UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TNG S1E8 - Justice
Added 2023-10-27 13:17:56 +0000 UTC
Comments
I got a good laugh out of the scenario of the kid being embarrassed to be caught watching and the dad chasing him off to watch himself. I grew up is a pretty conservative house and this was one my parents didn't let me watch till I was maybe 8 or 9. Didn't end up being nearly as over sexualized as I would have thought based on that, but I do think the time all that stuff took from the episode was to it's detriment. I don't completely agree with Picard's sentiment at the end of the episode in a general sense, but "there can be no justice as long as laws are absolute" is still what I would mark as the first of Picard's memorable speeches/statements on law and/or ethics, and Stewart is starting to show his acting chops. I say I don't completely agree because I do think there are some laws which shouldn't be compromised on, and I do think there are certain offences that do warrant the death penalty, but only when guilt is proven with 100% certainty by hard evidence. There's wisdom in the idea that you structure society to steer people away from criminal behavior, and if that results in harsher sentences never being used because nobody is committing serious crimes, great, but I still think the laws should be on the books. Of course in the case of the Edo, the law is so extreme that it's impossible to justify. I expect there's some crime on Earth, but very little, and with laws nowhere near as draconian. I certainly don't think if the Edo changed their laws to a system of fines and prison sentences that made some sense in relation to the crime, they wouldn't turn into some violent, savage society. Sure, you're need more police, not just random enforcement zones coupled with relatively minor consequences even if you're caught. I do agree the ending falls a bit flat with them just slipping out with both the prime directive and the planet's laws being violated with no consequences. First, I wish there had been a line where Riker immediately offered to repair the damage and make material restitution, to show some responsibility beyond "whoops, our bad". I do think one of Picard's best scenes in the episode is when he tells Crusher he's just as scared for Wesley's life as she is, even if he doesn't show it. I would have the ending proceed much the same, though I would not have the Edo "god" release them after Picard says his line, and instead have it seem it's not going to release them. At this Picard will say something along the line of "as captain, I am responsible for the actions of my crew. Wesley's actions were a matter of clumsiness, not malice. To ask for a life in exchange for minor property damage is not reasonable. But, if you require a life, then I offer mine". This results in the Edo "god" speaking directly to those gathered asking why Picard would be willing to do this. He says that while he does not agree with the Edo laws, it's not his place to judge, and if the only way to save Wesley's life without violating the prime directive is to sacrifice himself, then he does so willingly. In response the entity tells Picard they are free to leave(the Edo won't argue with their god), and that they will consider his words, implying that legal reforms will follow. I think This ending would have worked a lot better. Lastly, the guy filling in for Worf at tactical. I dunno, he didn't seem to have the right disposition for the guy handling the ship's weapons. He'd probably work better as an engineer.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-06-19 00:24:22 +0000 UTCIt was a different... thirsty time... before the internet. "DAD! It's star trek. I just need the vcr to record it for my friends.... đł"
A G
2024-06-16 20:37:25 +0000 UTCBy the way âmanâ isnât woman or men, itâs mankind
Scarpadâs Domain
2023-11-02 00:52:29 +0000 UTCPicard speech swayed the god to let them go.
Scarpadâs Domain
2023-11-02 00:48:40 +0000 UTCThe mediator guys said specifically to Riker. If this zone were still in effect, you would be dead now The zones are in effect for undisclosed periods of time and may close before new crimes can be addressed
Thicketdweller
2023-10-30 18:37:02 +0000 UTCI'm not sure where you're seeing in the transcript that the zones are marked out. It says restricted areas are marked out. A restricted area can exist within a larger zone. Obviously the safest thing to do would be to never enter a restricted area in case it's part of the punishment zone that day. I don't imagine the entire punishment zone for that day was a couple of flower beds. Riker is clearly not standing beyond the fence when the mediator warned him he would've been in trouble if it was still in effect. But yeah, I don't care enough about this episode to debate it :)
Elizabeth N
2023-10-29 18:59:04 +0000 UTCI interpreted it to mean the zones are random each day (or time period), there is only one zone a day (or time period) and the mediators are only at one zone a day (or time period). So yes, they randomly move and yeah the concept is that you never know where or for how long a zone will appear so be on your best behavior. Of course like I said, this doesnât make sense because even in todayâs world criminals take risks. I imagine they would take risks if they knew the zone was at X place and they could steal at Y place quickly. Even if the cops had a magic machine to suddenly have a zone appear like a transporter and criminalâs didnât have to wait 10 minutes for them to set it up or take it down, all the criminals would have to do is wait till one came down, or commit a crime right next to one, like Riker literally does. The whole concept as stated in the dialogue makes no sense. Finally, you state there is nothing that states the zones themselves are marked out. Yes it is stated in the dialogue I copied above. No there is nothing else about any other rules. Thatâs the entire point of this novel concept. Iâm going to bow out of this convo out of respect because we clearly are not seeing the same thing in the transcript. Thank you.
Jef Etters
2023-10-29 18:43:50 +0000 UTCI think I may have interepreted your comments wrong. I thought you were suggesting that the fences themselves are moved to indicate that day's punishment zone, which of course, defeats the purpose. Of course, there are other rules which can be broken which don't involve crossing into restricted areas. There is nothing which states the zones themselves are marked out, possibly only the mediators know where a zone begins and ends. I'd assume it's the entire area surrouding the flower beds which is the punishment zone, and the flower beds are just one part of it. The mediator did say that if the zone was still in effect then Riker would also have been in trouble for assaulting them. Possibly the zone stops being in effect if someone is caught.
Elizabeth N
2023-10-29 18:37:30 +0000 UTCNo. The dialogue states that the zones are always marked and they are always random. There is nothing that states there are other marked zones. Thatâs the whole point. You canât risk a crime because you could suddenly be screwed when a zone appears. Iâm not saying it makes sense. But thatâs the premise. Think about it another way. If you were a scriptwriter, youâre not going to go out of your way to set up this premise and describe it, only to show the event happening at another white fence. The white fence shown is meant to be that dayâs danger zone. Thatâs just the way tv shows work. Not to mention, in the dialogue I copied above, they state Mediators are only needed at one spot each day. The Mediators were at the flower bed. This proves the flower bed is that dayâs danger zone.
Jef Etters
2023-10-29 16:56:59 +0000 UTCI think you've interepreted it differently. The white fence is intended to mark somewhere that is off limits, regardless of whether or not the punishment zone is in effect. People don't go past them because they don't want to 'risk execution'. If the fences were not permanent then the zone wouldn't be random, would it? Everyone would know where the punishment zone is just by looking. The dialogue clearly says the inhabitants don't know where it is. As you said, if the fences were only put out for danger zones, there's no deterrent to prevent law-breaking in other areas.
Elizabeth N
2023-10-29 16:38:14 +0000 UTCAnother great Christmas movie is for that Season and is a TV movie based upon a true story. It's "THE HOMECOMING: A CHRSTMAS STORY," and is the movie that inspired a 9-year long TV series called "The Waltons." This happened in Depression-era Virginia, and the village of Schuyler (pronounced SKY-ler), 29 miles south of real-life Charlottesville, Va.), is what is called "Walton's Mountain" in the movie and the series. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at this story, and if you choose to watch this one as well, remember that it actually happened to a real family with the last name Hamner. I have been to their town many times (it's a museum town dedicated to the Hamner family memory and the TV show), and have photos of me sitting on the front porch of their house - which still stands! (A small Star Trek connection: William Windom, who played Cmdr. Decker in TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine," is also in this movie.)
Rhett Coates
2023-10-29 16:31:29 +0000 UTC6Some here have already suggested "IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE" starring James Stewart. It's not necessarily a Christmas movie, but does take place at that time of year - and thus is often shown during the Season. That being said, IF YOU LIKE STAR TREK's way of telling a really good yarn - and then throwing a HUGE twist or two in the middle of it all - then THIS is the movie you two need - NEED - to see. BTW, the "making of" videos on YouTube reveal the Christmas scenes with lots and lots of snow were filmed at night during the HEAT of Summer time (about 90 to 100 degrees during filming, we're told!) where the town's sets were constructed. Frank Capra did astonishing work with the story, and it's good in both black and white (as filmed) and also in the colorized version. You choose which one you want to watch; I know what grabs me about it and makes we FEEL about life the way I do each and every time I watch it; I hope to witness how both of you react to seeing it for the first time if you haven't seen it already. I tear up tremendously in the JOY of being Given my life even when watching it in re-runs! I wont say more so as not to spoil it for you, but will note the capital "G" in Given, in the last sentence..................
Rhett Coates
2023-10-29 16:28:16 +0000 UTCNo the dialogue clearly states there is always a white fence at a random zone. There is no indication the flower zone was permanent, in fact the opposite is indicated, that it is the random zone for the day. Check Rivanâs last line here: RIVAN: Oh, we have very few. They are called Mediators. And they are needed only in one place each day. LIATOR: The punishment zone. An area that's selected for a period of time. TASHA: It's a completely random selection? LIATOR: No one but our Mediators know what place or for how long. We're very proud of the wisdom of our ancestors. No person ever knows where or when a zone will be. RIVAN: And so no one risks death. WORF: Death? RIVAN: by breaking any law. TASHA: Wait. Explain this. LIATOR: Only one punishment for any crime. WORF: Anyone who commits any crime in the punishment zone dies? LIATOR: The law is the law. Our peace is built on that. TASHA: Even a small thing? Such as ignoring the rule, keep off the grass? RIVAN: Then no one breaks that rule. Who wants to risk execution? And there's always a white wall or fence to remind anyone of a forbidden area like that.
Jef Etters
2023-10-29 16:05:11 +0000 UTCNot really, a lot of people would actually find that quite interesting. As for the Tillman plant, definitely on the to do list if I ever go to L.A. I don't drive and it looks like it is relatively accessible by public transit (orange line busway not too far away)
Dion James Pitman
2023-10-29 15:34:30 +0000 UTCThe dialogue is unclear, but I think the white fences are permanent fixtures indicating areas not to be disturbed (such as flowerbeds). The actual punishment zones are unknown to the populace, but no one goes beyond the white barriers because that would incur the death penalty if the punishment zone happened to be there at that time.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-29 15:27:50 +0000 UTCThe idea that this system of Justice would be a deterrent is completely ridiculous since any time there is a danger zone, there is a white fence. Therefore, the opposite of a deterrent would occur. The citizens would have a license to commit crimes constantly anywhere they didnât see a clearly marked fence. Even the cops stood there and let Riker assault them standing next to it. This is a faulty premise and makes the episode very hard to take seriously.
Jef Etters
2023-10-29 13:54:35 +0000 UTCI think the PD got redefined behind the scenes at some point after this. To this point, backward, it seemed there were *some* metrics that had to be met for first contact, but not necessarily "warp drive." For example in "Taste of Armageddon" neither species is warp capable, but they're still being offered the opportunity to joint the Federation.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-29 02:28:47 +0000 UTCStart your computations... For time warp.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-29 02:24:09 +0000 UTCThis is one of the things that stand out as one of the strangest parts of this season, seeing the weird engineering situation. Note that in "Where No One Has Gone Before" Riker refers to Argyle as "one of our chief engineers."
Joe Concepts
2023-10-29 01:15:34 +0000 UTCHahaha
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-10-29 00:41:59 +0000 UTCSo, what's the Patreon level I need to subscribe to where you have made it to the latter half of Season Two? ; )
StonyD
2023-10-28 21:37:40 +0000 UTCBack in the aughts, are used to live in Van Nuys and commuted to Encino so I went by that spot every day. I never thought about it for this episode though because it was used so much better and more effectively in some future installments of Star Trek. Itâs a great place to grab a Subway sandwich and eat there. I could write a book about Star Trek locations Iâve picnicked at over the years. God, how unspeakably dull.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-10-28 21:16:16 +0000 UTCSince you guys have repeatedly wondered about the details of the Prime Directive, here is the actual, canonical text of the first two sections of the form of the Directive in effect at a time 19 years after TNG Season 1, as it appears on a computer display later in the franchise. "Section 1: Starfleet crew will obey the following with any civilization that has not achieved a commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1. a) No identification of self or mission. b) No interference with the social, cultural, or technological development of said planet. c) No reference to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations. d) The exception to this is if said society has already been exposed to the concepts listed herein. However, in that instance, section 2 applies. Section 2: If said species has achieved the commensurate level of technological and/or societal development as described in Appendix 1, or has been exposed to the concepts listed in section 1, no Starfleet crew person will engage with said society or species without first gathering extensive information on the specific traditions, laws, and culture of that species civilization. Then Starfleet crew will obey the following. a) If engaged with diplomatic relations with said culture, will stay within the confines of said culture's restrictions. b) No interference with the social development of said planet." Items a), b) and c) in Section 1 are paraphrased from dialogue in "Bread and Circuses." Although this text does not specify the level of development described in Appendix 1, references throughout the Star Trek franchise indicate that it refers primarily to the development of warp drive. An alternate text of General Order #1 (i.e., the Prime Directive) was featured on a prop for a scene that takes place in Captain Kirk's era, but in an alternate timeline, not the timeline depicted in TOS. It is unknown whether the prop was visible on screen and therefore whether the text is to be considered canonical: "As the rights of each sentient species to live in accordance with the normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate the Prime Directive even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation." The reference to "normal and healthy development" echoes Kirk's reasoning for his societal interference in TOS episodes such as "The Apple," and may imply that the Prime Directive was more lenient in Kirk's time than in Picard's. However, even if this alternate text is canonical, it comes from an alternate timeline version of Kirk's era, not from the familiar version.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:59:31 +0000 UTCI think it was Wil Wheaton who joked that Wesley's "long and thick" line was a reference to something Worf has.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:50:59 +0000 UTCMy thoughts exactly, David.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:47:17 +0000 UTCI know it's a spoiler to mention things that don't happen, but I don't think it's a terrible spoiler to say that the show doesn't take long to drop the idea of Geordi "getting a real look" at things by looking out the window.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:46:47 +0000 UTCIt may have been that he was unfamiliar with the phrase "When in Rome," not with Rome itself, and didn't understand why Tasha was mentioning Rome.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:44:31 +0000 UTCTasha's sex-positivity shows how far she's come in moving beyond her past.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:42:52 +0000 UTCI apologize for my negativity in my Patron Takes comment (which, fortunately, you didn't use, and no one liked it, either). The episode is much better than I remembered, although I'm still dissatisfied with the ending -- Picard just goes ahead and breaks the Prime Directive with no real consequences. Much of what happens in the last act that Josh said is what he's hoping to see from TNG is what TNG becomes as it goes on -- Josh has a lot to look forward to.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-28 15:38:25 +0000 UTCThe Phrase you were reaching for was: Diplomatic Immunity A phrase to be forever burned into your consciousness by the movie Lethal Weapon 2
Thicketdweller
2023-10-28 09:12:37 +0000 UTCNext thought relates To the Edo in the Observation Lounge Picard Calls for the Transporter and there is a long delay. I donât recognize that Chiefs voice and donât recall him again. It occurs to me that Picard is still, rounding out his crew, Like C. E. MacDuggle in the naked now she couldnâât cut it against Wesley, She is gone never to be seen again probably shuffled off when they met up with the fearless, and we got C. E. Argyle, who also appears deficient . So, Iâm curious how many transporter chiefs and Chief engineers we go through as Picard picks a crew he has confidence in? I would be interested in your observation on personnel changes as you notice.
Thicketdweller
2023-10-28 07:50:32 +0000 UTCI am not sure if it was Alex, or Josh who commented on the 24 inch model of the Galileo 7 shuttle craft on display with the other models. (Being blind havenât worked out your voices yet, or consistently) Production Assistant John Dwyer (might have misspelled that) Found the original shooting model of Galileo in a storage closet badly damaged at the beginning of of TNG Wasnât sure what it was and took it to Michael Okuda who recognized it immediately restored it as best he could (one side was to badly damaged.). And placed briefly in the observation lounge, which restricted camera use on set. Then Later moved it to a fix position in Commander Rykers room. The original model was thought to have been lost stolen or destroyed until J D. Found it.
Thicketdweller
2023-10-28 07:35:13 +0000 UTCYou noted that at the end of the scene, Picard left Data in charge of the ship. As far as I know this is the first time in camera Data has been put in charge. However, as 3rd in command he has 3rd shift watch on the bridge and has likely already been in charge of the bridge before off camera Nice catch this is one my favorite episode of the early TNG. And I missed that for 36 years
Thicketdweller
2023-10-28 07:17:54 +0000 UTCI'm okay with the idea of us moving beyond capital punishment and seeing that as a forward thinking idea. I don't WHOLESALE agree with it, after having first hand encounters with the corruption that can overtake our legal system, and how that could lead to innocent people being executed. My biggest issue with this era, and honestly it gets worse later on, is the way things like the Prime Directive often get laid out in very extreme dogmatic ways. In TOS it seemed very sober and measured. They considered whether a situation was a violation, or whether a situation was worthy of violation of the PD. That to me seems a more reasonable approach.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-28 06:54:09 +0000 UTCPicardâs voice so his id
AzoriusMage
2023-10-28 06:47:37 +0000 UTCI feel like thereâs an issue to execute a stranger, a visitor to your world. Could you imagine us doing it to some foreign vacationer?
Philbot
2023-10-28 06:01:37 +0000 UTCThis episode is mostly just breadcrumbs. Sprinkling the PD info here and there/ Actually Alex, regarding your wondering about Patrick Stewart not wanting to be Kirk-like, when a new writer comes on at a later point, he is introduced to the cast as they are working on his episode and when he was introduced to Patrick Stewart, apparently Patrick gave him some advice: "The Captain doesn't do enough fighting or F#^$ing."
Nolan
2023-10-28 05:53:02 +0000 UTCI gotta say this - Josh & Alex your reaction to that Reveal on the Planet with the Eloi...I mean Edo running around in those Outfits was Too funny! Great Custom running everywhere, and in those outfits. Josh from that grin you seemed to me to enjoy this one from the beginning, Alex also. I bet if this had been an HBO series at the time Roddenberry would've flipped the outfits of the men and women....as in Game of Thrones! LOL I did notice you guys seemed to have a lot less convo during this one and are watching in silence more than most eps. I could be wrong but it seemed that way. Still Batting almost 1000! đđ
Duane Chancey
2023-10-28 05:49:45 +0000 UTCAnd the female costars..I believe Gates and Marina wore at least partial wigs most of the series (funny since Gates real hair was exactly the same). The cast affectionately called Marina âolâ bunheadâ. As you know Troiâs âhairâ and outfits will get worse before they finally get better.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-28 05:44:54 +0000 UTCWhen Wesley said he was part of the decision I thought he was going to lay down his life for the rest of the crew. That would have been interesting. They could have killed him and then the God like creatures could have brought him back alive on thd Enterprise. Maybe not the best ending but better than what we got.
Carl Peterson
2023-10-28 05:38:52 +0000 UTCThe anti- death penalty stuff is pretty cringe to me. I roll my eyes at Picard speech. The God stuff too is pretty bad. All of it fits Rodenberryâs worldview but it is not half as intelligent as some people think it is. Roddenberry gave us a great show with some good and some very questionable philosophy. But in thd end thst makes it fun.
Carl Peterson
2023-10-28 05:36:14 +0000 UTCYes except I was not looking at the wig that much.
Carl Peterson
2023-10-28 05:30:31 +0000 UTCOkay episode especially for thd first year. Some good philosophical discussions and I liked how Captain Picard had to weigh his decision based upon being a captain and a friend. He could not just let Wesley die but he had to weigh thd options. He also had to fo the hard work of law and think through thd options logically but slso give tender responses to Beverly and show his own emotions. A better ending would have had more explanation on that conundrum. One must look at the letter and spirit of the law. There could have been a great speech by Picard about it. There was almost no real resolutions or even many responses to the philosophical questions with the ending we got. They might have been in a hurry to resolve the matter since they were running out of time for thd episode. They could have cut down some of the beginning. Way too long to get to the real problem. Way too many sex jokes. Or they could have made this a 2 parter but that would have been a bit much. I also hate whenever Star Trek talks about God. Way to modern for my tastes. The world moved away from that view after the 2 world wars. Okay episode but just okay because there were no resolutions. In fact a lot of thd issues that were raised as negatived are shown to be true. The federation does look at this planet now as backwards or just so primitive. They did just take Wesley and beam out. Not enough wss shown that the people thought Gox had let the crew go.
Carl Peterson
2023-10-28 05:29:51 +0000 UTCBut how did the chief know to beam her and not another person wearing a pon? I think they kind of skip over some dialogue that would help so the pace is better.
Carl Peterson
2023-10-28 05:16:00 +0000 UTCThis episode was weak and a watered down version of a TOS plot. The whole thing hinges on Picard/Kirk delivering a speech that is so logical, powerful, just and true, that the all-powerful god relents to the logic. Kirk would have a rousing, dramatic speech delivered with accompanying music, Picard got one sentence with no drama in his speech, Ryker added a footnote four words long, and the whole thing is resolved without any sort of journey from A to B in how they win god over. It's beige writing, it's as dramatically presented as faded wallpaper. So far the best episode was with the Traveler. 4/10
Ken R
2023-10-28 05:03:52 +0000 UTCTA: Apologies if you felt âcalled outâ by my comment, as someone indicated you might. It wasnât my intention. I really enjoy your reactions.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 04:31:00 +0000 UTCIâm not sure why you think I needed TA to âpop in and reply directly to me,â as you put it. To be honest, I didnât even think theyâd respond, and it wouldâve been fine if they didnât. They have a lot of things to manage. My question to them was really just rhetorical. Either way, Iâm leaving the matter here. Have a great weekend.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 04:29:15 +0000 UTCAnother one that I kind of enjoy, but it isn't one of the best. More of a guilty pleasure, sort of. And the first "Shut up Wesley" of the TNG era, and they don't even realize it yet.
KatWithAttitude
2023-10-28 04:13:12 +0000 UTCI'm not asking you or anyone to not criticize the show. By all means, share all that and we can all discuss, agree, disagree, great. But TA didn't pop in and reply directly to you with all the same reasons they already gave in the video just because you had some run of the mill criticisms. there was a tone of "calling them out" as if they were disingenuous or don't know what they're talking about or something. I'm sure that's not what you intended.. and I don't mean to offend you either, sorry if I did
James Bottas
2023-10-28 04:10:43 +0000 UTCRegarding Rome, I thought the same thing. But in fairness, the creators didnât know how Worf was going to evolve. âNuff said for now.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 04:08:19 +0000 UTCBingo.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 04:06:52 +0000 UTCJames, if youâre telling me I need to self-censor negative critiques â why on earth should I do that? I love storytelling and have opinions. If you canât stand to hear anything but unadulterated praise â well, thatâs unfortunate. Are we in middle school? I heard many Star Wars fans shriek, âTrue Star Wars fans donât complain and love all of it.â This regarding criticisms to 7-9. Yeah, as a writer and literature teacher, I wonât ever shut my brain off like that. And our fine TA hosts can be treated like the adults they are. I donât think a couple of sentences from me will wear them down.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 03:56:27 +0000 UTCYou have to give this episode credit for keeping alive the grand Star Trek tradition of making the female guest stars wear horrible wigs.
David Felgate
2023-10-28 03:50:18 +0000 UTCJames, I remember it. The âGodâ in orbit was the part that I forgot about. But the planet stuff, I remembered all of it.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 03:47:41 +0000 UTCThomas, that's amazing that you remember it so well considering you haven't watched it in almost 40 years. but c'mon, there's flashes of good Trek in there. why not give it another watch?
James Bottas
2023-10-28 03:45:28 +0000 UTCpains me to see TA's overall positivity towards the season seemingly being worn down by comments like this. all your reasonings were in the video, i feel you don't have to repeat yourselves -_-
James Bottas
2023-10-28 03:41:59 +0000 UTCDavid, this is both hilarious and surprisingly accurate.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-28 02:55:49 +0000 UTCIt is absolutely wish fulfillment on Roddenberry's part. He was always an open advocate for free love, meaning sex all the time and not limited to a single partner
FireBall_IA
2023-10-28 02:46:41 +0000 UTCIt had my favorite scene of the series thus far with Picard and Data, I enjoyed the on-location setting and the premise was ridiculous enough to get some laughs out of it. Low bar as I said.
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-10-28 02:21:53 +0000 UTCUgh. This episode. Planet Sex. That's what my friend and I called it back when it first came out. And I haven't seen it since. On purpose. Sorry to be sour about all these early episodes, but how can this be your favorite episode so far? The first half was poorly written and poorly directed. Drawn out, people running around half naked, making out... the story not advancing for far too long. The viewer getting bashed on the head with the same blather. It was cartoonish. Lots of broad strokes. Civilization of the Week, demonstrating One Thing (care-free running around and sexxing) , until the one Counter Thing (overly rigid law) makes its way into the story. Two extremes. Cartoony.
Tom Occhipinti
2023-10-28 02:03:41 +0000 UTCSeeing as how you guys are enjoying the first season so far...you are gonna love the rest. Season two really starts getting the mojo.
Monty Crawford
2023-10-27 23:43:15 +0000 UTCYou're right! But, the Edo do seem to be aware of life beyond their world.
Mark Chrisco
2023-10-27 23:34:04 +0000 UTCPlus the fact that by making contact (transporter and all) with a pre-warp civilization theyâre already violating the prime directive.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-27 23:27:03 +0000 UTCI think I like this even less than I remember from the first time I watched it. There are good interactions between characters in this, but the overall story is dumb. The whole episode was them repeating over and over how they can't violate the Prime Directive, the consequences would be dire, we can't violate the Prime Directive... and the solution? Oh, we'll just violate the Prime Directive.
Nerd's Gold
2023-10-27 23:11:37 +0000 UTCFunny, I saw it much like you when I first saw the episode. Now, I see the cringe. But you put me back in touch with my thoughts about my first viewing.
Mike Rogers
2023-10-27 21:04:26 +0000 UTCFrom the first time I saw this episode years ago, there were two obvious outs for Wesley, They could have used the Code of Honor tact by beaming a dying Wes up to be revived, allowing the Edo to have their "justice". Or, giving a more tragic ending would be one of the other youngsters taking the blame and being executed. A life lesson for all involved.
Mark Chrisco
2023-10-27 20:52:56 +0000 UTCI want to start a drinking game when one of the crew says " Wesley... the BOY?"
Mike Rogers
2023-10-27 20:19:36 +0000 UTCAt the time, TNG got a lot of flack for its over political correctness. Back then, I learned what political correctness was from seeing people criticize season 1 TNG.
Mike Rogers
2023-10-27 20:18:12 +0000 UTCI also did the same. I was right in the middle of eating breakfast. The timing was impeccable.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-27 19:05:32 +0000 UTCYeah well, it's a bigger cast than TOS AND they try to give everybody screen time. TOS only focused on the big three, and initially even mostly on Kirk and Spock. That gave them more screen time to develop those three. Doing that with a big cast for everybody just takes longer. One season is barely enough to really do something with everybody.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-10-27 19:04:06 +0000 UTCI see what you did there, David.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-27 19:02:52 +0000 UTCI feel that way about most of the characters in season 1, actually
Collin Freeman
2023-10-27 19:01:57 +0000 UTCTrue
Collin Freeman
2023-10-27 19:01:16 +0000 UTCYes, that's true.
Numinous2019
2023-10-27 18:58:43 +0000 UTCYeah, you're right in how you took my comment on objectivity (and my wondering if I lack it when it comes to TNG or Trek in general)... I've been watching Star Trek basically my whole life.. but I really haven't engaged in any discourse with an online community about it. And so when the poorly ranked episodes come around and they're just getting torn to shreds in the comments but all I really want to comment on is what I liked about it, I do sometimes feel like I'm missing a bone meant for critical thinking lol. I'm not even a very positive person! I tend to be quite negative! Just not about Star Trek ;)
James Bottas
2023-10-27 18:30:33 +0000 UTCWesley's "It's about this long and this thick" thing gets taken out of context all the time, by the way.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-27 18:19:45 +0000 UTCOkay, that "WOKE GARBAGE!" Right at the beginning made me spit my soda everywhere.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-27 18:01:54 +0000 UTCOh Boy! The episode where they visit Hitler's Orgey Planet
Justin DiBari
2023-10-27 17:51:34 +0000 UTCIronically the portrayal of these "brave new evolved humans" in Season 1 came off as Inhuman most of the time
Justin DiBari
2023-10-27 17:50:33 +0000 UTCI could tell you guys were digging it. You were locked in most of the runtime
James Bottas
2023-10-27 17:45:20 +0000 UTCAt least with Tasha, we'll get to see her grow beyond this type of episode with her character growth over the next several seasons.
David Crabtree
2023-10-27 16:55:55 +0000 UTCRoddenberry suddenly developed a revised idea of ST during the late 1970's/early 1980's, where humanity had overcome their weaknesses, especially their collective weaknesses. This is the basis for why the season 1 episodes have such thin plots. The characters also feel like cyphers for Roddenberry to propound on his new vision. The Ferengi intended as the contrast to the evolved humans, as well as many of the alien races encountered. It's a very limiting foundation and the thrown-together writing team struggled to find ways of working within Roddenberry's template. If TNG had arrived without the pop culture support of TOS, then I don't think the series would have been able to continue to season 3 without serious cost-cutting.
Numinous2019
2023-10-27 16:40:41 +0000 UTCSolid episode. AllegoryâŠ.Star Trek does it best! Thats what caused such a huge fanbase. The intelligence and philosophy behind many of the stories is unmatched.
Chris S.
2023-10-27 16:37:18 +0000 UTCThere's no reason Worf wouldn't know what Rome is...but we'll find that out later.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-10-27 16:27:35 +0000 UTCLoved Josh's helpless laughter at the Edo outfits, that was the appropriate response.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-10-27 16:24:11 +0000 UTCWhen I see Riker in this first season, there just... there's just something missing.
David Crabtree
2023-10-27 16:13:42 +0000 UTCI wasnât following TNG during season 1, but my sister was really into it, so I used to irritate her by calling Picard and Riker âthe bald guyâ and âthe real captain.â Good memories.
James H
2023-10-27 16:11:57 +0000 UTCDon't worry about Riker. All these characters will get their development and time to shine. Season 1 is simply rotating through the cast to focus a bit on everybody and give them all some development. Once everybody is well established in later seasons, it'll fell less like someone is being left out.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-10-27 16:05:10 +0000 UTCI think it is just an excuse to show how capable Geordi's vision is
AzoriusMage
2023-10-27 16:04:55 +0000 UTCHavenât rewatched this episode in 30 years but this is one I think of when people say they hate the first season. This isnât a bad episode just a bit of a boring one, but âthe away team gets into some stupid problem and then gets rescuedâ episodes are my least favorite unless itâs a vehicle for some character growth. This episode would have played better if Picard had debated the âgodâ ship instead of just oh they let us beam up so I guess we can leave. Talking about characters getting focus for trek moving forward since they want to give each actor something they usually alternate which character gets the bigger focus each episode. Rewatching all the episodes I do like to see the subtle character growth. Part of it is they havenât figured out what each characters role on the ship is so they keep trying things. They donât get a clear handle until the next season which is part of why this season annoys fans because so much stuff is against the norms that everyone got used to.
Jonathan
2023-10-27 15:46:22 +0000 UTCI like this episode for the most part because Star Trek at its best is always when it tackles tough social issues. Here we have capital punishment as the focus. I agree with Josh - this episode showed me there was hope for the series. Negatives: I dislike the dialog the writers gave Wesley - sounds like what 60-year men think kids would say, like in Lassie or Leave it to Beaver. Also, we have more of Picard being a dick at times, which is why I didn't start to like his character until the 2nd season. And having Tasha being a horn-dog I find to be distasteful considering she grew up around rape gangs. Horny Gene had to have his beautiful people running around half-naked and have sex at the drop of a hat (wish fulfillment?) Which was not what part of what the original writer John D. F. Black (TOS Naked Time writer) had in his story .
Collin Freeman
2023-10-27 15:37:19 +0000 UTCI'm not sure if it was ever explained, my my head canon (heh) is that somehow his brain works in tandem with the visor and its "him" that allows him to see better than the raw technology of the sensors can. *shrug*
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-27 15:33:52 +0000 UTCThat never made a lot of sense to me, if they miniaturize technology like that to work in the visor it should be trivial to have regular sized sensors that can do the same on the ship.
Phillip Grischa
2023-10-27 15:12:46 +0000 UTCOnce you get past the first half of the episode and into the part where Wesley is up for execution, it gives me similar vibes to A Taste of Armageddon, where the planet is in a simulated war and everyone calculated as a casualty has to step into a suicide booth. Though of course Kirk had absolutely no hesitation about wrecking the status quo of that planet.
Jeff Cornell
2023-10-27 15:09:16 +0000 UTCEven with the weird horniness, costumes, and dialogue in the first part of this episode, the ending really is what brings it down for me. It's the first real Prime Directive episode, and they just kind of ignore it and dip with no repercussions.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-27 15:08:54 +0000 UTCUpon rewatching this I actually liked it better than I remember. I still think the ending is weak though.
David Wayne Fox
2023-10-27 14:36:40 +0000 UTCHe put the pin on her so that the chief could lock on
AzoriusMage
2023-10-27 14:05:30 +0000 UTCCurious that Geordi's visor can see more than the sensors
AzoriusMage
2023-10-27 13:56:44 +0000 UTCNice, the first real horny Riker episode
AzoriusMage
2023-10-27 13:49:28 +0000 UTCMuch like Troi, my affection for Wesley has more to do with my love for the actor..I will say Wesley and Troi both get a lot more character growth through the series.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-27 13:47:09 +0000 UTCWesleyâs cringe inducing âthere are some games I donât know yetâ.. When youâre done with TNG if you get a chance to check out Will Wheatonâs take on some of these first season episodes, itâs so worth the time!
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-27 13:37:38 +0000 UTCOh dear. What a slog to get through.
Michael Nemo
2023-10-27 13:34:31 +0000 UTCI call this the "Wesley, get off my grass" episode. There's some interesting stuff here once you get over the ridiculousness of the crime. but there's also a lot of Wesley... for better or worse depending on whether you like or despise his character.
Ca$hWednesday
2023-10-27 13:24:19 +0000 UTCAnother episode I have almost no memory of it all. Just something about Wesley stepping on a flower or something and they want to chop his â off or something. It should be interesting to rewatch with you all. Looking forward to it.
Rich Cirivilleri
2023-10-27 13:20:27 +0000 UTCOne thing I'll say about this episode is that the Tillman Water Reclamation plant is an absolutely stunning location
Dion James Pitman
2023-10-27 13:19:53 +0000 UTC
