PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG S1E13 - Datalore
Added 2023-11-12 13:44:21 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
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Comments
I love how they not only name-drop Issac Asimov but also go on to use the term 'Positronic Brain" in-universe with Asimov's blessing.
StealthMomo
2023-11-16 06:10:40 +0000 UTCGiven Data's and Lore's perfect precision, do you think Lore meant to seriously injure Doctor Crusher with the phaser, or this is just the sort of thing that he considers to be fun?
Ian Westcott
2023-11-15 21:58:14 +0000 UTCThis one was I have to say in my top 2 or 3 when I saw it in 1987-88. Lore was a nasty Villain, the most evil & nasty one up to this point I think! Your Reaction to this I believe will be Positive and maybe one of you will rank it in the top 3 like I did back then. Oh Boy, you will love this one I'm sure Alex! Data Lore has 2 meanings, a lot of lore from Data's past and Lore his Brother! Also, "Where's the Bad Episode?" Am I right guys? 😀🖖
Duane Chancey
2023-11-14 05:29:11 +0000 UTCMy guess is in filming the segments, they had Brent as Lore put the glass down, made sure it did not move as he did his take. And them they filmed Brent as Data with the glass on the table and before Data took the glass they moved the split screen border to Data's side.
Mike Rogers
2023-11-14 04:59:34 +0000 UTCHey Mike I have looked at that Toast Scene with Date and Lore a bunch of times and I can't figure it out either! If it was a cut there sure is no sign of it on screen. Maybe CGI like the Crystal Entity maybe? 🖖
Duane Chancey
2023-11-14 04:54:16 +0000 UTCTrue, there was another, I know which one you mean. But very very few CGI effects besides this one.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-13 17:31:07 +0000 UTCMaybe not the best episode just yet but starting to lay the groundwork and backstory for data as we've already been given some of Picard's.
Stephen Wright
2023-11-13 17:09:13 +0000 UTCI predict that Josh, and Alex will have diametrically opposed opinions of Lore. I also think that Lore’s attack of Worf has a big impact (No pun intended). On the limitations of Worf who Is a powerful Klingon and helps to define Data’s strengths and abilities without actually using Data himself. Lore’s amorality is evident, in his use and encouragement of the Crystaline Entity A creature whose CGI nature doesn’t do it justice in the original mastering and probably looks better in the 4k remaster but this is clearly one of the more alien life forms we ever see In Trek.
Thicketdweller
2023-11-13 04:26:05 +0000 UTCAgreed. The score is fire in this episode
James Bottas
2023-11-13 03:13:42 +0000 UTCWell, DataLore is one of the best for the 1st season. Brent Spiner does an amazing job here. It is a plot AND character episode that a lot of tension. The only criticism I would have, if any, would be that this episode should have been further in the series. Maybe toward the end of season 2. We’re just getting to know Data here, and it might have made more sense to see him develop more, and see him interact and learn. Then you can do this episode later, and have it more impactful.
Chris S.
2023-11-13 02:45:59 +0000 UTCI love this episode and the music score but what does bother me was the crew dismissing Wesley, it seemed so out of character. It also made the crew seem pretty dense. Of course it was the birth of the "Shut up, Wesley" meme that haunts Will Wheaton to this day. I love how when they unveiled the parts for Lore, his waist piece was discreetly turned so his butt was shown but not what would make him "Fully Functional". The crystalline entity was CGI in the original version and output in broadcast (standard) video resolution. So, for the remaster, it had to be entirely reworked. It copies the look of the original really well. The double Brent Spiner shot that amazed me the most then and now is the scene where Lore hands Data his spiked drink, Well, actually, Lore places the glass on the table and Data takes the glass in the same split screen shot. I have an idea how they did it, but am still amazed.
Mike Rogers
2023-11-13 02:41:49 +0000 UTCThere was more CGI as the series went on. I can think of one example in particular but it would be a spoiler.
Mike Rogers
2023-11-13 02:33:23 +0000 UTCData was one of my favorite characters from the beginning. Nice to see his background explored. A minor bit of joy when they finally explained the “heading X mark Y” formula we’ve heard so many times in Star Trek.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-11-13 02:14:12 +0000 UTCI remember really enjoying this episode when it aired. Data was finally developing as a character, and I liked the idea of an evil data (so to speak)
Crankygrandma
2023-11-13 00:02:58 +0000 UTCYes, what strikes me about rewatching these with the guys is that even this far into the first season, the Data we know and love still isn't fully formed yet. He's much more of a supporting-only character than I remember this early on.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-12 22:25:22 +0000 UTCYou guys love back story on characters. Does not get much more of a back story on Data than this
Prof Moff
2023-11-12 22:18:36 +0000 UTCUnlike most others I was never the biggest fan of Brent Spiner's acting in this episode, he overacts as Lore and that makes it way too obvious that he's evil and that he took Data's place. I would have preferred a bit more subtle acting but Spiner chose to do Dr. Evil.
Phillip Grischa
2023-11-12 20:22:08 +0000 UTCI know you guys are always interested in the original effects, so this is an interesting episode to mention. As we've brought up before, most of the original effects for this show looked quite good already, so when they were updated for the Blu-ray, the new effects that sometimes had to be created looked pretty much like the old ones and so you couldn't tell the difference in most cases (like you could with the redone effects in TOS, but the ships themselves being redone with CGI in TOS made that more obvious there). The crystalline entity in this episode is in my view one of those really noticeable changes. Even though all shots and angles and the design were carefully copied, the original entity looked somewhat rough because it was created with very primitive CGI, and looked low quality even back then (comparative to the other effects shots on the show), so having a modern CGI version, even one using the same design from the same angles, suddenly looks a lot better in that scene. Search Youtube for the video "Datalore - DVD vs. Blu-ray" for comparison shots if you are interested.
Michael Ducharme
2023-11-12 19:47:33 +0000 UTCThis episode (while still being good) would have benefited from being a little later in the first season, after the actors had a bit more of a chance to get 'into' the headspace of their roles.
Terrafan
2023-11-12 19:21:48 +0000 UTCJust here for "Shut up Wesley".
Ca$hWednesday
2023-11-12 18:50:32 +0000 UTCNot surprisingly, “Shut up Wesley!” is a quick way to get on Will Wheaton’s bad side.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-12 17:51:15 +0000 UTCI meant CGI shot
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-12 17:47:22 +0000 UTCThis is where they cement what TNG is all about. The characters. We got an episode with Deanna's backstory, we dug a little into Picard and Crusher in the Big Goodbye, and now we start getting into Data's backstory.
Nerd's Gold
2023-11-12 17:44:06 +0000 UTCA good episode for the development of Data, but other than that just kind of a retread of "The Enemy Within." An interesting sidebar; this is one of the very few times that TNG attempted using CGI for anything. The show normally used Models, blue screens and motion control for virtually all the visual effects, but for this episode they created the Crystalline entity entirely with CGI. It looked terrible back then and still does now.
Dan Krantz
2023-11-12 17:34:21 +0000 UTCMy only real issue with this episode is that Lore explains his "evil plan" to Data when he's deactivated. Bit hammy and doesn't feel like what an evil robot genius would bother doing. Minor nitpick though. Love Spiner getting to branch out (and getting "lore" for his character) and the highlight of Wesley getting told to shut up.
THE LORE!!!
2023-11-12 17:15:03 +0000 UTCAlex, not just lore about Data, but the ACTUAL Lore! I know I chuckled to myself everytime you said it cause of this. And uh... Star Trek presents as an enemy a... giant snowflake... well no one saw that aging poorly, how could they? 🙃 And holy smokes, the music cues this episode. Possibly the hardest the score ever goes in the next 3 series is that turbolift scene. There's other good score points, but this one just upped the brutalness.
Nolan
2023-11-12 16:33:18 +0000 UTCI honestly think how they treated Wesley in this episode is pretty inexcusable, it fell into the trope of They Never Trust The Kid instead of showing the respect they should have built up by this time and inadvertently gave the early TNG trolls a new rallying cry for the character they hated.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-12 16:20:29 +0000 UTCThis isn’t specifically about this episode, just wanted to say how I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the quality of most of season 1 so far. I *hate* the character of Lore but he is good to watch!
Paul Rymer
2023-11-12 16:16:14 +0000 UTCFun fact: Brent Spiner's body double for this episode was overly enthusiastic about playing Data and Lore as "robots." The rest of the cast and crew found his performance insufferable; as a result, this was the point when they really started to appreciate Spiner's talent as an actor.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-11-12 16:09:38 +0000 UTCI like this episode, but the later part would have worked better if it was revealed that the senior officers knew right away Lore was impersonating Data, and just didn't want Lore to know they were onto him, and that's why they kept shutting Wesley down. But there's at least one or two times it happens when Lore is nowhere around, so I guess it's not an act, and they just had a brief moment of baffling incompetence.
Jeff Cornell
2023-11-12 15:56:15 +0000 UTCMakes you kind of wonder what some of the other characters would do if they were confronted by a duplicate of themselves, doesn't it? Poor Wesley. Having all the answers and nobody listening to him.
KatWithAttitude
2023-11-12 15:19:35 +0000 UTCSince Alex loves lore so much, I predict he will like it. Kidding aside, this is a further showcase of Brent Spiner’s skill and craft as an actor. The episode does not entirely work, but it gives us a decent preview of themes and characters we will revisit throughout the rest of the series.
Collin Freeman
2023-11-12 15:06:39 +0000 UTC“Shut up Wesley” Yes, finally!!!
TalynStarburst
2023-11-12 14:59:02 +0000 UTCLore threatening Wesley is one of the most stone cold villain moments in all of Star Trek
Neill Shaughness
2023-11-12 14:49:46 +0000 UTCIn this episode you see the Data that we all know and love for the first time. This is the slow start of character episodes that will flesh out backgrounds and establish the characters as what they are in the rest of TNG. Brent Spiner really gives it his all here. The Crystaline Entity was the only major CGI show used in the show. Also... "Shut up Wesley!"
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-12 14:37:06 +0000 UTCAt first glance, the tired old “evil twin” trope…but Brent Spiner clearly has a blast hamming it up as Lore, and his enthusiasm makes the episode work!
tyranusfan
2023-11-12 13:58:52 +0000 UTCBrent Spiner has said that this episode really helped him find his groove as Data. By crafting the Lore character, he was able to contrast it and really find the personality of his main role.
Stuart Arbury
2023-11-12 13:56:22 +0000 UTCI really like Brent Spiner as Data (once the writing improves to serve him better), but.......Spiner overacts as every other character he plays in TNG.....or as an out of character Data. Maybe this is because it takes a toll on an actor to play an emotionless character and Spiner needed to make the most of any opportunity he got to as a kind of compensation/therapy to step out of the restrictions of the Data character. Or maybe it's because Spiner reverts to 'Ham' too easily?
Numinous2019
2023-11-12 13:52:00 +0000 UTCIn this episode we learn about some of the lore regarding Data, hence the title Datalore. We also learn he has an evil twin brother whose name escapes me at the moment. (just kidding)
Dion James Pitman
2023-11-12 13:47:23 +0000 UTCThis is an example of an episode from Season 1 where it immediately comes to mind when people say "There are no good episodes in Season 1." Datalore is one of my personal favorites from Season One. So many things are brought to our attention about one of our core characters here.
Steven Johnson
2023-11-12 13:46:59 +0000 UTC
