UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S1E9 - The Battle
Added 2023-11-01 13:00:18 +0000 UTCBe the first to own Target Audience merchandise - http://tee.pub/lic/xv4js4f_14U
Comments
I always found this one pretty solid, but not amazing. This is a much better showing for the ferengi than The Last Outpost. Bok was a reasonably good villain for the episode, and avenging the death of his son is a believable as a motivation. Kazago was great though, and I like the rapport he and Riker built, first officer to first officer, over the course of the episode. I can see the criticism of making Picard vulnerable/weak too often this early in the show. He just gave up and surrendered to Q in Farpoint, couldn't "hold his liquor" as well as Riker in Naked Now, has to go beg to get Tasha back after that, had a fairly passive response to his ship being drained of power and was ready to surrender to the ferengi in Last Outpost(he's French after all), got taken over by an alien and had to be rescued in Lonely Among Us, and almost loses his mind here. On the other hand, it makes you appreciate Picard more later on when the character shows considerably greater strength of character. I'm sure that wasn't planned, but it works as an arc. It's also a good episode to start building up Picard's backstory. We knew next to nothing about his past apart from having known Crusher's late husband. Now we know about his previous command and a battle tactic he invented. Fuckin Wesley with his "adults" line though. It's the little things that made the character so disliked IMO.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-19 10:03:01 +0000 UTCI kind of love the Constellation-class design. The four nacelles joined directly to a tiny saucer make it look like a super speedy but rickety little starship.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-02 17:22:12 +0000 UTCSolid episode. Again, realizing the first 2 seasons are plot oriented (for the most part) it is a good episode. C+ Maybe? I can deal with Troi’s one-liners because she’s hot lol. Marina Sirtis (who I’m happy to admit I got her autograph at a convention) is/ was a beautiful woman especially with the contacts. Off topic, I got Jeffrey Combs autograph and a selfie. Nicest guy in the world.
Chris S.
2023-11-02 15:16:37 +0000 UTCI found it very interesting, since zi haven’t seen this episode in a long time, how vulnerable Picard was in this episode. Especially the scenes with Beverly. “I just don’t know anymore! I just don’t know!” He was near tears and very confused. They were definitely back and forth on how to write Picard, and the other characters, but thats usually like any show in the 1st season.
Chris S.
2023-11-02 15:11:20 +0000 UTCI agree with that. Frankly, Symbiosis is one of my favorite episodes. Not going say any plot spoilers, but to me anyway, great plot
Chris S.
2023-11-02 15:05:38 +0000 UTCIf you look closely, Wesley says “Constitution Class”, but it was changed to “Constellation”, as I recall, for reasons of production model availability. I got this from one of the official Mike Okuda guide books on the technology. It may have been the Star Trek Chronology book.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-11-02 10:48:37 +0000 UTCThere was a good story here bogged down by bad direction. The only good bits were the Stargazer scenes, but the rest of it was drama free. It's really frustrating that the directors sap every last drop of drama out of every scene. There was a little bit borrowed from The Lights Of Zetar where Picard's brainwaves match exactly the emission from the Ferengi ship. If you watch the TOS scene where they discover this exact problem with Mira Romaine, they make sure it is presented in a serious dramatic way, and they let it sit with you for the scene. Here, in as undramatic a way as possible, Wesley discovers this off-camera, his mother and Troi get 10 seconds so they can't even sell the implication of what this all means, and then it is on to some scene on the bridge where Ryker asks how they know this. If they filmed the show with any kind of eye, he'd have been with Wesley in engineering when Wesley discovers it and explains the problem. Then give a moment for the cast to react to this development, throw in a bit of music, and cut to a commercial. 6/10 for the Airplane! style trauma voiceovers and the actual Stargazer reliving scenes.
Ken R
2023-11-02 03:16:19 +0000 UTCYou guys are too young to remember but this show hooked up with an instant coffee commercial to generate a minor meme before there really was an internet. https://youtu.be/mcMpJlYynBw?si=3WlyxrPyKxSLLtNz&t=17
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-02 01:54:08 +0000 UTCI think at first the "Picard staying on the bridge" thing just wasn't handled right. There's a number of scenes where he spends time basically yelling, "Riker, what's happening??" Later seasons have it work better, while still keeping the idea of Riker leading many of the away missions.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-02 01:24:30 +0000 UTCIronically, I watched this reaction while suffering from a headache. And no, it wasn't on purpose. And I am definitely looking forward to your reaction to one of next week's episodes.
KatWithAttitude
2023-11-02 01:21:17 +0000 UTCSeriously, Stewart really sells that pain. It struck me when the turbolift opens and he's just leaning in there. I was really empathizing there. And now that I feel better, back to the show!
Joe Concepts
2023-11-02 01:20:48 +0000 UTCIn regards to Picard's first name, just in case it isn't obvious: Jean-Luc is the French version of John-Lucas.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 23:39:05 +0000 UTCDon't worry, Troi does get better. They didn't quite know what to do with her in the first season.
tyranusfan
2023-11-01 23:32:23 +0000 UTCTroi, Data, and Picard were my least favorite characters in the 1st season and this episode shows some my reasons why for at least 2 of them. I got so sick of hearing Troi "feeling", especially when she did it across vast distances between the Enterprise and whoever was on the viewscreen. Picard came off as a dick at times and other times more of a wimp. The writers improved on these characters in season 2. Interesting speculation about Riker and Picard. Hmmmm.
Collin Freeman
2023-11-01 22:33:41 +0000 UTCThings slowly changed as Patrick Stewart began to complain about the Captain not being in the center of the action off the bridge.
Mark Chrisco
2023-11-01 21:45:40 +0000 UTCPicard's seeming weakness was a major topic among fans when this was first broadcast.
Mark Chrisco
2023-11-01 21:43:08 +0000 UTCI always imagined the event that ended Jack Crusher's life involved radiation of some sort, causing Picard to lose his hair.
Mark Chrisco
2023-11-01 21:40:00 +0000 UTCI'll make a prediction; by the time you get to the end of this season you won't have any problem coming up with your top ten lists, although I doubt any of the previous episodes will be on them. (With the possible exception of the pilot.) There are some excellent episodes coming up, also a couple of real duds, but overall the last half of the first season is quite good.
Dan Krantz
2023-11-01 21:25:22 +0000 UTCA lot of Season 1 and 2 get retconned later on in sometimes big ways. I don't want to point out too many things here as some will be spoilers, but there's a lot of details that haven't been nailed down yet or have and become very different from Season 3 on. At this point, they hadn't established Wesley's dad necessarily died on the Stargazer, just that it was some time when he and Beverly were serving with Picard.
Bret Kay
2023-11-01 20:54:08 +0000 UTCIs the next Ferengi episode in season 3? That's quite a statement about the rapid re-assessment of them if so.
Numinous2019
2023-11-01 20:41:19 +0000 UTCI never realised that was the reason for the design of Wesley's shirt. I owe the costume designer a mental apology.
Numinous2019
2023-11-01 20:39:32 +0000 UTCThe irony is that McCoy was actually openly racist towards Spock sometimes :D But yes, of course it shouldn't go into hostility, but disagreement and passionate points of view are needed. That's when Picard can shine as the mediator and the decision maker.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 19:41:06 +0000 UTCI never fully understood what Roddenberry meant by "no human conflict". Agreed, there should be nothing as stupid as Riker being prejudiced against Geordi for his skin color. However, good drama is created by conflict, and it would seem entirely reasonable for the dramatic tension in an episode come from Picard having to make a hard decision with his seniors officers split on which decision is best, and passionately arguing their cases.
Timothy Hennon
2023-11-01 19:33:35 +0000 UTCRegarding the Ferengi not being strong enough to be the regular "big bad", you weren't alone in feeling this; the show's writers felt it, too. And yes, the Romulans are still out there, but are laying awfully low and being very quiet at the moment. Over the run of TNG you'll see new races (and enemies) emerge at various threat levels given where the Federation is strength-wise.
Timothy Hennon
2023-11-01 19:26:02 +0000 UTCMarina herself has said, when Troi got cleavage she lost her brain.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-01 18:08:41 +0000 UTCShe was great in the pilot when she had stuff to do!
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-11-01 17:51:32 +0000 UTCwas just recently telling Andreas on the Discord that Heart of Glory is one of my faves too. Looking forward to that one
James Bottas
2023-11-01 17:49:40 +0000 UTCLol his beatnik sweater
James Bottas
2023-11-01 17:38:49 +0000 UTCMUCH better than the Pumpkin Nightmare sweater they had him in for a while.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 17:37:47 +0000 UTCLol just like TOS I always thought “In the future, beds will not be comfortable”.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-01 17:26:57 +0000 UTCNotice Wesley's new shirt now that he's an acting ensign? It has the strips of red, gold and blue across the top. All three colors of Starfleet officer uniforms, so this is a student's uniform since they don't know what field they'll get into yet.
James Bottas
2023-11-01 17:25:59 +0000 UTCFunny enough, DC Fontana’s original script for Encounter at Farpoint had Picard surrender the ship, and the crew captured and put to work as slave labor on the planet.. not even to distract from the “hostile” going after the saucer section as in the final episode. It’s odd that a writer like DC Fontana would make such a fundamental character error, because we would have never taken him seriously as Captain again. *For the record I am a huge Fontana fan, and know she got the absolute shaft on TNG.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-11-01 17:22:25 +0000 UTCEarly on the show really struggled with Troi and although she becomes significantly better I don't think they ever used Marina Sirtis to her full potential, she's actually a pretty good actress and it shows when they give her good material. Seeing Sirtis at conventions is a hoot, she has a very acerbic sense of humor and is not afraid to speak her mind.
Phillip Grischa
2023-11-01 17:15:00 +0000 UTCdiscord.gg/Ajdw2nTb3
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 17:14:12 +0000 UTCIt was a pretty thin blanket, but then again the climate control has got to be much better than even most upscale hotel rooms these days.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 17:13:16 +0000 UTCWhere is it?
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 17:10:22 +0000 UTCMy question is always “why don’t they take off their shoes before lying down?” I wouldn’t get any comfort while wearing shoes in bed.
Aramis Calcutt
2023-11-01 17:09:57 +0000 UTCRight, which is why i would think Wesley would have been pretty interested to know more about tge Stargazer, you know? Or some comment from Bev, who may have visited him on it at some point for all we know
Julie Carter
2023-11-01 17:06:22 +0000 UTCNon-canon, but in a novel concerning the Maxia events, Picard while abandoning ship set the Stargazer on a course to drift into the atmosphere of a gas giant, but due to a fluke it missed crashing into the planet and was spun off back into space.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 17:05:16 +0000 UTCGood episode for some Picard backstory, and for ironing out the Ferengi a bit after their horrible introduction. I too felt the dream sequence stuff aboard the Stargazer, as well as the conversations between Riker and the Ferengi first officer (who i can never remember the name of) were quite well done.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-11-01 17:05:14 +0000 UTCWhat's really interesting that I don't think I've seen as an opinion on the first season is your view that Picard is somewhat being diminished in favor of Riker as far as being a dynamic lead? I think that appearance definitely goes away as characters settle in but it's a new perspective I found interesting.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 16:50:31 +0000 UTCThat’s actually hilarious, but I hope you feel better soon
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-11-01 15:58:50 +0000 UTCThat would've added a different dynamic to the shows, and having a young female science genius on the show would have been a perfect Trek thing to do.
Joe Concepts
2023-11-01 15:53:50 +0000 UTCRegarding Picard coming off as almost weak, I think that's because Gene really didn't like the more military tone of Starfleet in the movies and wanted to very specifically get away from that in TNG, and he over-corrected. We've already had Picard surrender twice, once to Q in the very first episode, and once to the Ferengi in The Last Outpost. And as you mentioned, this is the second time in just a few episodes that Picard personally has been in a very vulnerable position. They strike a better balance after these early episodes. They figure out how to let Picard be the more peaceful and diplomatic captain (versus Kirk's more cowboyish tone) without making him look weak. And yes, Riker was definitely the backup "Kirk 2.0", so if audiences hated Picard they could write him out and have Riker take over.
Jeff Cornell
2023-11-01 15:51:37 +0000 UTCI've had a little headache today and thought, "Oh good, I'll just sit and watch some TNG!" I forgot this is the headache episode. It started making me feel worse. I think I'll watch later. :)
Joe Concepts
2023-11-01 15:50:40 +0000 UTCI have to say this assertion is contradicted somewhat by a season two episode.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 15:44:28 +0000 UTCIt was implied in the pilot, since Picard brought home Jack Crusher's body to his family.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-11-01 15:43:09 +0000 UTCYou need to come join us on the Discord man :)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 15:23:06 +0000 UTCFun fact, in early casting calls for TNG Wesley Crusher was instead Beverly's daughter Leslie
Julie Carter
2023-11-01 15:07:49 +0000 UTCYeah, her class name appears on a data chart as far back as 2293. Going by that, the Stargazer could easily be 50-60 years old by the time of this episode.
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 15:05:35 +0000 UTCThere are some very fun episodes coming up. One of my personal favorites is "Heart of Glory."
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 15:01:53 +0000 UTCI've always thought season 1 was at least superior to season 7. Season 1 at least has a lot of energy in it. Season 7 has a lot of... BOREDOM.
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 15:00:56 +0000 UTCIt remains amusing to me that in the course of this episode, it's never mentioned that Wesley's dad died serving on the Stargazer
Julie Carter
2023-11-01 15:00:42 +0000 UTCThey turn it into the equivalent of fuzzy dice, hanging over the view screen.
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 14:59:50 +0000 UTCMaybe Data pulled a Spock maneuver and went "we should keep it for study" 😂
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 14:53:44 +0000 UTCAs for Starfleet worrying about the Stargazer falling into enemy hands: That class of Starship was a rather old design, not like the new Enterprise, which is state of the art. So losing it wasn't such a huge deal. It was a class of ship more or less from Kirk's era, as the bridge design hints at. So there wasn't a huge priority on retrieving it.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 14:51:57 +0000 UTCEspecially the first season was suffering from the lead writer and Roddenberry not wanting any human conflict, because Roddenberry wanted to push the "perfect humanity" thing a bit too far. That limited the writer's ability to really come up with interesting stories that stick with you. That also led to a huge throughput of writers because they all left in frustration. That will definitely improve later on, because Roddenberry stepped back a bit and the lead writer left the show. However that being said, some of the responsible people on the show noticed that the first half of season 1 was suffering and were creating some more interesting plot lines for the second half. So even season 1 should improve from now on (with the occasional dud still)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 14:50:29 +0000 UTCPersonally I am finding that episodes I did’nt like as much years ago don’t seem as bad as true stinkers from later years I won’t be specific but out of 178 eps. I rank only 5 or 6 as stinkers. Sometimes they are ambitious and can’t achieve it. Others times they are lost those episode yield some of the best blooper reels.
Thicketdweller
2023-11-01 14:41:23 +0000 UTCAh nice. Probably a good idea to destroy it anyway
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-11-01 14:32:33 +0000 UTCThey said the smaller sphere on the Enterprise was just an amplifier. So it was useless without the main sphere.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-11-01 14:31:12 +0000 UTCOh... Great. Merch. Sell outs. I guess i'll buy two.
Steven Johnson
2023-11-01 14:00:39 +0000 UTCLooking forward to this one! I bet it will be Josh's favorite episode so far 😉Happy November!
Bret Kay
2023-11-01 13:14:19 +0000 UTCYay new episode!
AzoriusMage
2023-11-01 13:01:48 +0000 UTC
