PATRON TAKES - Star Trek TNG S1E8 - Justice
Added 2023-10-22 14:02:00 +0000 UTCComment on this post your ‘takes’ on this episode and we will read a few in our discussion!
We love reading ALL of your takes so comment whatever and however you’d like! Just no future spoilers please. If you want your take to be read in the video, we are looking for one the following:
- A brief review (2-3 sentences) of why you like/dislike the episode
- A question for us about the episode
- A prediction of how you think we will react to a certain aspect of the episode
- A fun fact about the episode
We are watching this episode Monday so we won’t be reading the comments on this until then. If you have questions shoot us a message!
Comments
The original story idea was much better I think than what ended up being filmed. It didn't have all this nudity stuff and was more of a morality play. This trope of an "orgy planet" is something that Roddenberry tried to force in multiple times, previously this was the conception of Ilia's home planet of Delta IV from Star Trek The Motion Picture, which is why she had to give an "oath of celibacy". In "Justice", Roddenberry wanted to take it even further and suggest offscreen sex was happening everywhere, but thankfully, others had more sense and put a stop to that.
Michael Ducharme
2023-10-27 01:46:04 +0000 UTCNot a bad place to visit for a week, as long as you don’t fall into their vegetable garden.
Chris S.
2023-10-24 20:56:56 +0000 UTCIt was Gene’s baby, so he gets the say. But he did the same thing on TOS that he did on TNG. He checked out after season 1, and by 2, was not involved much. He could never finish anything he started.
Chris S.
2023-10-24 20:55:51 +0000 UTCI agree. I really like this one. Season 1and 2 have that TOS plot-oriented style. But I like that for what it is. Its just a great allegory for countries different cultures and laws. We might visit an exotic country, and shake hands with someone, not realizing touching them is an insult, and have to get out of that alive. Good episode.
Chris S.
2023-10-24 20:53:38 +0000 UTCThis Ep. wasn't too bad, the Edo kind of remind me of the Eloi of the movie Time Machine. I bet Gene Roddenberry wanted the Native male outfits to be on the Females instead...LOL. My question is do you guys think the young Edo girls outfit should have been a bit different than the Adult Females? It was a bit risky, they could have given her a sport bra. I mean She was the only one Bouncing all around when Running! The Picard resolution at the end was good and I don't think was Contrary to the Prime Directive. If Wesley had known or been told of the Law and Areas not to go into he would not have. And if he did then Picard would've had to Comply with the Directive. Once again I believe you 2 will be saying at the end of this..."Where is the Bad Ep". I'll ask this again since I missed your Live chat 😠. What is the Status of your P.O. Box?
Duane Chancey
2023-10-24 08:09:14 +0000 UTCGene Roddenberry’s VISION 😆
tyranusfan
2023-10-24 01:07:23 +0000 UTCThere were no barely clothed people and sex in the writer's original script. That was added by Gene which tells a lot about him.
Sam Langanke
2023-10-23 18:46:47 +0000 UTCI think Wesley's reaction isn't exactly right for a kid his age. BUT maybe make him just a year or two younger, I can see someone of that age who has no experience with sex becoming overwhelmed and kind of getting extra nervous in this case.
Joe Concepts
2023-10-23 14:33:43 +0000 UTCI have to say 7:43 am. “It’s Romulan Ale O’Clock somewhere” I enjoyed this episode when it aired and I still do, there seem to be a lot of exploration of the prime directive in this season. I liked the way that the societies caretaker has also robbed them of knowledge and industry Apparently someone build buildings and makes clothes although it appears that clothing is optional
Thicketdweller
2023-10-23 11:50:18 +0000 UTCFrom memory....this is the episode where Wesley says. "We're from Starfleet. We don't lie."
Numinous2019
2023-10-23 06:20:37 +0000 UTCWesley pushed sci-fan buttons because the whiz kid is a trope of usually bad sci-fi.
Mike Rogers
2023-10-23 04:20:57 +0000 UTCIt seemed like the teenagers got more to wear though.
Mike Rogers
2023-10-23 04:15:43 +0000 UTCThe cringe will be strong in this episode. You have a Gene R.'s idea of paradise, with scantly clad California types running around looking for action all the time. Oddly enough, it's the guys that seem more "exposed" with their "packages" highlighted by the outfits. Roddenberry wanted more skin than Paramount TV would allow. Then there is Wesley's "gee whiz is that girl trying to get her cooties on me?" Performance. The stupidity of the crew not asking about punishments. From their perspective, they should at least know Earth history where we had societies that would have extreme punishments for small crimes. And yeah... we have another god race. The ending speech from Picard is pretty good.
Mike Rogers
2023-10-23 04:13:34 +0000 UTCI actually think it's this episode contrasting "Code of Honor" that gets that plays into that earlier episodes perception. This time we have an alien species of young, naive, energetic, attractive and sexually free people who happen to be mostly white. Early TNG is weird man.
Nolan
2023-10-23 02:14:59 +0000 UTCGene Roddenberry's Utopian view of society: No one ever has to lift a finger to feed themselves, that's all taken care of by some benevolent thingy. The only care you have in the world is getting laid, as often as you can and by whomever you can. Not the worst episode of the first season, but close.
Dan Krantz
2023-10-23 00:01:48 +0000 UTCJohn D. F. Black, who wrote the first draft was the very first story editor for TOS. He was visiting Roddenberry early in the production when he described a story he had been nurturing for some time as a possible novel. Gene loved it and despite misgivings, sold the idea to Gene for TNG. To his disappointment, Roddenberry made massive revisions to Black's script into its present form. No wonder Black never returned to pen another script.
Mark Chrisco
2023-10-22 20:49:48 +0000 UTCEpisodes like this are the kind that make me realize how incapable of objectivity I am with TNG. I enjoy this episode. I like getting into some more Prime Directive dilemmas here and seeing how flawed it is. I like that trying to get info out of Data under stress can be challenging at this early point in his experience.
James Bottas
2023-10-22 20:36:19 +0000 UTCKlingons like it rough
James Bottas
2023-10-22 20:21:07 +0000 UTC"They make love at the drop of a hat." "Any hat."
KatWithAttitude
2023-10-22 20:10:59 +0000 UTCI thought this one to be a bit silly, about the only real thing I liked about it was the costumes on the female inhabitants of the planet. Camel toe city!!!
Monty Crawford
2023-10-22 19:53:56 +0000 UTCYeah. This one has Roddenberry's fingerprints all over it.
Collin Freeman
2023-10-22 19:40:50 +0000 UTCI only really disliked him in season 1. He gets better in subsequent seasons.
Collin Freeman
2023-10-22 19:40:19 +0000 UTCI found that idyllic planet creepy even before they were going to execute Wesley. I truly loathe this episode. Roddenberry had some amazing ideas and some disturbing ideas, and I’d put this episode in the disturbing idea pile.
Crankygrandma
2023-10-22 18:41:04 +0000 UTCIf you thought Roddenberry had a hand in adding the sex appeal and god aspects to this script you'd be right. 😉
Andreas Schmitt
2023-10-22 18:38:43 +0000 UTCFrom what I heard there was no God in the original Story, that was added in the rewrites along with the half naked appearance by roddenberry
Andreas Schmitt
2023-10-22 18:36:20 +0000 UTCHonestly I think Wesley gets confused with Boxey from BSG. He was always meant to be a prodigy with an aptitude for starships. Never understood the hate. He was a kid, yes, but not as precocious as other characters on other shows.
tyranusfan
2023-10-22 18:25:06 +0000 UTCThese early episodes of TNG suffer from both feeling like Roddenberry's influence is too dominant and (ironically) at the same time feeling like the scripts are being written by writers whose work is generically fitted to any 1980's SF/Fantasy show.
Numinous2019
2023-10-22 18:12:38 +0000 UTCTrivia to watch out for: Picard shows a woman a view of her planet from orbit. Tasha should have been removed from her post over her “oops, forgot to look up punishments” slip up. Other than that, “male cameltoe” is about all I have to add.
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-22 17:49:19 +0000 UTCLol, yes Wheaton was also less than thrilled that on a planet of “hey, let’s everybody get laid” people, his teenage boy character was like “let me show you how to do a cartwheel!”
Glenn Johnson Barnes
2023-10-22 17:43:57 +0000 UTCExactly, they are the legit low points for me. It’s one of the episodes that gives S1 its poor reputation.
Paul Rymer
2023-10-22 16:46:44 +0000 UTCThe enterprise crew just assumes everyone looks at law like humans do (even though humans do not really view law and justice the same). How can there not be someone to specialize in first contacts or new contacts? If there is someone, how can they possibly not know the penalties. I am no international expert but I'd think that important. Though it is like when Americans travel overseas and just assume they will be treated in foreign countries like they would in the states even when they break the laws of the country.
Prof Moff
2023-10-22 16:30:23 +0000 UTCLonely Among Us, I don't remember you. But Justice, ahhh, I never forget a face (or body). The Edo and Mr. Wesley, isn't it. I had hoped to never see your face again. I will say that what I liked about this episodes was TNG trying to tackle social issues in the way that TOS did, which is a big part of Star Trek. They just did it rather clumsily in this one.
Collin Freeman
2023-10-22 16:21:51 +0000 UTCHahahahah! Good one!
Collin Freeman
2023-10-22 16:20:32 +0000 UTCI bet the revealing outfits was Roddenberry's influence,
Collin Freeman
2023-10-22 16:19:49 +0000 UTCI feel like when trying to remember episodes, this one and the one before it are some I think of as the bad parts of this season. The next few I remember as being pretty good.
Joe Concepts
2023-10-22 15:59:16 +0000 UTCThis is one of those episodes which could've been an interesting examination of the ethics of the Prime Directive but fails because of how ridiculous it is. I just can't wait to see how you'll react to those outfits!
Elizabeth N
2023-10-22 15:55:54 +0000 UTCMy mom had gone to school with the writer of this episode. I got to talk on the phone with him about aspiring to become a professional television writer. I like the way the episode tackles concepts of an advanced civilization being perceived as a deity… the fright one of them has being in awe so close to her “god”.
Geoffrey Linehan
2023-10-22 15:31:28 +0000 UTCThis was your chance to be rid of that Wesley boy for good Picard! Why, why didn’t you take it!?
Gregory
2023-10-22 15:29:46 +0000 UTCJustice, the episode that teased Wesley's execution and didn't deliver, very disappointing.
Phillip Grischa
2023-10-22 15:27:28 +0000 UTCThis episode was brought to you by 8-Minute-Abs and Aerobics-R-Us.
Stuart Arbury
2023-10-22 15:22:50 +0000 UTCOne positive aspect of this episode, and like Code of Honor and many others, is the basic concept of Star Trek itself: to seek out STRANGE new worlds...... That is certainly what is found here, although the allegory explored (which is the premise for how 'Trek scripts are crafted by the writers) is, arguably, what line(s) can or should be crossed with disputes arise, and how far do we as a species take laws LITERALLY or IDEALLY? If that's what all this was written to explore, Picard's speech at the end might clue us into how our expectations and/or our life-precepts and beliefs can be challenged - or, like Star Trek likes to do, turn a moral dilemma right on its ear. Therefore: should violations of laws be judged on the individual incidents (intentions, motivations, lack thereof?, etc.), or should one overall law cover every violation to the letter, no matter the level or depth of said violation? Is there no gray between the black and white lines of "law"? Look back at TOS's and TAS's many moral dilemma stories. Did they make anyone reconsider their own ideas about certain topics explored in those stories, even in the slightest ways? If these notions make one sit back and ponder their own thoughts on this overall matter, then Star Trek episodes like "Justice" are a complete success., and are likely why they were chosen to be filmed by Paramount and those who created ST TNG. Now: despite how some of them ended up being shot and later perceived by the viewing audience, let's still SMILE that Gene Roddenberry & Co. chose these amazing stories to put on film: as Josh and Alex are now finding!
Rhett Coates
2023-10-22 15:14:51 +0000 UTCParamount was not happy at how much of this episode's budget went to body grease.
JD Nevesytrof
2023-10-22 15:14:19 +0000 UTCA godawful episode (literally!). "Code of Honor" was bad because it was racist; this is the first TNG episode which is bad for non-racial reasons. From the plot holes to the costumes to the treatment of Wesley as the Space Messiah who must be protected at any cost, even the violation of Starfleet's core principles, this episode stinks. A question: Were you hoping you had seen the last of the TOS-style "God" episodes? I predict that you will find this episode to be the answer to your repeated question, "Where are the bad episodes of Season 1?" Fun fact: Josh Clark, the actor who plays the relief tactical officer who announces the intruder alert, also played a recurring role on one of the later Star Trek series. Nothing in canon contradicts the possibility that Clark's character in this episode is the same person as his subsequent one.
Anthony Bernacchi
2023-10-22 15:05:43 +0000 UTCI think this episode, paired with Code of Honor, is where the "racist" perspective comes from. A planet of barbaric black people vs a planet of idyllic white people who live in orgiastic bliss. I have nothing else to say about this episode, except i'm with starfleet, and we don't lie. (One of Wheaton's "favorite" lines.)
Steven Johnson
2023-10-22 15:00:14 +0000 UTCGood. The Prime Directive, as depicted in this era, sucks.
Steven Johnson
2023-10-22 14:56:52 +0000 UTCThe first TNG episode to really lean into the Prime Directive…and Picard almost immediately violates it to save a main character!
tyranusfan
2023-10-22 14:51:21 +0000 UTCTOS liked to push the envelope with the most revealing costumes for women that the 1960s network censors would allow. In true 80s independent network fashion, this episode of TNG gave equal opportunity to all genders and all ages to the point where even the Traveler would have been creeped out...
David Wayne Fox
2023-10-22 14:47:38 +0000 UTCThe Edo's hideous outfits are the true violation of the Prime Directive.
THE LORE!!!
2023-10-22 14:29:34 +0000 UTCAh, the episode where the enterprise goes up against a small town HOA.
Neill Shaughness
2023-10-22 14:15:11 +0000 UTCThose outfits are awful
FireBall_IA
2023-10-22 14:12:18 +0000 UTC
