UNCUT REACTION - Star Trek TOS - The Tholian Web S3E9
Added 2023-02-26 16:51:27 +0000 UTCThey tried another Galileo Seven but made it super weird! Here is our full uncut reaction to The Tholian Web
There are plenty of interesting choices in this one, we are excited to hear your thoughts!
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Comments
This was one of those episodes I knew about as a kid but didn't see till a few years later. It sounded really cool, and at the time I was much more easily entertained, so anything new was fun pretty much. But today it's kind of a boring episode. Having Kirk missing for so much of the episode gave Spock and McCoy a lot to do, which was good. But ultimately it was clearly an episode pretty heavily built around it's effects, which of course half a century later are never going to be enough. It's alright, but nothing too special.
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-29 05:45:02 +0000 UTCIt makes me wonder about the ship in Immunity Syndrome(Valiant was it?) with the all vulcan crew. You'd think some, especially the captain would have joined earlier. I suppose it could be explained by having an entire vulcan crew transfer into starfleet
Timothy Nikiforovs
2024-04-28 08:53:50 +0000 UTC"WHO??" you mockingly say, pretending to be McCoy. Well, that's excusable bc to US, the viewers, the Tholians were a totally new race but the Enterprise crew all knew about Tholians, even if they'd never encountered them. The only clue in the episode to this fact is Spock's comment: "Renowned Tholian punctuality." I believe that, at this time in Trek lore, Tholians are rivals but not really enemies. They are mentioned at least once in future shows and may have later joined the Federation (idk 4 sure), and they make an appearance in an ep of ST: Enterprise which is the prequel series. Anything further may count as spoilers so I'll stop.
MertzRocks
2023-06-21 07:28:21 +0000 UTCThe next episode (10) is a wild one. It's alot of things. Boring is not one of them. Also historic.
Will Johns
2023-03-01 06:46:39 +0000 UTCI believe the reversal of Spock and McCoy's emotional roles were reversed specifically because of the space they were in. We got a bit of an explanation for the Defiant's crew going mad killing each other so Bones became more agressive and finally partially collapsed on the Bridge. To emphasize how it was affecting Spock they should've had him say he too was being affected but was fighting the effects. The outfit Uhura had changed to in her quarters was just a casual outfit or nightgown not a funeral dress as she wore her regular uniform at the service and was holding it in her hands as she had just changed her clothes. The Tholian Web has been listed numerous times as one of the overall top 10 episodes of the original series, I believe because of how cool the Tholians look but also the the last taped orders for Bones & Spock show after their initial rant that they both cared for Kirk but also heard how he sees each of them which neither had ever known why he liked both of them when each is very different from the other. They didn't want Jim to know they saw it because they wanted to keep what they saw to themselves and to keep their ongoing relationship without changing it as Jim would expect them to treat each other differently if they had. The budget to have truly alien or more than Spock on the show every week would've been too great for the time and cut into the existing budget for whstever alien races they would come across. That being said the upcoming animated series is something to get excited about because all barriers regarding having multiple aliens at any time or place including the ship will be gone.
Brad Barter
2023-03-01 00:08:18 +0000 UTCWouldn't have been so bad if they got the scale right he was tiny when next to Spock on the Bridge
AzoriusMage
2023-02-27 22:55:55 +0000 UTCMaybe all the alien budget got spent on Klingons? That boot polish is not cheap you know.
AzoriusMage
2023-02-27 22:53:34 +0000 UTCAnother good episode with some great character stuff, but Phantom Kirk drifting around the Enterprise looked embarrassingly bad even in the 70s. I guess the reduced budget and several episodes running over-schedule are finally showing. The original script called for force-field belts, but the special effects would have been too expensive to do, so they went with space suits instead. Roddenberry liked the idea of the belts, so they debut in the animated series.
deconstructionist66
2023-02-27 18:25:43 +0000 UTCCompletely agree with the nuances of Spock in command. Subtly tapping his emotions while maintaining his logical approach to rescuing Kirk. This episode requires closer attention to dialogue.
Charles Regazzi Jr
2023-02-27 09:13:20 +0000 UTCMy favorite episode of the season and maybe top 10 overall. The selling point for me is everyone interacting without Kirk and how they regard each other. Little things like Spock telling Chekov and Uhura their absence was keenly felt; that was his attempt at doing what he thinks he should be doing as Captain, and then McCoy saying if Scotty goes under that's it for any chance of survival, Spock then consulting with Scotty like an equal with expertise, then Bones completing the senior officer meeting with Scotty getting his usual drinking gag. Doesn't really remind me of Galileo as much as Naked Time and the way we visit the different crew members. Galileo was another great showcase for Scotty in that he knew to drain the phasers but Spock did not, but that episode was more about Spock's logic being the wrong thing at the wrong time due to his lack of people skills, but here he attempts people skills. You missed some dialogue that aired while you were discussing it, but Spock was not emotionless at all (listening to your comments now). This episode he is showing humanity where he can because he knows that is his job, which is why he is leading a mourning service, whereas in Galileo he had no time for such non-essential concerns. Here he knows stuff like that is essential.
Ken R
2023-02-27 04:18:54 +0000 UTCThe last joke falls flat. For me, the whole episode falls flat. Repeatedly builds up the tension, but never really pays off.
PFCoffey
2023-02-27 04:16:32 +0000 UTCKeep your comment about Leonard Nimoy and the spacesuit in mind. I won't say anything else until we get there... :D
tyranusfan
2023-02-27 02:22:01 +0000 UTCshort comment on this one.. it was better than ave, I liked it. I can't come up with a stupid comment this week, I am clearly in the parallel universe and cannot non-verbally overact. I mean the pleads from Kirk was some of the LOUDEST silent acting ever. Okay maybe 1 smart ass comment.
Prof Moff
2023-02-27 01:54:22 +0000 UTCThe very exotic Tholians are seen again in “Enterprise” . They require extreme temperatures to survive among other oddities. This episode was more of a study and test of the triad bonds.
Charles Regazzi Jr
2023-02-27 00:49:37 +0000 UTCThere may not have been any aliens in evidence on board (except Spock), but when part of the crew assembled for Spock's address, a number of races were represented and a large percentage of the group were women. This was quite progressive for a show produced in the 60s, and an intentional decision to show that racial divisions and inequality no longer existed in the 23rd century.
David Felgate
2023-02-26 23:43:22 +0000 UTCI never know whether to respond on YouTube or here haha. So I'll do both, so other patreons can maybe chime in: Some have criticized you for talking more over the dialog: I would not be as critical, however I do agree with some that you talking over a lot of dialog is a rather recent development. Early on you didn't do that. It started about a couple episodes into season 3 I think. Maybe it's because you feel more at home in the show and not trying to figure out what's going on anymore, and that makes you feel more comfortable with talking over some stuff. That being said however, I do agree with some of your criticisms. I remember back when I saw this episode for the first time and I was very disappointed that the very cool setup of the Tholians was never properly resolved. You did miss the reason why Kirk was at the location they got thrown to (he was caught in the transporter beam and pulled along with them), however that explanation was only given in a throwaway line. And that was indeed just bad writing. And your comment on "visual effect of the week" is absolutely correct IMO. To me it's not as bad, but I do recognize it. The "Day of the Dove" episode constantly showing the "alien" in the hallways had the same problem. These episodes relied to much on visual effects and tried to write a story around effects. And there are plenty of people complaining when modern shows or movies do that, so it's justified to criticize it here as well I think. Its a symptom of the same disease: relying on effects over good writing. In this old show it's a bit more understandable because all these visual effects were camera tricks and practical, CGI didn't exist, so some special effects people were probably really proud of having achieved such a cool effect. However that still doesn't excuse weak writing. Effects still need to serve the story, not the other way around. And unfortunately, while the Tholian web is one of the coolest effects of all of TOS, it served very little actual purpose here. And that left me disappointed with an episode I really loved otherwise. The Tholian Web is one of the most iconic episodes of TOS and that makes it especially sad that it fell a bit short at the end. In regards to Kirk, Spock and McCoy at the end... that wasn't supposed to be a joke, as others have said. They just didn't want Kirk to know that they had needed his orders to get along. They were ashamed of how much they had been bickering with each other before hearing them. His words caused them a lot of humility and they just didn't want to admit that. As for your comments about the side characters like Uhura not often having enough to do: That was actually even an issue among the cast. Especially Shatner saw the big three as the stars and the rest as basically little more than extras, while DeForest Kelley treated everybody equal, the southern gentleman he was. There's animosities to this day, and even depending on who directed, and who had more to say, the secondary cast needed to fight to get more to do, including the movies. However... most of them get plenty of stuff to do in the movies, even though the focus is still on the big three. To wrap it up: Maybe try to limit the talking over dialog a bit more, but while I can understand it's annoying to some people, so far I don't think you missed any major story points because of it. Whenever you did, it was because the story itself glanced over it or barely mentioned it, which was down to weaknesses in the writing. I have said it plenty of times: This show is episodic because there wasn't even VHS back then to record something. You could easily miss an episode. However that also means that people sometimes walked away from their TV set or someone came into the room for a couple seconds. People didn't sit in front of the TV quiet and listening constantly back then either. There was only one TV in the house, and usually families gathered to watch a show together. It's not like the kids had their own TVs in their room. Those things were expensive. So a TV show's writing needed to compensate for that. You talk, yes, but so would have plenty of families watching the show back then. So if that's enough to completely miss the plot, then the show made a mistake, because that indeed WAS the Target Audience back then ;)
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-26 23:28:44 +0000 UTCThe real life reason for few aliens is obviously budget. However later shows will also explore the in-universe reason a little bit more. Earth had its own Starfleet before they created the Federation together with several other planets. Initially all those other worlds had their own fleets and Starfleet being the one federation fleet only slowly became a thing. Initially the worlds were happy with a united Starfleet but not everybody was eager to join and serve aboard ships that has a majority human crew. Spock is in-fact the first Vulcan to ever join Starfleet. He won't be the last however, and over the years more and more alien fleets get abandoned and absorbed into Starfleet, with more and more aliens serving aboard. McCoy's attitude towards Vulcans is a bit extreme but not super uncommon. Small cultural differences between the species of the Federation are still a thing and still lead to small animosities. The federation was only about 100 years old at this point and the kind of full cooperation was still only a few generations old. By the time we hit TNG, the federation has grown a lot and it has all become much more harmonized, with everybody being completely used to working together. But in Kirk's time, the Federation was still pretty new. You can basically compare the established United States of the 20th century vs what it was in the 19th century.
Andreas Schmitt
2023-02-26 22:57:27 +0000 UTCOne of the shooting delays was caused by the environmental suits. To be polite it took a bit of time to get them off and on whenever the actors felt the call of nature. Freiberger used this as one excurse to fire Ralph Senensky.
Mark Chrisco
2023-02-26 22:26:32 +0000 UTCThis is 1 of my favorite episodes from season 3, along with The Enterprise Incident. And McCoy was in The Galileo Seven, but Alex is right, this episode plays better overall. I love the scenes between Spock and Bones in this episode. McCoy's reaction to Spock was somewhat out of character, but it showed McCoy cared about ALL of the lives on the Enterprise, not just one. The ending was rushed. The web doesn't end up playing much of any importance, which is a letdown considering the title of the episode - not much payoff, if any. There is an old Star Trek screen saver from the 1990's that had a Tholian web as one of the options - I had it on my first computer. I think the point of McCoy and Spock lying (Spock lying?) about not having heard Kirk's last orders was they did not want him to think they needed to hear his statements in order to get along and get the job done. They were trying to make Kirk feel like they could get along without him having to play referee even after he was gone.
Collin Freeman
2023-02-26 20:17:11 +0000 UTCI've never understood people who get upset at updating the visual style for this era in modern Trek. It was a cute throwback in 90s-era Trek when they showed the old 60s sets, but even then it was a bit of a stretch to have them co-existing with the then-current visual style as a genuine in-universe stylistic difference between the eras (as opposed to letting the audience dismiss it as just a difference in production quality). If people just don't like the specific style updates that are chosen, I can understand that. But people who take the attitude of "if the 2260s don't look like cheap cardboard it's a violation of canon" genuinely baffle me. Strange New Worlds does a good job I think of maintaining the overall style of the original series while updating the production quality to look plausibly futuristic to an audience in 2023.
Jeff Cornell
2023-02-26 20:14:43 +0000 UTCVery true
Stardate 1312.4
2023-02-26 19:20:47 +0000 UTCIn fact those space suits were built just for this episode. Not exactly cheap, and as I recall we don't see them again. Spacesuits were always pretty iffy. I don't think we got a really good spacesuit design in Science Fiction until Ridley Scott's Alien. Incidentally one piece of tech detail here is Kirk pushes the thing on his chest to communicate. We later see in TNG they use chest piece combadges which becomes quintessential Star Trek for TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Yeah, the aliens not being common on the Enterprise is because of budget. They almost lost Spock because the network didn't know "Who he was for." So that was a fight. In The Animated Series they are able to show a few more alien crew. There are supposed to be a dozen alien species on the ship. The reason Kirk seemed broken up that they didn't check the orders/why they lied was because they were trying to say they didn't have time. They were trying to save face basically, they didn't want Kirk to know they thought he was dead. There are a number of things from this episode that don't make a return until wayyyyyyy later in Enterprise. The prequel. It's one of the bummers about TOS, a lot of the alien races don't get much play in TNG or later. It's always hard to gauge what you guys are going to take out of an episode, and I have to say it is one of the most compelling things about you guys. Please don't ever change that. You never need to ham it up, your honesty is what makes you fun to watch and listen to. There are a few episodes, the very next one, I'm very keen to hear your reactions to. Definitely some CAMP ahead. I think the next one in particular is going to give you guys a giggle. One thing that is interesting to note about "The Original Series" as an era within the Star Trek universe... we do get to see it again, very very briefly in TNG, and again in DS9... and it looks exactly the same. It's one of the reasons I'm not keen on watching the Remasters, because when you do get to TNG and you see what I'm talking about... It's the original stuff, unchanged. Same for DS9. You see the old stuff as it was, they don't try to update it. The reason I bring that up is, you'll come across a lot of fans who do not take well to the JJ Abrams reboots based on the visuals alone, and also the same can be said of the newer series. Star Trek from 1964 to 2004 maintained a massive continuity both in terms of the stories told, as well as the visual look. If you are in 2268, from the perspective of any of the shows produced in that time frame... It looks like TOS.
Steven Johnson
2023-02-26 18:59:09 +0000 UTCI think Spock and Bones lied to Kirk because they were embarrassed by their earlier behavior and wanted him to believe the two of them knew how to get along with each other without hearing it from him.
James H
2023-02-26 18:55:08 +0000 UTCDefinitely would’ve been interesting if he finished this one out, but I’m glad his last credited episode was one we loved
Josh (Target Audience)
2023-02-26 18:37:10 +0000 UTCThis was the episode halfway through which Ralph Senensky was fired as director. It had to do with delays caused by the spacesuit fittings not having been done yet, which was not Senensky's fault.
James H
2023-02-26 18:10:56 +0000 UTCI like this episode!
Tom Occhipinti
2023-02-26 17:28:55 +0000 UTCI would expect they used caution on beaming over with suits since there was virtually sensor contact so they weren't sure of the conditions. Loved the mesh screen on front of the helmets. A lot of things did not make sense in this season, much of the production staff was different, they and the writers didn't have a good take on the characters. I supposed Spock and McCoy lied about the final orders because they didn't want Kirk to know they gave up on him. Next episode OMG. Just saw it for the first time in over 30 years, its one I make sure to avoid. I felt sorry for the actors having to perform those embarrassingly horrific scenes. I've seen all other episodes enough times to have all the dialog memorized, but the scene of Kirk and Spock discussing their feelings toward the "bad guys" in this episode was new to me and very surprising.
Stardate 1312.4
2023-02-26 17:04:49 +0000 UTC
