Update on Frost and Cisco

I was really excited for Second Wind. As an organization, as a community, as a collection of creators. Even if the signal to noise ratio was a little low, the likes of Ramblomatic, Cold Take, and Design Delve made supporting the group a great choice. But...here we are. The promises of open lines of communication seem great...until you take a moment to consider how that was literally supposed to be the point of Second Wind and what it's here to fix. And yet, the organization isn't even that old yet and you're already driving away creators with that lack of openness and communication. While also the defenses of the mismanagement from your biggest creators amount to, "I dunno. He's nice to me. It's probably fine." I'll stick around...for now. Give it all a chance to be fixed. But this? This is setting off warning bells already. And that's not a good sign.

Egor A. Palchyk

You didn't really respond to all the claims Frost did in his video, such as did you change the info about your earnings from Pateron that you published to your supporters? Furthermore, if Nick has a past of mismanaging his employees (something many can relate to is being mistreated by their bosses), everyone answering "he's nice to me so I don't care" doesn't really paint a great picture about your team. Especially Yatzee who holds most of the power saying that he doesn't care because his relationship with Nick is fine is utterly disappointing. I supported you from the start, even did a Patreon for this very purpose but I'm also stopping my support until you really address this topic, or you wont.

Loup de Nord

Just joined and gave you what support I can manage at this time. Keep up the good work. You rule Jack, keep up the beautiful work you hack fraud :P

Christopher of Spellscribe Games

OK, this is extremely disturbing. Again, I have no means to objectively judge to what extent what Frost presented is correct and not fabricated or cherry-picked, but at this point I need to see how the other SWG owners react. It's not to deny Nick the opportunity to defend himself - he definitely should address the issues and share his side of the story. But if Nick is at fault here, he shouldn't speak for SWG since he's potentially not representing their interests, just his own. And if Frost is wrong and Nick is the victim here, SWG still needs to show that they have proper leadership and management besides Nick - otherwise, Nick is either a single point of failure for their leadership structure, or effectively a CEO.

Maciej Myczkowski

Nick, what value do you bring to the Second Wind? Honestly? I know the immediate knee jerk reaction would be "HUR DUR BUT I MAKE EVERYTHING WORK", but I would rather have Frost back than you running the operations.

WetPaws

"Ive become accustomed to a certain lifestyle" Is not how you run a business.

Cole

think we're gonna need a reply from the team about this. Nick, this is a really bad look. I think the team needs a new "Nick".

walt m

https://youtu.be/MbPiP_eR3gQ?si=6zgd7C1tHEwIENz6

walt m

Thanks for the advice, but I must admit that reading that subreddit was neither enlightening nor pleasant. It mostly looked like a ton of people enabled by the circumstances to shout their preexisting opinions and emotions at each other in an embarrassing attempt to broadcast their act of picking a side without considering the consequences of what or how they're saying. But then again, this is the internet, so I have no idea what I was expecting there.

Maciej Myczkowski

They say that's precisely what they have done, and I don't see how that would be a lie since the rest of the team is standing together on this. Would the people who literally just left a cutthroat environment sit by silently and watch as Second Wind devolves into the same, even though this time they are co-owners and could put an end to it immediately? You should hear out both sides on the matter, and consider if the accusations make sense and have been substantiated in some way, before making a judgment call. I mean, I'm in no position to tell you what to do with your money, but anything else seems ill-advised.

mxwn

That was my stance as well after Frost had gone public with his resignation and accusations on twitter. As this post is a week old, I'd encourage you to look into how this situation has developed since to get a clearer picture of what's going on. People have collected updates and are discussing the matter in detail on the subreddit /r/SecondWindGroup. The SW team itself has been responsive to questions here on Patreon and on Discord.

mxwn

I have no means of finding out which side of this argument is closer to truth. But I know that SW lost 2 valuable employees - to me, Frost accounted for like 30% of this channel's value. That by itself is a failure. I don't know the full scope of the drama. But I know that any parting of ways that makes this much noise is a failure. Especially considering how much this situation reminds me of SW's exodus from The Escapist. I'm not going to make any rash decisions or demand reparations in blood. But you guys need to know that a big part of what made SW's brand appeal to me is opposing corporate mindset of overpowered management making inscrutable mistakes with no accountability, and regaining my trust will require you to prove that your idea of creator-friendly co-op isn't just lip service. And having to find another Frost is going to be a enough of a punishment. Ironic, considering that I recall Nick describing that having to find Frost was a consequence od some out-of-touch manager's decision to find another Yahtzee.

Maciej Myczkowski

Why would you quit over frost having a tantrum?

Cleveresthandle

Eek, may I suggest you guys have a round table between yourselves and Frost immediately. This is about to get really dirty (see Frost's twitter), really quickly. Everyone in SWG as well as Frost (he should.not. Come back in any capacity), need to sit down, admit their wrongs, understand how they happend, put in corrective procedures and move on. Transparency to patrons means sweet f all while this sh*t goes on in the background. I've quit my subscription but I truly hope/want SWG to succeed, so do the hard work on yourselves now and bury this crap otherwise it'll bury you and everything you've achieved so far.

Michael McCarthy

I'll be withdrawing my support as a consequence of this.

Claudio

That's huge news. Cold Take was _easily_ my favorite part of SecondWind.

Howdy_McGee

Adam Srayi does good work. Just sayin’.

NINJACHICKEN893

It’s alot of people, equipment, lodging, renting event space. Prices add up quick, members are on several continents.

NINJACHICKEN893

I had high hopes for this project, I'd like to wish everyone still involved all the best. You can do it!

Isaac Winter

Frost never posted any evidence of his allegations. The burden of proof is on frost.

Cleveresthandle

Frost made a bunch of allegations but provided no evidence. Did you check the discord? Jack answered most of the stiff frost brought up. Frost was outvoted. Was convinced he knew better than everyone else and quit.

Cleveresthandle

Cisco was fired. Why you lying? Also yahtzee is on vacation and hasn't said anything because of that. Why are you LYING?

Cleveresthandle

He didn't make any points. He made accusations without evidence. The burden of proof is still on frost.

Cleveresthandle

You will not be missed. Shoo.

Cleveresthandle

2. I function fine in my relationships because it's not based on me having to contribute money. Also because of Frost I am now aware that some folk, especially the ones I upped my subscription for, are receiving a fraction (50% or less) of the pay than others. I saw the Second Wind as a group much stronger than any individual but the pay structure does not reflect that or aligns with the amount of work people put in. I'm aware there are people who a lot of unseen work behind the scenes as well to keep the ship afloat. So in effect, I see that about 50% of my subscription goes to 25% of the staff. After 3-4 years of contributions (including escapist) I feel comfortable about how much I've contributed and the reasons why I've stopped them. The 2nd Wind team will sleep well without it, trust me. You should try the same.

Michael McCarthy

Just going to block you. No one likes smart asses. Leave.

Bastion Gray

1. You're going to have to put up your pledge by $40 to cover mine.

Michael McCarthy

I can't get over the amount of right wing/alt-right grifters defending/supporting Frost on his Twitter rant. Absolutely grim. The rest of you at SW still have my support though ^^

Saint_Redfield

If I could do that myself I totally would. I can at least stay the same for now. My new career is "supposed" to pay me a lot more than what I do now, so when that happens maybe I'll get to share the wealth a bit more. 😄

Dan Smeiska

Just gonna increase my pledge just to spite all those whose brains where rotted by Twitter. Also nice dropping second wind at the slightest sight of problems. How do you guys function in real relationships?

Bastion Gray

Not enough, I want direct answers to every single point made by frost

Joshua Haskett

I thought it weird that Frost never seemed to include himself in many things. He never did D&D and only guest starred in the podcasts. It now seems to me that he might have been keeping one foot in the going out door. I enjoy the content and environment Second Wind fosters. I enjoy Frost’s thoughtful videos. It’s a shame things seem to have divided roughly. Hopefully good things come from a bad break up for both.

NINJACHICKEN893

I don't see what he said is unprofessional. Nick has been in hot water for quite awhile, to the point the 2W team told him to stop or be fired, he has said that himself on here. While he said he has stopped that behavior that doesn't mean behind the scenes behavior that we don't see hasn't negatively affected 2W. Frost's resignation is him simply saying he no longer agrees with his boss and is resigning due to the things he listed. Hes not mentioning anyone else, dragging people down, or attempting to belittle other content creators. He disagreed with upper management (Nick & the board of directors) and left. Thats it.

Mello

You can specifically search for Jack's messages on discord. Cleared up things somewhat for me. At least mood wise

Cyberchief888

Thats great but i have seen a handful of comments about what others have said and yet *noone has posted any sources either!*

Dénes Hliva

Perfectly put. If you like what someone does and can afford a regular subscription/Patreon, you should do it in every case. Meta and Alphabet have made advertising too consolidated and at their whim to make it reliable, even for brands and people who have long relied on it.

Brendan

I think Evan's got the gist of it. I work in accounts payable for a fishing company, and our travel expenses add up fast when it comes to getting our fishermen from wherever they live during the offseason just to Seattle, never mind all the way to Alaska if they're midseason attrition-replacement hires. Can't imagine it's THAT much different for something like producing Adventure is Nigh.

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

it was slowly turning into a nothingburger with nice voice anyway, so yeah.

Ooof_uhhh_haah

Sounds like youve never run a business. Having people you can trust and argue with in good faith is core to success. I think your trite sage wisdom could do with a lot more caveats. Like make sure your friends are intelligent, reasonable, and coolheaded.

Ian Watts

Cisco did not leave. We, as a team, voted to fire him. Sorry to see you go, but correcting the record there as this was not a "Nick" decision, but a team decision. Thanks.

Nick Calandra

What specific allegations would you want them to respond to? Frost's outburst was full of very vague claims. Would "no, that's not what happened" satisfy you as a rebuttal? Because that would carry exactly equivalent weight to what Frost wrote, as he provided no evidence or even a concrete example. In fact, some of what he brings up, like "joyriding around the world", was already specifically refuted.

Wilhelm Svenselius

It does not look to me like frost is shacking up with them at all lol they're just drama hawks who will rally against anything. Frost didn't reply to or engage with anyone weird as far as I can see. Frost has always had very clear and strong politics that don't align with the right wing grifters

JJJ

Exactly. I support SW for the fun it brings, not to hear a bunch of bickering internals. Transparency is great, but be mindful of how it is used.

jahr

Jess from WhatCulture Gaming is one of the best voices on their channel, Ellen Rose and Jane Douglas at Outside Xbox/Xtra are both delightful, and there are plenty of female-helmed channels about cozy games if Second Wind wanted to draw from that talent pool to talk more about "Stardew-likes" as part of their content strategy.

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

One of the biggest reasons I joined the Patreon was that upon seeing the revenue report for the first month and seeing what YouTube provided compared to what they were getting from that initial Patreon boost, it became obvious that not only Second Wind but the creator economy as a whole absolutely demands that those of us in the audience willing and able to support our favorite creators with whatever carve-out we can spare in our entertainment budget are the ones who make quality user-driven content possible, not some corporate host making huge profits and sharing a pittance with the people who make their platform exist (looking at you, Alphabet and Meta and every other greedy billion-dollar-minting tech company.)

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

GGs.. im out.. I pitched 10 bones a month since you guys started this gig. This news didnt sit right with me. Oligarchy's never work for this exact reason.. Not hearing any confidence from this guy after his partner just smeared his reputation across the internet. He just copy and pasted the post he left on discord. Cisco left because he knows what he's worth. You dont let your head of sales go after he hits every sales record since the beginning. He resigns. This company has no backbone. Yahtzee's an artist and has a friendship with Nick. Him saying "I dont want to be part of the drama" just tells me he's not willing to strain a friendship in order to keep his business afloat. Im out. Remember kids: If youre starting a business, never mix business with friendship.

Dr.Pastrami

Pretty immature post from Frost and a bit reckless to try and torpedo a place where your friends work regardless what you think of your boss. Hopefully this will lead to more openness amongst the staff and everyone can get back to creating great videos for us all to enjoy.

Matt Evans

I'm very sad to see Frost go, he was one of the reasons I had such faith in second wind as an enterprise. I hope both second wind and Frost can maintain relations and continue to produce the content I enjoy so much.

Ben Repton

I've seen enough for the past 8 months to make an informed decision. I'm not siding with Frost and from his resignation, he would probably disagree with the reason why I'm withdrawing my pledge. It's also worth noting that Cisco was fired for similar reasons why Nick was fired from the Escapist which has been largely ignored because of Frost's departure. I appreciate transparency but I'd rather know nothing if the energy was directed towards running a smooth ship and treating people fairly.

Michael McCarthy

same for me, I was like: but... but why are you saying that like it's a bad thing?

ben kay

In one of the Discord channels

sauerkraus

Losing seven $5/mo pledges is nothing to clutch pearls over. It's not a moral failing in people to speak with their wallets, and it's weird to ask for more restraint from the audience than from the creators.

Aaron Von Seggern

HALF the reason I subscribe to you is gone... Just saying... Red Flag, Red Flag.

Aaron Smith

It's funny that the latest Windbreaker title was "How to (not) do an ending". Seems like someone didn't take that advice.

Lorenzo Cupelli

Many of us visit this platform primarily for the entertaining videos, not for controversy. It's important for this new company to avoid getting caught up in rumors or public displays of immaturity, as these can lead to misunderstandings, alienate supporters, and harm relationships within the broader video game development community. Please maintain a professional environment so we can all continue to enjoy the funny videos we love. Thank you.

Jennifer Burnstein

Where did he post the Salaries? I haven't seen that?

Josue Villarreal

I'm sad to see them go, and will be watching to see what 2W does now. Some difference can't be talk thru and more or less, you will see if there are changes in system, good or bad. Sad though was hoping for a Cold Take Ice cube plush... now my (imaginary) collection will never be complete.

Sharkke Koffee

all I know is, I will continue to support both Frost and Second Wind.

Zoob Mer

I don’t watch enough stuff to know but I’m sure someone interesting could be found. What about giving Amy her own slot?

Blackreach

Can you name an female game reviewer/news that is popular? I've been looking for new stuff, that isn't irregular videos on theories, other people's content, etc

Sharkke Koffee

I think people need to chill out before making such rash decisions to take sides, cancel pledges etc. You read a few posts and think you know the whole story. Be sensible. Sit on it, wait for more information to come to light and then come to a formed decision.

Jason Ho

this is all very strange, and we sure need more transparency on that issue. what i find especially fishy is nicks high praise for cisco on twitter (on june 11th, not even eight weeks ago), just so he is let go for dubious reasons now. i really hope that this issue will be publicly disclosed asap, or else i might not be able to stay on your patreon with good conscience much longer.

ØFVCHS

Frost was completely out of line for posting salaries and for his X outburst. If you watch/listen to the content, continue to support SW financially or there will be no content. Supporters already openly using this as an excuse to stop funding SW is a pretty low blow

Mark Whitby

Long overdue yeah

Colin Vidar

This is just a business disagreement, don't let it break up the friendship you all have. I pay only £1 for support and enjoy Frost's content. We'll see how things go.

Hozi

Plague_Vessel

A lot of what Frost said struck me as insanely entitled, but I definitely want to echo the crowd here and say everyone vague posting at each other is really not it as a paying contributor to this. If you can legally share more information as soon as possible it'd definitely be appreciated.

DRIndy

A bunch of people left "previous company/site" due to how things were being handled, it shouldn't surprise anyone that less than a year later people are doing the same thing. It was fun while it lasted.

Josh 'Joosh' Munro

I think it would be cool if there was a regular video by a woman.

Blackreach

I had no idea either but from context and some light research it sounds like he’s one of those far right grifter gamer-gate weirdos.

Tim Wilson

Don’t worry, I’m sure Frost will make another exciting tell-all post somewhere or make a guest appearance on some podcast or other, purely for benign reasons of course(!) I too want to know all the juicy details but I think we need to be honest with ourselves that at a certain point it’s just a desire for gossip and an invasion of privacy (such a certain someone posting everyone’s salaries). Second Wind as a company is pretty damn transparent but there still has to be some internal workings and issues they keep from us mere randos.

Tim Wilson

Nah, this ain't it. Frost made specific claims about how the company is being mismanaged, and you failed to address any of his concerns. Sounds like that's par for the course. I was originally going to stay a patron, but now I'll be withdrawing my support, specifically because of this BS response.

mathdemigod

As a viewer, I... frankly do not care about the internals of the company or how things are being run. I don't have the energy to follow the inner workings of Second Wind, much less all the other companies I patronize. I'll be honest, I'm primarily just here for FR/SR, but my Patreon support is worth that to me. All I really care about is that the employees own the company and reap the rewards of their labor, rather than the enterprise being owned by do-nothing capitalist pigs. There's always going to be disagreements and internal strife in any organization. Be adults. Talk to each other. Don't try to marshal public support against each other; that's just childish.

dirtside

Agreed. Design delve, adventure is Nigh, and Cold take were the main reasons for me going and patreon.

Half Tangible

I’m guessing it’s not just airfare, but lodging, per diem, rideshares, company dinners. It adds up when it’s more than 1 person.

Evan Wilberg

As soon as I read the words "tanked our youtube revenue" in Frost's letter I completely checked out. Y'all have explained on many occasions why youtube revenue cannot be relied on and I agree completely with the direction of ignoring it completely and treating anything you do get from it as a bonus. I enjoyed the Cold Take episodes at first, but lately they've just felt bitter and resentful so I'll be honest I don't think I mind that they'll be going away. I will continue to support Second Wind and your vision to create a truly sustainable company that doesn't rely on the fickle whims of the youtube algorithm.

Toksyuryel

I think it would be helpful to understand more about the specifics of Frost's allegations, and the specifics of your rebuttals. Until then it's very difficult to make heads or tails of this, especially as someone who is not on Twitter and is not 'in the loop'.

ergotpoisoning

I would also like to see Frost come back. If it's a genuine disagreement about the financial approach to the company, sometimes it is better for people to part ways and pursue their own vision. But I wouldn't like it to be a matter of management style.

Stephen B

Me too. I might have to get a Twitter just to keep up with Frost

Eating Pancakes Right Now

I would like to see a response to Frost's comments from the Second Wind board, not from Nick. Having observed Nick's immature behavior on podcasts and streams, I feel like it warrants a response. The above response feels dismissive and flippant in a way that does nothing to address Frost's comments.

SabreWieldingMountaineer

Having read both Frost's twitter post and this post, I still don't know what's going on. I have no understanding of how youtube's algorithm works nor the factuality on Frost's statement nor on this statement. With that said, 1) I wish both all parties the very best of luck. 2) If someone is willing to resign to make a point, assess the factuality of the person's statement and discuss, as a whole, whether or not it's a valid concern, then if it's possible to address at this time and/or does it need to be addressed in the future, then if the solutions proposed is possible, then if there are alternatives and/or compromises, then steps moving forward. Even if the concern is silly, it's worthwhile going through these steps with sincerity. As any lack of which means unwillingness to change and/or people not being heard. 3) Keep an email box and/or maybe even a kanban (like we use in agile software development) of concerns that people can submit to. Like a suggestions box. Maybe both. One anonymous and one not. But the reason for this is to have a record of suggestions/concerns/questions that are not only logged, but has a record and/or archive of whether or not they're addressed and the address in question. Hell, I'll set one up for you guys and/or teach you guys how to use it if you guys don't know. 4) If or when things are properly addressed, there's nothing to say you can't reach out to Frost and ask him to come back. One of the mark of a good company is its willingness to correct itself, make amends and apologize. A lot of the gaming companies we all criticize does exactly not that. They will make a mistake, double down as to "not look weak" and push forward with bridged burnt. Be the better company and, if what he said had a point, take measures, correct, or even talk to him and discuss what changes can be done for him to comeback. Even if it's a foundational change. Just the fact that you're willing to consider it/hear him out shows a lot of good will. Maybe what he said about youtube revenue and sponsors is true. Maybe it's outdated info. Maybe he just has a different approach than yours. Maybe it can be both. Maybe your or his vision doesn't have to be the only one in leading the company. Lastly. I don't know if these will help but I'm writing it here because they're common pitfalls that everyone needs a reminder of every now and then. 1) As a leader, your role isn't to command your team. Your role is to serve your team. You work to make sure they can do their job. You work for them, they don't work for you. 2) If you're overwhelmed, remember that you're not alone. You can ask for help. 3) Don't be afraid to open up to people about concerns. Talk about your feelings and your fears and what you're excited about. Yeah, showing insecurity can give people fear, but if your goal about it is to be constructive, i.e. find ways to progress, get a better perspective than what the palantir in our minds likes to show us, get advice, that should dissuade irrational fears and push forth a feeling of hope. And take it from a Taiwanese. Sometimes, the choices you have are only hope and utter destruction/literal genocide. And, although it's hard, that hope is the strongest weapon you have. 4) If someone's under performing, give them plenty of notice and a reasonable path forward. Maybe they're legitimately not doing their job. But you wouldn't be doing yours if you didn't try to address things. Good luck and my very best of wishes to all parties involved.

sleepingkirby

The problem wasn't that it wasn't exciting. The problem was that it didn't clarify anything, and doubling down on the opacity is where I'm pulling the plug. Wish you guys all the best, but I'm not comfortable backing whatever's going on inside a black box.

Another Warren

Have you seen the cost of flights lately? 😆

ComradeRedPagan

For real. All I watch is Fully/Semi Ramblomatic, Design Delve, Cold Take, and the occasional Byte Sized that catches my eye. It’s a really big loss in my eyes.

Austin Richards

Man, Cold Take was my favorite show. I used to look forward to it and get excited whenever a new vid came out. I liked the way he criticized the toxicity of the video game industry and the vibe he had while doing so. Design Delve and Fully/Semi-Ramblomatic are the only things holding me here. That being said, I don't use Discord or Twitter, Im not aware of all the deets and the lore but the letter of resignation Frost wrote is very problematic. I want you all to know that I don't make a lot of money and the little bit I give to SW is because I believe in the vision but if the hard-earned money I am donating is being handled poorly, like Frost mentioned, I will take my money and donate it to another creator.

Lunasea Galaxia

I hope this letter to Second Wind's viewership is sincere, as Frost's letter of resignation paints a somewhat different, heated picture of the situation. Now, I'm open to hearing both sides of the story, and I understand that creating a business from scratch is a costly and exhausting venture - not to mention the turbulent drama that immediately preceded it - so I am sure the situation is a lot more complicated and nuanced than what either Nick or Frost can portray in a few brief paragraphs. I am not judging or condemning anyone at this point with how few details we possess on the matter. However, both this letter and Frost's betray apparent issues in communication and business models that need to be addressed. I do hope to see these issues resolved in the future to prevent any possibility of this company devolving into the same unsustainable, toxic environment the company's own members had spent years railing against. This team deserves better, and I think I speak for their fanbase when I say we all want this to work out for this talented group. That is why we are backing this venture in the first place, and will continue to do so until given explicit reasons not to. A house divided cannot stand, so Second Wind needs to find the hammers and nails to fix it before it collapses. That's all I'm going to say on this matter.

Xavier Feliz

I agree with your last point. Based on Frost’s Twitter post, I think he was seeing something that nobody else did in the company structure and Nick’s leadership role specifically. Whether what he saw actually exists is another matter.

Sean Cunningham

I mean who knows. This is a bit bizarre post from Frost to be honest. Full of vitriol. Given that this is the first goodbye from the original group, I'm willing to write it off as a one off. If we see another, then yes it is an issue.

Russell Schafer

With the level of anger and vehemence in Frost's message, it suggests if it truly "came as a surprise to all of us" then they were blind to the level of frustration Frost was feeling. These sorts of reactions do not come from nowhere.

Dustin Sollick

Frost's comments concern me and I'm not particularly reassured by this post, as it seems like some points haven't been properly addressed. For example, I'd like to know more about these 'content viewership goals' and 'revenue strategies' - these aren't reassuring phrases to hear. Seeing what your financial ins and out are doesn't give us insight on what's being pushed for. A huge amount of Second Wind's good will comes from the perception of the group defying the poor behavior and culture of many corporations related to the gaming industry, and we need clear reassurance that the Second Wind group will not fall prey to anything similar. Please show us transparency on this front as well.

Jukashi

Should I know who Grumzz and Smashjt are? I'm not on Twitter so I never know about this kind of stuff.

Cameron Gore

Can you elaborate? I don't understand your comment.

Cameron Gore

Thank you for this. I also agree that I want to hear from others but it is almost impossible for me to find anything on discord. It just moves to fast for me.

Cameron Gore

Except Toffee

Tim Carroll

I believe the majority of that was for Amy (edit and JM8). Even economy from Australia is expensive.

Cameron Gore

Same here!

Cameron Gore

Just sending wishes of peace, love, and happiness to everyone. I'll keep backing y'all for two major reasons: Company transparency and the content you put out. Things are never perfect all the time, and this does suck. Again, making wishes for calmer waters ahead as we sail on. Thanks for all you do.

Dan Smeiska

Hang in there, y’all

JoCo

For AiN, I believe the were renting an AirBnB for 7 or so people, who all travelled various distances - some a fair bit larger than others (ie Amy coming from Australia). GDC saw JM8 travel from England. So yeah, I can see all that travel adding up.

BlueAversion

Thanks for the reply. I was following his columns but I didn't remember him saying that.

James

Darren paid for that himself, or at least that’s what he said in the video on it IIRC.

Brandon Headrick

Frost was the first person on the channel I watched outside Yahtzee, and seeing him go is a big red flag for me. Wish him and SW both the best of luck in the future, but to be crystal clear, Yahtzee is the rainmaker here for me. He goes, I go.

Charles Strite

Didn't you also send Darren Mooney to Cannes? Or was that paid for by other means?

James

For someone who is not on any twitters or discords, I have no idea what is going on. For those who are involved, I’m sure it’s a big deal (big enough to quit a job), but considering that I could go completely without knowing what is going on and STILL be a SW member (been watching Yahtzee since the early ZP days) means that it can’t be that big a deal. I know, everybody has their drama, but I saw none of it. Not a bit. Nothing behind the scenes, nada. So from my perspective, a successful well-paid employee just quit randomly. Maybe Frost had a good reason to leave, but I’ve been out of a job for two months now and I’m putting out dozens of applications per week. I can’t imagine anything being so bad at my job that the boss tweeting would make me quit. Maybe that’s because I’ve been living off of savings for two months. And I’m STILL A MEMBER. Heck, is Frost’s job open? I can do video reads.

MDO

Why are Nick and Grummz even linked? Why do I keep hearing about this shit when I'm just tryna read Darren's articles?

Aaron Von Seggern

That cost $23 000? I hope you all flew economy 😅

Drew McParlan

We filmed Adventure is Nigh and we went to GDC. That's the only travel we've done and it was to make content for the channel.

Nick Calandra

That’s disappointing. I really enjoy Frost. Good luck to him and all.

Dave Phetteplace

The travel expenses are a huge number in your expenses. I can see the point there. Why is that necessary?

Drew McParlan

Aww man, I hadn't realized, I thought it was just on an irregular schedule. Wasn't a huge fan of Cold Take, but loved Chronicle. ...Uh, but I don't think my particular likes/dislikes are a referendum on either Frost or SW.

Tristan

As the old saying goes, "everything ends badly or else it wouldn't end." (I think that's from the film "Cocktail"?) My teenage first love had nothing on the drama of my divorce, so you never quite outgrow that sort of thing.

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

Rotating cast would be my suggestion. Whether from within 2W or interesting industry people with a particular connection to whatever the topic is that week.

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

I didn’t know about any drama before this post, but man, there’s a lot of stuff social media really doesn’t like about Nick. And I don’t mean the Twitter fights (though that’s probably not a professional thing to do as a CEO, IMO). 🤔

Brandon Headrick

Jack spoke up in the discord to back Nick up. Hard to find through the noise but that's one viewpoint.

YellaChicken

I have to say I think Cold Take would vary as a decent fit for the channel’s overall tone from week to week for me. I think there should be a creator who speaks about the industry, the business of the industry, and capitalism at large but it appears to be difficult to find one who doesn’t rub me personally the wrong way eventually. It’s odd that The Escapist lineage produced two of those but I’m going to chalk that up more to coincidence than anything.

BensDecoy

Some quite nasty comments from people who have joined up just to stir the pot, so yes, they've been removed as necessary.

Nick Calandra

As said in the statement, Frost had a different direction in mind for how we did a lot of things, and the team didn't agree with it. Won't get into a he said / she said situation, when that's the crux of the issue. I know that's not the exciting answer. - Nick

Nick Calandra

Frost cancelled Chronicle on his own after the first episode.

Nick Calandra

No, the info that was included in the "dox" was already in the public domain. Grummz got upset that it was highlighted by Nick and yeah, maybe Nick shouldn't have pointed it out or maybe he was justified, whatever. Point is though, that's not doxxing and if you use your home address as your public business address and then claim a right to privacy, you f**ked up. Edit: should correct myself that it wasn't even Nick that found and shared the details. Grummz own account shows he asked ppl not to so...

YellaChicken

Presumably Cold Take is leaving. Is Chronicle also leaving? Wish the best for both SW and Frost, regardless of conflict between you.

Tristan

While i dont want to be part of the hate mob against second wind, but, i'd like to hear from the other important figures at second wind to see what they think about all this. This is clearly a Frost vs Nick problem, and i dont want to make a decision about what i think of the situation until i heard more than the two viewpoints

Dénes Hliva

This is unfortunate, but not especially surprising - running a business is hard, and running a business composed of your friends is harder still. Running a business composed of a bunch of creatives who are friends is the final boss of all businesses. Creative labor is some of the most rewarding work you can do, but also the most frustrating because you have a vision and when you’re successful, it’s easy to be confident that your vision is the “correct” one for an organization. This is why bands break up! It happens! I don’t pretend to know exactly what transpired here, because only Frost and the Second Wind team know for sure, but to me the simplest explanation is the unsatisfying “creative differences” one. Occam’s razor, folks.

Doc Furan

I haz a sad.

David Arcaine

I don't think they're actually on Frosts side, they're just grifters seizing on an opportunity to stir s**t.

YellaChicken

Sorry to see him go and I hope he finds what he is looking for. He has a lot of talent. However, talking shit of your previous colleagues is always a bad look in my opinion. Unless Nick kicked his dog or stole his GF, I think he could have just said "hey I just don't feel this group anymore" and peaced out. I'll still follow him and I'll still be a Patreon here. His exit is rather unprofessional though.

Russell Schafer

I’m just here for Yahtzee so I’ve got no dog in this fight.

Jam

Bruh, if THATS the goodbye message than you are blind to not see anything wrong beforehand.

Dustin Sollick

Thank you for continuing to be off twitter, please keep staying off. Sorry you/the team have to go through this

damien glenn

I hadn't even thought of the yahtzee thing. The more I think of it the more unhappy I am with frost.

Cleveresthandle

Second Wind is a super small company, I don’t imagine there could be anyone working there without any stakes in whatever personal issue is occurring.

baronCosmos

Hope yall manage well without. I wasn't really into his content nor did I ever feel his perspectives meshed well with the other members of the crew. I am surprised he's going scorched earth though.

Andres Solorzano

Love the whole team. Bummed that frost left but the support he is getting from bigoted grifters like smashjt or gigabear tells me that second wind group is in the right. Hopefully frost will denounce their support and go a third way.

Cleveresthandle

I appreciate the response. I don't frequent the discord for patreon subs I have, but it's nice to know something is in place. I hope you are able to adjust with what you need, I know it's easy to get swept up in all of that. And it's the primary reason I have limited my own social media use. I can't speak to allegations, but I do know how letting it take over your life can make everything else seem irrelevant. I've heard responses on both sides and all I can do is sit with that information. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle, I'll be looking forward to seeing what everyone does from here.

Mastrix

"This was addressed a month ago with the team and I've made the necessary changes to resolve it." So yeah, sounds like everything got resolved! /s

Aaron Von Seggern

That was more or less my point. Nothing wrong with getting your bread but at the same time, seems like Frost is the type to move on from things sooner than others might do or for different reasons. On the flip side, maybe he’s a jack of all trades but master of none getting ahead of himself? I don’t really care either way but he did quit like a teenager breaking up with their first girlfriend.

Tim Wilson

In fairness nick did not pick those fights. Vermin like grummz did. Nick should have just blocked the scum and been done with it though.

Cleveresthandle

Lol when in history has everyone rode the fence in a controversy?

Aaron Von Seggern

I'd love to hear some specifics on what wasn't resolved a month ago since we are seeing this fallout now and not then. I definitely understand that you don't want to inflame things by leveling accusations or ascribing motives, but "different directions" doesn't shed much light on what actually went down, leaving the concerned with little to do but wait for more from Frost.

Another Warren

Said it in discord but might as well put it here as well. Frost's parting comments are really concerning and I'd like to get more info on what the "different expectations" were if at all possible. That said, Jack's comments in discord in regard to the team being aware of and disagreeing with Frost's vision and their willingness to call a vote to fire Nick if they believe he's doing harm to the group is heartening. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for more information from both the 2W team and Frost in hopes of getting a more complete picture here.

DeebZ Scrub

Disappointing to hear, but I'll be honest Cold Take wasn't really my thing. Also poor form to smear in a twitter rant without any apparent receipts, and trying to drag Yahtzee into it. Pretty sure he has his own voice

Harley Faggetter

Agreed. If smashjt is on your side, rethink your position.

Cleveresthandle

I don't think having a ton of careers is per se a bad thing (as Yahtzee pointed out responding to a superchat, I'm older than everyone at Second Wind, so I speak with some authority here.) Some people are just born mercenaries. Whatever Frost does next, he'll probably be great at first and either he'll wear out his welcome or he'll get bored and move onto the next thing in his life. As long as he's paying his bills, good for him.

May Contain Fox-Like Substance

Okay, just to be clear, there is obviously an issue here. First, one of your forward facing people just walked out an lit things on fire on the way out, and one of your control level staff has been in a controversy in recent memory. That means, regardless of the real story, something is terribly wrong. Perhaps the staff not involved with these issues should investigate what's actually happening?

Foolish Frost

I understand that but disagree. I'm not going to discuss people's salaries who as far as I know not agreed for them to be shared in public but my support has hinged on pay being more equitable amongst the co-op though to be honest I always feared it would not be. I thought it improper to question it. My mistake but equity is what my support hinges on (probably not the case for 99.99% of other supporters). Act on it or don't, you know the 2nd Wind team better than I.

Michael McCarthy

I understand, but are you (Nick) going to get *better*?

UrbanFoxxo

Frost's post mentions nothing about it (unless indirectly), so there is no reason to think that the two are related. Arguably, they do not seem to align, seeing as how the one is about how Calandra gives in to scarequotes woke corporate interests, while Frost the problems with sponsors that attitude would tend to provoke. So it seems to me it's just someone trying to leech someone more notable's complaints about the same person.

J.S. Majer

TBD

Aaron Von Seggern

We're not going anywhere.

Nick Calandra

Will continue. Don't know who we'll put in yet. Stay tuned.

Nick Calandra

Seems like lots of folks taking sides. I know no one from Second Wind and I don't know why it happened. Was Frost right? Was he wrong? I don't know. None of us do. I enjoy Second Wind and I enjoy Frost. I'm not happy he's leaving, but I hope both find what they're looking for.

Thomas

As clarified on Discord, I have been off for the last month as the team intervened with me, and made clear I would be fired (which I agreed with) if I did not reign myself in as I was spiraling mentally and hurting the business. This was addressed a month ago with the team and I've made the necessary changes to resolve it. - Nick

Nick Calandra

This was my first question hearing this news. I definitely preferred SSE over the current Windbreaker format, so I vote duo pod!

freemer

I like Frost and his videos, but as a complete outsider that just consumes the content, it's not really my place to speculate on the inner workings of the company. If there are real fundamental issues than I expect to hear more stuff pop up, at which point I would have to reconsider any monetary support. As someone that keeps away from social media, I don't know not do I entirely care to know the private choices of any members of staff, which seems to be an issue some other people have brought up. Oh well, I'm still here for all of the other videos they produce

Christopher Hosking

Well this is a bizarre bummer. That’s a video less a week I’ll be getting but honestly the Cold Takes were starting to get a bit stale (might just be that the topics didn’t really affect me). I liked Frost on Windbreakers though. As for the rest, this is some all around unprofessional shit. I do appreciate the transparency we’ve gotten but some more information up front would’ve been nice so I didn’t have to go on twitter for the first time in years to get some more pieces of the story. As for Nick… meh. If the rest of the team has stuck with him then either Frost (who is about my age but seems to have had a dozen careers so this might be a pattern?) is the only sane man in the room, or just thinks he is.

Tim Wilson

In the broadest collective sense of the word, e.g., how people behave online doesn’t always or ever equate to how they’re offline or broader social norms for decency, so irrational or bad behavior is to be expected.

Nathaniel

Default user, great imagination you've got there, keep plugging away and maybe it'll become true one day.

YellaChicken

Nothing good happens on Twitter. It should be used at most once a day for a few minutes to see if there was something worth noting that happened the day before, but other than that, it's not designed to make you happy, it's designed to keep you engaged, which often means irritated and angry.

Brad Root

He does have a tendency to pick fights he shouldn't.

UrbanFoxxo

Just gonna block you guys. This has reached reddit and youtube comments level of inteligence.

Bastion Gray

Didn't say every unsub was fake. Talking about "default user" etc bigging up Grummz and claiming they're leaving. Looks like some have disappeared so I assume they've either been booted or blocked me for saying that.

YellaChicken

Honestly all I needed to see were the people supporting Frost on Twitter to know that he's not the one in the right. If anything, I feel cheated by someone who apparently agrees with Grumzz having been part of the team

3mix2yoo

This is... Disheartening. I know some of y'all are on the younger side and I think this is a fairly substantial growing pain. I can only hope lessons are learned. And dear lord, nick you gotta stay off Twitter. I think it's starting to really frame your entire view of the industry and while it can be useful for certain things, it is NOT all encompassing. Perspective is important to get, and your colleagues are (by all accounts) trying to help you realize that, but this is going to be a wake up call, hopefully.

Mastrix

You mean, everywhere else on the Internet?

Aaron Von Seggern

Will the windbreaker podcast end or will it just be a duo pod like before?

panamex512

I looked at that Grummz guys' Twitter page and he's not in any way shape or form at all credible unless you're very politically aligned with his views (at which point I'm sure you're a member of his gamergate-adjacent fan club), so I'm taking all that with a massive grain of salt.

Brad Root

Yet they sent me this notification and letter. I can't willingly subscribe AND steer clear. Nick should steer clear of doing dumb shit in his off time.

Aaron Von Seggern

Salaries are public within the team. We all know what we make, and Yahtzee, Omar, and I, as the highest earners, are not taking any raises from SW now and in the future. Our goal, which we all agreed on at the start of Second Wind, is to bring over our salaries from Escapist, and then bump everyone else up + made KC and Jesse G full-time. We've been following through on all those goals while remaining sustainable.

Nick Calandra

Escapist/SW's shows like FR, Cold Take, and Design Delve were some of the best gaming videos to be put on YouTube. Having such a team to be broken apart by one person's incompetence is disheartening. I'll try to see what other SW staff have to say, but I'm considering ending my subscription.

UrbanFoxxo

Thanks

Alex

You can find my name on videos going back 3 years and in the comment sections of articles on the escapist. I've been here for the long haul for over 10 years.

Michael McCarthy

-yawn- Anything else? Continue spouting your opinion while belittling others for doing the same. Seems counterintuitive but, this is the internet.

Nathaniel

Is there any truth behind the doxxing claims?

Steven Thomas

Yeah, anyone who has worked on a big team knows that people like Frost, writing stuff like what he wrote, are really only outing themselves as the people who were unable or unwilling to collaborate once reality sets in/the going gets tough. Personally, I am not above 'blowing up' and writing something similar, but I write it to my team privately, and then we deal with the aftermath together. I don't throw in a grenade and then run off. I don't want to be too harsh on Frost, we're all fighting our own battles and so on, but it's not a good look deep down. Might score some internet points from some people though.

Brad Root

I don't use the discord much, but I can't imagine the one about Nick encouraging doxxing to be true, sounds like bollocks. Any proof?

Steven Thomas

You should be shedding zero tears and zero time on a person like Grummz, so why is Nick organizing any of this fucking shit on discord? Doesn't he have a business to run?

Aaron Von Seggern

Grummz is the only piece of crap.

Cleveresthandle

Grummz friends faking unsub and making snide comments on here wasn't predictable at all.

YellaChicken

No need to announce your departure. Good luck finding good gaming journalism elsewhere.

Bastion Gray

*Citation needed

Cleveresthandle

Voting with my wallet and dropping my subscription for a bit. I don't agree with how Frost left but some of my suspicions have been confirmed by what's been shared. 2nd Wind is not as equitable as I believed it to be which I find disappointing considering the risk involved for everyone when they quit the escapist. Perhaps that's on me for expecting that the new group would balance things out. If I see that that those on lower bands have been levelled up closer to the top bands in reflection their contributions, then I'd happily bump back up the patreon tiers. I know this sounds very arrogant of me, and happy to stand by that accusation, but I support 2nd Wind because of everyone involved and the risk they took, my subscription should support them fairly according to their commitment and work in the present.

Michael McCarthy

Also I don't care what Nick does in his off time if he and the team deliver good content. Twitter is a cesspool where everyone will inevatebly mutate in some form. Keep clear of it and you are fine.

Bastion Gray

Unsub. Good luck with things!

Nathaniel

If you approve of this you're part of the problem and one of the pieces of crap that Grummz called out in his screenshots of the Discord

Kez'ral

I respect frosts decision and I can believe Nick was being an asshole to his coworkers but also, I am shedding 0 tears for grummz (all the info was already public anyways, dox is a strong word for what happened)

retronymph

I just thought the whole Hard-Bitten Noir voiceover thing was a dumb gimmick, but yes some of his stuff was bad.

Kez'ral

didn't expect frost to be the one with a hot take. (couldn't resist) but for real, frost sounds like he's still green behind the ears and didn't know how to be more professional. And I don't mean this is as an attack. it just seems like a rash decision made by someone with some life experiences but not enough therapy to see he's projecting. Frost if you read this, wish you the best; just think you may have been a bit too hasty and whee bit self-righteousness in your tweet.

walt m

Well, I can follow both. ZP/FR, Cold Take, and Design Delve are the things that I consistently watch. I can continue to watch them with two subscriptions. 😄 I don't have enough info to have an opinion about the issues that Frost has ... and honestly I'm not going to exert much/any effort to discover info. 🤷 I'll go check Frost's channel. Thanks.

Looming Dementia

I didn't like Cold Take anyway. I don't need weekly the-industry-is-going-to-crap videos. Trying to keep my mood up.

Bastion Gray

I don't know so much, after listening to Frost over the years and say he has a strong sense of integrity.. so for this to come out the way it did could speak to the real direness of the situation

Ryan Evans

I too have been appreciative of the transparency and one of the reasons I support SW. But this leads me to wonder if it’s smoke and mirrors. And there’s no real way for us to know. But considering that Frost jumped ship this early on after taking a risk to join SW speaks volumes to veracity of his message.

Austin Richards

Thanks for that, just subbed.

Brian S

...I have no clue what's happening.

Robert Louis Stoll

THIS. To say an environment is unprofessional and then proceed to spew grossly unprofessional accusations is quite rich. It just reinforces the idea that Frost was the one stirring the shit. I'm going to keep supporting Second Wind.

Jason Platt

https://x.com/Grummz/status/1793298182992179564 this was a factor I imagine

default user

The most concerning thing is that Frost has, in my opinion, some of the most insightful thoughts and commentary on the way industry affects creativity and production, so him turning that all-cutting laser on Second Wind and leaving this gash is a potential wake-up call.

Andrew Kent

It’s on Twitter, @TheOtherFrost https://x.com/TheOtherFrost/status/1819059744377606407

Chakiki

Nick is very obviously not the person he held himself out as. Using fan's money and goodwill for his ego. I could forgive him being a keyboard-warrior troll in his off time, but it has obviously bled into his professional life. This was exactly the sort of behavior that was originally problematic at the Escapist. They might have been greedy corpos, but that doesn't mean they were wrong about Nick. Frost is a real one, and if he has to resign because something is rotten with Nick then Second Wind doesn't deserve our money.

Nestor

Just want to send some positivity towards the rest of the team who has to stomach the news, excellent byte size recently, I want to compliment others but I'm to NSFW for life. Design Delve is a good series too, also can someone tell me what KC eats, this guy always cracking in any live, a stream with the Jesses Jack and KC is like a Late Show . Cheers to all. ( Ignore the haters ! Peace )

Sven F.

It's a little like watching your parents fight - I want everything that both of them are saying to be wrong and to say that everything's ok

Jared

https://x.com/TheOtherFrost/status/1819059744377606407

Avalon Hamakei

Can you provide us where to find Frost's post that this update mentions? This and seems to discuss some of the specifics of it, and I understand how it might be galling to share, but it would seem in spirit with the idea of transparency that this post mentions, and I know that I am curious and suspect others are as well.

J.S. Majer

I read over his resignation, doesnt seem terribly professional. Sounds like people didnt agree with his suggestions, he was out voted and he took that personally instead of maintaining a professional manner, bad mouthing his colleagues on the way out. I'm sure there will be people upset by his departure but I look foward to SWs continued work. The team was solid for a long time before frost, it'll be fine after.

damien glenn

His Twitter

Paige

https://x.com/TheOtherFrost/status/1819059744377606407

Avalon Hamakei

On his twitter @theotherfrost

Ivy Mike

This is deeply concerning.

Tymon Brown

I was never here for Nick, I was here for the creatives and their insights. This is incredibly worrying as a patron, for such claims to be levied. I hope this situation is rectified otherwise I will no longer be consuming your content.

Ryan Evans

you know where frost is going?

Carbon Green

Anyone know where this post of Frost's is located?

Alex

I enjoyed Frost's work and am sorry to see him go, but I still stand behind you all. Thank you for the updates and the openness on this.

Matt Couture

This is a big hit to me. On the previous channel Frost was the first person other than Yahtzee that I would watch. However, second wind has done an amazing job of putting out content worth watching. I hope all parties find the success they are looking for.

Sidney Smith

Distressing to see this level of dissatisfaction from a guy who quit his job to get this started only nine months ago. I am concerned.

Another Warren

Not stoked on all this. I'm not here for Frost or Nick, so it's really concerning to be hearing any of this at all. It's what made The Escapist a drag to associate with, and it's giving me pause about sticking around

Aaron Von Seggern

That sucks.

Brian S

He does. @TheOtherFrost on youtube.

Robert K.

It was nice having Frost’s Cold Takes, but I also agree with this team’s initiative to keep public their finances and other affairs! That level of communication and honesty seems unachievable for some, when really it should be the gold standard for all.

baronCosmos

Sad day. Does Frost have a channel of his own he'll be doing things on? I'd love to support both you and him.

Joubert Lucas

Damn.. what a bummer.

Andrew Franges

*bass drop*

lookitsaneric

Agreed, and not the case here.

Nick Calandra

One thing you really don't want to become is the next version of the company you guys quit.

Kempolar

Bummer

Dan Fox

Sorry to see Frost go, but the transparency is appreciated.

Josh Akram

Too bad about Frost. I like where you all are going.

Idnex

Man, not Frost! 😭 And right as I’m listening to noir jazz, too!

Bryant Taylor