of episodes the way Wesley is treated. It's as if it takes place before they all grew to be impressed enough by him to make him an ensign.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-17 14:45:05 +0000 UTCAlso, Worf is often used to show off the power of some villain or alien. Like, "Oh wow he can even beat up Worf." It's not a spoiler to say Worf, like every other character, will grow over the seasons. Like characters on most TV shows, really.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-17 14:42:35 +0000 UTCEarly on they also lean really heavy on the not knowing about things from the past stuff, which I think doesn't make sense. Like how French is very obscure language. Weird stuff like that. Yes, it's hundreds of years ago, but we know a lot about life in the 1700s, for example. Plus, moving into the future doesn't mean old traditions or technology are completely phased out forever. People today restore Model T cars, or use old vintage stoves, etc, sometimes as a novelty. Later series tended to toss in more older references, or have some characters show interest in older things as collectors, or know a bit more about popular culture. Like, why wouldn't some critically acclaimed movies be remembered in the future if we can continue to be obsessed with the works of Shakespeare today?
Joe Concepts
2023-11-17 14:39:52 +0000 UTCYeah I think learning that Gene put in Wesley as a stand-in for himself is what made us change our opinions a bit.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-11-17 12:31:53 +0000 UTCOh now that’s a new one! Lol
WILLIAM NEW
2023-11-17 12:24:27 +0000 UTCWesley suffers two-fold in this episode -- super annoying, as he often can be, but worse, they have to make him look like the smart one by making the adults act stupid here. Just.. everyone is stupid here. Everyone's IQ and skepticism drops except for Wesley, and frankly, that's a good way to turn an audience against a character. That isn't Wesley's fault per se, but it's definitely a huge writing sin.
Ian Westcott
2023-11-17 07:29:20 +0000 UTCNice to see we got the budget for an actual transporter in the cargo bay, rather than just the X-Men logo on the floor. Alex reading out the dot, dot, dot: really making work out of my dramatic... PAUSE!
Nolan
2023-11-17 07:05:02 +0000 UTCIt sounds to me like the comments regarding Wesley are seeping into your reaction towards him. I had no idea until this place that Gene R's middle name was Wesley and that Wesley being perfect is actually GR's ego, or some eyeroll-worthy whatever. Wesley is just a nice kid, there is nothing to hate outside of the general resentment of inserting kids into a story for adults. Then again I will say forever Batman & Robin > Batman. In this episode nobody even apologized to the kid and it was his suspicion that set the ball in motion that saved the ship. He's a far more fleshed out and better written character than Yar, Worf and Troi. Is Ryker nice? Actually, is anyone written to be actively nice, even sweet, other than Wesley and Data? To me, those are the two that are fleshing out.
Ken R
2023-11-17 06:56:13 +0000 UTCDatalore: Not enough Brent Spiner.
StonyD
2023-11-17 01:39:19 +0000 UTCYeah he was sending his own fan mail LOL That's what got him sacked from coming back from what I remember.
StonyD
2023-11-17 01:36:13 +0000 UTCGood points!
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-11-17 01:27:47 +0000 UTC(In case someone comes along and takes me serious. It's the joke. I am not being serious.)
Steven Johnson
2023-11-17 00:47:32 +0000 UTCHi Guys, my reason for saying "it does not quite work" is for basically 3 things: 1) Spiner does a great job but he gives too much away to the audience in his performance as being an evil twin so that you have him pegged pretty much from the moment he first speaks, 2) the whole crystal entity thing was a big trope that didn't need to be there; they could've just had Lore run amok and try to takeover or destroy the Enterprise all on his own, 3) the poor use of Wesley in this episode as 'he's just a kid who knows nothing', as you both pointed out. As for Worf, not a good use of the character here. He has almost no lines and gets his ass kicked. Actually, you'll see Worf get his ass kicked a lot over the course of the series - basically he is great against Klingons and most humans, but nothing else. Worf was originally supposed to be just a recurring character and not an actual series regular - that came later as season 1 progressed.
Collin Freeman
2023-11-17 00:43:12 +0000 UTCShut up, Mike!
Steven Johnson
2023-11-16 23:57:50 +0000 UTCYa that idea has not aged well
Derek Orr
2023-11-16 23:46:00 +0000 UTCyup!!! And the whole handling of how they talk about Lore in the briefing room was bizarre , as was the whole im loyal to starfleet and you sir….like umm ya why would that change just because you found a long lost relative And the crew seriously thought a freaking android like data, needed to be explained to how there are 360 degrees in 2 different orientations etc 🙄
Derek Orr
2023-11-16 23:40:18 +0000 UTCThere is a lot of clunky weird dialogue and odd sounding descriptions about the federation and starfleet….its subtle at times but you can really feel that this was Roddenberry’s universe..bit more cerebral, limited conflict between characters, starfleet is very non military feeling, the federation is well established as a benign superpower that interacts with lots of non aligned species and planets. But it lacks the coherent geopolitical feel of later seasons with Klingon, romulan, cardasia etc
Derek Orr
2023-11-16 23:37:55 +0000 UTCThat dialog between Tasha and Picard on the bridge makes me cringe, and I agree with your assessment. I highly suspect Roddenberry's hand in those pieces of dialog. Gene was a great idea man, but his writing skills were often lacking, in my opinion.
Collin Freeman
2023-11-16 23:34:08 +0000 UTCHe said "Shut up, Will."
Mike Rogers
2023-11-16 23:24:32 +0000 UTCNo, that was him, Wil Wheaton talked about it.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-16 22:40:45 +0000 UTCWas he the one the show started receiving “fan letters” for before the episode even aired, or am I thinking of someone else?
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-16 22:26:19 +0000 UTCI really, really like Lore. He is extremely ambitious and overconfident and has the skills (both brawn and brain) to achieve what he wants. It's kind of sad in a way; had he not been so emotionally unstable a man with that kind of drive would have accomplished lots of great things. Spiner's performance is captivating and really helps sell the character so to speak.
Captain Proton
2023-11-16 22:14:27 +0000 UTCI remember reading a short interview in Starlog magazine with Biff Yeager who plays Engineer Argyle who was asking fans to communicate with the show runners if they would like him to remain in the role..he really wanted to stay…but alas..
WILLIAM NEW
2023-11-16 21:45:56 +0000 UTCI think Leonard Maizlish was edged out by the time Maurice Hurley took over as showrunner, so that'd have happened by now.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-16 20:54:18 +0000 UTCThe hallway was extended by backlit scenic art on the set. The hallway that extends in the distance was a painted flat.
Mike Rogers
2023-11-16 20:41:44 +0000 UTCI've never understood the bit about Season 1 & 2 being terrible. I never really heard that until I started seeing it on Internet forums years after the show ended. I think it's just one of those things that's become a thing that gets passed around and everyone just accepts. Seasons 1 & 2 are by far the closest to TOS in terms of storytelling and production. Season 3 on is good too, but the tone and production changes and there are a number of retcons. I'm glad you're getting to experience it blind :-)
Bret Kay
2023-11-16 20:21:33 +0000 UTCLore Will Return in TNG's: "A better Episode"
Justin DiBari
2023-11-16 19:59:21 +0000 UTCYou completely nailed it..I wonder if some of this has to do with scripts being rewritten by Roddenberry’s attorney?
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-16 19:25:46 +0000 UTCI think this episode reminds me that one sort of off-putting part of this season is some weird, awkward dialogue that sounds less natural than it becomes in later shows. Like the bit with Wesley and "Oh, if you were Lore you would've said 'I'm", or the "See, his twitch is still there." I also include that exchange where after Tasha questions Data a bit Picard says, "That was a very appropriate question." It sounds like he's talking to kids. It's just, again, awkward.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-16 19:10:26 +0000 UTCPeople seem o always want more of the same and that would be very tedious. I watched it when it first came out and loved every moment
AzoriusMage
2023-11-16 19:10:22 +0000 UTCThe strength of a long old-style network TV season is that even though there are "filler" episodes, you can still get small character moments that let you get to know them better. Even in a poor episode, you may get a conversation between Geordi and Data, or a joke from Worf that gives you some insight. You get to know them more than 8 episodes and done shows.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-16 19:05:54 +0000 UTCI agree. Most of the rest of season one is very good (with one notable exception IMHO) and season two is for the most part excellent.
Dan Krantz
2023-11-16 19:00:39 +0000 UTCSame with another franchise that starts with "Star".
KatWithAttitude
2023-11-16 19:00:27 +0000 UTCNot a spoiler for anything, but years later when Jonathan Frakes discussed moving into directing, he was so glad to be given a Data episode as his first assignment, because "Data episodes ALWAYS work", and I think we can credit a lot of that to Brent Spiner.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-16 18:44:24 +0000 UTCDefinitely can see here that having "evil Data" around kind of made the real Data more like the character he becomes.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-16 18:36:45 +0000 UTCThere was about 20 years of TOS before TNG came out. There were expectations at the time and it took awhile for the writers to write for these characters. When it gets good it gets great!
Stephen Wright
2023-11-16 18:22:22 +0000 UTCI agree, I’m rewatching slightly ahead of TTA and most of the rest of season 1 and season 2 so far is essential. Even some of the less well-regarded episodes have lines of dialogue or character moments that hint to long story arcs or character arcs expanded on later. Honestly the worst episodes are behind them now.
Paul Rymer
2023-11-16 18:21:41 +0000 UTCAh, Lore.. Lore! Any time they give Brent Spiner room to stretch, he delivers. What a fantastic talent. I stand by my comment. This is one of the better episodes this season, and it gives us a taste of the potential the show will develop down the line. "Are you prepared for the kind of death you've earned little man?" Also the "Shut up, Wesley!" Is one of our earliest TNG memes. Wil Wheaton was getting his panties in a bunch on Twitter because people kept saying it to him. .... So Patrick Stewart replied "Shut up, Wesley!"
Steven Johnson
2023-11-16 18:09:38 +0000 UTCThere are DEFINITELY a ton of episodes in the first two seasons you would NOT want to miss. Several more in season 1 and definitely a lot in season 2. I don't get why people tell you to skip them either. It's insane.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-16 18:08:15 +0000 UTCLore is scary as hell at the end in the cargo bay. Has some stone cold killer lines
James Bottas
2023-11-16 18:07:12 +0000 UTCThis is true!
Steven Johnson
2023-11-16 18:06:59 +0000 UTCI have seen this episode at least 50 times possibly 2 times that amount. To which, I have never noticed that throw away line at the end of the episode where Data says “I’m” Perhaps it was its location within the episode or just relaxing as the episode drew to close I wish I had noticed that years ago. Nice catch.
Thicketdweller
2023-11-16 18:06:43 +0000 UTCAccording to Memory Alpha (The Star Trek Wiki, stay away unless you want spoilers), Lore was originally planned to be a female android to provide a love interest for Data. Her job would have been to go out and repair dangerous situations. It was Brent Spiner who suggested the old "evil twin" concept be used instead.
KatWithAttitude
2023-11-16 18:05:55 +0000 UTCJust something to keep in mind, after this they pretty much do away with the idea that Data has actual organic components, settling for the idea that his mechanical functions simulate biological functions, such as a heart-like pump circulating lubricant, etc.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-16 17:40:29 +0000 UTC"You think you know better than the show" is the third law of being a Star Trek fan. You don't earn your fan badge until you talk about what they should have done.
Phillip Grischa
2023-11-16 17:10:20 +0000 UTCData was not built by Starfleet but they were Federation Citizens
Toysruskiddd
2023-11-16 17:07:04 +0000 UTCThe only returning villain in TOS was Mudd. Even Khan is only in one episode
Neill Shaughness
2023-11-16 16:56:26 +0000 UTCMid-season finale, fall finale, winter finale... The network executive who came up with those terms must've got a bonus for what used to just be the time when a show took a break on the holidays for a bunch of reruns.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-16 16:51:04 +0000 UTCReleased just in time to watch over my lunch! This is one of the keystone TNG episodes. A lot of key lore here (pun intended).
Ca$hWednesday
2023-11-16 16:49:55 +0000 UTC“I heard you know how to turn them on” Best line in the series.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-11-16 16:32:24 +0000 UTC
