Looking for Feedback on Livestreams
Added 2024-01-12 18:32:20 +0000 UTCLooking for some feedback today!
We're looking at how we want to structure livestreams on YouTube going forward. No decision has been made yet, so this is just a time for you to voice your feedback before we discuss in more detail next week.
Right now, the only livestreams on the main channel are for podcasts and big event streams, like our upcoming Persona stream on Sunday. The LIVE channel is used for all of our other stream series, including Yahtzee Tries, Hidden Treasures, DMC, etc etc.
We know a big issue back on The Escapist was overloading people's feed with livestreams, which we do not want to do again. And while we like having the LIVE channel separate, we also recognize we might be hurting our audience growth by not having those streams on the main channel as that's where our main audience is.
No decision is being made today on this, we're just gathering feedback.
So here's what we're discussing, and I would like your feedback on:
Do we move our livestreams back to the main channel and have them unlisted when they're done airing so that they are not in your feed, and use the LIVE channel as an archive channel for those streams so that we keep the main feed uncluttered?
This means that to watch the VOD version you would need to go the LIVE (archive) channel to watch those. The playlists would be in a section at the bottom of the main channel so you can find them easily as well, but they won't be in your feed when they are done airing to keep things uncluttered.
Comments
I've had trouble finding the livestreams when they were on a seperate channel, so I would suggest keeping them on the mothership.
Brian S
2024-09-26 17:31:26 +0000 UTCI am in the camp of Live Streams on the main channel, archived on the other channel but with another name, if changing it is possible. Instead of Second Wind Live, maybe Second Wind Archives or Second Wind Annals (because, yeah)...
Embrace_the_Jank
2024-01-15 18:35:38 +0000 UTCI was just going to comment on Youtube but came to comment here and saw this post. Could JM8 stop saying bitch please? I stopped watching streams that he is in a while a ago, I gave it another shot recently and he still says that. I have to stop watching those streams again.
Keyvan
2024-01-15 18:29:10 +0000 UTCThe suggestion of having the VOD on the live account as an archive seems like a good solution, it makes a lot more sense than having some streams on the main channel and some on the live one. Though to be honest I'm not all that picky about streams/premiers in my feed so I might not be representative.. Add-on: I like the point @Guglop makes above. The live channel hasn't grown because it's treated as ancillary. It either needs to be a whole-hog with podcasts and event streams (risky, internet news has long moved on) or relegated to an archive (definitely my vote).
Alex Morgan
2024-01-14 14:19:22 +0000 UTCI go to the main channel to look for something short that I'll pay full attention to, and I browse what's there to try new things when they show up. I go to the live channel when I need something to play in the background while I'm doing something else. If everything was in one place, it would be hard to find what I want, I'd have to rely on playlists, and then I'd miss a lot of your content.
Maciej Myczkowski
2024-01-14 13:21:28 +0000 UTCPerfect. Do this and then you can send people to Second Wind Live to check out the full Stream if they like it and discover more. The only downside is you would need people to edit the livestreams so its more work. It might be worth a trial run for a month then review if its working.
Starboard
2024-01-13 21:40:10 +0000 UTCKeep them seperate. Second Wind live for live stuff. Second Wind for edited content. They are two different things and it makes it easier for me to watch the live stuff because I just go into videos and the latest live videos is right there at the top without having to dig through. The Second Wind youtube channel is cluttered enough already.
Starboard
2024-01-13 21:31:22 +0000 UTCif you're going to have a LS channel, all the streams should be on that channel with no exceptions. If you occasionally put streams on the main channel you are saying "this video is unimportant and we don't care about it" if it is only posted to the LS channel
Guglop
2024-01-13 17:49:47 +0000 UTCI'd go as far as to keep them separated entirely, keep one channel for scripted, edited content and one for streams, events and streams of consciousness stuff.
Aquarion
2024-01-13 11:13:28 +0000 UTCyeah having livestreams happen live on the main channel and get archived on the second channel seems good, it'll be nice to go to the main channel and be able to just see if there is a livestream happening without needing to go to twitch or the secondary channel
Bark Flemmingrad
2024-01-13 10:50:55 +0000 UTCI don't often watch them live, but enjoy listening to them as a podcast, so it doesn't matter much to me where they are. If I like them, I'll tune in
Jaxorb
2024-01-13 09:54:02 +0000 UTCit's not as much problem with cluttering thier own page, as playlists and such exist. The issue (imo) is with it cluttering my sub feed, home page, and sidebar. Even worse when you use mobile.
Goblin University
2024-01-13 08:48:17 +0000 UTCI also only watch on mobile, both iPad and iPhone. The Live tab is on both.
Eric Schwenke
2024-01-13 02:26:47 +0000 UTCI wonder if co-hosting would be an option. YouTube apparently has this Go Live Together feature that allows one channel to co-host the live stream of another. The caveat is that it's currently mobile only but, if I understand it correctly, it would allow the main channel to announce and host the streams on its channel while everything is actually taking place on the Livestream channel. A desktop version is apparently in the works but no word on when it'd be released.
Mr D Sir
2024-01-13 01:18:15 +0000 UTCI don’t much care for livestreams. Keeping them separate would be my choice. I actually wish there was a way to trim down the “live” podcasts to make them easier to listen for audio listeners. You spend almost a half hour or more reading off super chats and donations that only sometimes have anything to do with the podcast topic.
Joe Donnelly
2024-01-12 23:02:16 +0000 UTCYoutube already saves livestream VODs into a separate tab from the regular video uploads so I am not certain I actually understand what the problem is here that would necessitate the existence of a separate channel if you aren't streaming somewhere else and then uploading the VODs from there onto youtube.
Toksyuryel
2024-01-12 22:58:44 +0000 UTCHow about you re-host one livestream on the main channel per week? Get channel growth, get some variety on the main channel, make people aware of other content on a regular basis. I'd suggest not archiving them, just have some samples of your good shows on the main channel with a "subscribe to second wind live for more" banner or something.
Alex
2024-01-12 22:24:14 +0000 UTCI like the way Evan and Katelyn do their channels... Full version of live on an uncut channel and an edited down, more easily consumable version on a main channel 💚
ClooneyTune
2024-01-12 22:11:13 +0000 UTCI think keeping them separate is better. Livestreams and VODs are a very different kind of content that draws a different audience. Mixing them would dilute the feed for both audiences. That said, promoting the existence of the live channel more wouldn't hurt.
Jeroen Delcour
2024-01-12 21:45:19 +0000 UTCPlease keep them separate. Even putting aside the aesthetic consideration...livestreams are kind of transitory and their value diminishes greatly once they are completed. They also don't have nearly as much replay value as actual curated, scripted videos. But as some have said, the occasional highlights reel might be appreciated. Say once a month or so.
Avalon Hamakei
2024-01-12 21:40:19 +0000 UTCI think keeping them separate is a good idea. I think the bulk of the streams should be live and full length recordings kept on the live channel, with shorter form edited / highlight versions uploaded to the main channel.
Plague_Vessel
2024-01-12 21:12:16 +0000 UTCI watch everything on delay or after it has ended. I prefer them separate. Keep plugging the Live Channel on the Main Channel. Maybe an ad spot before the Yahtzee Tries highlights would help.
Steven Simzak
2024-01-12 21:03:35 +0000 UTCI like keeping them separate, but one thing I think is a good possibility is for putting highlights on the main channel much like the Yahtzee Tries summaries. That would serve both as shorter form videos where we get to interact with more of the team (and catch up on in jokes) but also act as a draw to the live channel. Some extra editing effort but it might bring people in that might not know about the 2nd channel or what you are up to there.
Ultraczar
2024-01-12 20:49:44 +0000 UTCI think that makes sense, people can be notified but it does not cause clutter
Ken French
2024-01-12 20:49:44 +0000 UTCI’d rather the live stuff stay out of my feed completely, but it’s not a bad compromise
Michael
2024-01-12 20:38:33 +0000 UTCI like the podcasts but don’t watch live. I’m not bothered which feed stuff is on though as I always just grab individual videos for my watch later queue
Alex Lewis
2024-01-12 20:32:30 +0000 UTCI very much second @Narasan's proposal. Two other additional thoughts - rotate which show gets highlighted each month so the main channel people will get a taste of everything over time, and maybe consider editing down a long stream into something a little more bite-sized (similar to what you do with Yahtzee Tries). Obviously that's more work, and risks losing some of the energy and flow of the live shows, but it is far more likely that you'll get someone interested in trying to get into trying a 2 hour stream if they've had a 15 minute taster to see what they're missing out on.
Mick Cilantro
2024-01-12 20:24:49 +0000 UTCSound like a good solution to me!
Simon Øhlers
2024-01-12 20:17:34 +0000 UTCI am not opposed to this suggestion. I agree it’s nice to go to the channel and see all the premium video content in one place. Livestreams mixed into the list of all the other premium videos can water it down. I say this as someone who is always there for the premium videos, but don’t have have time or as much interest to watch livestreams due to work/life demands.
Kyle Vanden Eynden
2024-01-12 20:13:39 +0000 UTCKeep livestreams separate
What is Joseph
2024-01-12 20:12:10 +0000 UTCSeparating tbh. I catch them as vods regardless, but it's better for me when I'm looking for a specific video
James Bonfan
2024-01-12 20:07:56 +0000 UTCI think your idea makes sense. I mainly watch VODs and catch streams live only occasionally. So as long as I can watch a VOD, it doesn't really make a difference for me. If you think the streams can attract more people to the channel, move all the streams there. Unless you're considering having prestige streams on the main channels and some more chill stuff on the secondary one. But I'm sure it's fair to divide your crew into two categories. So I'm fine with the concept if it helps you guys. Thanks, Tommt Salty.
Tommy Salty
2024-01-12 20:07:50 +0000 UTCI always catch livestreams later... That said I prefer chunked up archives over anything else
Robert Louis Stoll
2024-01-12 20:01:50 +0000 UTCI do the audio podcasts in the car and occasionally watch VODs but never really have the time for the livestream when they are "live". I'm happy with the current setup but I don't think having more stuff in the feed is spam by any means and if it helps second wind to grow then I'm happy to be slightly inconvenienced
Adithya Kale
2024-01-12 19:53:04 +0000 UTC(Shout out to Darren and Marty for their columns.)
Gavin Thomas
2024-01-12 19:52:29 +0000 UTCSeparate channels please.
Kale Perrien
2024-01-12 19:48:21 +0000 UTCI don't mind either way. I almost exclusively watch VODs, and I tend to watch all the mainline series episodes I can find then cherrypick out of the live streams as time allows. I'm your catch-it-later viewer who isn't really in stream chats and lurks in Discord. So given that, it's all the same to me which channel the videos come from - I use the Subscriptions page of YouTube and work through the new videos there, rather than specifically navigate to one or both of the channel pages to browse categories.
Gavin Thomas
2024-01-12 19:48:00 +0000 UTCI am purely here for scripted content, however I have no strong feelings either way— live content I don't watch simply will be ignored, and if it's not there, it's not there. I wouldn't necessarily make it difficult to access (create a Playlist for it, surely), but it may look cleaner if you don't have 1 year old live content being recommended to you by way of the "Oh you REALLY like tiis, do you?!" algorithm.
Jay Hash
2024-01-12 19:45:03 +0000 UTCmoving the vods makes chat interactions and reactions disappear, idk if that is good or bad.
Peter
2024-01-12 19:44:42 +0000 UTCI rarely have time to catch the live streams so my vote would be keep them on the Live channel and keep the main channel cleaner and easier to navigate.
The Ships Cat
2024-01-12 19:42:14 +0000 UTCI’d rather keep the livestreams separated, but maybe a short monthly highlights/coming attractions video on the main channel could help growth without getting too annoying.
Tony
2024-01-12 19:34:13 +0000 UTCThis seems like a nice solution, but I'm honestly fine with whatever you choose since I'm subscribed to both channels. If you think this will help draw people to your awesome channels, I say go for it. I watch all of the live streams, but I do usually watch the VODs since I can't catch them live sometimes. It's been nice to have the separate channel so I can find the playlists MUCH easier since there is less content smooshed up on one channel. That was something that used to drive me bananas about the "old place" LOL
Splinter Fiction
2024-01-12 19:31:21 +0000 UTCI don't watch livestreams. I don't have time when I'm off work and I find them too distracting when I'm working.
Cory McLean
2024-01-12 19:27:07 +0000 UTCDon’t have time to watch livestreams, or even listen to podcasts, personally!
Bart King
2024-01-12 19:18:01 +0000 UTCBut they will be there before they air. And sometimes that could be a few days. If I was king I'd never see them. But frankly, it's not a huge deal either way.
John Enright
2024-01-12 19:14:22 +0000 UTCI never watch streams and wait for an audio only podcast. I feel like second wind already fills up my feed and wouldn't want any more
Helen
2024-01-12 19:13:48 +0000 UTCI would prefer no livestreams on the main channel. I am here for video content
Felipe Estrada
2024-01-12 19:13:07 +0000 UTCI don't care for the livestreams and would prefer them not cluttering up my subscriptions feed, but honestly it's also not that big of a deal whatever you do IMO.
Adam Rosenfield
2024-01-12 19:12:10 +0000 UTCUltimately I think it makes sense to move them also because (at least to me) the Livestreams are not Second Wind's primary feature/function. Second Wind seems to make pre-made content FIRST, and do Livestreams SECOND. Representing that with an alternate channel makes sense to me, and I don't think it will hamper your growth as much as it will help you deliver focused content to your fans that want it.
Jaron Johnson
2024-01-12 19:11:22 +0000 UTCPeople subscribe to content they engage with. If their feeds for a certain channel become content they don't engage with and/or they actively don't want to see, they unsubscribe. And you know this as well given that it was acknowledged very shortly after Second Wind was set up. A compromise was reached by keeping only the "important" streams on the main channel... and now you want to further cut back on that compromise.
blackguard
2024-01-12 19:10:55 +0000 UTCI would be in favor of separating the Livestreams - I love second wind an awful lot, and bought some of the merch as well. But even I feel like right now with Livestreams, I am being a little overloaded.
Jaron Johnson
2024-01-12 19:09:43 +0000 UTCI am a person that mostly can't watch livestreams and mostly enjoys the podcast format more (the sense that I NEED to be present watching is too stressful for me). In my case just do whatever benefits the team and the content more. Since the audience is much larger on the Main Channel this plan might be the better way to get the VODs in one place but have the streams we'll announced to everyone. I am subbed to both channels and I think most of the Patreon members are too, but for everyone else maybe the Main Channel has the traction.
José Morales
2024-01-12 19:07:41 +0000 UTCi think your idea is good,just one suggestion. after a month( or three or whatever) have a vote on which livestream the viewers most enjoyed. have the winner on the mainside as an example for people who want to try it. with links to the other live streams unobstructive somewhere
Narasan
2024-01-12 19:07:06 +0000 UTCNot true, just pointing out that having to scroll over something scheduled in your feed isn't something we can really take into account. Not cluttering your feed we agree with, and that will be solved by making them unlisted after they air.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 19:02:19 +0000 UTCPersionally like that idea. A smart way to keep livestreaming on the main channel and keeping the vods somewhere
Luis Perez
2024-01-12 19:01:18 +0000 UTCI'm not really into livestreams, timezones make it difficult even if I wanted to watch, and they are too long to catch up on later. I would prefer you go with your proposal where they get unlisted on the main and archived on the backup channel
Sean_Bahamut
2024-01-12 18:58:41 +0000 UTCThat's a pretty smart solution, as you retain enganment with the main channel going live still but don't clutter up feeds with 2h vods. It's certainly annoying having to search for unlisted videos, so make sure to put in a bunch of the good key words on the vods on the live channel, as people do search for playthroughs of games for all sorts of reasons
Damwolf
2024-01-12 18:57:53 +0000 UTCThank you for calling my feedback goofy. Going by your responses to other pieces of feedback under this topic, it seems like you're just looking to validate a decision you've already made.
blackguard
2024-01-12 18:56:55 +0000 UTCI almost never have time to watch the streams, so they just clutter up my feed. I love the highlights though! The Upcoming items are especially annoying, because when I'm going to YouTube I want to watch something, not check a calendar. I'd be happy if all of the live content moved to the second channel.
Zncon
2024-01-12 18:56:52 +0000 UTCThere's also a tick box to not notify subscribers, so that way it will only be seen in recommended tabs and the home screen. But I can see why you wouldn't want to do that.
Matt J
2024-01-12 18:56:13 +0000 UTCMy feed is already overloaded with Second Wind content. Please do not add livestreams to the main channel. And while we're at it, please stop pre-listing "scheduled" videos. That is also creating clutter.
Dave
2024-01-12 18:55:46 +0000 UTCEither way is fine for me since I'm subscribed to both. I don't even know which one they are in since they show up on my feed regardless.
Nyx
2024-01-12 18:55:06 +0000 UTCI always watch/listen to the livestreams as VoD because I can't usually watch during the stream. That said, I'm good with the gaming streams being on the Live channel and podcasts on the main channel.
GayBearDaddy2
2024-01-12 18:55:00 +0000 UTCBeing annoyed by scrolling over a scheduled or livestream is kinda goofy. That's like being annoyed scrolling through a TV guide that the scheduled show isn't live yet haha. After they air they will be unlisted, so they won't be in your feed either way.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:54:16 +0000 UTCYeah, I'm not a huge live stream/podcast person. I do watch the LTT WAN show, but I make heavy use of the chapters so I can skip around. I typically only watch maybe a quarter of their live shows. So far, none of the Second Wind stream vods have added chapters and their conversations tend to wander heavily, so it's basically impossible to go in for what I find interesting. I do enjoy the edited Yahtzee Tries though. It cuts out the usual live stream fluff and provides chapters for jumping around.
Jacob Craig
2024-01-12 18:54:11 +0000 UTCAs someone who likes the live streams and catches the one I miss on VOD, as long as the VODs are still going up (as the proposed change does) then I'm happy :)
DarwinsDummy
2024-01-12 18:53:43 +0000 UTCI also enjoy the highlights videos, in particular I would really like highlight videos of the main event streams for instance game awards and Xbox direct etc as mostly i don't want to watch a 4 hour stream but would like the news and reactions from you guys out of those events, thank you x
Damwolf
2024-01-12 18:53:06 +0000 UTCI watch all streams, but mostly not live. I like that I have a dedicated channel for the streams.
Grey 0815
2024-01-12 18:51:03 +0000 UTCAgreed. It's not a huge deal to me to ignore the livestreams, but I do find myself frequently getting excited that there's a new SW video, and then immediately disappointed that it's a livestream. ;)
dirtside
2024-01-12 18:50:53 +0000 UTCVery hard to keep trying to promote multiple channels that people have to jump around to. Even if you don't watch the livestreams, they won't clutter your feed when they're unlisted after they air.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:49:14 +0000 UTCI'm a fan of how you've got it set up currently. I like having the main channel clean and crisp even though I watch most of the VODs of the streams. I never seem to be able to watch them live no matter the time, my schedule is too all over the place.
Mellow Magog
2024-01-12 18:49:09 +0000 UTCI can't speak for what most people like but I don't watch live streams whatsoever only ever highlights
Anthony White
2024-01-12 18:48:21 +0000 UTCYes, they will be in categorized playlists that you can find on the channel, with the videos in there even if they're unlisted. They just won't be in your subscriber / home feed after they air.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:47:42 +0000 UTCI'm really not a livestream person, so having them on a designated streaming channel is better for my own experience. If I ever want to check them out I know where to find them! I really like the stream highlights of the Yahtzee Plays vids on the main channel. No one asked, but I really like stream highlight videos because its nice to feel included even when I don't have the time/attention span for long livestreams
ixi
2024-01-12 18:46:56 +0000 UTCAs stated, they won't clutter your feed. They'll be unlisted after they air.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:46:49 +0000 UTCThey will not be in your sub feed except for when they're scheduled and live, and then after that the VOD is unlisted and won't be in your feed.
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:46:27 +0000 UTCI'd keep the split, maybe run the occasional ad or shoutout for the live channel on your main channel vids like you do with the merch ones, or bake a note into the credits about it? The only points the live channel gets mentioned on the main channel is pretty much the end of podcasts (the audience for those probably already fairly heavily overlaps your livestream audience anyway) and community posts, so something baked into the produced vids might help too. Also, minor thing - Yahtzee Tries. Suggest calling the livestream "Yahtzee Tries Live" or something to differentiate from the edited vids? The differentiator was supposed to be that all the live ones were just on the live channel and all the edited ones were just on the main channel, but there's already a few outliers that might be confusing to people.
Kai
2024-01-12 18:46:04 +0000 UTCProposed solution sounds great, also simplifies the whole thing about which channel to get the paid sub/green gang too
BiscuitsAndBBQ
2024-01-12 18:45:45 +0000 UTCI’m really just never going to casually watch a YouTube livestream. It’s a bad platform fit. Livestreams cluttering up my YouTube subscriptions is frustrating in all scenarios. I come in for a big event now and again, but if I’m going to make a habit of watching streams it would need to be twitch.
btmp
2024-01-12 18:45:26 +0000 UTCI don't care about livestreams. I watch the edited version of Yahtzee Tries, but have no interest in the long form versions. So anything which moves them out of the main view entirely is good for me.
Andrew Ducker
2024-01-12 18:45:07 +0000 UTCI agree with this. Also just adding my thought that for live streams go for quality over quantity. You don't want that experience to get watered down
David Johnson
2024-01-12 18:44:07 +0000 UTCI *only* ever watch pre-written, condensed, edited content, the kind that takes 6 days to produce 6 minutes. That means no streams, no podcasts. I would personally be happy if all streams (and even podcasts!) were to live in another channel.
van_Zeller
2024-01-12 18:43:42 +0000 UTCOh, I see. That sounds like a good solution from this viewer's perspective, then!
dlgn13
2024-01-12 18:43:34 +0000 UTCIf they are unlisted on the main channel would it possible to view them if we search for them? Just as a way to preserve the chat. Otherwise I think having the live channel be an archive of streams almost makes too much sense. Like there must have been a reason you guys didn't do it kind of sense :).
Lucas Roote
2024-01-12 18:43:18 +0000 UTCId like them in my feed. Don’t care via which channel, really
Tim
2024-01-12 18:43:17 +0000 UTCYou would see them in the playlists on the page!
Nick Calandra
2024-01-12 18:42:27 +0000 UTCImho, it’s too soon to move the content around multiple channels. Keep growing your content on the second wind channel and set a milestone in terms of subscribers before creating a new dedicated channel. Your goal is to- I assume - getting enough subscribers (and then potential Patreon subscribers) asap. Those who already follow you won’t stop just because the live video also appear on their feed, while the live videos cater to audiences interested in that content. If you make a dedicated channel right now, I would expect it to be a graveyard where only a tiny fraction of new viewers will go. But then again, the algorithm is a damn bitch that does whatever the fuck it wants and my god, I know that, so for all we know this hypothetical second channel might be pushed like crazy
Roboknob
2024-01-12 18:41:15 +0000 UTCSince they'd be cluttering my subscription feed while they're being scheduled and live, I don't think this would resolve anything other than the backlog clutter. Annoyance would still be there for me unfortunately. Please don't move more streams to the main channel, it's annoying as it is.
blackguard
2024-01-12 18:40:37 +0000 UTCFWIW, I have little interest in the livestreams. I'd rather keep the status quo so they never clutter up the main feed.
John Enright
2024-01-12 18:40:31 +0000 UTCThat seems like a reasonable approach, but the bigger question fundamentally is how much overlap _is_ there in practice between the two audiences? Because that bit of data is what I think needs to inform the decision.
Marc-André Pelletier
2024-01-12 18:40:23 +0000 UTCThis sounds aggressively sensible.
Jack Dawson
2024-01-12 18:39:53 +0000 UTCIt would be a shame to have the original videos unlisted, because (if I'm not mistaken) viewers of the reuploads would not be able to see the live chat replay.
dlgn13
2024-01-12 18:39:51 +0000 UTCDo what's best for the business. Either way doesn't bother me.
Daniel Rumbold
2024-01-12 18:39:33 +0000 UTCI don't mind getting a notification for them, since I'm more of a fan of "friends playing a fun game together" livestreams. So, I'm fine with livestreams remaining listed on the main channel. However, if you feel your audience may prefer the way you suggested, that's fine with me (I would just need a link to the archival channel).
MB-1337
2024-01-12 18:39:12 +0000 UTCThe proposed solution sounds like a good balance
Dirk Wood
2024-01-12 18:38:46 +0000 UTCThis solution sounds perfect to me.
Eoal
2024-01-12 18:38:36 +0000 UTC
